All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

  #46  
Old 26-05-2009, 03:00 PM
svdwal svdwal is offline
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not sure what everyone else thinks but i think ovi store is doomed to fail. not because of the speed and stability issues just now(which are to be expected) but due to the ultra expensive prices. there is no way i will pay 6 for a rubbish java game or 3 for a theme or ringtone. when these are all to be had for free online. in the current financial climate these prices are extortionate. now i dont really agree with pirated or hacked games and gave up on these when using my iphone as i thought the pricing structure on the app store was very fair , on the app store u usually know that if you are paying 5 or 6 for a game it is definatly going to be worth it. but it will take something special for me to pay the current prices on ovi. hopefully this will get better with time when more content and therfore more competion is on the store.

grr noki another letdown
This is not Nokia's fault. Developers are free to set their own price point.

Whether prices will come down to App Store levels remain to be seen. The main problem here is operator billing. This is very expensive. First there's VAT at 20%, then operator billing at 60%, then the revenue share at 30%. So for an app that costs EUR 1,

1) subtract 20% VAT of 1.00 = 0.80, 0.20 goes to the government
2) subtract 60% operator billing of 0.80 = 0.32, 0.48 goes to the operator
3) subtract 30% revenue share of 0.32 = 0.22, 0.10 goes to Nokia

Compare this to credit card billing

1) subtract 20% VAT of 1.00 = 0.80, 0.20 goes to the government
2) subtract 30% revenue share of 0.80 = 0.56, 0.24 goes to Nokia

Compare this to App Store

1) subtract 30% revenue share of 1.00 = 0.70, 0.30 goes to Apple

For the developer to make as much on Ovi as on App Store per sale, prices need to be three to four times times as high.

  #47  
Old 26-05-2009, 03:00 PM
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abruenin abruenin is offline
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Originally Posted by Bosambo View Post
So as usual T-Mobile are blocking handset owners from certain features? Typical. I couldn't use N-Gage for almost a year because T-Mobile blocked the ports.
But Download! works here (Germany, TMO) in general, so it might not be a port issue. I can still download via Download!, but I just do no see the Ovi Store Icon.

It is just refreshing the catalogue and then the Ovi Store Icon should be on the first level? Or is it hidden somewhere?
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  #48  
Old 26-05-2009, 03:02 PM
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abruenin abruenin is offline
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
i have a nokia 5800(silver) on orange and i havn't got the ovi store on my phone yet!! :(
Same here (5800 blue), but others do have Ovi store on the 5800, so it is not just phone dependent.

  #49  
Old 26-05-2009, 03:05 PM
NickAnstee NickAnstee is offline
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I can't believe Nokia would release this rubbish, particularly after they have seen Apple's App Store and should know where to pitch it in terms of the competition!! The user experience is poor compared to the iPhone, I can't even find a way of searching? The text is too small on the Internal screen of my E90 but better on the smaller External screen, I prefer the old Download! format. There is nothing new in terms of Applications and the user interface makes you even less inclined to actually purchase anything!!

  #50  
Old 26-05-2009, 03:12 PM
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@svdwal

ok thanks for making me aware of that although vat is currently at 15% i undestand the point you were making. but surely nokia have done there own calculations and would have known that to truly compete with the app store similar pricing would be necessary and achievable?! maybe nokia could come to some sort of agreement to bring down the charge for operator billing as 60% is extremely high even for the greedy british operators

  #51  
Old 26-05-2009, 03:14 PM
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At least they fixed the performance issues, so the web based ovi store is usable, but still slow. I have been able to buy Spore Origins via the web store ...

  #52  
Old 26-05-2009, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by svdwal View Post

1) subtract 20% VAT of 1.00 = 0.80, 0.20 goes to the government
2) subtract 60% operator billing of 0.80 = 0.32, 0.48 goes to the operator
3) subtract 30% revenue share of 0.32 = 0.22, 0.10 goes to Nokia

Compare this to credit card billing

1) subtract 20% VAT of 1.00 = 0.80, 0.20 goes to the government
2) subtract 30% revenue share of 0.80 = 0.56, 0.24 goes to Nokia

Compare this to App Store

1) subtract 30% revenue share of 1.00 = 0.70, 0.30 goes to Apple
So, App store doesn't pay taxes.

Or am I missing something? At least the iTunes musicstore prices include VAT.

  #53  
Old 26-05-2009, 03:40 PM
nparayo nparayo is offline
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Nokia N82 on Orange UK, Ovi not showing up in download yet.

  #54  
Old 26-05-2009, 03:48 PM
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Better but still poor

A quick update on my previous post:

After the fourth attempt - yes, that's four attempts, how many non-geeks would bother, Nokia!? - the Ovi Store app finally installed and ran correctly.

Unfortunately, I've been experiencing exactly what everyone else has been reporting ever since: slow response times, a very poor user experience and very poor design.

It's incredible - like too much of what's coming out of the doors at Espoo recently, it's as if they never asked anyone to try it before they released it. Get a dozen of us in a room for a day or two and we could have offered a list of most of the big things they needed to fix. Nokia, suggestion: next time, how about doing that BEFORE you make the product / service available to the public?

  #55  
Old 26-05-2009, 04:21 PM
Hooksym Hooksym is offline
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So, someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it appears:

1. You cannot use wifi to connect to the OVI store.

2. Even if you go to the Ovi store on your laptop, you cannot download apps, you can only send them to the phone.

Does anyone know if the Ovvi Desktop offers a local download option?

If the above is true and the OVI desktop offers no options, I am only going to be using the store if I have no choice. I will be using it instead as a catalog to identify an app and then go to the developer to see if I can get it there or in some other online source.

  #56  
Old 26-05-2009, 04:26 PM
svdwal svdwal is offline
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
So, App store doesn't pay taxes.

Or am I missing something? At least the iTunes musicstore prices include VAT.
Sales tax/VAT is not handled before the 30/70 revenue share deal between Apple and the developer. I looked at my App Store revenue share report and there is just the 30/70 percent share. There's also no mention of VAT on the invoice. That means, I think', that the sales tax/VAT is coming from Apple's 30% share.

Income tax however is deducted separately, but only if you do not sign the necessary paperwork, tax agreements between countries and all that.

Last edited by svdwal; 26-05-2009 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Added sentence on invoice

  #57  
Old 26-05-2009, 04:39 PM
svdwal svdwal is offline
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
@svdwal

ok thanks for making me aware of that although vat is currently at 15% i undestand the point you were making. but surely nokia have done there own calculations and would have known that to truly compete with the app store similar pricing would be necessary and achievable?! maybe nokia could come to some sort of agreement to bring down the charge for operator billing as 60% is extremely high even for the greedy british operators
VAT in Britain is 15%, but Ovi is probably legally hosted in Finland, and in Finland VAT is 22%. So the actual calculations are a bit worse than for 20% VAT, which is the EU average.

Nokia can set prices, as any shop owner can set their own prices, but then Nokia would be forced to make agreements with all content providers to buy at "wholesale prices". That's going to take lots of time. Further, ISV's must honor older contracts with other resellers such as Nokia Software Market, and it is possible that these contracts forbid ISV's to have different retail prices.

Anyway, having the Ovi Store up and running is half the battle, making it more competitive and worthwhile for ISV's is the other half.

  #58  
Old 26-05-2009, 04:39 PM
GingerYellow GingerYellow is offline
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Well, it seems to work fine for me on my UK, 3 branded N95 8GB. A little slow, but better than Download!. In fact, that pretty much sums the whole thing up - a bit better than Download!. As others have said, the app selection is uninspiring to anyone who's familiar with S60 software, and the prices are steep compared to App Store. So I'd say Nokia have their work cut out for them. That said, I think this is aimed less at the sort of people who post on AAS than the mainstream consumer who can't afford an iPhone but wants to buy stuff on their phone. Maybe it will appeal to them.

  #59  
Old 26-05-2009, 05:31 PM
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My 5800 on Orange UK is still not showing Ovi Store in Download!

its so typical of Orange, they dont release new firmware untill like 3 months after every other network.
( Orange's Red 5800 is still running V11 :| )

so yeh, and at the end of the day WTF at the pricing, 22.00 to download a dictionary, holly crap. even most of the free applications on the developers websites are now like 8.00. haha Nokia seriously need to sort this heap of junk out soon.
They are FAR FAR behind the App Store (even when the app store was first released)

i've found a good article from the nokiapp guys on what is wrong with the Ovi Store. it's a good & funny read at that: http://nokiapp.com/2009/05/26/first-...the-ovi-store/

  #60  
Old 26-05-2009, 06:37 PM
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I had to reboot

I've got a voda v20 blue 5800, and I wasn't seeing anything in download all day either. I read somewhere about rebooting and then trying again - what do you know, it worked!

Can't get it to log in with my nokia account though, will keep trying.

When the access point options pop up on the 5800, if you select options->select access point, you can choose more than the list it initially gives you.
 

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