All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #16  
Old 23-06-2009, 03:49 AM
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the n82 the darknight is here to stay..n82 still has the best captures in the dark..if they would have put in a xenon plus led for video recording noting can beat n86..but i guess i will hope for nokia to make 1..

  #17  
Old 23-06-2009, 04:09 AM
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Once you read it I hope you will know that there is just no way to stick that cap into any of the new slim phones...
Did you see me asking for a thin phone? All I asked for was Xenon.

S60 fans have always been used to oversized bricks and don't really care for girly razor thin phones. I think this is a classic case of missing customer focus. Nokia has enough bandwidth to release separate devices for all customer segments. Great you've released a multimedia computer for the mass market in the guise of N97. Now its time for you to release a multimedia computer for S60 fans, one that has a bigger processor, more ram, better sound quality and ofcourse Xenon.
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  #18  
Old 23-06-2009, 04:47 AM
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Talking

another winning article for N86 it is no doubt the best camera phone at the moment and deserves to be called the N82 upgrade..

maybe you could also compare video capture between the 4 phones
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  #19  
Old 23-06-2009, 05:38 AM
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Thanks a lot for the comparison Rafe. You have done a wonderful job here in showing the strengths and weaknesses of all these devices.

Can you please add some snaps of people as requested by the other posters?

And I agree that the n86 is producing lovely pictures. Only thing that is bothering me is that bluish tingle of the LED Flash in the picture of the car. But like you said, that's an extreme case and will come up not that frequently.

  #20  
Old 23-06-2009, 05:46 AM
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Rafe, for the car and chair in the dark, you use automatic scene or you use night scene, because it does make quite a lot of difference, tq

  #21  
Old 23-06-2009, 06:30 AM
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To answer the question about shooting people, Rafe and I haven't shot 'social' scenes yet because we can't shoot each other easily (too far apart) and we really don't want to shoot our non-geek family and friends (who'd hate to be up on the net for all to see).

Anyone here own an N86 and have an active night life in a place where it's acceptable to take photos? Or have 20-something friends who don't care about being photographed? Feel free to submit more samples to Rafe or myself.
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  #22  
Old 23-06-2009, 08:10 AM
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The dual Led of N86 itīs a desillusion, as expected... Without a Xenon flash itīs not possible to have a great all situation camera.

  #23  
Old 23-06-2009, 08:15 AM
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Some N86 disadvantages

Hi Rafe,

thans for review. I agree with that Nokia N86 8MP is a very good camera so I will buy it. But at this moment, I must say that pictures from N86 are not good as they could be. It looks like a big compression in jpegs so details are missing. In the comparison with i8510 I think that i8510 takes a better shots (sharper) and in more cases better color submission. N86 take colors in hot spectrum, but i8510 in more realistic cold spectrum. I hope that next few firmware releases will patch this disadvantages in N86. It does not change the fact that N86 8MP is the best non-touch screen smartphone ever.

JKA

  #24  
Old 23-06-2009, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by viipottaja View Post
Obviously, N82 is still better but not quite as big a margin as I would have guessed.
Why? Because of Xenon? I think you should wait until you see further comparisons in low light between N86 and N82, I think you'll be surprised. Yes, from a freezing the subject perspective xenon will always be better than LED but I wonder out of all the pictures you have on your PC's hard drive how many are taken with flash?

  #25  
Old 23-06-2009, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by viipottaja View Post
Thanks Rafe! Really appreciate that. And indeed, quite interesting results. I was expecting the N86 to do ok, but am still very suprised to see it perform that well. Obviously, N82 is still better but not quite as big a margin as I would have guessed.
Agree, N82 is superior on inside photos, where the Xenon flash do the good job.
But the market go tell if Nokia itīs on right track, and I think they donīt, and the declining of market share itīs a consequence!

  #26  
Old 23-06-2009, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JKA View Post
Hi Rafe,

thans for review. I agree with that Nokia N86 8MP is a very good camera so I will buy it. But at this moment, I must say that pictures from N86 are not good as they could be. It looks like a big compression in jpegs so details are missing. In the comparison with i8510 I think that i8510 takes a better shots (sharper) and in more cases better color submission. N86 take colors in hot spectrum, but i8510 in more realistic cold spectrum. I hope that next few firmware releases will patch this disadvantages in N86. It does not change the fact that N86 8MP is the best non-touch screen smartphone ever.

JKA
This is a very subjective area.

We deliberately prioritised vibrant colour BUT which is still true to your minds eye. Some products acheive vibrancy but can end up with completely false colour reproduction.

In the tests we conducted we found colour to be more consistent than comparable devices.

There are trade-offs involved here unfortuntaely but at this point in time we will continue to prioritise colour reproduction. We are though looking at those situations where we could improve the consistency even further and are therefore viewing as many shots as we can that are in the public domain captured with the N86.

In testing we shot over 15k images and continue to capture images now, so we're always checking if we could make improvements, but there are limits and sometimes whilst I would of course love to, we simply can't make everyone happy. Of course, my hope is that improvements we may make in the future will make you even happier with the N86 :-)

  #27  
Old 23-06-2009, 10:27 AM
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This discussion is like arguing about the best handling SUV or off-roader for a track day race! It's very nice that SUV's handle better, corner flatter over time just as modern mobile phone cameras perform better over time but, just as no-one would bring an SUV to a race track and expect to finish anywhere other than last, all of the phones here would come last behind any modern digital point and shoot that costs less than half the price.

To put it another way, comparing LED, Xenon, apertures, mechanical shutters and sensor quality on mobile phones is like amateur astronomers discussing which which brand of toilet roll tube is best for stargazing!

Buy an IXUS or equivalent if you care about quality and use the ever improving camera phones for random sunny day shots! Digital point and shoots also take far superior videos.

If you really enjoy photography (enough say to pore through pointless camera phone articles) try a consumer grade DSLR.

A simple guide to camera quality - look at the size of the damn optics

  #28  
Old 23-06-2009, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cb474 View Post
Rafe,

I felt that the i8510 often had what seems like the most realistic (lower contrast, lower saturation) images. I think this may be why the i8510 struggles, as it were, with the sky.

cb474
hmm interesting view. I think if you look closer at the Samsung images you may find something interesting in this regard.

It would appear that Samsung are running with a high contrast setting. This is why they stuggle with the sky and if you look in the shadow areas, typically there is little detail in comparison with the N86, in other words the details are blocked out. Typically this is a trick used to create a *perception* of sharper images. Whilst it works well the trade off is washed out highlights and blocked out shadows.

  #29  
Old 23-06-2009, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by banks View Post
rafe, i always hear that firmware updates improve camera performance and it does (it certainly did on my n96) but nokia are using the same camera modules and sensors in these devices, what is stopping them from using an already good algorithm on another device using the same camera and flash hardware then it would be good out of the box, right?
If only it was this simple.

In the case of the N86, the sensor, shutter, optics, aperture mechanism, flash and image processor and most of the algorithms are all new :-) Not forgetting improvements in SW processes to improve shotoing latencies.

It takes many many months of continuous shooting to tune such cameras, so it's no 5 minute job, although many wish it was ;-)

  #30  
Old 23-06-2009, 11:12 AM
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N82 has the edge with xenon flash

There's really a difference when it's a xenon flash and a LED or dual LED flash when it comes to taking pictures on dark places. So N82 is a better pick, aside from it's more affordable than N86 and has a better camera lens cover.
 

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8mp, camera, group, i8510, n82, n86, n97, nokia, samsung, test

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