Should we stop develop for symbian? [Archive]

21-01-2003, 04:40 AM

I found a site with the cracked software listed below.
Psiloc,Symbianware,Epocware,Ximplify,Cibenix & others.
Should we stop develop for symbian?
Just let other to develop freeware or we provide freeware as well?

Active Desk 1.51 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Active Mail 1.10 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Answering Machine 1.0 (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
AppMan 1.03 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
AutoStart 1.02 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Bemused 1.3 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
BugMe (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Camera FX 1.1 (with key) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Camera Timer (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Digia ImagePlus (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Digia ImageSpy (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Doris Browser (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Doris Web Browser 1.10 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Email Viewer 1.21 (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Email Viewer 1.01 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Extended File Manager 1.20 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Extended File Manager 1.29B () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Extended Nokia Suite deutsch (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Extended Profiles Pro 1.40 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Extended Profiles Pro 1.50 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Extended Suite 1.0 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
FExplore 1.06 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
FExplorer (german) 1.06 () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
FileOp 0.2 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
FileSend 1.01 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Finanz 1.01 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Forward (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
FotoFunPack (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
FotoFunPack Halloween (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Goboy 1.1 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Book () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Car 1.50 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Car deutsch (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Clock 2.00 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Day (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy File (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy PhotoSafe 1.0 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy reminder (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Safe 2.00 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Safe deutsch (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Shopper (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Shopper deutsch (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Hnady Expense 1.70 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Horoscope (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
IM Plus 1.02 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
IM Plus 2.14 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
JoyCalc 1.01 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
JTask (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Keylock (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Memory Monitor (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Message Saver 1.1 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
MiniBoard 1.0 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
miniGPS 0.85B (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
miniGPS 0.95B (trial) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
MircroCalc (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Mobiclip Player (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Mobile Girl (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Mp3Go (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
MP3Go 2.02 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
MultiMedia Player 0.90 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
NameSwap (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Net Monitor (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
nICQ (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Oplayer 1.01 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Palette Extender (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Palette Extender 1.01 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Pallete Extender Beta (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Periodic Table (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Photo Editor 1.01 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Photoeditor () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Photographer 1.0 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Pocket Counter (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Pocket Nancy (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
QImaging 1.00 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
RealOne Player (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
RemindMe (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
RemindMe 1.11 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Ringtone Studio (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Ringtone Studio 1.1 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Screen Saver 1.15 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
ScreenTaker (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Seleq 1.5i (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Send Fax (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Smart Answer 1.02 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Smart Answer 1.03 (trial) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Smart Answer 1.03 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Smart Crypto 1.0 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Smart Viewer (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Smartphone Teletext 1.30 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Soft Keypad 1.13 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Space Doubler 1.10 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Space Doubler 1.20 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Space Doubler 1.27B (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Space Doubler 1.21 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Space Doubler 1.26B (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Space Doubler 1.30 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Stacker 2.05 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Switcher 1.4 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
System Tools 1.31 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
T-Mobile Video 2.01 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Task Manager 1.12 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
TipicMe 1.1 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Torch (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Translator () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Ulead Photo Express () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Video MMS 1.010 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Web Viewer 2.0 (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Webviewer 1.8.5 (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
WirelessIRC 1.52 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
World Clock 1.21 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
World Clock Pro 1.21 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Ximplify myShopping 1.0 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Ximplify RemindMe! 1.01 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
yFTP 1.1 (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Zenomorph () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
ZipMan 1.2 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
ZipMan 1.3 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]

21-01-2003, 04:55 AM

We spent so many effort to find a way to check the registration & end up increasing the size of the program which is not welcome by the end user.
but what can we do?
:cry:

MaleBuffy

21-01-2003, 04:57 AM

This is very sad and thats why we at AAS are against warez. Although I understand your viewpoint, I cannot agree with it! Its like saying that Symantec will stop developing Norton Utilities just because people are using illegal copies of it. They dont. This should never be a reason for anybody to stop. The best thing you can do is report these websites to the hosting companies or ISP. We are doing our best to keep the Symbian community warez free...at least this one!

Good luck with whatever path you chose to take!

MaleBuffy

MaleBuffy

21-01-2003, 05:04 AM

21-01-2003, 05:11 AM

So means that if I have 1000 buyer before.
I have to compile 1000 times if there is any update version? :o
!!!!!!Oh my. :angel:

MaleBuffy

21-01-2003, 05:19 AM

Yes..... :) However, this will be more work ONLY for the old customers. The new ones you have to run though the key generator anyways, which is basically the same as compiling. For the updates you can release instead of full program updates a kind of patch .... that will just add additional functionality just like an update software for windows. This will work by puting the IMEI check in places like the start the exit and other parts that will not be updated.

Again this might be too much so sorry if this is out of this world. :)

21-01-2003, 06:26 AM

To me it is fine but it is unfair to those who bought our software.
They support us & willing to bought our software.
If we simply allow other user who use those cracked copied , I thinked we have to refund back to those who bought.

I am going to hard code all the IMEI inside our application & I don't mind to rebuild each copy for our customer.

It will result in smaller version of the software but they may need to download twist for a demo & full version.

It is still possible to be cracked for a hard coded version but I will find a solution on it.

Thanks MaleBuffy

Ewan

21-01-2003, 07:54 AM

Unfortunatly piracy is an ever present threat to ANY software system. Given that SYmbian is geared at smartphones, there are going to be a lto more people who are going to use the "I bought this, I won't buy any more" arguement.

I agree with MaleBuffy, registration needs to be tied into IMEI. Your aim is to stop the 'wannabee' hacker who just wants to get out paying a small fee.

But you'll get IMEI crackers coming out soon after your app launches. Heck, Windows XP had keygens in hours! It's a pity the pool of people buying on Symbian isn't large enough yet that you can ignore the hackers - do what yu can and realise 5% will always get away with it. :-(

seanmiguel

21-01-2003, 08:53 AM

i dont know what to say. i just feel sad that because of all these, developers are starting to feel this way. :cry:

GhostDog

21-01-2003, 09:01 AM

I totally agree with Ewan,IMEI crackers will start doing their thing in no time.
A just want to say that there are a lot of people who are willing to pay for good products even though they can fine cracked version of the software on the net.
One good side about the Symbian platform is that apps are fairly priced so i would definitely preffer the genuine thing for a reasonable amount then some tampered version of the app the can even do some damage.

Edgedale

21-01-2003, 09:24 AM

:o :o :o :-? :-? :( :( :o :o :o

I am speechless.....

I found a site with the cracked software listed below.
Psiloc,Symbianware,Epocware,Ximplify,Cibenix & others.
Should we stop develop for symbian?
Just let other to develop freeware or we provide freeware as well?

Active Desk 1.51 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Active Mail 1.10 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Answering Machine 1.0 (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
AppMan 1.03 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
AutoStart 1.02 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Bemused 1.3 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
BugMe (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Camera FX 1.1 (with key) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Camera Timer (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Digia ImagePlus (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Digia ImageSpy (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Doris Browser (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Doris Web Browser 1.10 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Email Viewer 1.21 (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Email Viewer 1.01 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Extended File Manager 1.20 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Extended File Manager 1.29B () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Extended Nokia Suite deutsch (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Extended Profiles Pro 1.40 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Extended Profiles Pro 1.50 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Extended Suite 1.0 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
FExplore 1.06 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
FExplorer (german) 1.06 () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
FileOp 0.2 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
FileSend 1.01 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Finanz 1.01 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Forward (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
FotoFunPack (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
FotoFunPack Halloween (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Goboy 1.1 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Book () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Car 1.50 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Car deutsch (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Clock 2.00 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Day (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy File (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy PhotoSafe 1.0 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy reminder (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Safe 2.00 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Safe deutsch (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Shopper (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Handy Shopper deutsch (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Hnady Expense 1.70 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Horoscope (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
IM Plus 1.02 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
IM Plus 2.14 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
JoyCalc 1.01 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
JTask (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Keylock (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Memory Monitor (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Message Saver 1.1 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
MiniBoard 1.0 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
miniGPS 0.85B (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
miniGPS 0.95B (trial) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
MircroCalc (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Mobiclip Player (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Mobile Girl (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Mp3Go (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
MP3Go 2.02 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
MultiMedia Player 0.90 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
NameSwap (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Net Monitor (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
nICQ (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Oplayer 1.01 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Palette Extender (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Palette Extender 1.01 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Pallete Extender Beta (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Periodic Table (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Photo Editor 1.01 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Photoeditor () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Photographer 1.0 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Pocket Counter (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Pocket Nancy (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
QImaging 1.00 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
RealOne Player (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
RemindMe (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
RemindMe 1.11 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Ringtone Studio (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Ringtone Studio 1.1 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Screen Saver 1.15 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
ScreenTaker (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Seleq 1.5i (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Send Fax (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Smart Answer 1.02 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Smart Answer 1.03 (trial) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Smart Answer 1.03 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Smart Crypto 1.0 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Smart Viewer (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Smartphone Teletext 1.30 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Soft Keypad 1.13 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Space Doubler 1.10 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Space Doubler 1.20 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Space Doubler 1.27B (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Space Doubler 1.21 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Space Doubler 1.26B (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Space Doubler 1.30 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Stacker 2.05 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Switcher 1.4 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
System Tools 1.31 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
T-Mobile Video 2.01 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Task Manager 1.12 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
TipicMe 1.1 (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Torch (freeware) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Translator () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Ulead Photo Express () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Video MMS 1.010 (cracked) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Web Viewer 2.0 (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Webviewer 1.8.5 (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
WirelessIRC 1.52 (full) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
World Clock 1.21 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
World Clock Pro 1.21 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Ximplify myShopping 1.0 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Ximplify RemindMe! 1.01 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
yFTP 1.1 (demo) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
Zenomorph () [ View Info ] [ Download ]
ZipMan 1.2 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]
ZipMan 1.3 (with keygen) [ View Info ] [ Download ]

21-01-2003, 09:30 AM

Great discussion here. I think from a technical point of view it is almost impossible to find a 100% protection against cracking, patching or reverse translation. This is why I stopped to include any IMEI or whatsoever checks in my shareware programs. At the same time I am aware that my client community is much smaller than those of PsiLoc, Ximplify and so on.

From a customer point of view, I am more than willing to pay for good(!!) software, even if I can get the full version easily from the Net for free. Why? Just one example: I recently had a weird problem with sDoubler, my favourite program for the 7650. I contacted PsiLoc at 9:22 describing my problem. Got a confirmation that they work on my problem 09:28. Received a fixed version at 9:47. Isn't that worth 10$?

I guess all other Symbian developers I purchased software from would support me in a similar way.

I am afraid we just have to hope and trust that ethics and morale can be kept on a similar level as it was with the Psion community, where Symbian actually came out. Although reverse engineering was a piece of cake for OPL and Symbian programs for the PSION you could hardly find warez sites on the net (I am just aware of one single site after almost 10 years).

This is why I like forums like AAS and all mods here are doing a great job. (Yes, I know I am still not registered :oops: ).

MemphisX

21-01-2003, 09:36 AM

Let's put it more simple.

WOULD YOU STOP MAKING SEX BECAUSE THERE IS AIDS OUT THERE?

Edgedale

21-01-2003, 09:41 AM

;) That's a good one... hahahahaha

Let's put it more simple.

WOULD YOU STOP MAKING SEX BECAUSE THERE IS AIDS OUT THERE?

GhostDog

21-01-2003, 09:45 AM

Let's put it more simple.

WOULD YOU STOP MAKING SEX BECAUSE THERE IS AIDS OUT THERE?

Excelent way to end this rich disussion!! :D

21-01-2003, 10:09 AM

We spent so many effort to find a way to check the registration & end up increasing the size of the program which is not welcome by the end user.
but what can we do?
:cry:

I am afraid that there is not much to do! However, I had an idea that might work. When I bought SeleQ for example, I was asked for my IMEI in order to register the software. I received a code that was unique for my phone etc.

My idea is since compiling an application does not take more than running a IMEI through the key generator, why dont you instead of using a reg code, just compile every application to be able to work with just the IMEI. For example, in the source put (very simplified version):

If (IMEI=45450983450053) then execute program;

and compile each application with the customers IMEI. Now this does not take much space and you can put it in your code several times so that it will be a pain in the arse for a cracker to bother!

Well its just an idea!

Here's a possible idea... how about the program sends a message (SMS/EMAIL) containing the IMEI of the phone the program is installed on, or calls a number and sends the DTMF tones that represent their IMEI? This way, the developers could have a list of IMEIs matched with Product Keys for their software... (you know where this idea is going!)... if the dev'er checks for duplicate IMEIs, he can tell which instance of the program was leaked to warez sites, and possibly which customer leaked it. Yeah, they'd be able to use the software, but you would have evidence that is usable in court that someone has installed your software on to their phone without buying it.

As an extension to MaleBuffy's idea, I think the preprocessor in most c++ IDEs can handle the recompiling problem. Say (for example) you're running a Microsoft web server. You install VC++ on this machine, and you can then automate the compiling of software by coding your webpages in ASP. Your webpage for taking orders could then call the VC++ IDE, and compile a version of the program on the fly. Using the preprocessor, you include a text file which contains a null IMEI number in Muffy's statement (if imei=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx then ...) in your source code. When you take an order, you replace the null IMEI with the IMEI of the current customer, and then call the compiler. The newly-generated program would then be specifically for use with this IMEI, and could then be emailed to the customer. They wouldn't even notice the time delay!

OK, this could be taken apart by someone with enough knowledge to get around a hex editor, but what can't?

PSiLoc and others... I expect some free software if you like my idea! ;-)

Spikey

cmatthee

21-01-2003, 10:23 AM

21-01-2003, 10:35 AM

I am saddend by this terrible news! The above post- Thats boardering on spyware, I wouldn't buy it cause i dont want aps that take liberties and do what the hell they like [IE dial phone numbers, send texts etc...] an app should ONLY do what its designed todo... Plus all this ads on extra space! Does anyone know why SeleQ is so HUGE?

Zipper

21-01-2003, 10:40 AM

Oops - I posted anon again!

faquick

21-01-2003, 10:54 AM

yes, this is the same olde problem!

:cry:

anyway, MaleBuffy, I sincerely think your idea is not only difficult to apply, but quite useless.

let me explain: if somebody already makes "cracked" applications that run without reg.code, how much time do you think they need to crack an app that checks for IMEI code? they could probably do it in the same or even less time

I'm not saying there is no cure, but I think that we should just find better ways to "fight" piracy

the big problem anyway is not the existance of "key generators" or "cracked apps", since I read about them a couple of months ago... the biggest problem is how EASY is to find them right now... we could help having some stupid people close their sites... like microsoft does

I think our community here at AAS (and others as well) is doing a lot to help, we all are supporting you, symbian developers... so please don't give up ;)

simeonbubblegum

21-01-2003, 12:38 PM

let me explain: if somebody already makes "cracked" applications that run without reg.code, how much time do you think they need to crack an app that checks for IMEI code?

I'm very worried about that huge list of cracked software, especially when I found one of my own applications there. I'm also very worried about the fact how easy it is to find these warez sites (took me only couple of hours to find that site).

How can we defend our software against those crackers? Of course the registration based on IMEI number protects from using same software on multiple phones with one unlock code. But those crackers seem found out how to pass the registration check in the application. They obviously know assembly code and can patch the app file with only few bytes.

We developers should be more clever with our registration systems. Just one check in one place of the application is not enough. Perhaps we should count the checksum of the executable file itself to protect against tampering.

Do you know better ideas?

21-01-2003, 12:42 PM

Here's a possible idea... how about the program sends a message (SMS/EMAIL) containing the IMEI of the phone the program is installed on, or calls a number and sends the DTMF tones that represent their IMEI?
This is a very good way to get yourself in jail. You may not do something like that without the permission of the phone owner. If you do something that will cost money to the user, then you must warn then before doing it.

No offence, but I personally thought that was too obvious to bother stating. Any big company who creates software probably wouldn't risk something like that. I say probably... look at XPs "phone home" feature!

Zipper: It's not spyware if it tells you exactly what it's going to do, when it's going to do it and why. If you knew this method worked (which it probably won't cos cracking software is so damn easy), wouldn't you be happy to pay for a single text message or 3-second call (the cost of which could be covered by the developer)?

faquick:

You're totally right... it's too easy to crack software! But hopefully a measure like this would stop the script kiddiez who rely on others to crack software, then just download it off of the web. Nothing will stop someone who is determined to crack your software, but you can stop it from being a case of simply downloading and running it!

Unfortunately, there is no foolproof way to beat software piracy. But people really need to think about this... with the current capitalist governments and corporations defining how ideas are shaped now, the Orwellian method I proposed is quite possibly the way some companies will go in future. Locking the product down to the individual customer seems to Big Brother-ish for now, but with Bush's HSA, civil liberties are getting smaller and smaller...

Paranoia? Probably! Taking the piss out of the people who are going to take this seriously.... hell yeah! ;-0

21-01-2003, 12:50 PM

let me explain: if somebody already makes "cracked" applications that run without reg.code, how much time do you think they need to crack an app that checks for IMEI code?

We developers should be more clever with our registration systems. Just one check in one place of the application is not enough. Perhaps we should count the checksum of the executable file itself to protect against tampering.

Do you know better ideas?

How about an app that checks for the imei in a few different places, and also computes a checksum to check itself each time it's run? if the checksum is invalid, the file has been edited, the software is cracked. again, still not foolproof, but slightly better!

Biermann

21-01-2003, 02:04 PM

I think that this discussion is useless. You can never be smarter than people who are cracking software. Look at PC market. You will find every product on warez sites and ftps one day after release (and sometimes quicker). Why do you think, that you can do something against it on symbian, if PC developers were unable to do something for very long years? Warez was, warez is and warez will be. Adding control anti-piracy mechanisms is useless and just increasing app size and bother users.

Ewan

21-01-2003, 02:14 PM

This is alovelye example of the 80/20 rule. Where 80% of the app is coded in 20% of the time, and the last 805% of the time focuss on the last 20%.

Perhaps it might be better to sacrifice the 5% of warez users,and spend that time coding another application that the honest people will register, bringing in more money than just one 'locked dwon; app you have two 'secure against script kiddies' apps.

Any shareware developers care to pitch in and comment?

Merlin

21-01-2003, 03:08 PM

I work as a developer in the video games industry where warez is a huge problem - even to the extent where a game can be on a warez site before it has even been officially released on the market.

There's really no software / hardware that can't be cracked, patched or worked around in one way or another. In this industry, when a game is released, the main financial return and profit is only expected in the first month or two and it is hoped that enough people will buy it before a cracked copy is released.

In the case of Symbian developers, I think you can do one or more of the following: -

a) Make your applications as good and useful as possible in order to attract enough legitimate sales to make the development worth while.

b) Apply some form of protection in order to increase the time it takes to be hacked, thus encouraging more sales from people who really want your new program and can't wait for it to be available on warez sites

c) (And most already do this) Ensure your program is reasonably priced for what it does.

d) Provide excellent customer service (e.g. Ximplify!).

e) Give up and leave development to someone who can bothered!

eidrian

21-01-2003, 03:16 PM

Perhaps it might be better to sacrifice the 5% of warez users,and spend that time coding another application that the honest people will register, bringing in more money than just one 'locked dwon; app you have two 'secure against script kiddies' apps.

I tend to agree with this idea. I don't think the warez phenomen will put in danger serious companies or developers, that make good applications.

On the other hand, I think warez applications are much more popular than the other strongly protected, and this means that those will sell better, even if some user have them for free. I have many coleagues which buy applications through operator advertisment and wap, and don't bother to search for warez apps on the internet. And warez users cannot be convinced to buy an app just because cannot be found as warez. They will rather wait for another similar app that will have this possibility. One good example is with MTIT Answering machine that appeared long time ago but wasn't cracked, so nobody was discussing about it, until new similar cracked applications appeared :) Now you can see a lot of discussions about answering machines... not that all that users are using warez, of course.

Chaos

21-01-2003, 05:50 PM

Sad situation. Let's put it this way...I was aware of that site long ago, and all the apps there. But I have still bought all the software I use on my phone.
Yes, many will use the cracked stuff. I think that 90% of them would never have bought it anyways.
There are only a few facts here:
You can't make anything uncrackable
You can't shut down the sites, they just go deeper underground (Know your enemy?)
If you don't release stuff..someone else will.
Your stuff is appreciated, and bought by many of us that appreciate the time and effort behind it.
If you keep the apps affordable like they are now, many of use will support you as you support us.
This is a bad situation, but it is a fact of life and the internet. Has always been here, always will be here. Not just a Symbian thing obviously. You can program for some other system, but that will be cracked too. You wanna rather become motor mechanics?
Sometimes you can even benefit. Many ppl use the cracked versions to see if they are worth the money..and then buy it. Sounds like bull...but it's true. You think ppl wanna keep waiting for the updates to be cracked too?

Btw..one way to fight back is to code big errors into certain versions that are only released deliberately to the cracking scene. When ppl stop trusting the cracked versions, they are less likely to install them. Harsh..but one idea that has worked before. Just have to know nothing about the critically bugged version of course :)

Afraid there is no solution..just good service that keeps loyal ppl buying your software. This also means your app has to be good. Most are, but there are games/apps that should never bothered to have been released, and make ppl wonder why they spend money on programs. Luckily...none of them are represented on this board, and I say thanks to all you developers here who have made these phones so popular. Nokia/SE owes you a big thanks too.

Stezos

21-01-2003, 06:10 PM

Chaos what you just said in the last post was perfect, I couldnt have said it better myself. Apart from this comment

"Btw..one way to fight back is to code big errors into certain versions that are only released deliberately to the cracking scene. When ppl stop trusting the cracked versions, they are less likely to install them. Harsh..but one idea that has worked before. Just have to know nothing about the critically bugged version of course"

If you are refering to a Palm developer and a gameboy emulator app then releasing that "virus" disguised as a crack whas a HUGE mistake on his part as once it became common knowledge that he created it and released it ligitimate customers stopped trusting him. But at least he had the decency to admit it was him and didnt in anyway try to cover it up.

Stezos

netzmeista

21-01-2003, 11:08 PM

This remembered me of a nice story I stumbled across at a palm warez board. Someone was offering a commercial levelpack for Lemmings for PalmOS. The programmer, Ardiri if I remember correctly, appeared few hours later on the board and posted detailed personnel data of the cracker like name, adress, creditcard-number. I'm not sure how exactly this worked out, but afaik Ardiri-software is only available from their own site and everytime someone purchases software the registration info of that person is linked to the compiled copy of that software (I suppose it's compiled serversided dynamically) so it's simple to track the cracker. And believe me, that cracker really pissed his panties. I suppose that something like that can be disabled by good backward processing, but it shows that you can decrease harm with some good ideas.

BTW: The programmer mentioned above was afaik also Ardiri, but that trick didn't turn out that good...

Hera

22-01-2003, 12:55 AM

Here are some comments from the developers

1. There's no sense to make serious protection, it'll slightly increase the time spent on its hacking and that's it. But the program will become worse. To check the control sum? But the program still has this condition which can be changed if you know ASM. Any serious protection will increase the program's size and make it slower, so the best way (our opinion) is to protect the program from copying it and Hex editing.

2. I do not believe that a person having a warez copy will buy the original
(95% at least) though we have rather moderate prices despite the fact that developing applications takes much time and efforts.

3. Warez is not a very serious problem for big companies. If we have more than 30 applications developed and have resources to develop 2-4 more applications every month then warez will not kill us though it causes problems. Moreover it can be considered as a kind of advertisement (very specific though :) ). It means that the product became popular, this, of course, advertises the company name and other products but within REASONABLE limits!
I mean that reading posts on one rather famous though very shady forum (some of you know what forum I'm talking about) like 'come on, i've opened new site accepting warez' or 'haha, what those developers can do to me, shut my mouth?' etc, well, reading such kind of posts doesn't inspire our developers on creating new products and me on working 7 days a week in support. I like my job, but such things really upset.

Besides Symbian OS market is too small now especially comparing to that for PC and too active warez policy will just kill small developing companies and freelancers having 1-2 applications and trying to live on it. I think that all of us understand that the stronger the competition is the better the applications are.

4. Last but not least. We do not have anything against those people cracking our programs, one has to have a special knowledge for this so there are not many of them. Of course the fact that someone cracks our applications doesn't make us happy but we understand these people at least they have knowledge. Usually hackers crack applications for their own use and do not have much in common with distributors - ppl thinking they're heroes bringing cracked applications to public, considering themselves much cleverer than they are :) One doesn't need any special education to make a site and upload there an application(s).
These guys receive hundred thanks per day for bringing an application, for good work, etc, and it becomes a kind of narcotic for them. Being unable to self-actualize themselves in real world they're trying to find easy ways. This sort of people deserve pity only.

MemphisX

22-01-2003, 08:16 AM

(A little bit offtopic).Hera, you look very beautifull in that photo.

Do you have any higher resolution photo to stare at?
(Just, joking about the last part-only the last part!-But it wouldn't be bad to post one, would be?)

omar_g

22-01-2003, 10:09 AM

I know this thread is on it last legs but i'd just like to offer a quick/cheap way of slowing warez:

Release demo versions which do not contain the whole program. The full version has to be downloaded after purchasing (IE: Handango.com) once this has been done a key must be given by the software developer to unlock the program.

People who have paid for the full price software are unlikely to give it to warez sites to hack it to bits. By the time a hacker does get hold of it, the likelyhood is that you have a newer version out, which uses a new algorithm, meaning the process begins again.

Current users are on a mailing list which includes to new passcode for all of them.

Simple as! It's cheap, not much more work than the current system, and stands a very good chance of slowing hackers to such a pace that their work becomes almost insignificant in terms of lost sales.

:D

Biermann

22-01-2003, 11:39 AM

People who have paid for the full price software are unlikely to give it to warez sites to hack it to bits. By the time a hacker does get hold of it, the likelyhood is that you have a newer version out, which uses a new algorithm, meaning the process begins again.

Current users are on a mailing list which includes to new passcode for all of them.

I don't think that people from hacking scene haven't money and so they are cracking software. They are doing it for fun. They want to show that they can break security. So it isn't problem for them to buy one copy and then hack it.

You often see in .nfo files on PC message from hackers, that if you like that software, you should buy it.

Zeus

22-01-2003, 12:18 PM

GhostDog

22-01-2003, 12:22 PM

Hera...Zeus,i think something fishy is going on in SymbianWare headquarters :D

petran

22-01-2003, 12:30 PM

In real life she is much more better than on photos ;)Where did you say can we submit our CVs ?? :D

Hera

22-01-2003, 01:00 PM

Hi guys,

Maybe I'll be off topic somehow but let me please say something, too :P :D

Release demo versions which do not contain the whole program. The full
version has to be downloaded after purchasing (IE: Handango.com) once
this has been done a key must be given by the software developer to unlock
the program.

1. We have tried this before. It gives more protection but it still doesn't help and doesn't stop warez (only some days maximum)

2. We don't leave our programs after releasing them and improve them time after time. With this registration engine it becomes a real headache for us and our customers. As for shareware version, a user can simply download a newer version from website, and install it over the previous one.

3. As for limitations in trial versions: there are no limitations in our trial versions except time only. We want a user to try the program in full mode before buying it, in this case he knows what he buys and there won't be any disappointment. We don't need it, it's better not to have a customer at all than get the unsatisfied one. We are not going to leave the market and must think about satisfying users first. If it costs us appearing on warez websites only - no problem, we'll survive :)

crypto

22-01-2003, 02:19 PM

I really feel the anguish you developers have, as I for one am a programmer and would not want my work being reverse-engineered or tampered with.

Just a hypotetical suggestion, what if programs come like in C source code then they really have to register and buy it and get the header with a unique code for every IMEI basis then compile the program, or better yet establish a partnership with Nokia to get their hard coded serials in the processor of the phone and that would be the basis.

You register the phone based on the IMEI, Nokia releases the hard coded serial from the processor and then the developer adds that to the source code before compiling say act as a password or the program searches for that hard code and if it does not match it won't execute "looks to me a simple IF statement could catch that", once compiled the source code automatically gets deleted (plus a hard disk scan, for any back-up copy) or am I being so naive. IMO only.

That's all

Zipper

22-01-2003, 02:21 PM

Hi guys,

Maybe I'll be off topic somehow but let me please say something, too :P :D

3. As for limitations in trial versions: there are no limitations in our trial versions except time only. We want a user to try the program in full mode before buying it, in this case he knows what he buys and there won't be any disappointment. We don't need it, it's better not to have a customer at all than get the unsatisfied one. We are not going to leave the market and must think about satisfying users first. If it costs us appearing on warez websites only - no problem, we'll survive :)

I VERY much ageree with the demo version being time limited, I bought SeleQ because it was only time limited, and a few other programs, and thats a reason why I havn't Tried Digia Image spy, Because the demo version, U cant do any thing in :( I would ask if some one has a full one so I can TRY it, but some one will always say im askin for warez :( Im not! I just wanna try it! RELEASE time limited only demos! please! Then I'll know If I want to buy it!

eckrall

22-01-2003, 03:02 PM

Zipper

22-01-2003, 03:28 PM

I agree, i was looking at getting a photo enhancer prog, so I downloaded Camerfx to trial and see if it makes any noticeable difference in quality/size of pics, also, what the zoom features are like, but it wont let me take any damn pics, just says registered copy only, so i cant actually test the product to see if it does what it says on the tin :(

Now this is what I mean - I could email this guy the CameraFX full thingy - And he could try it out and buy it if he liked, MODS - Would you say thats ok? Because IMHO as long as he buys it if he likes it then its ok!

eckrall

22-01-2003, 03:35 PM

I was prolly gonna buy it anyway, but it just annoys me in a BIG way that i have to buy a product to see if i like it, almost as bad as the M$ "Once you open the packaging you are bound by the EULA and blah blah blah finishing up with... contract that states we own your fist born child and we will start collecting on Jan 1 2020, so please have him ready for collection"

sorry, just had to get that off my chest

:agrue:

Eck

J2theIZZO

22-01-2003, 03:50 PM

MODS - Would you say thats ok? Because IMHO as long as he buys it if he likes it then its ok!

NOT AT ALL, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE IS THAT ACEPTABLE....IT IS TRADING FULL VERSIONS OF THE PROGRAM.

It is not upto you and I to decide if the developers release a time limited full version or a partly enabled demo.

I do agree with you that the time limited full versions are far more useful, as you can actually use the product for its indended purpose instead of having the user interface which does nothing but look pretty.

The question begs to be asked, why would he buy the same program if you have just given it to him?....this wouldn't happen and anyone that says they would is telling porkies. :roll:

Zipper

22-01-2003, 03:53 PM

Hmm - Ok on that note I have to agree. I wonder why my avatar keeps apearing then disapearing - ?

GhostDog

22-01-2003, 04:04 PM

You dont have an avatar.

eckrall

22-01-2003, 04:05 PM

I must disagree with you on that last point, I do infact buy software, evern when it is free, prime example here is redhat Linux, I have a 1mb pipe in my house, so i could VERY easily download the ISO's and install off of those, but i CHOOSE to BUY a box set every major release.

WHY?

Because they make a DAMN good product and release it on open source for people to use, now I will admit i run multiple copies (work PC, server at work server at home, home PC and laptop, but i still contribute to the open source movement, I am very active in my local LUG and try to help people as much as possible.

anyway, im now done

feel a lot better now

going to go sleep

simeonbubblegum

22-01-2003, 06:38 PM

3. As for limitations in trial versions: there are no limitations in our trial versions except time only. We want a user to try the program in full mode before buying it, in this case he knows what he buys and there won't be any disappointment. We don't need it, it's better not to have a customer at all than get the unsatisfied one.

I have seen many different time limited demos and some of them can be used forever, and some of them use questionable ways to mark the expiration day (like writing something to logs database or something). I am not yet so clever that I could make an application that has foolproof time limit.

I have decided to provide trial versions of my software that have some advanced features disabled, but the user can always do something with the program. All features can still be seen e.g. in the menus so I think that user will understand what s/he gets when s/he buys unlock code.

MemphisX

22-01-2003, 09:27 PM

23-01-2003, 04:41 AM

You have to look at all this in-perspective

whilst I cant program I have seen symbian based software selling for $35 in my country, now no offence but im not paying $35 for a 178kb program.

Now whilst you have found that one site with all those many many serials etc on it, for the most part most ppl will never come across that site.

Microsoft made hundreds of millions last year, even admist all the thousands of pirated versions of its products
fact is 7/10 the ppl descent enough to buy the software will outweigh that little amount that wont.

Then again we all have double standards you know, how can you say your against warez and things, and then turn around and download an mp3. In the end your short changing someone still on pretending you have higher ethics.

Note - Hey I buy pieces of software myself, but again, if youre charging $30 for a program thats 200kb large, dont expect to sell too much.

23-01-2003, 06:03 AM

Let me share with you on how was one of our software cracked.
The application size (both original and cracked) is same, but as you might already know, with minor differences between them.

Comparing files Cracked.app and Original.APP
0000086C: FF 05
0000086D: FF 00
0000086E: FF A0
0000086F: FF E1
00000870: FF 3E
00000871: FF 0B
00000872: FF 00
00000873: FF EB
00000874: FF 05
00000875: FF 00
00000876: FF A0
00000877: FF E1
00000878: FF E1
00000879: FF 0A
0000087A: FF 00
0000087B: FF EB
00001120: FF 12
00001121: FF 09
00001122: FF 00
00001123: FF EB
0000CD4E: 31 49
0000CD50: 38 4D
0000CD52: 2B 45
0000CD54: 32 49

The IMEI (used for verification) is stored in an encrypted file but seems that the cracker never bother to try to break it, but, I believe, totally disable the executable code that perform the checking (as you can see the original code has been replaced with FF - NULL? Or NOP etc?).

The last four lines is text string. The phrase 'IMEI' (in About dialog) changed to '18+2' (the cracker's signature?).

I don't think I have enough resources (time and tool) to further investigate on it (as I am hired for C++ development, not into ASM or security stuff), but an ARM disassembler would be nice though.

simeonbubblegum

23-01-2003, 06:44 AM

I don't think I have enough resources (time and tool) to further investigate on it (as I am hired for C++ development, not into ASM or security stuff), but an ARM disassembler would be nice though.

I know an ARM (and THUMB) disassembler exist, and I have seen even some instructions how to make this kind of crack. Crackers can disassemble both the resources and executable. They can see where certain resource string is read (e.g. to show a note for disabled feature in unregistered version). Then they just change asm instruction to jump over the registration check.

It's easy when you know it, and spreading those registration checks all over the code just slows them little, but as said many times, sooner or later they make a cracked version.

One option is to use compressed resources (tool for that exists in the SDK) so at least cracker can't immediatly see your texts for those unregistered notes.

TheSpecialBoy

23-01-2003, 08:35 AM

You guys made this a source of inspiration for the dark side....

I think it is a matter of price, like many others mentioned.

If the price is fair, up to 3 burgers, one coke and some chips, it will increase the sales and many users will buy it. (up to 10 EUR or so)

If it is 20-40-or 70 Eur, it is somehow hard.....

That,s my point of view

seanmiguel

23-01-2003, 10:03 AM

user's point of view here, dont know nothing about the c++ stuff. :-?

if i like an app (via demo version) i buy it - as long as the price is reasonable and as long as i really have good use for it. i've been to all these warez sites, and true enough i've tested most of them. but most of these apps i really dont have any use for - also considering the freaking limited memory on our 7650 - so i dont bother having them in my phone. but if the app rocks, and the price is ok, i wont settle for anything cracked because as i've said, i dont know much about techie stuff and dont want to take chances on these apps causing problems in my phone.

apps that rock:

seleQ (bought), eprofiles pro (bought), world clock pro (bought), sSaver(bought) stacker (beta tester), sAnswer (beta tester) - that's all i need!

bottomline, if the app is really valuable, the size is ok, and the price is reasonable, more people will opt to buying it!

ps. if there'll be any app to clone the hantro video, im a sure buyer! my freaking video is expiring on 03/30/03!!!

8)

23-01-2003, 12:29 PM

I am a developer (though not for Symbian) and had a small brainwave

What about making a small tool for decryption/compression tool.

1) The encryption uses a public & private key (like PGP)
2) The private key remains secret and is used only for compiling the source
3) The public key is the buyers telephone IMEI

If a user buys the software the program is compiled dynamicly on the developers website and encrypted with the private key+IMEI. As the buyer has the public key (IMEI) the phone can decrypt the program but they never can encrypt the file again after cracking (crackers don't have the private key)

If we add compression to the en/decrypter we make sure that the code size actualy shrinks by using this system, especially if all the developers use the same tool (tool itself freeware??) so the users only have to install one decrypter program on his mobile.

Gemma

netzmeista

23-01-2003, 04:18 PM

Afaik secure open- and publickey en-/decryption takes LOTS of processing power. I remember a review of PGP for Psion Series 5 (or was it 92x0? Anything like that), and according to the review it was hardly usable cause it's too slow. Considering that some sec-check takes 30 seconds till app starts, that's not practicable.

Chaos

23-01-2003, 05:19 PM

Guys...I hate to be the spoil-sport, but I think most of you will agree that there is no way in hell to make an app crack-proof. Even by making it difficult, you are just issuing a challenge which is exactly what they want, and why they do it.
Give it up. Make it hard enough for the average person not to be able to do, and that's it.
Then just hope like most have suggested, that enough honest ppl out there buy it. I wouldn't be suprised if 99% of ppl here have tried a cracked app, but I am sure that there are a good number (mods included) that have bought it if they liked it or found it useful. I know I have...and many other here.

Can we stop trying to find uncrackable methods that are just a huge challenge to crackers? These guys are just as clever, or more so, than the ppl designing the protection.

If you try it, and you liked it, BUY IT.

talk2sk

24-01-2003, 02:39 AM

I like the idea of public key private key.. But the problem is that it probably wouldnt work because of the nature of public key encryption (PRIMES etc etc) and the speed... But I think it is worth a think about..

Time to put on the hat..

24-01-2003, 05:39 AM

Someone suggested that we should report this to Nokia for help but i think Nokia will not care about this.Nokia will just care about the sale of the service & device.Actully Nokia will be happy to see that there are lot of FREE software for their device because user will be happy to buy their phone along with those cracked & free software.
This end up the sale increase for Nokia & they will be happy.

How about report to Symbian?
Forget about it.Symbian will only care about those device makers who support them.

Poor Symbian 3rd party software developer who live on it. :D :D :D

mrcommodore64

24-01-2003, 11:03 AM

yes, stop whenever you want. Theres tons of new developers comin in.
IMHO :o

24-01-2003, 11:28 AM

the simple fact is just crunch the numbers
the amount of ppl particularly on mobile devices that find and use warez/cracked software

vs

the ppl that buy them
vastly outweigh those that use cracked versions

1. youll never stop piracy especially on these devices due to processing power etc
2. Just accept that for your intelletcual time and work you will not get a return from every single copy out there.
3. Even though all these programs as mentioned have been cracked im willing to bet they are still making a profit, and if you look at the fact that were talking about programs 100kbs in size if that
you guys arent doing to bad for yourselves.

So keep developing and just ignore the 5% if that of ppl who do manage to find and use cracked software, you guys do great stuff and as long as your making some profit and reasoable priced software you should be pleased with yourself, I know I admire you guys who develop stuff for this funky lil device.

MemphisX

24-01-2003, 09:03 PM

Ok, we all at least agree with 2 things

1.We cannot stop warez
2.Warez won't kill the companies as long as they make good proggys and they give the support we deserve...

Now let's stop posting and reapeting our posts pleaseee!

:roll: And, Hera, I beg you, P L E A S E , post a photo. Make AAS members happy :bday:

petran

24-01-2003, 09:49 PM

:roll: And, Hera, I beg you, P L E A S E , post a photo. Make AAS members happy :bday:Hey, MemphisX just pointed at the solution to warez (at least for SymbianWare)!!!!

Everyone who registers their software, should get a picture of Hera or even speak to Hera on the phone!! Nobody would use the warez "version" of SymbianWare's software anymore! :D :D :D

(sorry, after the previous post I couldn't help it!!!)

MemphisX

24-01-2003, 09:57 PM

:) Well, u got the point.

:D You got'a'gift my friend!
:P Yes you do
:x YES YOU DO :evil:

Hera

24-01-2003, 09:58 PM

I'm afraid Zeus will mind :D :D :D

MemphisX

24-01-2003, 10:08 PM

WHAT!!! :o

Hera

24-01-2003, 10:35 PM

;) :D

MemphisX

24-01-2003, 10:47 PM

petran

24-01-2003, 10:54 PM

WHAT!!! :oHa ha ha :D :D :D
I wish I could see the expression on your face!!
I guess the nicknames "Zeus" & "Hera" were not accidentally chosen by our friends at SymbianWare! The two ancient Greek gods were a couple!
And we, Greeks, MemphisX should have known better... :D

Anyway, I guess I am WAY off topic... sorry, but I enjoyed this!

Hera

24-01-2003, 11:16 PM

Ok just one photo wouldn't be so bad.

Is that right Zeus?

I am not gonna steal her I just wanna see her.

And besides Hera don't you want to be famous?
Celebrity?
A new pop star?
(ok,I said too much)

Ok, you'll see me :D I need to do some scanning. Wait for PM or email tomorrow :D

crypto

25-01-2003, 06:57 AM

25-01-2003, 10:36 AM

Hrmm such a shame when a worthy discussion deteriorates in favour of male and female flattery.

GhostDog

25-01-2003, 11:32 AM

Hrmm such a shame when a worthy discussion deteriorates in favour of male and female flattery.

Worthy discussion? C'mon,companies know about the warez issue,they all have a way with it,someones silly idea about programs sending SMS without the user knoledge or Hardcoding IMEI is not a worthy discussion.
You think that no one thought of that before?
Like MemphisX,people are just repeating them selves.
But Hera,that is another Issue :D
Zeus,you are a lucky man.
One more thing,according to Greek mithology,Zeus was very unfatihful and Hera did some vary bad things about that :D

PS:Why dont you regsiter,its free.

Ewan

25-01-2003, 12:22 PM

No it *is* a worthy post. Okay, I'm sure that the software companies who are lurking (I;ve checked... a LOT of them ARE lurking!) know these details, but many of the forum members who perhaps haven;t been around this sort of scene don't.

Some ideas may have come out of it, but I'm sure the Software peeps have a happy glow seeing the support they are getting from you all, the fact you understand..

...and of course it just shows that if you do treat Developers as real people in an adult forum the feedback to everyone involved is really good.

(PS My Wife wants a photo of Zeus - how about a nice 'couply' shot?)

GhostDog

25-01-2003, 12:38 PM

Hera

25-01-2003, 02:36 PM

1. So, here are some photos http://www.symbianware.com/photos/ (sorry for low quality)
2. Please remember the topic of the thread. If you want to be off topic - there's Community Waffle for this.

MaleBuffy

25-01-2003, 02:52 PM

Everybody go buy Symbianware products.......now! If this isnt customer service, nothing is :D

Anyways (on topic) have you got any plans for a new application? And if yes...what is it? Are you going to use a new type of copyprotection or are you just going to IMEI protect it like usual?

Hera

25-01-2003, 03:28 PM

Anyways (on topic) have you got any plans for a new application? And if yes...what is it?

2 new apps for Nokia 92xx communicators are under development

2 updates for our Nokia 7650 programs is comming soon, and 3 new Nokia 7650 apps are currently under development

and dozens of ideas ;)

Sorry but i can't give more details and descriptions so far.

Are you going to use a new type of copyprotection or are you just going
to IMEI protect it like usual?

We'll use our usual registration engine. All other methods won't
bring absolute protection (only 15 additional minutes in hacking)
and it will make the program bigger and slower.

Stezos

25-01-2003, 03:33 PM

Ok thats the final straw. How the hell am I suposed to live with myself owning an liegal Symbianware product (that i VERY rarely use, hence havent registered it) after reading the comments by the developers and now these photos. I promise it will be purchased in the next few days.
Keep up the good work. As well a being and excellent development team and your attitude towards warez does you credit, if nothing else at least it gained you $10 :D
Stezos

Rafe

25-01-2003, 04:26 PM

Ewan

25-01-2003, 04:34 PM

Stezos, that's bloody marvellous - now, be honest, that $10 didn;t hurt your finances did it? Say 3 pints of beer over the next, I dunno, 4 weeks. Now imagine if some of the thousands of lurkers here did the same - imagine seeing another $500 suddenly appear?

*Thats* the power of shareware!!!

Stezos

25-01-2003, 04:45 PM

To Rafe and Ewan-FreEPOC

Glad you liked it :D As I have mentioned at great length in a thread on another board I am a heavy user of warez mainly as a trial method and i do pay for the ones that I find usefull and continue to use, many other people do the same, I just dont mind bveing public about it. The APP that I mentioned above is smartanswer and i will be perfectly honest in saying that I had no intention of buying it because I only needed it for 4hours every other week thats 8 hours a month, the rest of the time I dont even have it installed. For the short time that I use it it is more of a convenience that anything. If I didnt use it I always have my OPs answering service. But I have been inspired to buy it just because they are so damned nice and polite :D
Stezos

MemphisX

25-01-2003, 07:49 PM

Well, first of all, although I was not going to come back to aas for sometime I just changed my mind (I must admit that aas forums are an addict for me)

And hail God-or Gods maybe(Hera/Zeus) WE ARE LUCKY.

I thought going offtopic would be the best solution to close the discussion.Was I right? We will see.

Anyway Hera,you just made aas forum members happy.

I won't be surprised if I see any banners of aas not with symbian phone's photos but Hera's!!!

PS:Zeus you were right on your reply,she looks... well you know better.But I think she reminds of someone... OK let's just stop here, it's none of your business!!!

Hera

25-01-2003, 09:44 PM

MemphisX, I'm glad I made you happy ;) :)

petran

26-01-2003, 12:01 AM

I think stezos may have a point there...
If a good software house like symbianware (not excluding others) is so close to their customers, not only by providing great technical support but also by showing a friendly "face" towards them, I do believe there are some people who would think twice before using warez instead of registering the product. For some people I guess it is easier to neglect the fact that by using warez they are doing harm to some company they know nothing/little about, than neglect doing harm to some real people who may even have been friendly to them sometime.

Of course there are always another two kinds of people, the ones that would always register a product they use and the ones who would never do that, at least as long as they have an alternative. Both these kinds may not be interested in a company's friendliness (if I may call it that). But then, the former kind is a company's almost certain customers and the latter kind is the customers a company will never have (since warez will always be, whether we like it or not).

I hope I have made myself clear about this...
(I can't help it again: If you agree, do you think that we're going to have every symbian developer's photo posted in this forum soon? :D :D
Just kidding, ok? I really liked Zeus & Hera's photos!!!! )

crypto

26-01-2003, 06:43 AM

Good software needs to be bought, and besides I have received excellent service from where I buy my original ware online.

Hera, he's a very very lucky man......wish I could have the same luck....now I wonder when that would come. ;) ;) ;) Maybe you have a sister mid-20's , I am only mid-20's

Sorry mods, just can't stop myself.........aaaarrrggghhh my office mate has restrained me now I'm fine.

crypto

26-01-2003, 07:20 AM

Any idea or is it remotely feasible or possible if Symbianware would come up with a wireless bluetooth headset program (although, I am not sure if there is additional hardware needed, is there?)

If you happen to come up with this I would buy it and be first on the line.

crypto

26-01-2003, 07:30 AM

Since Hera was sport in sharing her nice pic, why don't we start a new thread with the concept of putting a picture to the name. As all of us use an avatar of our liking or near to our reflection (I maybe wrong you know) but instead put in a real picture so that maybe one day we'd all bump into each other and we'd know right? If that is all right with the mods first and foremost of course. 8) 8)

Rafe

26-01-2003, 12:53 PM

mari0

26-01-2003, 07:09 PM

hi!

well, just to say something... if the game\app in question will be one from Purple Software i will definitely get them in warez sites, why? you ask? because their support sucks :evil: i don't even know if they have a support, since they don't respond to my emails, i bought the game hearts and i'm having several problems with that f*cking game, and those guys don't respond to my emails :evil: :evil: :evil:

:snipersmile: Purple Software

as for others developers don't be afraid, if i really like your program i will buy it, even if i have the warez "version" :)

Hankman

26-01-2003, 08:29 PM

Bad customer support or not, they don't deserve their products warezed. Just don't use their products in the future, odds are, that if there's no support, the products are not worth using - free or not.

mari0

26-01-2003, 08:51 PM

the point is i spent $13 in a software that doesn't work, since i can't get my money back since i can't return that stupid game... i will get my money in other places (warez sites) the problem is if that game doesn't work probably the other games of purple software will not work either, so no need of downloading them... even from warez sites :evil:

hugs,
mari0

Stezos

26-01-2003, 09:06 PM

If you bought it from Handango dont they have a 30day return policy if your not happy? Im sure you arent the first person ive seen complain about support from Purple Software so Handango probably have had returns from them before and a refund shouldnt be a problem.

Stezos

MemphisX

26-01-2003, 09:33 PM

Well I was wrong...

People are unstopable.

PS:Hera, did I thank you for the photos?Well I do know.
And Rafe the album idea is just magnificent.
I am looking forward to it (To show people how handsome I am!!!just kiding)

strats

26-01-2003, 09:41 PM

Now this takes "customer service" service to a whole new level. Hera, posting the photo's of yourself and Zeus just shows the commitment you have to "pleasing" your customers and I am more than happy to say you will continue to have mine and my partners support now and in the future with anything you develop. Your products and your support have been second to none... especially another un named software company who's products failed on my phone, but their customer support failed even worse.

Come on people forget the warez, it's just not worth it. Look at the commitment thet some developers (SymbianWare) are showing to you.

mari0

26-01-2003, 10:42 PM

seanmiguel

28-01-2003, 07:54 AM

oh man... i suddenly couldn't care about my phone and any apps for that matter... I CAN'T GET OVER INGA'S PICTURES!!! :oops: :oops: :oops:

you have got to keep this woman, Zeus... 8)

oh man... :oops:

crypto

28-01-2003, 08:05 AM

Don't you think we should reach a bottom line here by now, Warez hurt the developers, developers with trash software and stinking CS should be boycotted :evil: :evil: :evil: . Well, it sounds so simple but there's nothing simple anymore so let's keep it complicated (I think I'm dizzy with this :roll: :roll: )

I suggest we focus on the upgraded album, so that we could get a good look more on Hera....eehhheeem :D :D :D :D to show our good looks I mean :D :D :D .

28-01-2003, 11:13 AM

...someones silly idea about programs sending SMS without the user knoledge or Hardcoding IMEI is not a worthy discussion...
You think that no one thought of that before?

GhostDog man.... I'm dissapointed! I've read lots of your posts on various subjects, and they've all made sense, cos you always appear to have read what you're replying to. In this case, I don't believe you have. I said in my previous post that sending an IMEI to the company is a possible idea. Someone then said that sending info like this to companies is almost spyware. This is incorrect... software that spies on it's customers is, by definition, spyware. As I then pointed out, I thought it too obvious to have to state that this would be done with the user's permission. Perhaps I should have laid everything out flat so there was no room for misinterpretation, but I figured I would let people take from it what they will.

Spyware is a bad thing... Software which automatically registers itself with a central database, however, is a totally different thing. Take a good look at the software world... Warez are no longer about people trading floppy disks to get the latest game. Protection systems in the future will become tighter and tighter... whether this is a good thing or not, it will probably happen due to the way money is the deciding factor in so many decisions. When 7650's and their followers become ubiqitous, that 5% of warez users will be a reasonably large number of people.

I'm kind of rambling here, cos I'm writing a couple of lines of this, then going away to other things, then coming back, so let me summarise. GhostDog... no disrespect meant... I just don't think you've thought my proposal through properly. This is compounded by the fact that I didn't explain it fully in the first place.

In my place of work, I use a system called ARS, made by a company called Remedy. Their licensing agreement involves locking down their product to the MAC address of the network card of the server that it's running on. This isn't seen as spyware - it's an application that doesn't get warezed very often! I would not condone any information being sent back to devlopers that could be used for marketing or any other dubious reasons... simply storing the IMEI number, and the time the registration was received would enable developers to check when a product is first activated, and then if someone else registers the same product with a different IMEI, the person is warned not to use warez.

Basically, ask yourselves this... can you think of a reason for a user to be totally against this scheme? A completely legit reason... this person has nothing to hide, and they're not using warez. They could possibly object to the storing of their IMEI number... but how many other companies have more than this stored about you?

OK, after another break of going away and coming back again... i was going to just delete this, but there are some points which don't think people got the first time round...

I'm not suggesting an Orwellian method is the best way forward, but it is one that software manufacturers will experiment with - remember the big "XP phone home" crap?

I'm hoping most of you will see the glimmerings of my point below the confused ramblings above... it saddens me to believe that a lot of people are going to take all of this at face value, and think I'm saying the best method to stop warez is to store the genetic fingerprint and inside leg measurement of every customer...

Let the flames begin...

seanmiguel

28-01-2003, 11:22 AM

oh man... do we really have to go back to this again??? :-? can't we just lay back, relax and enjoy Inga's pics. :D

GhostDog

28-01-2003, 01:39 PM

MaleBuffy

28-01-2003, 03:42 PM

He is alrewady registered but posting as a guest.

Chaos

28-01-2003, 05:25 PM

Sheesh, talk about flogging a subject to death.
So how is the weather in Europe lately?

GhostDog

28-01-2003, 05:51 PM

Sheesh, talk about flogging a subject to death.
So how is the weather in Europe lately?

Very European.

spikeymike

29-01-2003, 11:17 AM

Sheesh, talk about flogging a subject to death.
So how is the weather in Europe lately?

Very European.

Agreed... on both counts :-)

30-01-2003, 05:46 AM

30-01-2003, 06:23 AM

Who are u & where r you from? :evil:

Are u going to challenge our developer or AAS? :x

Basically, you win because all the developer can do nothing with you & your site.

:D :D :D

Edgedale

30-01-2003, 07:00 AM

Your site is down. I will remove the link.

hey people....
i am so amazed that you are all talking about my site.... hehehe

well good luck to you all and more power to AAS!

www.the-link-is-down.org people!

its down right nowbut itwillbe up again soon...

GhostDog

30-01-2003, 01:09 PM

hey people....
i am so amazed that you are all talking about my site.... hehehe

well good luck to you all and more power to AAS!

www.link-is-down.org people!

its down right nowbut itwillbe up again soon...

I have seen your web site and i have only one thing to say.
You need web design lessons.

Cheers.

30-01-2003, 08:00 PM

30-01-2003, 08:01 PM

Sorry about my english :D

31-01-2003, 02:52 AM

www.disney.com may be down but i have a temporary site, www.gone.com
hehehe, check it out have fun!!!

hahaha, poor souls....

Sämi

31-01-2003, 04:20 AM

I think it's fair!
You guys develope software and there are guys hwo are spending time to crack them or make keygen for them.. 50/50 you get your 50% money rich guys/liggal costummers and they get thier 50% wishes to help poor people who want to follow the tecnologi and don't have money...

;)

common....

They make some many with the traffic on sites like this...

only about money,and even stolen work....

and if u think,the level is 50/50....

forget about it:

most of the peopel here maybe try once a crack app.

But only kiddys will hold them on the phone...

most other peopel will spend a coupel of boxes for a good application.

Because support is what u pay 4 also,

and a cra*** Progy is no fun,if there comes out any updates with new features and new bugfixes.

(At the time u waste for found the new versions allways,
u could make a lot more money then u should pay for any of it.)

Sämi

seanmiguel

31-01-2003, 07:15 AM

cant be bothered to react here, really. ;)

31-01-2003, 08:45 AM

to make things clear first...
my site does not make any money from traffic..
i dont do it for the money, i do it to help people who are trying to save up money for their colleges and stuff.
some people who want apps cant have them because they cost too much, you guys put price tags on your softwares as if it had goldbars in it...
your apps cost too much thats why crackers and key generators are built...

and thats why there are people like me who spread this magnificent works... we are trying to help out each other...
we are trying to get away from you greedy monsters...

Zeus

31-01-2003, 09:14 AM

TheSpecialBoy

31-01-2003, 09:18 AM

Still no answer...

No, they should not stop.....

Because we need them, as mutch as we need other services that we pay for.....

What it will be helpfull for Developers, is to integrate some programs into the phone, to buy the software when you buy the phone....Cool

kobe24

31-01-2003, 09:29 AM

Developers should never stop developing. It's just like saying you'd never cook you favorite dish because someone stole your recipe or posted it in the internet so that everyone can taste it.

It's called spillage, and it is contribution to humanity.

I'm a developer myself and it's also a satisfaction if we get to help people with their daily lives, giving them tools for them to use.

Ewan

31-01-2003, 10:44 AM

It's kinda hard for me to comment on the pros and cons of financila effects on warezing as Freepoc software (suprisingly) never really appears on these sites - which kinda blows the putting everything in one place so you can 'test' it out the water.

What is good is we can see how many people 'grab' software when it first appears - and I would be interested in comparing our numbers to those of Symbianware et al.

I do rememeber a story when the maintainer of Tome Raider discovered that the S5mx version had been warezed. He sent an email to the Hacker Group in the file.id which basically said "I'm proud you decided my app was good enough to warez, can you tell me how you did it?"

Suprisingly they did, and they helped him out on a bug hunt.

This is not in support of warez, but pointing out that warez guys aren't going to go away - I think Symbianware's attitude (and many others) is to chase the 95% of honest people, and not divert too much attention on complicated protection systems that get broken anyway. Much better to code a new app!

yankee_2002

01-02-2003, 04:34 PM

Hey Guys,

It's like saying, you surrender... Did Microsoft stop producing its Windows OS because of piracy?
It does means that there are people there more intelligent than the developers. Sad to know BUT ITS TRUE... Why don't you produce softwares that are crack proof?

MaleBuffy

01-02-2003, 10:39 PM

unfortuantely there is no such thing as crack proof software!

02-02-2003, 02:03 AM

You are completly right!

U all know the CamFX 1.2 which features CRC selfcheck and a packed dll for registration check...

I don't need such an app which has over 10kb for these reg stuff.
btw: It has bad picture quality too.

Believe it or not it was running in full mode at my phone...

18+2

kobe24

03-02-2003, 06:18 AM

Why don't you produce softwares that are crack proof?

Maybe because by the time we develop a crack proof app, All the developers' heads, including mine, would be cracked already.

liljiang

17-02-2003, 08:28 AM

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Wow..thx for sharing.....

17-02-2003, 10:36 PM

Guti

18-02-2003, 01:38 AM

Make every single copy unique in code so that we can keep trace of which copied is hacked & thus we know who is one one or the one should paid resposiblity.
Every single copied sold use different coding method.
Though it waste time but I willing to do that because people paid me, & i would like to give them their unique one.

About the trial.
Limit the function by time & date.
For example,
Every Monday, function a is diable.
Every Tuesday, function b is disable,....
Full functioning on Sunday only.
:-)
So people got change to test all the function & even the trial get hacked, never mind coz it is not fully functioning & hacker know how to fix it then that means they are already recode(partially) the whole program.

By using this way, they can only hacked ouir idea on the trail version only.
They can't hacked the full because every single cipy sold is unique & if they hacked the full copy, we can trace out who is the owner of that copy.

:-)

schizo

18-02-2003, 02:57 AM

the address is URL REMOVED BY ADMIN
it is down at the moment but it willbe soon back up.
i heard it was having problems with the companies and stuff because law suits are filing up. hahaha

anyway, there are still a lot of ignorant people who buy your apps, so why are you so worried?
cracked and deistributed software are only used by people who know stuff or have searched the net.
not everyone does that and thus still giving you guys a market to place your product in.

tell me if i dont make any sense...

18-02-2003, 04:06 AM

At least, you should kindly inform/acknowlege the coder that you are now able to crark their program one week before you release the cracked copied.

In this way, most of the developer don't mind & they will be happy that someone is doing debuging for them.;-)

18-02-2003, 04:06 AM

MirekCz

18-02-2003, 05:30 PM

The amount of ignorance to hard work of others is shocking.

It comes to the point where Mr. Schizo says "anyway, there are still a lot of ignorant people who buy your apps, so why are you so worried?
cracked and deistributed software are only used by people who know stuff"

As a person that "know stuff" you should know that it's possible to send sms'es etc. by software without user control.
I can't wait for one "funny" crack that will auto-send a ton of smses when you use it and give you a few thousands $ bill to pay.
Not mentioning the possibility to auto-send your IMEI number to owner of software and use it in court to sue you upon using piracy software.

Phones are much more vulnerably to such attacks then PCs as they can hardly be disconnected from network and at the same time it's v.easy to get you a huge bill.

You will learn fast enought to buy legal software.

Theran

18-02-2003, 05:34 PM

Give up developing Symbian and go for Microsoft then.

There are always people cracking programs.

Even XP with so much security features also got cracked.

You as a developer? Developer for money or a developer for Symbian user?

MemphisX

18-02-2003, 09:02 PM

I don't believe it.
The mighty Schiz0 is a registered AAS forum member!!!

Well, what is next?

20-02-2003, 09:43 PM

me too.
xxlufc_2@hotmail.com

Doc

23-02-2003, 07:08 PM

I don't think the companies selling symbian software need to worry about
the hackers. The prices of the software are reasonable. I buy good quality software because I expect future support and upgrades.

Anybody who trusts hacked software on there phones are very gullible. Anybody that spends time hacking software and distributes it has a hidden agenda.

Why bother to expose yourself if the real thing costs $10 -$20?

Think how much your phone cost you? You can't be that poor?

Doc

23-02-2003, 07:12 PM

I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks this way?

AEFOX

23-02-2003, 08:11 PM

HI!..

my opinion is...

there are TWO MARKETS...

1... A free (dark) Market... for those people that SEARCH for free software for any reasons (sometimes because it's not simple to pay for it, make transactions, use credit cards or whatever).. so they look for Warez, cracked or any free software.

2... A Cost (pay) Market... for those that SEARCH for legal stuff, buy and download the software.

i think that the difference in the quality of the software on both market is the same, crackers are good, and they make a good job doing crack, because they need software working too.

Anyway my point is that Developers and companies don't have to worry about crackers.. they will not quit their job and they are not stolen the BUY Market.

The users decide what to use... and where to find ...

the amount of honest people and people who like to get legal and original software and use the BUY Market will always keep the Developers and Software Companies alive.

The BUY Market will stay alive... many people buy software...

and Free (warez) will stay alive too... but for those that want and SEARCH for that.

Don't fight with Crackers, many of them begin like this.. then are working on good companies making the software that we are using right now.
And any try to getting apart the crackers... simply make them stronger...

we have to live with that...

cya!

12-03-2003, 07:59 PM

can you send me photo editor for nokia 7650 ???
thanks you

to: addressremoved

evobit

12-03-2003, 08:51 PM

I'd like to see the developer who creates a program that sends your imei somewhere without first notifying the user. I'm fairly sure that would be illegal, not to mention as soon as somebody found out that company's reputation would be mud.

Same would go for sending 1000's of txt msgs. Nuff said.

MirekCz

13-03-2003, 10:48 AM

Evobit:hmm, to be honest?
I don't think so as you don't write your name on "cracked" version of software... you simply release it like someone else (ie PDA BLIZZARD) would crack it... ppl download, ppl run, one week later ppl send 1000 smses... like you can't find crackers, you can't find who released this version...
I know there has been such an episode in PC shareware.. one guy released his "cracked" software to warez sites.. it formatted ppl hd or sth, no idea, don't remember... in the end he even said it was him... and? noone has done him anything.

evobit

13-03-2003, 08:28 PM

spikeymike

14-03-2003, 11:01 AM

I think you mis-understood me, I was talking about the developers, not the crackers :) Earlier in the thread it was also discussed about software sending your imei to the developer as a security measure...

Damn... I really wish people would read the threads properly. I mentioned using this as a protection method... a load of people (oops, I came close to saying idiots there... lucky i stopped myself :-D) thought I was saying I'm a developer, I'm gonna do this, this idea is brilliant, etc. This is wrong. I merely put this forward as a method of protection that any security conscious software company would consider as an alternative. Personally, I wouldn't be too comfortable about a registration process requiring me to send out a text message - but if that was the way the company decided to protect their software, and the program was worth it, so be it.

evobit, I mean no offence, but c'mon, read the damn post! I specifically said a couple of posts down I didn't explicitly state that this would be done with the user's acknowledgement as I thought this was... wait for it... too damn obvious! And yes, you're right, sending a message without the users permission is illegal.

What's interesting is all of these people complaining about this. It brings to mind all the old sayings like "he who doth protest too much...". Scared of getting your cracks taken away from you guys?

Just kidding... peace, guys... :-)

14-03-2003, 11:59 AM

What's interesting is all of these people complaining about this. It brings to mind all the old sayings like "he who doth protest too much...". Scared of getting your cracks taken away from you guys?

It depends. There are users here that hate cracks but they still believe that a software (for 7650) which eats sooooooooo much space because of useless protection is an idiot move by a developer.

Why? simple because they failed!
They failed themselves
They failed the legal users.

I dont think so that cracked users are scared to lose their cracks ... simply because they did not spend even a cent.

Its the legal users are scared coz developers might stop developing.

ili

14-03-2003, 12:19 PM

All over universe there is good and there is evil, there cannot be only good or only evil... Warez and legal stuff are needed if u see it from different viewing points and only if both exist can there be harmony...

MirekCz

14-03-2003, 04:24 PM

sending sms...

well, on legal issue it's not a problem, you could simply ask for a permission... but what then? How should application be activated etc? there's no way to do it... and even knowing someones IMEI number doesn't give you much possibilities to sue him or anything (many developers are v.small , few ppl companies with close to null cash...)

Another thing is that you can find the spot where sms is sent and change code so it does NOTHING instead sending an SMS... and you're getting away without sending one... again good user gets kicked (needs to send sms), bad user gets his warez...

21-03-2003, 01:20 AM

12-04-2003, 03:34 PM

That is gay. Nobody thinks about that most software companies developing for phones today are very small and need The income to support themselves and their families and also for continuing to develop good and cheap software for YOU the endusers. It makes re sad

12-04-2003, 04:26 PM

People will always prefer to get something free,rather than buying it no matter how cheap or expensive it may be.I think it's simply a matter of whether or not one respects other people's effort and work.But there should be other methods of payment other than payment by credit card.Only software market offers a payment by bank wire option.Everywhere else you'll need a credit card to buy anything and that is a major problem in my opinion.

daniatt

12-04-2003, 05:09 PM

ApaKaka

12-04-2003, 06:28 PM

Seriously, ever heard of DEBIT card? I mean, unless you're under legal adult age, anyone can get these.. you get no credit, but it debits from your current bank balance (that is, if you get it through your personal bank that you get your paychecks to).. It works like any VISA, credit or debit, and costs simply, just about nothing.

So, saying that you won't support developers because you don't have a credit card is lame, it's useless, and you're just using that as an excuse because you're too lazy or uncaring of other peoples efforts, because getting a decent VISA debit card can be done in a day.

And as said above, most developers have other ways to pay for it.

12-04-2003, 08:20 PM

Who said anything about not supporting developers???And yes,i know what debit cards are and how they work.I never suggested that people should get warez because you need a credit card for online shopping.Didn't i mention that it is simply a matter of whether or not one respects other peoples' effort and work?Didn't i mention software market and it's payment by bank wire option that in my opinion other sites should follow?And visa electron is issued by certain banks not all of them,at least where i live,and the two banks that i am having accounts at,are not among them.Please,read carefully my last post,i never said that developers should not be supported.Quite the contrary.I just suggested that other sites should follow software market's example and offer various methods of payment that would suit everyone.

12-04-2003, 09:00 PM

Maybe it may be a good idea to be able to buy your software on this wap site cos some people might not have computers and ways of paying without a credit card cos some people dont have them either e mail me if you think it is a good idea on stoneyms@o2.co.uk thanks

MaleBuffy

12-04-2003, 09:07 PM

Logging in would be nice! 8)

liverpool lad

12-04-2003, 09:19 PM

Yeap, no excuse for not buying apps you appreciate. Most are priced around 10-15 €. One a month will not break the bank. Generally with 2-3 week trial periods, so you can see if you like/use it. And then you get support, you can suggest improvements...

Would you go down the supermarket and walk out with a basket of goods without paying??

As Malebuffy suggested some time back (unique compiling for an IMEI), it may be a bit more work for the developers, but if it allows them to get paid (more often), best of luck to them. But these are small programs, and the crackers are ingenious people.

Paul

13-04-2003, 12:04 AM

Well i cant get a credit or debt card only electron and i am 21 yr old so explain that i have to borrow my mums credit card all the time but she is getting fed up of lending it to me

MemphisX

13-04-2003, 09:51 AM

This topic is just... RECYCLING

GhostDog

13-04-2003, 11:50 AM

At least we are protecting the nature! :D :D :D

MemphisX

13-04-2003, 02:36 PM

MemphisX

13-04-2003, 02:37 PM

The only reason that this topic is usefull is Hera's photos... ;)

petran

15-04-2003, 09:39 AM

The only reason that this topic is usefull is Hera's photos... ;) :D
A bit off-topic but once u mentioned it, I haven't seen Hera or Zeus posting for quite some time now... Although I don't visit every single day and I don't visit all forums, I used to see them a lot some time ago, so much that I was wondering if they work around the clock! Especially Hera! I hope nothing is wrong..

MemphisX

15-04-2003, 10:22 AM

You are right. I haven't seen them for a long time, too. I believe their on vacation. Just hope that their vacations were not on Iraq... :D

Hera

15-04-2003, 04:48 PM

Hi guys,
We're ok, thanks for asking :) Had to have some rest - working 7 days a week made me hate computers for some time. Doctors told it was flu :D Anyway we're back :D

liverpool lad

15-04-2003, 05:20 PM

Welcome back :D

Paul

MemphisX

15-04-2003, 05:29 PM

Welcome back Hera. I hope Zeus is also alright. Just check the gallery as well as the community wafle. many interesting things have been done since your last visit here in aas forum...

16-04-2003, 07:17 AM

hey sad developer!
please could you mail me the site where you got the keygen for all nokia 7650 cracks.
Thanks buddy

My email ID @
Thanks once again :)

daniatt

16-04-2003, 07:25 AM

:D :D :D
this thread will be lock or your address will be gone forever :D

petran

16-04-2003, 09:26 AM

Hi guys,
We're ok, thanks for asking :) Had to have some rest - working 7 days a week made me hate computers for some time. Doctors told it was flu :D Anyway we're back :DOh, good to see you again! I had missed seeing your name in the "users browsing this forum" list all the time! :D I was afraid you might have decided to actually "stop develop for symbian" as this topic indicates (so we are not off-topic after all :P )

BTW, when I had flu (a couple of days ago) I spent most of my time on the PC.. I guess it is a different variation of flu! :D

16-04-2003, 10:52 AM

Sad Developer,
Would you tell us in which site you found those cracked programs? :o

MemphisX

16-04-2003, 12:46 PM

Ok now I think it is a good time to lock this thread. I don't think it will give us anything interesting any more. Maybe only illegal stuff (warez links you know) MODS DO YOU HEAR?

arkh

17-04-2003, 01:46 PM

Dear LORD
I have a nokia 3650 Cellular phone and i need seriously to
Smart Answer 1.03 Cracked Prg for my phone
please! if Possible!!!!!
Mail me this site Address to download this program
thank you for your help
alireza
my mail is : addressremoved

JyriK edit: Didint you read this thread?? BUY THE APP! Read the forum rules.

@gr

17-04-2003, 03:04 PM

Hey guys,read the forum's statement.I think it's quite clear.

Hera

17-04-2003, 05:09 PM

Dear LORD
I have a nokia 3650 Cellular phone and i need seriously to
Smart Answer 1.03 Cracked Prg for my phone
please! if Possible!!!!!
Mail me this site Address to download this program
thank you for your help
alireza

Well, if cracked version will work on 3650, please mail it to me as well :D :D :D

daniatt

17-04-2003, 05:26 PM

Well, if cracked version will work on 3650, please mail it to me as well

ROFL :angel:

18-04-2003, 08:56 PM

due to the length of this thread, only really read first and last page, and i tend to agree with the majority of the posts.

as a general user, piracy... i have no qualms with it whatsoever. a lot of the software out there is *very* expensive and designed for industry types to purchase, i dont see the problem with me (a student) running a copy of [x] to do an assignment cos i can't afford the £500 it costs.

but the symbian stuff is different.

most of the software is cheap, and most of the people producing the software are small groups of people, not making much $ from the projects they create. unfortunately, i have no income atm, so i'll probably be restricted to the trials and freeware for the majority of the time (altho, i must add, if i saw a copy of some of the software w/ keygens, i might have to test it out. but also i must add : a large majority of my cd/dvd/previous_concerts have been purchased legally after experiencing a pirate copy, so it doesn't *always* work in the negative)

its great theres so many freeware apps out there, but due to the size of the memory on the 7650, i can't see me purchasing many pieces of software if most of the time i'll be shifting them between the phone and my pc. im happy with the 7650 as a phone with a few cool gimmicks. i have no need for most of the commercial software out there, so lets hope the people who use their phone seriously pay for the software.

(i can't even afford to use GPRS functions!)