All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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Old 30-04-2010, 05:29 PM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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Q1 2010 figures in for smartphones and phones

Always of interest are the quarterly stats summaries from the market analysts. The first figures are in, with Nokia and Apple making gains at the expense of 'others' in the smartphone world, and with Nokia losing out slightly in the battle for generic 'phones'. More info below.

Read on in the full article.

  #2  
Old 30-04-2010, 08:25 PM
kevwright kevwright is offline
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Is it Telling though Steve, I myself often quote Apple figures as you know, so I guess I am as guilty as anyone, but when you can buy a 5230 for 79 as you can at CPW right now, and I assume this is part of Nokia Smartphone count, how relevant are the percentages?

Actually, that sounds silly, the percentages are clearly fine. What I mean to say is, the 40% is not that relevant with all the cheapies in there?


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Last edited by kevwright; 30-04-2010 at 08:43 PM. Reason: Sounded silly!

  #3  
Old 30-04-2010, 08:51 PM
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Fair point Kev, but I think you can say that about any set of stats. With smartphone stats there are always going to be ifs, buts and definition issues. There clearly different stratigraphy within the smartphone space... but you can argue as apps and services becomes important sources of revenue that the lower end is just as important (perhaps more so, given volume) as high end (when the bigger margins are on hardware).

I think the number also say something to those who would write Nokia off or underplay their significance. There's more the one way to do business in the smartphone market.

You can make a similar argument about usage - i.e. what do people use their phone for. I guess you just have to take these things in context.
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:29 AM
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Yeah, but Rafe, look at Nokia's trend line. They still lead in overall share, but that number has now been steadily sliding for about three years.

In fact, if those trends hold, RIM is going to catch Nokia within the next two years and pull even.

It's not a surprise, as per all the news reports, including Reuters, that are reporting the company might be forcing OPK out the door, due to irate shareholders. The stock price has cratered from >$40 to $12.

Last edited by Jimmy1; 01-05-2010 at 03:38 AM.

  #5  
Old 01-05-2010, 08:14 AM
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I would expect Nokia share to be slipping because only 4 years ago they only had a very poor windows phone competitor. Now more players are entering the market, more OS platforms and even more manufacturers.

Forget the price, it's only functionality that really matters. The fact that Nokia can sell a phone with that much capability (much more capable than an N70 which nobody ever argued about its status and cost a fortune) for that low a price is a sign of their strength and ability. You can't just discount those phones because the other companies can't compete with them. Nokia can sell powerful phones for low cost and that is why they are strong.

  #6  
Old 01-05-2010, 08:18 AM
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Somebody's not really looking at the graph properly. Nokia's share dropped significantly between Q3 2007 and Q3 2008, due to the disruptive introduction of the iPhone (and to a lesser extent, Android). Since then their marketshare has waved around a bit, but is actually up ever so slightly YoY.

RIM have seen consistent growth since Q3 2007 (and well done to them for that, but if they grow at the same rate from now on, it's still going to take 6 years for them to catch Nokia - and as we all know A LOT can happen in that time.

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Old 01-05-2010, 08:23 AM
Mr Mark Mr Mark is offline
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Nokia's market share has been pretty flat for the last few years which, considering they have no meaningful presence in the US where a lot of growth has occurred, isn't a bad achievement.

As for Stock Price, it's at least partly an indicator of growth - when you're increasing share rapidly it grossly inflates. When you've reached market saturation it drops and levels. It happened to Microsoft, it has happened Nokia, is happening to RIM and it will happen to Google and Apple.

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Old 01-05-2010, 04:42 PM
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Nobody credible is saying that Nokia is going away; they're too big, have many patents, and are involved in other businesses (Nokia-Siemens) to completely disappear.

What many ARE saying is that Nokia is no longer a growth company; they're now essentially a utility, and nobody that wants to make a profit in the markets, outside of your grandparent's pension fund, likes investing in utilities.

One of the reasons for the turmoil now in the company's executive suites and on the ground, is due to rapidly shrinking margins, that are collapsing, partly due to competition from the likes of Samsung and RIM. They're fighting it out with other manufacturers in low and mid tier markets and it's hell on their margins. Comparatively, Apple makes around $500-$600 per phone sale, while Nokia sees $80 per phone.

Many Nokia followers insist that the company doesn't need, and can ignore, the U.S. market. I propose that they really, really do need to be able to crack open the American market; if they find a way to play again in the Super Phone arena, their margins will expand, they'll have their 'halo' device, and they can start, with their good PR department, optimizing mindshare. In addition, most of the latest software innovation is happening in the U.S.

In order to compete in the U.S. though, Nokia needs to fast-track Meego and/or Symbian 4, and they need to reconfigure Ovi services, or at least partition a portion of them, to cater to the American market. Right now, understandably, services including the Ovi store, and even Maps are primarily Euro/Asia-centric. They'll also need to do something about their customer service and post sales support in the U.S., possibly partner with a company with a large bricks and mortar presence (Wal-Mart/Target/Best Buy/Radio Shack).

Anyway, that's my $ 0.02.

Last edited by Jimmy1; 01-05-2010 at 04:44 PM.

  #9  
Old 01-05-2010, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy1 View Post
Comparatively, Apple makes around $500-$600 per phone sale, while Nokia sees $80 per phone.
.
How do Apple make $500-$600 per phone sale when I can buy one for less than that (purchased outright, no contract) and like most iPhone owners I only do free apps?

I also believe the "super phone" segment is bigger and has more growth room in Asia.
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  #10  
Old 01-05-2010, 06:22 PM
Jimmy1 Jimmy1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
How do Apple make $500-$600 per phone sale when I can buy one for less than that (purchased outright, no contract) and like most iPhone owners I only do free apps?

I also believe the "super phone" segment is bigger and has more growth room in Asia.

They get that with a supplemental carrier deal. For example, a subsidized iPhone on AT&T, for a new subscriber, is around $200-$300. That goes to Apple, but AT&T also adds another couple of Hundred Dollars for each new subscriber, that also goes to Apple.

And then there's iTunes (apps, content, etc.). Everything from there is gravy for Apple.

  #11  
Old 01-05-2010, 06:58 PM
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"Unregistered - and like most iPhone owners I only do free apps?"

Oh Puh-Lease!! How on earth can you POSSIBLY say that lmao?? How do YOU know that MOST iPhone users only d/l free apps?

Hell I'll join in, like me most Nokia owners never d/l apps at all because they're all terrible and they only buy the cheap devices because Nokia are incapable of making a good phone.


See? Other people can spout rubbish too :-/

  #12  
Old 01-05-2010, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by iFanboy View Post

Oh Puh-Lease!!
"oh Puh-Lease"

What are you? Some kind of bad american sit-com stereotype from circa 1996?

I would be embarassed to use that kind of expression.

  #13  
Old 01-05-2010, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy1 View Post
They get that with a supplemental carrier deal. For example, a subsidized iPhone on AT&T, for a new subscriber, is around $200-$300. That goes to Apple, but AT&T also adds another couple of Hundred Dollars for each new subscriber, that also goes to Apple.

And then there's iTunes (apps, content, etc.). Everything from there is gravy for Apple.
So, in the UK I can pick up an iPhone 3GS with NO subscription for 424 (USD $646 www.xe.com)
and somehow, the phone is manufactured, shipped from China and everone has taken their cut from $146 and Apple picks up $500?

I have real trouble believing that.

  #14  
Old 01-05-2010, 09:22 PM
Tenkom Tenkom is offline
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iphone fanboy says to nokia fanboy: I gave alot more of my money to apple than you gave to nokia! So there!

  #15  
Old 01-05-2010, 11:53 PM
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Nokia fanboy says to an iPhone fanboy : I got rubbish specs from a smartphone for 400 than you did for 400 so...um....there?
 

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