All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

  #31  
Old 03-04-2009, 02:50 PM
Tzer2 Tzer2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Just thought I would add some views to the 'iPhone gets too much priority' debate. I'm a Symbian lover, very happy with my N85 and wouldn't really consider buying an iPhone, however the reason it gets the special coverage & treatment is that whilst the number of devices out there is relatively low, the usage is much higher due to the nature of the users.
There was a press release on Comscore recently (I'm not able to post links, but the article is press release no. 2759 if that helps you find it) - shows how much more active iPhone users are with this type of thing than other smartphone
Just because iPhone users are more "active" on average doesn't mean they make up a majority of users in general.

Part of the reason an iPhone user might be more likely to use the internet is because iPhones tend to be sold in bundles with unlimited internet access, and ANY phone sold in such a bundle is much more likely to be used on the internet for longer periods of time.


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Finally, I work within the mobile team of a fairly big UK website, and over 30% of our traffic is from iPhones (nearly 40% including iPod Touch), and that will end up having some influence of how we prioritise new developments.
It would be interesting to know what the theme and advertising used for that site is.

Another thing to ask is how sure you are that those really are iPhones or iPods. Because of its WebKit core, the Symbian S60 browser identifies itself as "Safari" on many stats packages (this happens on Google Analytics for example). Most people seem to assume anything labelled "Safari" must be an iPhone if it's on a mobile site.

  #32  
Old 03-04-2009, 03:01 PM
davidmaxwaterma davidmaxwaterma is offline
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Originally Posted by neilhoskins View Post
"To be born British is to win the lottery of life."

(Kipling?)
Actually, whether one is British or not is irrelevant.

It's curiously irrelevant if one pays a licence fee or not.

All one has to be is *in* the UK[1]

Max.

[1] IINM, you don't even have to be in the UK, since you could use a proxy server or vpn gateway located in the UK and be anywhere in the world.

  #33  
Old 03-04-2009, 03:06 PM
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Tzer2 - thank you for your thoughtful response. I looked into your beginner tutorials and believe me: I give you credit for a lot of hard work. The tutorials are well written and laid out. I don't have any problems with them and I would be the last person to criticize your work.

What I have a problem with is that these days on AAS it seems every story, every screenshot, etc. is somehow tied into the 5800.Your argument about the 7650 back in the days doesn't hold water. The 7650 was the only Symbian handset on the market back then. Today there are loads of Symbian and S60 handsets on the market and a majority of them overwhelmingly better than the 5800. Yet AAS chooses to focus on the 5800 only because it's "new" and you can touch the screen with your finger (whoopee!).

I'm sorry when I implied you got your 5800 for free. I'm glad you purchased it. But it just seems so transparent when the 5800 is plastered all over the place on this site. It's become nothing more but another advertisement channel for Nokia. I would have to be extremely nave not to think that the owners of this site are in bed with Nokia. Is AAS getting a commission from the sale of the 5800?

Just because something is new doesn't necessarily mean than it's better.

  #34  
Old 03-04-2009, 03:09 PM
davidmaxwaterma davidmaxwaterma is offline
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Originally Posted by samwarnaars View Post
Just for your information,

the BBC video/radio is blocked for foreigners, and can't be accessed from a foreign phone (The Netherlands in my case).
Neither of these statements is accurate, as far as I understand the situation.

You can be a foreigner and you can use a foreign phone. The only thing they check is if the IP address your accessing from is located in the UK - which, unless you do something fancy with proxies or vpn, means you have to be in the UK.

You don't even have to be a licence payer....that's the thing that gets me :/

If they would link the service with a licence fee, than I would almost certainly pay for one - and then I could use it anywhere in the world I happen to be. Of course, they could still not do the licence-fee thing for UP IP addresses, if they want, to make it easier for everyone there.

Yeah, I'm dreaming....but I'd bet they'd increase their audience and income...

  #35  
Old 03-04-2009, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tzer2 View Post
It would be interesting to know what the theme and advertising used for that site is.
Virtually no advertising at present - a lot of traffic comes from existing users as the first version of our mobile site was launched about 6 years ago, and we redirect mobile users from the web URL, which of course will explain a lot of the iPhone traffic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzer2 View Post
Another thing to ask is how sure you are that those really are iPhones or iPods. Because of its WebKit core, the Symbian S60 browser identifies itself as "Safari" on many stats packages (this happens on Google Analytics for example). Most people seem to assume anything labelled "Safari" must be an iPhone if it's on a mobile site.
We have a custom reporting tool which I believe is based on the user agent, and reports the two separately, so I assume there must be something which identifies them as such.

  #36  
Old 03-04-2009, 03:24 PM
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The 5800 is a cheap plasticky phone for the masses - and that is one of the things that make it brilliant! Smartphones have a rapid obselescence so there is little point in wasting good money on them. The 5800 packs in an incredible amount of functionality for something that hit the market sim free unlocked for 200 in the UK. If it is the 5th edition spearhead then that is where the news is.

I agree that streaming live tv over wi-fi is a bit of a frivolous gimmick, especially as many wifi connections have streaming blocked at the firewall. But it's a good technology demo.

  #37  
Old 03-04-2009, 03:26 PM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
Today there are loads of Symbian and S60 handsets on the market and a majority of them overwhelmingly better than the 5800... I'm sorry when I implied you got your 5800 for free. I'm glad you purchased it. But it just seems so transparent when the 5800 is plastered all over the place on this site. It's become nothing more but another advertisement channel for Nokia. I would have to be extremely nave not to think that the owners of this site are in bed with Nokia. Is AAS getting a commission from the sale of the 5800?
Just a few points here(!). a) "overwhelmingly" - I disagree, I've tried them all and, on balance the 5800 holds its head up with the best of them. N95 8GB, N82 and 5800 are tied more or less equally in my head.

b) Rafe bought his/Ewan's 5800 too, FYI. And Nokia certainly doesn't 'buy' editorial on AAS.

c) And no, we're not on any direct commission for anything other than usual affiliation schemes, which apply across all device purchases, not just the 5800.
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  #38  
Old 03-04-2009, 03:30 PM
davidmaxwaterma davidmaxwaterma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzer2 View Post
Just because iPhone users are more "active" on average doesn't mean they make up a majority of users in general.

Part of the reason an iPhone user might be more likely to use the internet is because iPhones tend to be sold in bundles with unlimited internet access, and ANY phone sold in such a bundle is much more likely to be used on the internet for longer periods of time.
That's quite true in some countries, of which, I assume, the UK is one. I think it's a changing trend though - both the iPhone is being sold more often without unlimited data plans *and* more S60 users are choosing unlimited data plans. Probably, the latter is due in no small part to the visibility the iPhone gives to such an option - it really does change the whole game. It's not the iPhone, per se, but the unlimited data - well, a combination thereof.

Quote:
It would be interesting to know what the theme and advertising used for that site is.
Right. They say something similar about Google's logs, but there are a few areas of the world where S60 is prevalent (and the iPhone almost non-existent), and yet Google is almost never user (China for one, but most of Asia are similar, I'd guess - I wonder about India).

They're called statistics for a reason - they (can) lie, or more likely mislead.

For example, the BBC might conclude from their logs that few S60 users are interested in the iPlayer. Of course, the only reason is that most S60 users will try it once and see that it doesn't work and so never go there again.

If they made it work for S60, like they do for the iPhone, then more people would use it. ...*many* more, I'd guess. Actually, they only really have to *get a pair* and forget about people's phone bills - do they worry about people's home internet access bills? (no).[1]

The only reason the iPhone is well supported by the BBC is because many of their employees are Apple nuts and so they know it can do this sort of thing and so push for it. It actually *is* a bias within the BBC, IMO. I'm sure they could make their stuff work just fine on other S60 phones, if they really wanted to. I think it's only because people complain that they are even aware of S60 - oh, and Nokia trying to encourage them too.

Quote:
Another thing to ask is how sure you are that those really are iPhones or iPods. Because of its WebKit core, the Symbian S60 browser identifies itself as "Safari" on many stats packages (this happens on Google Analytics for example). Most people seem to assume anything labelled "Safari" must be an iPhone if it's on a mobile site.
I noticed this on my mobile web site too...but I think the stats are probably vaguely accurate in this respect.

Max.

[1] This reminds me of two things : 1) The McDonald's coffee debacle in the US, and 2) a Not The Nine O'Clock News sketch where someone had written "Points of View" about how they complain to the Electricity Board about every little problem, even though they are totally unrelated. This is not quite like either of them, but still...

  #39  
Old 03-04-2009, 03:54 PM
malbry malbry is offline
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Quote:
There was a press release on Comscore recently (I'm not able to post links, but the article is press release no. 2759 if that helps you find it) - shows how much more active iPhone users are with this type of thing than other smartphone
As it relates to BBC iPlayer, there are also a considerable number of Linux users (like me) who are unable to download content from the BBC iPlayer service except by pretending to access via an iPhone. Probably makes the BBC wonks think the iPhone is more popular than it really is.

Regards,
Malcolm

  #40  
Old 03-04-2009, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi Rafe,

"We're going to be looking at the N97 and Samsung Omnia HD in lots of detail and there are other handsets coming up later in the year that are, potentially, even more exciting."

Would you care to elaborate on the future handsets that are potentially even more exciting.
There's always new devices on the horizon (yes I have some idea of what will come, but no specifics - yet you can draw a line - more will come). I think its fair to say that among Symbian touch devices the Omnia HD and N97 will be at the top of the tree for a while though.
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  #41  
Old 03-04-2009, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
I'm sorry when I implied you got your 5800 for free. I'm glad you purchased it. But it just seems so transparent when the 5800 is plastered all over the place on this site. It's become nothing more but another advertisement channel for Nokia. I would have to be extremely nave not to think that the owners of this site are in bed with Nokia. Is AAS getting a commission from the sale of the 5800?

Just because something is new doesn't necessarily mean than it's better.
We're honestly not in bed with Nokia. Yes we get loan devices and yes we talk to corporate comms and PR. That's no different to any other media site. It might be fair to say we do more than most, but that the majority of Symbian devices are Nokia and that's what we cover. I'm not sure what more I can do to convince you.

We're also covering the Omnia HD in detail (as we have all the Samsung phones). We're also expanding our developer coverage (www.allaboutsymbian.com/developer/).

AAS is definitely not an advertisement channel for Nokia. We do not get commission. Some of the links in reviews (phones, accessories, software) go to third party sites (e.g. handango, carphone warehouse etc.) and we would get an affiliate fee for this (commission), but that applies across all phones. You'll also see banner advertising to such sites.

As the head / editor-in-chief of AAS I did make a conscious decision to do a lot of 5800 content. But this is mainly because S60 5th Edition is new (and the first S60 touch devices). We needed content in this area too match our very extensive content archives on S60 1/2/3, UIQ etc. That explains the 5800 tutorial series (and we wanted to broaden the site's appeal).

With news items - that is very much more based around what comes up - recently a lot off stuff has being coming over to S60 5th Edition, and at the moment, the only device available is the 5800.

I will ask all the writers, when talking about some that is new to S60 5th Edition, to make sure they mention that it is also S60 3rd Edition compatible (where applicable). Looking at the editorial calendar ahead I can also tell you that you'll be seeing a lot of non 5800 content in the next month or two.
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  #42  
Old 03-04-2009, 04:21 PM
davidmaxwaterma davidmaxwaterma is offline
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Originally Posted by Rafe View Post
Some of the links in reviews (phones, accessories, software) go to third party sites (e.g. handango, carphone warehouse etc.) and we would get an affiliate fee for this (commission)
I'm curious what plans/ideas you have for Ovi. Can you advertise stuff on their and get a commission, like you say you do for other sites?

  #43  
Old 03-04-2009, 04:28 PM
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To: slitchfield and Rafe

I realize that at the end of the day it is you guys who own and operate this site and you can do whatever you want with it without having to justify it to anybody. So thank you for responding.

I apologize If I came across harsh. That wasn't my intent, I was just voicing my opinion. And my opinion simply is that I'd like to see a larger variety of phones on this site being talked about.

Even the older ones are still good models. The N82 was not too long ago heralded on these pages as the 2nd coming of Christ. But just last week I thought I had read here a cynical comment about how the N82 is now an old bargain bin device. Where do we draw the line?

What about the amazing E90 just because it's 2 years old means we can discard it to the museum?

The 5800 IMHO is not the promised land of mobile communication.

  #44  
Old 03-04-2009, 04:36 PM
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>> a cynical comment about how the N82 is now an old bargain bin device.

That's because you completely missed the point of my item - which was to say that this classic smartphone, still one of the very best in the world, is (lucky for us) being sold at 'bargain bin' prices, simply because it's older. Which is why I was recommending it to be bought......
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  #45  
Old 03-04-2009, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
To: slitchfield and Rafe

I realize that at the end of the day it is you guys who own and operate this site and you can do whatever you want with it without having to justify it to anybody. So thank you for responding.

I apologize If I came across harsh. That wasn't my intent, I was just voicing my opinion. And my opinion simply is that I'd like to see a larger variety of phones on this site being talked about.

Even the older ones are still good models. The N82 was not too long ago heralded on these pages as the 2nd coming of Christ. But just last week I thought I had read here a cynical comment about how the N82 is now an old bargain bin device. Where do we draw the line?

What about the amazing E90… just because it's 2 years old means we can discard it to the museum?

The 5800 IMHO is not the promised land of mobile communication.
Please don't apologize - we really appreciate all feedback - whether public or private. Sorry if I jumped on this a bit too harshly too - I just like to explain things when people have an issue

Actually we mentioned the N82 bargain because we think it is such a great device. It wasn't intended to be cynical at all. And at 200 its a steal - for some people I would recommend it over the 5800. But it is 'old' in smartphone terms As an older device it generally gets much less interest (traffic).

To an extent we tailor what we write to what is most popular (not always, there also some stuff we cover for sake of completeness).

The 5800 content has been amongst the most popular stuff we have ever done. The E71 and N95 are also very popular devices. The N82 (despite it being one of my personal favourite) has not had this same kind of interest.

As to you opinion - perfectly valid - I think you'll be pleased by the way things develop in the next few months. Not so much a focus on older phones, but a focus on other phones (S60 3.2). One of the next big pushes will also be on Ovi services in general (work on all devices to some extent).

p.s. My E90 is still around and does occasional service, though the E71 largely replaced it to be honest. And the E75 is n some way an even better replacement.
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Last edited by slitchfield; 03-04-2009 at 07:56 PM. Reason: typo
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