All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #31  
Old 01-04-2009, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jan Ole Suhr View Post
You can of course transfer a license for free. Just send me the new IMEI and that's it.

ole at mobileways.de
My sincere apologies. When I visited your website to buy the Gravity application & saw that it was tied to IMEI i freaked out cause I thought that I'm about to change my phone in a few months so I will be throwing away money.
(I think it should be clearly mentioned on the website that the application can be shifted to future phones..Or maybe I missed it-sorry!)

I'd be happy to buy 2 copies of Gravity if I was assured I could shift them to my new phones.. As I said before, I change phones frequently.

Now that I have that assurance I think the price is perfect.

I want to thank you Jan Ole Suhr for finally developing the most beautiful & easy to use S60 application I have ever seen! I'm going to buy asap.

  #32  
Old 01-04-2009, 09:19 PM
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Overpriced ?, no, right lets see what substance less vitriol James comes out with NEXT Wednesday!

  #33  
Old 01-04-2009, 09:38 PM
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By the way, no matter what I thought about the price of Gravity initially, I have to say that this article on AllAboutSymbian was a complete disappointment.

If you guys had to talk about the high prices of S60 applications then the TITLE should not have been targeted at Gravity.

There are MANY other applications even more expensive.

The TITLE of this article is a direct attack on a single developer which will surely bring negative PR to it.

You guys could have named the article 'S60 apps - high prices' or whatever... But naming one app in the title is just trying to bring negative attention to it.

I expect better from AllAboutSymbian next time. Don't turn into a screaming tabloid with flashy titles.

  #34  
Old 01-04-2009, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nechbi View Post
In the context of price, I think that a game is naturally more complex in design and should be priced accordingly. The latest N-Gage Game - The Prince of Persia - sells for 8, is a Twitter App (at 60p less) in the same league? Simple answer - No.
I find this particularly interesting. I'm going to get a lot more use out of Twitter than I will out of any one N-Gage game and would therefore value it more highly. Consequently willing to pay more.

I take you point on a per hour basis an N-Gage is more valuable, but it has a limited shelf life.

Personally I put most games into the disposable content category. On the iPhone App Stores games are some of the worst offenders in the race to zero cost software.

Not picking on you nechbi (always value your comments) - I just think this is a great illustration of how different people perceive value.
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  #35  
Old 01-04-2009, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
The TITLE of this article is a direct attack on a single developer which will surely bring negative PR to it.

You guys could have named the article 'S60 apps - high prices' or whatever... But naming one app in the title is just trying to bring negative attention to it.

I expect better from AllAboutSymbian next time. Don't turn into a screaming tabloid with flashy titles.
That's a valid comment and as the editor I carry ultimate responsibility for this. Thanks for taking the time to make this comment. I'll certainly keep it in mind in the future.

I would say it certainly wasn't the intention to be negative about any one application. I would also hope that all the positive comments on value (including my own) would help drive extra sales.
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  #36  
Old 01-04-2009, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph G View Post
1. How come Gravity is the only native S60 twitter client? The iphone has so many clients I can't count them all. For S60, we have a couple of java apps and some IM programs with Twitter functionality tacked on.
1. $10 US is way too much, in my mind, for this application when comparable apps on the iPhone only cost $3 or less.
I posted this link yesterday but I'll post it again. It's a chart comparing features of the various iPhone Twitter applications. http://gigapple.files.wordpress.com/...tter-table.png From that chart, only two or three (maybe even just one or two) of the available applications are really comparable to Gravity, and one of those sells for $9.99. (I grant that the most feature-rich one, Tweetie, costs only $3.99 as someone noted earlier in this thread.)

There's a whiskey distiller from the USA that has used the slogan "All Goods Worth Price Charged". If Gravity isn't worth $10, then few will buy it, and it will either sell for less or add more features, or wither away. I personally think it will be a success at $10. It's a very nice application. Kudos to Jan.

  #37  
Old 01-04-2009, 11:42 PM
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There's a beta of Twittix out, by the way... http://www.mojosmobile.com/studios/d...ittix_0_90.sis

Gravity is much nicer. I'll gladly pay for it when it gets default networks destination or it's out on the Ovi Store and I can buy it with network billing.

  #38  
Old 02-04-2009, 04:06 AM
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Is it possible to tie an application to the sim and not imei? that way you can have gravity on 2-3 devices and when your sim is out, the app is locked, pop it back in and off you go.

  #39  
Old 02-04-2009, 06:04 AM
James Pearce
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Wink Don't be downhearted!

Jan Ole, take heart.

GBP12 for a PDF? fivesimplesteps.co.uk
GBP15 for sync software? A year?? spanningsync.com

Frankly the price seems good to me.

Pundits can say whatever they like. But you are the only person who has actually made something.

It's beautiful and you can charge whatever you want :-)

James
tripleodeon.com

  #40  
Old 02-04-2009, 09:44 AM
John the Monkey John the Monkey is offline
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I've been using the trial version for a couple of days now, and really like it.

I saw the title of James' piece and thought to myself, "Oh god, it must be going to cost 20, or something?"

As it turns out, it's 7 ish. Gravity is easily worth this, imo - the interface is superb, and in the time I've been using it I've found it hard to fault. iPhone twitter clients cost less? Interesting, but I have an N82, not an iPhone.
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  #41  
Old 02-04-2009, 11:23 AM
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One of my favourite articles around the science of pricing software correctly is Joel Spolsky's "Camels and Rubber Duckies": http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articl...erDuckies.html

Read also Craig Hockenberry's "Dear Steve" letter titled "Ringtone apps": http://furbo.org/2008/12/09/ring-tone-apps/

  #42  
Old 02-04-2009, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafe View Post
But clearly there is a discussion to be had here. Application stores are forcing prices down and that creates a perception problem.

I suspect the sub $5 app price is not going to be sustainable, long term, for some developers and certain apps. Even with app stores getting the number of sales that supports this is going to be difficult. Yes some software can, but not all.
The ringtone and Java games market are sub $5 too and those markets haven been around for a long time. This is going to be a market of one-hit wonders, a single app makes either almost no money at all, or lots and lots of it, $100.000+, maybe even $1.000.000+ if all those million Nokia's out there have Ovi Store on board. And because this is the mass market, mass market tactics are the rules to play by.

Quote:
This issue has come up in the iPhone App Store and Android Marketplace. The danger with the race to zero for software is that it kills off complex apps (no point investing in them as returns are smaller than basic apps). This could be potentially very damaging to a platform ecosystem.
Why? If the cheap and cheerful apps generate enough money for their developers, what would be the problem?

Quote:
There is a need to differentiate between disposable apps and productivity / functionality adding applications. This is difficult in current app stores. It'll be interesting to see what Ovi Store's SoLo brings to the table. Yes I do think there is a threshold past which people wont pay, but I think this varies depending on the type of application / game. Arguably also from user to user (generally I'm less willing to pay high prices for games). The issue is how to communicate this different value to end users?

So yes sub $5 for disposable apps (ones you might use for a week or two), but not for long term function adding apps (which you use for the life time of your phone). Even this two tier definition is an over-simplification.
We now know of two working business models for selling mobile apps: the traditional PDA type of app with demo's, good user support and paid upgrades, and the new one-dollar cheap and cheerful one. The problem at the moment is that putting these two very different kind of apps in a single shop is a problem for the expensive ones. But there should be no reason to think one business model is better than the other.

The mass market solution to such a situation is to segmentise. Create a couple of stores, one for the cheap and cheerful apps, one for the traditional more expensive PDA apps. Very cheap phones do not get the expensive apps-store and the high-end business models do not get the cheap apps-Store, or only indirectly (to add some discretion). Maybe a special Games store with the more expensive games.

Quote:

Hmm not expressed as well I would like, will revisit this later. Economic theory could shed some interesting light on this. Price optimisation requires a bit of though, but its also certainly possible. i.e. cut app cost = more sales, but only cost such that extra sales gains more revenue than price cost costs. I suspect Gravity has it about right in this instance.

-------

I'm also aware that this is a controversial topic and some may think AAS are doing a disservice to developers but writing about this topics, and that that we should do more to support developers. However while we are a 'community' site in one sense we also strive to be as professional as possible. As such we will cover hot topics and comment from all angles. Many voices give the broadest view. We're happy to hear from anyone who wants to express an opinion.
JoelOnSoftware has a nice article on software pricing http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articl...erDuckies.html

  #43  
Old 02-04-2009, 01:55 PM
tym79m tym79m is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N/A View Post
Read also Craig Hockenberry's "Dear Steve" letter titled "Ringtone apps": http://furbo.org/2008/12/09/ring-tone-apps/
Informative read. Thanks.

  #44  
Old 02-04-2009, 04:36 PM
mike bradshaw
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Originally Posted by Joseph G View Post
1. How come Gravity is the only native S60 twitter client? The iphone has so many clients I can't count them all. For S60, we have a couple of java apps and some IM programs with Twitter functionality tacked on.
because Twitter started in the Valley where there is a surplus of Apple fans who can code a bit, and all want to "scratch an itch" so they code up a simple app and throw it up on the app store.
This allows them to satisfy two urges; 1) create a full working app so they learn about iPhone development, and 2) scratch an itch to create a Twitter client.
The fact that the numbers show that iPhone owners will buy almost anything (and so generate some money for the developer) makes it a no brainer.

Why are there fewer apps for S60?
My guess is that all of the comments about it being "hard" to develop S60 apps has stopped a number of people from attempting it.
The fractured nature of S60 (Nokia aims a particular handset a particular market segment), means that there is potentially a horrendous testing problem (each one has subtley different tweaks added). I think Rafe might have put a post up about this at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph G View Post
Nokia really should be spending less time tinkering with Ovi and concentrate on helping make app development easy and cheaper for their platform. The lack of quality applications (still waiting on Facebook... will it cost us $20 when it finally does come out?) and the high price of those that do exist are making me seriously reconsider whether I want to stick with Nokia phones in the future.
Apparently, Nokia is making moves to make development easier (sorry i don't have any specific URI's to back this up, but various comments, Tweets, Jaiku's etc that i have seen over the last few months have caused this idea in my head).
Also, many people are not aware of PyS60, and it's RAD and prototyping capabilities.
If you have not already done so, download WordMobi to see an example of what can be achieved with PyS60

  #45  
Old 02-04-2009, 05:10 PM
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I'll chime in here, too.

Personally, I think James has an excellent point: in comparison with other platforms (iPhone, WinMo, Android, etc), Gravity is definitely overpriced.

However, how many of Gravity's potential customers have that perspective? How many of us own both an iPhone and an S60, or an S60 and a WinMo device? Probably a small portion. Thus, you can't really take the price of apps on these other platforms into account, as it's not really relative to the buying decision.

If I have an S60-powered smartphone (which I do, obviously), and I'm wanting to use it with Twitter, I currently have a limited number of options:

1. mobile web - surely there are better options here than others (Dabr.co.uk, for example), but it's still a web app, with limited features (no multiple accounts, no autorefresh, takes up my browser (since we don't really have full tab support yet), etc.

2. SMS - again, severely limited

3. Various java apps - I've personally tried jibjib, twim, and twibble, and they all suck in terms of UI and feature-set compared to Gravity

4. Twittix just launched yesterday, and duplicates many of the features of gravity, priced at EUR4.95

5. Gravity, priced at EUR7.25

Sure, it's EUR3 more than its closest competition, but Gravity, currently, is the only way that I can manage my 2 twitter accounts (personal and Symbian-Guru), as well as fully interact and use Twitter, with saved searches and whatnot.

As an S60 user, these 5 are my only options, and frankly, Gravity currently solves all of needs, whereas none of the other options do. Thus, I'm easily willing to shell out EUR725 for a copy (disclaimer: I'm in the beta, and haven't been asked to pay, but sent @janole a donation of EUR725, simply because it has added enough value), as it adds value to my phone and enables me to use my phone for even further productivity than it previously did.

Sure, apps in the S60 world are more expensive than other platforms, that's common knowledge. Sure, when the Ovi Store launches, most developers (specifically the 'independent' ones such as mobileways.de) will likely be able to drop their prices due to the increased number of licenses sold.

However, it's important to keep things in perspective. You can't really say that the OSX version of MS Office is overpriced compared to the Windows version of MS Office, because the Windows version clearly isn't an option for the OSX user (ignoring the possibility of dual-booting for the purposes of this comparison). The price of a competing product is irrelevant if that product clearly isn't an option for the potential customer.

It'd be like telling me that Verizon's touchscreen smartphone is cheaper than AT&T's, and thus AT&T has overpriced theirs. If I'm on an AT&T contract, then Verizon's prices are completely irrelevant to me.

Last edited by rcadden; 02-04-2009 at 05:22 PM. Reason: added emphasis to AT&T/Verizon comparison for clarification
 

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