All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

  #1  
Old 27-11-2004, 09:33 PM
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Nokia 9500 vs Qtek9090/MDA III/XDAIIs/I-Mate

Hello Everybody,

I am new to this forum but have long been a fan of Nokia and committed to the open source OSs like Symbian. I have used Nokia 9110 (Geos) and then, for the last more than three years a 9210 Communicator. As the 9210 has long been obsolete regarding some of its features, I have been planning to have a more modern device. As you see, I have waited till the release of 9500 and I am delighted to read all the tests, feedbacks and reviews you are producing. (I am now waiting, for instance, for the third part of the 9500 review by Ewan.)

However, I keep an eye on other developments of the 'all in one' device market and, even if many of us have reservations regarding handhelds running a MS OS, Pocket PC 2003 SE (Mobile Phone Ed), I wish to know your opinion about Qtek9090/MDA III/XDAIIs/I-Mate - which is the ultimate PDA-GSM of HTC sold under several brand names (as indicated) by T-Mobile, Vodafone, Orange, O2 etc. It has practically the same features (except EGPRS-EDGE) and costs more or less the same, but it possesses a touchscreen with handwriting recognition, too. Its large screen and multimedia capabilities make it quite interesting and in many aspects seemingly a better deal than the 9500.

So, as my heart is still for Nokia, but I want the better deal, please advise me which one to buy. I know that migrating all my data from my current 9210 would certainly be easier to its natural successor, the 9500.

Thanks in advance!

  #2  
Old 27-11-2004, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB333
Hello Everybody,



So, as my heart is still for Nokia, but I want the better deal, please advise me which one to buy. I know that migrating all my data from my current 9210 would certainly be easier to its natural successor, the 9500.

Thanks in advance!
I had to chance to very briefly play around w/ the I-mate variant and I would say that if you are into SMS, it is really very difficult to hold in one hand and at the same time compose and send SMS. I have also read somewhere that battery life is on the very short side.
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Old 28-11-2004, 12:11 AM
BB333 BB333 is offline
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Thank you for your reply.

Actually, for writing an sms, you have got with the newest variant, which I referred to, four ways of input. A built-in retractable full-QWERTY thumb keyboard has been added to the handwriting recognition, the block recogniser and the typing with the stylus pen on the virtual keyboard appearing on the screen (these three latter ways had existed on the predecessors). I am aware though, that the 9500 Communicator's keyboard is much more confortable. Nevertheless, a foldable bluetooth full keyboard may be purchased additionally for about 57Ä, having the size of a laptop's keyboard, that makes it more confortable.

I have also read about PDAs being not very energy-effective - and certainly the contrary is true for the EPOC based Symbian OS devices.

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Old 28-11-2004, 12:23 AM
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In your second post, You seem to know everything about that device w/c is quite contrary to your first post wherein you asked for an advice.

I would suggest that you never ask for one if you yourself is quite sure of each devices advantages. You know very well what you want.

  #5  
Old 28-11-2004, 05:29 PM
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Search the forum.This topic has been already discussed: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum...ad.php?t=27468

Quote:
However, I keep an eye on other developments of the 'all in one' device market
Having to carry an additional keyboards is not my understanding of 'all in one' device.

Quote:
I am aware though, that the 9500 Communicator's keyboard is much more confortable
The keyboards on the 9500 can be used for touch-typing while the one on the MDA III can only be used for thumb-typing.
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  #6  
Old 28-11-2004, 06:08 PM
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I think you might have misunderstood me, for which I am rather sorry, but may I ask you not to write such statements suggesting I only wanted to demonstrate my perfect knowledge; I have a great many other things to do than spending time with creating a thread. I do need advice from those, Iím sure there are many, who know the "all in one" converging devices much better than I do.

I certainly had not not said that I did not know anything about the devices to be compared (P910i and Motorola Mpx could also be added to them). I know them quite well IN THEORY, as I have been planning an upgrade for a year now.

Here are some of my specific queries:

1. Does Skype or MS Messenger or other free IT-phone software run under Symbian?

2. Is really - as many suggest - the size of Symbian office files smaller than that of those running under MS Pochet PC, and is there a difference in their functionalities?

3. Which device/brand keeps its price better on the second-hand market?

4. Did many of you have problems with opening the 9210 Communicator a lot? (I had to change its case 3 times in three years, spending to fix only these problems about 300 euros over this period? Those of you who have got the brand new 9500, do you think there is a difference in durability between the 9210 and its successor? Here the touchscreen and the availability of every function without opening seem to have advantages - please persuade me of the contrary.

5. I have already read on this forum about the speed problems of the 9500, although EPOC was well known for handling all data much faster and more reliable than MS, being much more efficient even with slower processors. The MDAIII/XDAIII/Qtek alternatives have got an Intel 400 Mhz one, but I could never compare its real speed to that of the 9500, so advice is welcome.

6. Using languages and characters. Those who type only in English are quite fortunate not to have this question to answer. Although Unicode characters should have already solved the problem, I have always had compatibility problems when sending e-mails from my 9210 to several friends using the most common computers and software. I had problems with French, Spanish, Italian and Hungarian characters - they were not displayed on the receiving device in the same way as they were on mine (there was mentioned: converted from EPOC). Has anybody tried this already with the 9500? Which are the languages available on the ROM of the 9500?

7. Encryption. I know that 128bit encryption is available for the 9500 with a Psiloc software. Is that available for Pocket PC?

8. Software. Is it true that there are much more freeware for downloading for Pocket PCs than for the 9500 or Symbian devices in general?

9. Stability of the operation system. Which one is better? I remember my problems with the 9210 and have already read in this forum about some similar ones on the 9500 (and certainly about horrifying data loss with MS, too).

10. Video, photo and voice recorder functionalities. Qtek seems to be here a better deal with the big screen. Can you view films in full screen mode with the 9500? What about zip capabilities?

11. I heard that Opera is best browser on earth for mobile devices owing to its smart rendering technology. I am not quite sure whether Qtek can compete with that, but the newest version of Pocket PC 2003 Second Edition supports the horizontal/vertical mode switching, so it seems to be more comfortable as before. I stress again that I have never had either of the devices in my hands. So please, advise.

12. Exporting the Favouritesí list. Is it possible from the 9500? (Desktop PCs, as far as I know, allow that.)

13. I read that Log functionality is much better now with the 9500. Do you know anything about that in the Qtek9090/MDAIII/XDA/I-mate?

14. City maps and GPS is available on Pocket PCs. What about the 9500?

15. Do MS files retain de same format after being edited on the 9500 or do they have to be converted back to MS from Symbian?

16. What about the WLAN/Wi-Fi functionality? Nokia announced that the 9500 received the certificate of the Wi-Fi Alliance. Is that not case with Qtek? Is there a difference in the reliability of the two devices in this particular function?

Thanks in advance for all those who spend some time of reading/answering these questions.

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Old 28-11-2004, 07:09 PM
fuoriporta fuoriporta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB333
I think you might have misunderstood me, for which I am rather sorry, but may I ask you not to write such statements suggesting I only wanted to demonstrate my perfect knowledge; I have a great many other things to do than spending time with creating a thread. I do need advice from those, Iím sure there are many, who know the "all in one" converging devices much better than I do.

I certainly had not not said that I did not know anything about the devices to be compared (P910i and Motorola Mpx could also be added to them). I know them quite well IN THEORY, as I have been planning an upgrade for a year now.

Here are some of my specific queries:

PREAMBLE. I HAD THE 9090. I SOLD IT. I OWN THE 9500.

1. Does Skype or MS Messenger or other free IT-phone software run under Symbian?

IF NOT ACTUALLY, IT'LL BE SOON.

2. Is really - as many suggest - the size of Symbian office files smaller than that of those running under MS Pochet PC, and is there a difference in their functionalities?

WORK VERY SIMILAR

3. Which device/brand keeps its price better on the second-hand market?

FOR SURE 9500

4. Did many of you have problems with opening the 9210 Communicator a lot? (I had to change its case 3 times in three years, spending to fix only these problems about 300 euros over this period? Those of you who have got the brand new 9500, do you think there is a difference in durability between the 9210 and its successor? Here the touchscreen and the availability of every function without opening seem to have advantages - please persuade me of the contrary.

THERE ARE DIFFR 9500, SOME REALLY SOFT, OTHERS VERY HARD (LIKE MINE). TEST IT BEFORE, BUT IT SEEMS BETTER THAN 9210.
I PREFER TO WOTK WITH DIRECTIONAL PAD THAN TOUCH SCREEN. 9500 IS FASTER FOR FIX APPOINTM AND SO ON.

5. I have already read on this forum about the speed problems of the 9500, although EPOC was well known for handling all data much faster and more reliable than MS, being much more efficient even with slower processors. The MDAIII/XDAIII/Qtek alternatives have got an Intel 400 Mhz one, but I could never compare its real speed to that of the 9500, so advice is welcome.

9500 IS NOT SLOW. IT HAPPENS JUST AFTER THE FIRST START, OR AFTER A RESET. 9090 IS SLIGHTLY FASTER SOMETIMES, BUT NOT SO MUCH. 9500 IS FAST LIKE ALL SYMBIANS OR BETTER, TO ME.

6. Using languages and characters. Those who type only in English are quite fortunate not to have this question to answer. Although Unicode characters should have already solved the problem, I have always had compatibility problems when sending e-mails from my 9210 to several friends using the most common computers and software. I had problems with French, Spanish, Italian and Hungarian characters - they were not displayed on the receiving device in the same way as they were on mine (there was mentioned: converted from EPOC). Has anybody tried this already with the 9500? Which are the languages available on the ROM of the 9500?

LOOK AT THE NOKIA WHITE PAPER.

7. Encryption. I know that 128bit encryption is available for the 9500 with a Psiloc software. Is that available for Pocket PC?

8. Software. Is it true that there are much more freeware for downloading for Pocket PCs than for the 9500 or Symbian devices in general?

PROBABLY, BULL....IT FOR PPCS

9. Stability of the operation system. Which one is better? I remember my problems with the 9210 and have already read in this forum about some similar ones on the 9500 (and certainly about horrifying data loss with MS, too).

NO WAY 9500. 9090 IS A DAILY, MOST OF THE TIME MORE THAN ONE PER DAY, RESET...

10. Video, photo and voice recorder functionalities. Qtek seems to be here a better deal with the big screen. Can you view films in full screen mode with the 9500? What about zip capabilities?

9500 HAS A ZIP MANAGER ON CD, DO YOU WATCH MOVIES ON THE PHONE? BETTER A TV OR A LAPTOP...

11. I heard that Opera is best browser on earth for mobile devices owing to its smart rendering technology. I am not quite sure whether Qtek can compete with that, but the newest version of Pocket PC 2003 Second Edition supports the horizontal/vertical mode switching, so it seems to be more comfortable as before. I stress again that I have never had either of the devices in my hands. So please, advise.

NO WAY 9500 WINS HANDS DOWN...

12. Exporting the Favouritesí list. Is it possible from the 9500? (Desktop PCs, as far as I know, allow that.)

SURE, FAVOURITES ARE FULLY MANAGEABLE LIKE FILES

13. I read that Log functionality is much better now with the 9500. Do you know anything about that in the Qtek9090/MDAIII/XDA/I-mate?

14. City maps and GPS is available on Pocket PCs. What about the 9500?

SOON, ACTUALLY VIRTUALLY YES. WE HAVE TO CHECK

15. Do MS files retain de same format after being edited on the 9500 or do they have to be converted back to MS from Symbian?

THAT'S TRUE FOR 9090, THAT USE DIFFERENT EXT FOR OFFICE FILES

16. What about the WLAN/Wi-Fi functionality? Nokia announced that the 9500 received the certificate of the Wi-Fi Alliance. Is that not case with Qtek? Is there a difference in the reliability of the two devices in this particular function?

NO WAY, NO WAY, NO WAY BETTER ON 9500... NO WAY. 9500 OS IS A MAC OSX, 9090 IS A PC (SORRY PC USERS). STABLE, USER FRIENDLY, FUNCTIONAL, STABLE. WI-FI IS PERFECT ON 9500, HARD ON 9090. I LIVE IN A OLD 1600 HOUSE, AND THROUGH THE 70 CM. WALLS AND ON DIFFERENT FLOORS, 9500 STILL RECEIVE WI-FI. BETTER THAN COMPUTERS!

Thanks in advance for all those who spend some time of reading/answering these questions.

  #8  
Old 28-11-2004, 08:46 PM
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I should leave this to those who own, or have owned, at least on of the devices in question. However, I think I can provide answers to a few of your questions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BB333
I certainly had not not said that I did not know anything about the devices to be compared (P910i and Motorola Mpx could also be added to them).
I don't think either of those devices are directly comparable to the 9500. In fact, I don't think there exists any device quite in the same league as the Communicator.


Quote:
Does Skype or MS Messenger or other free IT-phone software run under Symbian?
No Skype (yet?). IM programs - yes.


Quote:
Those of you who have got the brand new 9500, do you think there is a difference in durability between the 9210 and its successor? Here the touchscreen and the availability of every function without opening seem to have advantages - please persuade me of the contrary.
Easy. The clam shell form factor of the Communicators offers screen protection. Another thing the design offers is easy one hand phone operation (when it's closed). Can you say the same about PPC phones? The Communicators really should have T9 on the phone side though...


Quote:
I have already read on this forum about the speed problems of the 9500, although EPOC was well known for handling all data much faster and more reliable than MS, being much more efficient even with slower processors. The MDAIII/XDAIII/Qtek alternatives have got an Intel 400 Mhz one, but I could never compare its real speed to that of the 9500, so advice is welcome.
First of all, lets just bury that old myth about the higher the clock speed - the higher the performance. Lets try to bury it for good this time. It is not about the clock speed people! There are a lot of factors like different architecture to consider rather than just clock speed.

The dual core TI OMAP 1510 CPU used in the 9500 should be on par with a XScale 400 MHz CPU for most things. The TI OMAP 1510 processor is highly optimised for use in mobile devices - to give you high performance combined with low power consumption. You can read more about it here.

Not to mention the software side of things. The software has to be optimised for the hardware. And judging by comments here about the 9500 being a bit sluggish at times, it seems that Nokia have been too sloppy with the UI design. Don't blame the processor for Nokia's sloppiness.

The same goes for 1st/3rd party applications. A well written program makes a world of difference when it comes to speed and general performance. People are often too quick to blame the CPU in these cases, while in most cases you should direct your frustration at the programmer.


Quote:
Which are the languages available on the ROM of the 9500?
That depends on regional markets. It is still not available in my country, but I would guess that it will come with Norwegian, English and Swedish or Danish languages installed - as this is the usual practise over here.


Quote:
Software. Is it true that there are much more freeware for downloading for Pocket PCs than for the 9500 or Symbian devices in general?
Yes, that is true. It is also true that PPCs have existed for many years, with dozens of devices running on the same platform. On the other hand, the 92xx is more than three years old, is only ONE (niche) device, and the 9500 has just been released. So obviously there are much more software available for Windows Mobile.


Quote:
Stability of the operation system. Which one is better? I remember my problems with the 9210 and have already read in this forum about some similar ones on the 9500 (and certainly about horrifying data loss with MS, too).
Another easy one. MS cannot beat EPOC and Symbian when it comes to stability. The "issues" you've read about the 9500 are, IMO, only nitpicks. Have a look at a IPAQ 6315 forum, and see for yourself what kind of SERIOUS issues those users have to deal with. Unlike Symbian, the Windows Mobile OS isn't optimised for telephony usage and therefore often suffers from serious connectivity issues.

Another thing is the difference in the memory used in devices operating on those two different platforms. Windows Mobile powered machines use the fast, but insecure DRAM memory. While Symbian devices use the slower, but secure Flash memory format. With Flash memory your data will stay preserved even if there is no power - unlike Windows Mobile's DRAM. This is also a reason why apps take a little longer to load up on a Symbian device. But what do you prefer? A slow loading time but secure data storage, or a fast loading time but insecure data management? For me the choice is simple.


Quote:
Video, photo and voice recorder functionalities. Qtek seems to be here a better deal with the big screen. Can you view films in full screen mode with the 9500? What about zip capabilities?
The QTEK has a bigger screen? Really? Since when did 240x320 become bigger than 640x200? The 9500 has almost twice the screen resolution of the PPC phone - no comparison. And yes, the 9500 has video, photo, voice recorder, ZIP manager and all that stuff.


Quote:
I heard that Opera is best browser on earth for mobile devices owing to its smart rendering technology. I am not quite sure whether Qtek can compete with that, but the newest version of Pocket PC 2003 Second Edition supports the horizontal/vertical mode switching
Hehe, get real. How can you compare a 320 pixels wide browsing experience to 640 pixels wide browsing experience - again, no comparison.


Quote:
14. City maps and GPS is available on Pocket PCs. What about the 9500?
I'm not sure whether or not a GPS software is available for the 9500 yet. You have to give it some time. The phone isn't even widely available yet, so don't count on all software developers to have a device to test their applications.


Quote:
Do MS files retain de same format after being edited on the 9500 or do they have to be converted back to MS from Symbian?
I believe you can save office files in MS formats, and transfer them so that they can be opened on a PC, yes. There might be some compatibility issues there though.

Sorry I couldn't answer more of your questions, unfortunately I still don't have a 9500.
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Old 30-11-2004, 09:46 PM
BB333 BB333 is offline
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Thank you all very much indeed for the valuable answers.

Further questions to fuoriporta

It is impressing the preamble, it is more convincing than everything, but please given even more reasons for your decision of selling the Qtek 9090; actually, how long did you use it?

And is that really true with the daily reset? I know someone who used MDA I, and she never complained about its instability.

I have not found in the White Paper anything relating to characters and keyboards, Unicode etc. Could you please forward a link? And could you please check the conversion of characters with accent in e-mails or faxes when sent to a device/server using other OSs?

I read in the thread 'Converting' that 9500 is not handling properly multimedia (eg video) contents. Is it also your experience (check what J2theIZZO Administrator wrote)?

Have you already exported your Favourite websites?

What does it mean that Wi-Fi was hard on 9090?

Please, don't think I am against the 9500, I am now more for that, but I want to be sure before investing such a considerable sum of money. And the fact that I can read in various threads about problems of the 9500 in handling even messages, especially when opening them, is quite discouraging as I remember well when, back in October 2001, I had to exchange my 9210 three times with T-Mobile, and even after that I have always had software problems we all know.

To Raven:

According to the specifications Qtek9090 - except the keyboard - has all the capabilities that the 9500 has; moreover, is quadband, has touchscreen (is more natural than typing, even though I admit it is slower to write anything in handwriting and less confortable with the small keyboard on the screen or with the thumb-keypad.

I don't blame anything on the processor or on Nokia but I'd like to know, with my concerns of above, whether - if you take into account all the advantages of the processor, the OS and the flash memory use - the actual speed of the 9500 is higher or lower than that of the Qtek (of which some say it reacts instantaneously to all commands).

I agree the resolution is better with the 9500 but for video recording, streaming, MMS and multimedia contacts the direct access of the Qtek (without having to open the 'clamshell' all the time) seems to be more advantageous. And Qtek is sold with a leather case and stereo headphone.

I am otherwise quite horryfied by all the problems I read in the various threads, but I know already what you will say (I should visit a PPC site to see the amount of problems they have:-). However, I have got the confidence that Nokia will sort them out. In the meantime, please tell me of other advantages of the 9500 and disadvantages (but also advantages) of the Qtek.

Thanks is advance.

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Old 17-04-2005, 10:55 PM
yosemitesamiam yosemitesamiam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB333
Thank you all very much indeed for the valuable answers.

Further questions to fuoriporta

It is impressing the preamble, it is more convincing than everything, but please given even more reasons for your decision of selling the Qtek 9090; actually, how long did you use it?

And is that really true with the daily reset? I know someone who used MDA I, and she never complained about its instability.

I have not found in the White Paper anything relating to characters and keyboards, Unicode etc. Could you please forward a link? And could you please check the conversion of characters with accent in e-mails or faxes when sent to a device/server using other OSs?

I read in the thread 'Converting' that 9500 is not handling properly multimedia (eg video) contents. Is it also your experience (check what J2theIZZO Administrator wrote)?

Have you already exported your Favourite websites?

What does it mean that Wi-Fi was hard on 9090?

Please, don't think I am against the 9500, I am now more for that, but I want to be sure before investing such a considerable sum of money. And the fact that I can read in various threads about problems of the 9500 in handling even messages, especially when opening them, is quite discouraging as I remember well when, back in October 2001, I had to exchange my 9210 three times with T-Mobile, and even after that I have always had software problems we all know.

To Raven:

According to the specifications Qtek9090 - except the keyboard - has all the capabilities that the 9500 has; moreover, is quadband, has touchscreen (is more natural than typing, even though I admit it is slower to write anything in handwriting and less confortable with the small keyboard on the screen or with the thumb-keypad.

I don't blame anything on the processor or on Nokia but I'd like to know, with my concerns of above, whether - if you take into account all the advantages of the processor, the OS and the flash memory use - the actual speed of the 9500 is higher or lower than that of the Qtek (of which some say it reacts instantaneously to all commands).

I agree the resolution is better with the 9500 but for video recording, streaming, MMS and multimedia contacts the direct access of the Qtek (without having to open the 'clamshell' all the time) seems to be more advantageous. And Qtek is sold with a leather case and stereo headphone.

I am otherwise quite horryfied by all the problems I read in the various threads, but I know already what you will say (I should visit a PPC site to see the amount of problems they have:-). However, I have got the confidence that Nokia will sort them out. In the meantime, please tell me of other advantages of the 9500 and disadvantages (but also advantages) of the Qtek.

Thanks is advance.
OK...I cannot sit idly by any longer...I must register and put my nickel's worth in.

First off, I own an iMate PDA2k...same unit we have been discussing here. I have owned the unit for 6 months now...almost exactly to the day. I was the first in California to have one.

That said, my life is a miserable wreck right now. I am constantly having to reboot, and I don't just mean the usual 5x per day soft reset...I mean, I have to, 3 times at least per week, hard reset the thing. This is followed up by then having to reinstall all my software programs, and reload from a backup file all my contacts, appointments, etc. This is consistantly a 1/2 hour to 45 minute fiasco. How unsure of this phone system am I you ask? So unsure that every time I add a new contact, etc, I back it up (which takes a couple minutes of non-use)!!

All in all, I'm very angry at myself, honestly. I am a Macintosh loyalist...I love OS X for its stability, and have 10.4 (Tiger) on order already. Mac, to me, was very unstable before OS X...now that it uses UNIX as a base, it is awesome. I'm angry at myself for this very reason...what the HELL was I thinking about when I bought a Microsoft operated phone? Was I expecting anything different from Microsoft on this one? Windows Mobile 2003 SE is truly the worst OS they have ever written for stability (well...maybe Win ME is slightly worse).

I'm not trying to bash, just vent in my $780 frustration over this phone. Yes, it has some really cool gizmos...landscapable screen, quad band GSM, sliding screen to hide keyboard, blah, blah, blah. I've used the landscape mode a few times...mostly just to show off. I've used one band of GSM (1900), and I've used the keyboard a lot. I've never really used the office programs...I've used the mail program once. It was a pain in the @ss to setup, and I don't want to go through it again and again and again and again every time the phone has to be hard reset.

As for the PIM features...I think most $100 and up cell phones have that now...so why compare.

As for the speed of programs opening/closing, etc...this phone isn't as instant as people say all the time. It has major moments where it takes a good 30 seconds to open a program.

Someone here taught me a valuable lesson today. I had no idea that some phones are RAM and some are flash. For the very reason that Microsoft is so buggy and unstable, they should never think of using anything BUT flash memory...that way it would not be such an issue to restart. And for this very reason, I will probably buy the 9500 right now.

Then there is Bluetooth. No one has mentioned this problem. The MDA, XDA, iMate, blah blah blah phones suck at bluetooth. I don't know why, I don't want to know why. Have I tried to correct it? You bet. I've tried different ROM builds and Bluetooth stacks. Tried them all...so has iMate. Another place to go is clubimate.com for research into this.

Am I an angry PDA2k owner...you bet! I spent a lot of money on this thing...including software and accessories. Will I ditch it in a second...oh yes. There will be a new PDA2k listing on eBay with a buy it now feature of $500 for anyone who wants it. I will be selling it with 2 Piel Frama cases and Microsoft Voice Command (since Microsoft doesn't think enough of us users to give it away).

I'm stepping off my soapbox now.
 

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