All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #46  
Old 12-06-2008, 06:58 PM
Menneisyys Menneisyys is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Frain View Post
Steve, are you seriously trying to argue that the N95 8GB is employing an incredibly sophisticated JPEG compressor that can crunch an image to that size (500-900K) without compromising quality? If so I suggest they outsource it to Canon and Nikon...
You're right - I've thoroughly scrutinized the output of the JPEG encoder, the (lack of) different quality settings. It indeed uses pretty much compression.

I haven't really noticed this before because I didn't look at the results on the pixel level - when printed as a 4x6 pic, the output of the N95 is still excellent and the heavy JPEG compression, IMHO, is barely visible (if at all). The N95 is the first phone I can really depend on and don't feel I need to take my IXUS 960 IS (SD950 IS) with me everywhere.

I hope Nokia comes up with an additional quality level setting - or a third-party camera app is released, with an alternative JPEG encoder. (Which was, BTW, the case with Windows Mobile and CECam - see http://forum.brighthand.com/showthread.php?t=212709 if interested for more info on the very similar problems plaguing some past WinMo models.)

Last edited by Menneisyys; 12-06-2008 at 07:01 PM.

  #47  
Old 12-06-2008, 07:02 PM
Menneisyys Menneisyys is offline
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Originally Posted by Ben Frain View Post
You're kidding right? Using the default parameters a 5MP image from the N95 8GB is saved on the N95 8GB at around 500-900K? I don't know what you define as 'big' amounts of compression but if you are happy with that you may want to get down to specsavers...

I have a compact 3.2MP Pentax that produces images around 3-4MB and my SLR's start with JPEGS around the 6MP mark. 500-900K is unusable for any serious work. Which therefore relegates it to being 'just for kicks' like the iPhones. I'm not defending the iPhone camera because it is pants. I'm just saying the N95 8GB implementation needs a lot of work.
You're right - I haven't really checked the output filesizes of the camera.

  #48  
Old 12-06-2008, 08:25 PM
RogerPodacter RogerPodacter is offline
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you are incorrect. on ATT the n95 is considered a regular phone, which only needs the 15 dollar unlimited data plan. i've been using it forever along with everyone else with an n95. and the n95 is not subsidized like the new iphone. so its not a comparison you should make. i can go to los angeles and find an import shop, get an n95 for 150USD with new ATT service. so now how does that stack up against the new iphone in terms of price?

  #49  
Old 12-06-2008, 11:26 PM
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As a long time Nokia phone user and one of the first owners of a N95 in Finland, I have to agree with some of the above comments that the Apple iPhone is the better overall device when it comes to sheer joy of simply USING the damn thing.

Especially the comment above of "random applications that don't really work together" is spot on! Symbian on N and E series is a nightmare to navigate. Incredibly clumsy.

The devil is in the details. How fast applications load and how smooth really does matter when you consider the overall experience! There are NO glitches when switching apps in the iPhone, compared to N95 for instance which reminds me of old computers where screens "glitch" and show random colors when starting applications.

However, I was severely disappointed by the incredibly bad camera on the iPhone 3G. I use the camera and especially the video recording functions on the N95 all the time. Every single day! They are very important to me as I do not want to carry an extra camera with me all the time. The N95 picture/video quality is enough for every day snapshots that you even dare to publish online and in print!

Bottom line for me: When apple makes an iPhone with a good camera/video recording at 30fps, 640x480, then I'll buy, immediately and never look back! However, for the time being, I will have to make do with the N95.

Cheers!
ns

  #50  
Old 13-06-2008, 07:25 AM
Ben Frain Ben Frain is offline
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Just thought of a big one in favour of the N95 8GB if you have any concerns over long term radiation and cell damage from phones: SAR rating. Whilst the N95 8GB is something like 0.79, the iPhone 3G is 1.4! Very high in comparison (yes, I know that isn't a perfect measurement of likely radiation absorption but it is the only comparable data we have at present)
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  #51  
Old 13-06-2008, 09:21 AM
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Exclamation Frank

I had a E-61 and I had no trouble configuring it. Anyway the bottom line is taht the N95 8GB is far more better, very manly and a hardy phone than the iphone. My wife uses an iphone and yes it looks good but thats about it. I find the iphone to be very inpractical and ladylike, I use almost all the features on my N95 8GB appart from GPS on a daily basis and I don't have a sigle complain appart from the batteryy life.

Frank stop writing programmes especially for mobile phones, sorry mate I don't think you're any good at it as I had no trouble configuring mine at all as I mentioned earlier.
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  #52  
Old 13-06-2008, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerPodacter View Post
you are incorrect. on ATT the n95 is considered a regular phone, which only needs the 15 dollar unlimited data plan. i've been using it forever along with everyone else with an n95. and the n95 is not subsidized like the new iphone. so its not a comparison you should make. i can go to los angeles and find an import shop, get an n95 for 150USD with new ATT service. so now how does that stack up against the new iphone in terms of price?
While you are right, the N95 is not subsidized, that is the point. The original article compared the subsidized prices in Europe, but the N95 is far more expensive in the US. Sadly, your idea for an import still falls short, because the import N95 do not have US 3G. I am not going to bother with a smart phone if it means going back to Edge. I liked my 9300, but the speed was an issue.

I used to have the same $15 data plan, when I had my 9300. It's a nice deal. Unfortunately, when I tried to get another smart phone last weekend, I found that it is no longer available. You can keep it if you already have it, but getting a data plan now your only options are a regular data plan for $30 or one with tethering for $60.

I should note the original post about the price differences was wrong about the data plan prices. The plan for non-iphones is listed as $35, but that is without a voice plan. With a voice plan, it is $30, same as the iPhone. So, the price difference is ONLY $550 more for the n95-8GB.

Jack

  #53  
Old 13-06-2008, 04:58 PM
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I definately won't be buying a 3G iphone, and it's partly because of specs, but mainly because of restrictions.
i) I don't want to use iTunes as my music library
ii) I don't want to be tied to one network operator
iii) I don't want to be tied to a long contract
iv) I don't want to buy a bluetooth device only to find it's functions have been crippled

I know some of these things can be fixed by jailbreaking, but who wants a very expensive device with no warranty?
As long as Jobs keeps trying to force me to do things his way, he won't make a penny out of me. Apple seem to have very little regard for their customers (charging for firmware updates?) while Nokia with their Comes With Music have found a great marketing tool as well as a way of rewarding loyalty. Can anyone imagine Apple giving a year's free iTunes downloads with every iPhone/iPod? It'll never happen...

  #54  
Old 13-06-2008, 05:36 PM
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did you find out how many times a N95 crashes compared to an iphone?

Im about 4 seconds faster than my N95 8Gb, its so annoying.

Nokia arent innovating, i see a new N-series phone, try it out, oh wait, its EXACTLY the same phone but in a different shell, i liked sony ericsson because every new k-series phone you got some great new stuff.

Jesus christ nokia maps is really bad compared to google mobile maps. i dont know how google can make a better java app then nokia but they have done it

And what is the point of the flick out music bit? By the time i go from looking at a picture to trying to play a track ive lost interest

  #55  
Old 14-06-2008, 04:23 PM
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Fuctionality

First, I have to agree with all Iphone defenders – phone’s interface, speed, multitouch are incredible comparing to all devices we have on market. Not by chance, WM users try to mimic, Linux users try to mimic and eventually everyone will get there. BUT I just can’t (even on a new Iphone) do things, which I do on my n95. Therefore, I do not care about interface. In addition, here is the catch. As was said before, many people get Smartphones with contract for free and even don’t know what they have in their hands. So, I meet those on work, among relatives, in friends circle. Occasionally they see as I literally speak sms to my phone or by using fring my bills are much, much smaller then theirs, etc, etc. At the end they ask – “how is that, I want it, teach me, send me etc, etc”. I repeat, most of those things you just cannot do even on hacked Iphone, so the verdict is obvious. Mike

  #56  
Old 14-06-2008, 10:43 PM
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its all about software

I think the iPhone 3G is more of a software play than a hardware one. Nokia is selling the N95 based on features which is the traditional way of doing it, Apple iPhone markets the 3G iPhone by selling the user-experience. Quantitative vs. qualitative.
I see the 3G iPhone as being more of being an anti-RIM than an anti-Nokia because its aiming at the corporate users.

-- Igor Roth

  #57  
Old 15-06-2008, 09:34 AM
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I don't have an iPhone, but I do have an iPod Touch, and en E90. The interface on the Touch is streets ahead of anything else I have used, but the Touch (and therefore the iPhone) is limited by the many things that it can't do.

Someone referred to the iPhone's fast switching between apps. While that is also true of the Touch, it is hardly multi-tasking when many, if not most, apps shut when they are sent to the background. An example; you start editing a contact, switch to another app, come back to Contacts, and the edit screen has closed. This is exactly how UIQ2 used to work, and it's a pain in the ****. If I do the same thing on my E90, wheneverI go back into an app, it's usually (not always, I grant you that) as I left it; much more user-friendly.

Another issue which apple have not yet sorted out is the random date/time bug. Connect an iPhone/iPT to a Windows PC which has come out of hibernation, and just watch iTunes change the date and time on your device change to something random. I don't use my iPT as a PDA, so it's not a problem for me (just very irritating), but if you do intend to use your shiny apple hardware as your main agenda, this bug becomes fairly serious.

I personally think the iPhone is a great piece of hardware, and apple have got many things right with it, but they have got some way to go before they catch up with the likes of Nokia in the all-round smartphone stakes. Maybe that's not what apple intend to do, which is fine, but comparing an iPhone with an N95 is like comparing apples with pears (no pun intended!!)....

  #58  
Old 17-06-2008, 01:25 AM
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"Because what Apple are good at doing is aiming at the masses and creating brand loyalty. The overall compelling experience of using an iPhone if you look at it from the standpoint of Mr. and Mrs. Average is much higher than an N95."
No, what apple is good at is marketing. If nokia put up the same kind of money to market the n95, no one would be talking about the iphone.

  #59  
Old 19-06-2008, 03:17 PM
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Thanks for the comparison - the use of 'awesome' doesn't bother me as I have an original N95 and it would be fair to say that the camera is indeed 'awesome'. Equally though, it is fair to say that it is annoyingly slow to activate and configure to your required needs. I've loved having the N95, but in truth I've done little with it. Being able to download 3rd party apps that geotag your photos and then allow you to post directly to Flickr wasn't a selling point for me - quite simply the 5MP camera is what did it. Can you imagine how amazed and astounded I was when I got the thing home and found out how many other wonderful additional features it had that I didn't know about. I was over-the-moon - I'd struck phone gold!!

Ah, but that's not the end of the story. Browsing on the N95 really bugs the hell out of me - move right to login to a site, move left to see the side menu, move right again to see the main content - grr and argh! Frustration in the extreme. It's nice that the N95 can do these things but it doesn't do them in a way that feels like a happy experience - it feels like hard work. I work in the IT field and should be more tolerant than this and should appreciate the capabilities of the device, but I don't, I just can't be bothered most of the time - much like Ben Frain (above).

The menu structure on the S60 is really, really bad - come on, lets face it, it's deep and non-intuitive and slow. Where are you going to find the calculator? - in the 'Applications' folder or the 'Office' folder? Tedium in the extreme. Just how slow is that 'Gallery' to load - even with a hotkey. Don't get me wrong - I really do love my N95. I could have gotten the original iPhone, but noone with half a brain buys a new version of Windows until SP1 is released (unless they're stuffed having to buy a new PC and Vista is already on it of course) - same principle applies here in my mind.

If I do get the iPhone 3G I think the only things that will bother me are:

1) No video recording (Could this change through software changes? idk tbh)
2) Can't link using bluetooth (but how often do you do that really anyway?)
3) Can't send MMS messages unless VGA something or other ... ( so actually, it can be done - are you sending to another person with the same quality of screen as you or is it smaller? )

Bonuses of iPhone 3G, imho:

1) O2 data plans include 'unlimited' downloads now - same for any browsing phone tbh, but not all can do YouTube, iPlayer and more in the future I'm sure.
2) Simplicity of use - this is huge!! So many more people will be able to do things they just can't be 4r53d doing on things like the N95.
3) [compared to iPhone original] - much more reasonably priced!!

Betwixed-and-between issues:

1) The battery - but then I've never needed a new battery before I've gotten a new phone, so really this issue is mute for me.
2) I like the idea of drinking coffee whilst using the phone - seriously though, while you tilt the cup to your face to take a drink, are you really raising your other arm up so you can see the screen of your N95 to make sure you're selecting the correct contact from your contacts list? A little bit of an insane point if you don't mind me saying so. I text with 2 hands on the N95 right now (for speed) - so what's the difference?

I hope I've helped others rationalise this - the iPhone 3G does sound quite good.
If you don't mind putting a bit of effort into bending things to your will then I'd say you probably still want the N95.
If you want something a little different, maybe lacking one or two things but what it does it does really well, then I'd say you probably want the iPhone 3G.

Nothing can be all things to all men (or women for that matter).

Regards,

Zanzizi

  #60  
Old 21-06-2008, 11:09 AM
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The two phone cant be really compared i Think. The iPhone just came out some years ago as Apples first phone. They are still in the middle of gettting everything onto it that people want. And they are really doing it. The Nokia has a lot slower processor then the iPhone does. I think the difference is 200Mhz. Since the iphone has a 630Mhz and the Nokia a 400Mhz processor. The iPhone has bigger screen, multi touch and a LOT of sodtware and great 3D games to come if you have seen the Keynote. The only thing the Nokia is completly better is the Camera. Thats sure. Thats only my opinion of course :]
 

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