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  #31  
Old 24-05-2010, 10:22 AM
Andrew Weekes
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Sales vs. giveaway

I'd love to know the breakdown between genuine sales of the various phone brands (i.e. users who buy, for cash, a new unlocked phone not attached or limited to a specific network) vs. those phone 'sales' that are the result of contract deals, upgrades etc.

Does anyone have that data - it would make for interesting analysis.

Most people I know get their phones through contract deals in my experience, whereas I was looked at oddly for buying, with my own hard-earned, an unlocked phone without contract.

It's another factor BTW in the end user dissatisfaction, my contract Nokia was riddled with stability issues that could not be resolved by either the network or Nokia themselves, since the substantive upgrades Nokia had created were not available for my branded version of the phone.

I effectively had to invalidate my warranty to update the phone, which then became a quite usable device, UI frustrations notwithstanding and I give credit to Nokia here for providing regular updates and fixes.

Whilst all networks want their branded phones I do wonder how the increase in sales the manufacturers get vs. the negative experiences of problematic firmware affects future sales. For me I understand the issue and complexities, but looking at it from a customer service / perception thing a users inability to obtain updates that will improve their experience ultimately reflects badly on the manufacturer. People won't see their <insert network provider here> phone as a problem, they'll see their <insert phone manufacturer here> phone as having the problem.

I tried my best to get both the network and Nokia to provide assistance here, but both pointed the fingers at each other - Nokia stating correctly that the network has to approve the updates, whilst most of the network contacts know nothing of this and can't help the customer.

I was fortunate as I could 'fix' the problem for myself, but most non-tehnical users would not be able to.

Andy.

  #32  
Old 24-05-2010, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by slitchfield View Post
Oh, I prefer capacitive too, given the choice. But having seen the robustness and climate tests that all Nokias have to go through, I absolutely understand the reasons why they've mostly chosen to use resistive in the past. Capacitive screens are just a pain when it's very cold or humid or dry or hot! 8-)



No, the firmwares are fine. I was referring to the 'optional extras' like Nokia Maps 3.3, Qt runtime, Nokia Messaging and so on.
Craving everyone's indulgence for me to be 'awkward and argumentative' but these are points of detail that are important.

I don't understand your line between firmwares and 'optional extras'?

Are you saying that an N97, with updated firmware but with no extras added, is a phone that as of May 2010, you would recommend to someone outside of the 'geek' user crowd?

  #33  
Old 24-05-2010, 11:29 AM
Jowls Jowls is offline
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Excellent argumentation from Andrew and as always interesting comments from Steve and others.

However must admit that I tend to believe that Nokias current challenges in the smart phone market arent due to engineering issues at all. For some reason many of the "trendsetters" of the internet just doesnt seem the least excited about Symbian devices while even a faint rumour of a new IPhone or a minor Android update can send them into a total frenzy. When was the last time people slept in a line outside a store to be the first to get theirs hands on a new Symbian phone? Or gave standing ovations at a press conference because a Symbian provider announced that "we have now added MMS capability and cut/paste"? Even the announcement of the amazingly spec'ed and surprizingly low priced N8 didnt seem to create nearly as much excitement as the fact that the next IPhone will have (wait for it...) a forward facing camera!

I am not a marketing expert so I have no idea what it is that Apple and Google... yes, and even Microsoft... does that Nokia doesnt. But surely the interface issues cant be the sole reason for this. Admitted it has it quirks as pointed out in the article, but so does the contenders. Even Apple.

  #34  
Old 24-05-2010, 11:42 AM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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Originally Posted by morpheus2702 View Post
Craving everyone's indulgence for me to be 'awkward and argumentative' but these are points of detail that are important.
I don't understand your line between firmwares and 'optional extras'? Are you saying that an N97, with updated firmware but with no extras added, is a phone that as of May 2010, you would recommend to someone outside of the 'geek' user crowd?
No, because it's not practical for Joe Average to exist in a 'no extras' bubble forever. Nokia keep popping updates in via Sw update and you just KNOW that users will click on them, install them and generally get their C disk into a world of pain.

My N97 runs sweet as a nut because I've installed almost NOTHING from SW_update. But that's only because I know better. I stand by everything I've said: the N97 in geek hands, can still do more than almost any single electronic device in the world. But it takes a lot of geek fiddling to keep it running this well.
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  #35  
Old 24-05-2010, 02:25 PM
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abruenin "Even if Super AMOLED is a little less reflective, the light from the display will compete with the light of the sun ... guess who will win this."

You might be surprised when you find out the answer for this.

  #36  
Old 24-05-2010, 02:29 PM
miskol miskol is offline
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Ok, I can understand that people are sceptical about the N8, given Nokias history with N97. BUT come on, go to youtube and watch all the clips about the N8. Including the unofficial ones, that shows some 3D games on it. It is quite evident that this phone will kick ass! Judging from the videos it is already far ahead of anything in its price range.

As a developer I have looked a great deal at the new Qt framework that the N8 and Maemo/Meego, and it rocks! It's fast and open, with a serious ability to kick both Android and iPhone in the teeth. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

But I guess, we will all see sometime in July/August. However I am, for the first time in 3 years holding my breath on the N8.
Qt isn't done yet we all hope it will be in time for N8
Opening Symbian was waste of time! We all lost 1-2 years of development
All nokia phones was always slow slow slow (E series, C series)
5800 should beat iPhone. WTH how??? with slow processor ? without multitouch?

N8 - I hope that nokia will optimise all apps with mutitouch. On all videos we see Ovi maps with plus minus buttons ,....

  #37  
Old 24-05-2010, 03:52 PM
davekolmer davekolmer is offline
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Great comments about Nokia/Symbian

I happened into a T-Mobile store two days ago and got to see the soon-to-be-released MyTouch 3G Slide by HTC and using the Sense UI over Android 2.1. I have long been a Psion/Symbian/Nokia fan but I'll switch to Android when this one is released. It made the S60v3 UI on my faithful Nokia 6120 look absolutely and hopelessly archaic.

  #38  
Old 24-05-2010, 04:02 PM
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Best thing to do is stop complaining about Nokia and move elsewhere. if you're that fed up of it just go buy ssomthing else instead of constantly whining on here.

No point trying to put your points accross here as this is one of the most bias sites I've been to. It's worse than those iPhone fanboy sites... Vote with your wallet and vote where you wish to go for a more uniformed views. The less you visit here the less fustrated you'll be and the less you'll be supporting AAS/Nokia.

  #39  
Old 24-05-2010, 06:52 PM
buster buster is offline
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Best thing to do is stop complaining about Nokia and move elsewhere. if you're that fed up of it just go buy ssomthing else instead of constantly whining on here.

No point trying to put your points accross here as this is one of the most bias sites I've been to. It's worse than those iPhone fanboy sites... Vote with your wallet and vote where you wish to go for a more uniformed views. The less you visit here the less fustrated you'll be and the less you'll be supporting AAS/Nokia.
Bullshit. If this is the best argument you can put forward, then why don't YOU go somewhere else instead. These kinds of nonsense "this website is biassed" arguments are tedious in the extreme...

  #40  
Old 24-05-2010, 06:53 PM
buster buster is offline
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Originally Posted by davekolmer View Post
I happened into a T-Mobile store two days ago and got to see the soon-to-be-released MyTouch 3G Slide by HTC and using the Sense UI over Android 2.1. I have long been a Psion/Symbian/Nokia fan but I'll switch to Android when this one is released. It made the S60v3 UI on my faithful Nokia 6120 look absolutely and hopelessly archaic.
This is a fairly pointless argument. It's like saying "these new Samsung LCD TVs make my old Sony CRT TV look old-fashioned so I'm going to buy Samsung from now on"; hardly what one would call a reasonable comparison...
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  #41  
Old 25-05-2010, 09:47 AM
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Craving everyone's indulgence for me to be 'awkward and argumentative' but these are points of detail that are important.
So you declare they are important. Says you. But why exactly? They are important to you because of some kind of OCD thing?

  #42  
Old 25-05-2010, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew Weekes View Post


I effectively had to invalidate my warranty to update the phone,

I was fortunate as I could 'fix' the problem for myself, but most non-tehnical users would not be able to.

Andy.
Actually I'm non technical but I can follow a simple set of instructions, which is what the change to product code is. Very very easy. And there is no effect on warranty, after I did mine the phone was repaired for the garbled screen problem without question.

The other option is to take a phone to a Nokia shop or authorised repair centre and ask them to upgrade. I know of people that did it this way.

  #43  
Old 25-05-2010, 10:02 AM
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morpheus2702 morpheus2702 is offline
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So you declare they are important. Says you. But why exactly? They are important to you because of some kind of OCD thing?
Yeah says me, I don't say anyone else has to think its important.

Get over it and yourself, nameless halfwit.

  #44  
Old 25-05-2010, 06:13 PM
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Yeah says me, I don't say anyone else has to think its important.

Get over it and yourself, nameless halfwit.
I would say that being unregistered and nameless is superior to being a sock-puppet.

When people run out of answers and have to resort to insults they are over.

  #45  
Old 25-05-2010, 06:23 PM
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morpheus2702 morpheus2702 is offline
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You could only be a sock puppet in your dreams :-)
 

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