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-   -   How many phones per day does it take to change the media? (http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96417)

slitchfield 07-09-2010 03:44 PM

How many phones per day does it take to change the media?
 
One of the things that first aiders are taught is triage – the initial assessment of patients to work out which ones have a genuine problem and need to be looked at as soon as possible; and which ones are shouting loudly because they’ve broken a nail. In the online noise of social media and blogging, that triage skill is just as vital, because the companies making the loudest noises aren’t always telling the whole story.

Read on in the full article.

Jimmy1 07-09-2010 03:54 PM

Well, this actually says more about Nokia's ability to market and advertise. They're not the only ones who are awful at it; so is Microsoft.

Both companies are sort of like that balding older relative, who dresses up in their polyester leisure suit and gold chains, and strives to be "hip", "with it" and "into what the kids are doing these days". It's painful to watch.

the_accidental 07-09-2010 03:57 PM

Well, fair play for putting the numbers in context, however there's a different side to this.

I don't have the numbers to hand (I'll leave them for a journalist to dig out ;-) ) but I think the number show despite the lower volume that iPhones are more profitable for apple than symbian phones for nokia.

However, I do wonder what profit google sees from Android?

So which numbers matter? Number of devices? Market share? Profit? And who do they matter to? These are the interesting questions...

Unregistered 07-09-2010 04:11 PM

Market-share matters to iPhone users until you mention it is going down. Then they move the goalposts and claim profits matter more.

richardyates 07-09-2010 04:20 PM

Has Nokia become British now? I could have sworn they didn't come from Southwark

MemphisX 07-09-2010 04:24 PM

Very well said Ewan. I couldn't put it better...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 475621)
Market-share matters to iPhone users until you mention it is going down. Then they move the goalposts and claim profits matter more.

Nice point...even for someone anonymous ;) but I will change the word users...to hardcore fanboys. Not every iPhone user really cares about how well their device sells!

UKJeeper 07-09-2010 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardyates (Post 475623)
Has Nokia become British now? I could have sworn they didn't come from Southwark


Nokia's in Finland IIRC. SYMBIAN (which is whom Steve is referencing) on the other hand...




1 Boundary Row
Southwark
London SE1 8HP
United Kingdom

Unregistered 07-09-2010 04:38 PM

New os
 
When Nokia start shipping phones with a brand new operating system people might sit up and take notice. Surely even the most ardent Nokia/Symbian fans realize that the N95 was their last great handset. Godspeed Meego

Unregistered 07-09-2010 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy1 (Post 475618)
Well, this actually says more about Nokia's ability to market and advertise. They're not the only ones who are awful at it; so is Microsoft.

Both companies are sort of like that balding older relative, who dresses up in their polyester leisure suit and gold chains, and strives to be "hip", "with it" and "into what the kids are doing these days". It's painful to watch.

What a wierd planet you must live on.

Unregistered 07-09-2010 04:50 PM

Face the fact, Symbian phones are not exciting nor do they make the users want to do things with the phone. This is the fact that continues to escape the "Nokia sells millions more phones" a month crowd. The phones they sell are not high-end phones and they simply continue to be boring, workman phones that no one is interested in just pulling out of their pocket to play with. The last phone that had this type of feel was the N95. The N86 was okay but abandoned. The same fate is on the horizon with the N8. Great hardware, same old boring OS and a complete lack of eco-system (Ovi has fail all over it). Android and Apple have proven that hardware with a good (excellent on Apple's part) eco-system is what matters. Users want more than just the ability to make phone calls or send text messages. They want a bit of flash on their phones and Nokia simply does not deliver this.

Unregistered 07-09-2010 04:50 PM

Well, for the granddaddy of smartphones OSes, the numbers surely are kinda of worrying. So you mean Symbian, which is around for how many years now? activates 300K devices a day while Android, a newcomer, activates 200K? So Android needed 1 year and a half (or even just one year of real presence on the market) to get to 2/3 of Symbian? When I look at the numbers, I don't see "largest smartphone market share" but "fast-eroding market share".

Unregistered 07-09-2010 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 475630)
What a wierd planet you must live on.

Summed it up quite well

ajck 07-09-2010 04:57 PM

We have to ask what ultimately matters - why are we making any comparisons anyway? Well, profits matter if you're an objective investor in Apple or Nokia stocks who's solely interested in the return they'll get. At the moment, you'd choose Apple. This profit comparison completely ignores anything other than return on investment, in which case you can also compare those stocks with anything else - sugar, oil, department stores, banks, you name it.

Some have suggested that Apple having more profits allows them to develop better products (i.e. making batter technology available to consumers) and make better acquisitions of other companies - all for the benefit of consumers. And yet, who are we seeing doing WAY more of that than Apple? Nokia. E.g. they bought Navteq and, bluntly, have given millions of poorer people very full featured free sat nav, not just on the high end (yep, high end) N8, but on the real cheapo 5800, 52xx series devices.

So, what ultimately matters, if you're not some disinterested stock investor, is making the best technology available to the most people in the world. Nokia are far and away the clear leaders in this the world over. Not only the recent series comparing low end Androids with low end Nokia Symbian phones, but lots of other anecdotes, have shown Android simply can't compete AT ALL with Nokia Symbian phones at the low end. iPhone isn't even in the running. Nokia take a tiny fraction of the profits other handset makers take per handset, but so many more millions of people benefit as a result.

Then there's the high end. All of you about to buy an N8, know that you are getting a piece of technology that is WELL in advance of anything else you can buy out there not only for a similar price, but at any higher price too. Look at the N8 features (I'm talking the quality of the N8 implementations, not just the presence in a feature list)! They blow all other Androids and iPhone and Blackberries out of the water.

All this 'noise' in the marketplace is because, for a short time, Nokia's UI, developer support, and app store wasn't quite as good as the competition. End of story. The big question for everyone is, if Nokia/Symbian have been selling that many more smartphones with their 'old', 'crap' S60 5th edition handsets, what happens when they flex their muscles, upgrade Symbian to ^3 and then ^4, and produce even better hardware like the incredible N8? What happens when the Ovi Store makes devs real money, and sells apps in the many millions? What happens when developer support is BETTER than on iPhone or Android? Well all those things are happening now.

Furthermore, what happens when the phone options for hundreds of millions of poorer consumers are a sophisticated Nokia/Symbian smartphone with free nav, app store, etc etc, or a limited featurephone? What happens when much of that growth is in emerging markets, where Nokia already reign, and Symbian vs other smartphones is already no contest?

I find it hard to see any other future than overwhelming Nokia/Symbian dominance worldwide, as the vastly more efficient Symbian continually outclasses Android at the lowest end where people are upgrading featurephones to smartphones. On the app front (noting that Nokia has more functionality built in anyway than rival platforms), eventually developers will realise the new gold rush is on Ovi/Symbian/Meego, not on the oversaturated iPhone and Android, where most don't make money.

Unregistered 07-09-2010 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 475632)
Face the fact, Symbian phones are not exciting nor do they make the users want to do things with the phone. [blah blah blah] Users want a bit of flash on their phones and Nokia simply does not deliver this.

Oh yes? Wierd, I thought the N8 blew all other Androids and iPhones away on the 'doing things' front, and the 'flash' front - both the flash you mean and may I say Adobe Flash too ha ha ;-)
Show me a competitor with the camera quality of an N8, the HDMI connectivity, the true Dolby 5.1 out, the WebTV, the USB on the Go, the media ability, the graphics power and so on.

You say confidently what 'users' want, and yet 'users' are buying so many Nokia/Symbian phones every day that it's outselling it's rivals by "each week there are 200,000 more Symbian phones out there than iPhones, and almost 500,000 more than Android.".

Unregistered 07-09-2010 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 475633)
Well, for the granddaddy of smartphones OSes, the numbers surely are kinda of worrying. So you mean Symbian, which is around for how many years now? activates 300K devices a day while Android, a newcomer, activates 200K? So Android needed 1 year and a half (or even just one year of real presence on the market) to get to 2/3 of Symbian? When I look at the numbers, I don't see "largest smartphone market share" but "fast-eroding market share".

1.) Android is not taking significant share from Symbian. Both are growing rapidly. Android is merely accelerating from a standstill to find a peak before it dips again.

2.) Did you read the article? Here's some facts from it: "each week there are 200,000 more Symbian phones out there than iPhones, and almost 500,000 more than Android. Symbian is not being caught and left behind, in terms of raw numbers they are pulling away by a significant percentage every single day."

Please stop trying to dispute facts.

And just to knock this one on the head, there are about 15 - 20 million Androids (give or take a few million) out in the world. There are over 350 million Symbian phones and Symbian is increasing that lead over Android by half a million a week. 'nuff said :)


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