Comment: Whatever happened too shareware?

I like freeware, but the problem I had with freeware on linux was that the quality just suckt 😉

I think since somewhat everybody seems to be learning OPL we can expect more and more freeware apps (hope).

Maybe if appforge would be free, more people would start making free programs because VB is a very easy environment.

[quote="Dazler"]Maybe if appforge would be free, more people would start making free programs because VB is a very easy environment.[/quote]

Not sure about AppForge being the platform. I tried the demo version of FormulaCalc. It consumed 1,500 kB of memory when running. That's a lot for a small utility application. When asked, L3Solutions said that most of the memory was taken by the AppForge engine. My poor old 9210 doesn't have enough memory to run this in // with much else!

I was going to try paratrooper, it's freeware on the Appforge engine, but it told me how much memory was needed by appforge and I thought "screw this!" Especially when appforge wanted me to send an SMS to register, it was swiftly uninstalled.

Switchblade feel free to post this rant to the Musings sections of news (just label it something like: Comment: the decline of shareware.

Actually I'm going to try and encourage more comments / analysis style posts as I think they provoke the best discussion.

Alternatively if you don't mind I can move the whole thread to the right place (just say yes, I don't like doing so without asking), that way we can preserve the comments too.

My personal take on this is yes things are quite bad. There are some people who keep the traditional idea alive.

Myself I dont object to the software which is a trial of limited length, I don't like the crippled ones. However I feel part of the blame lies with users (not everyone, just those who didn't respect shareware). In all honesty how many people have an unregistered copy of WinZip saying - this is your 3,120 days os use, please register after 30 days. I know I use to.

[quote="SwitchBlade"]
*rant over, steps off of milk crates. Jumps back on milk crates*

Big shout to the FreEPOC crew and everyone producing quality freeware for the 9210, and anyone who holds true to the old shareware ideals.

*Police escort from the milk crates for causing a public disturbance*
[/quote]

Ewan starts glowing, along with a lot of other peeps over in *.org land...

Switchbalde, your rant is pretty much why FreEPOC started with the 5mx and houses such as Neuon promising the earth and asking for the moon on a stick to see it work fully.

Holding true to old shareeware ideals, or evengoing good quality freeware (ie you really care about the app, rather than crap, it's not selling at all, lets just try and get a good Press Release about it attitude). I'll mention Vexed on ER1-6 machines, and also EpocSync on ER3-5 (bloody scary app).

And as to everything else, Rafe and I are dropping hints all over the forum, and I'd ask you to put your money where your mouth is when it's all over...

Feel free to move it and retitle it as you see fit mate. I've posted a rant article before, tho I'm not sure if I can remember what it was about now, and I'm happy to post more in the future (you know me), but I didn't wanna dump it there and have you come on with a "What the f*ck is that post about? How is that news? This isn't Slashdot/The Register." kinda response.

[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]
And as to everything else, Rafe and I are dropping hints all over the forum, and I'd ask you to put your money where your mouth is when it's all over...[/quote]

Mildly confused to what you mean there, if it's regarding charging for apps, I've never asked for shareware donations for software I produced (all those many years ago), and as soon as I figure out a nice way of coding for the 9210 (the MGS system sounds quite nice) I'll look at coding for the 9210, BUT, I ain't using the pile of turd called M$ Visual C++ to accomplish this.

If you are implying donations are gratefully recieved, as and when I become employed I am willing to donate to the people holding the correct ideals.

[quote="SwitchBlade"][quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]
And as to everything else, Rafe and I are dropping hints all over the forum, and I'd ask you to put your money where your mouth is when it's all over...[/quote]

Mildly confused to what you mean there, if it's regarding charging for apps, I've never asked for shareware donations for software I produced (all those many years ago), and as soon as I figure out a nice way of coding for the 9210 (the MGS system sounds quite nice) I'll look at coding for the 9210, BUT, I ain't using the pile of turd called M$ Visual C++ to accomplish this.

If you are implying donations are gratefully recieved, as and when I become employed I am willing to donate to the people holding the correct ideals.[/quote]

No, no its none of that.. lets just say its to do with making the coding easider for beginners.

I think Ewan is saying that we'll give you a helping hand but we cant break the trend of taking a horse to water....

[quote="Rafe"][quote="SwitchBlade"]
If you are implying donations are gratefully recieved, as and when I become employed I am willing to donate to the people holding the correct ideals.[/quote]

No, no its none of that.. lets just say its to do with making the coding easider for beginners.

I think Ewan is saying that we'll give you a helping hand but we cant break the trend of taking a horse to water....[/quote]

Although FreEPOC's data transfer rate and hosting won't say no to donations. 😉

But Rafe is right, we're going to try and open up the ability to program to pretty much everyone on the list who has a bit of savvy. Hopefully people will realise that this could be the last best chance (tm JMS) to get Symbian to recognise the power of individuals, as opposed to people with big cheque books who'll steal their kernel and run away with it when they're not looking.

/me beats head with a big stick.

Aaaaaaaah now I'm with you. Personally I'd like to find a reference for ARM ASM, as I much prefer using ASM/C for coding than class libaries etc. But VC++ has the most useless and annoying interface and design ever. Why couldn't the Nokia SDK come with a more sensible way of compiling your apps for the emulator. I realise you don't need VC++ to code for it, as the compiler straight to ARM for the device doesn't involve it, but it seems from what I've looked at that it needs VC++ to compile to the emulator.

If someone can tell me a simple way that I can use the Nokia SDK with ASM and using a nice DOS text editor (MS-DOS Edit), and some command line tools to make my apps I will be happy.

You could always look at OPL and run the Program Editor directly on the 9210. It has a handy button marked "Translate" and the asks "Do you want to run the app?" Not as powerful as C++ but you can do a hell of a lot with it-

Better stop before I get myself started again - but why not go to FreEPOC and have a look at Start5 to see what can be accomplished in OPL.

I suppose it all depends on upbringing, I've been brought up on direct screen access, direct sound access, cpu cycle optimisations etc. As such the 9210 strikes me as a wonderful platform to test myself on.

[quote="SwitchBlade"]I suppose it all depends on upbringing, I've been brought up on direct screen access, direct sound access, cpu cycle optimisations etc. As such the 9210 strikes me as a wonderful platform to test myself on.[/quote]

I suggest that you read the article on the Symbian website "A shoot'em up for the Nokia 9200 Communicator series Communicator". In this article, the author shows one how to get almost direct screen access as well as some assembler notes.

Chris

I must say that I agree with most of the shareware/freeware comments made here.

(Chris thinks very carefully about what to say next since someone may realise the he has a shareware app in the market distributed by one of the "houses such as Neuon promising the earth and asking for the moon on a stick to see it work fully".)

I am one that hates crippled software. How can one fully evaluate an application if one can not use all the features. I can live with time limited software, provided that the time limit is reasonably, and that the limit is automatically extended each time a new version is available. I absolutely hate and refuse to buy any software where the registration code is somehow connected to the device (e.g. IMEA or serial number).

Since I mostly write application for myself, I will distribute them as freeware under certain conditions. If I have to add all sorts of extras that I don't realy want in my application, but it is usefull for other users, then I start thinking shareware.

Chris

Chris,

Hey, it takes all kinds to write software and personally it's the monolithic image I don't get on with from the big facelss companies. For example, I have no idea what app you;ve got out. Which is it?

One thing FreEPOC try to do is identify individual authors (hence the About Us page and authors aleays credited whereever possible).

And I think you're ideas on where shareware lie, while not the original concept, is a perfectly reasonable middle ground. As to machine specific registration, I think as long as the authors are prepared to send out replkacement codes as required with no hassle, then they're okay with me.

Just.

Ewan,

That will be nFTP.

Ah-ha! Have to say in my mind RMRFTP won out, but both worked perfectly. Can;t remember why now. Am I right in thinking that nFTP was packaged with the netpad? Now THATS what the big boys should be doing. SUpport the little folk by taking the best and packaging it for everyone to see.

Any plans for 9210 apps? nFTP (or similar) would be a useful addition, but if you started with a better FIle Manager first, I'd be very happy.

Different designs. RMRFTP did have all the bells and whistles. nFTP is a smaller client. Both did the job. You remember right. nFTP was licensed by Psion Teklogix for distribution to their clients. It was included in the Italian netBook ROM released earlier this year. If I understand them correctly, it will be included on the CD distributed with a netBook and netPad.

I do have plans for the 9210. I'm still thinking about nFTP and it will probably be ported depending on demand (and if I can get the dial-in server of Win98 to accept a direct cable connection 😞 ).

Currently I'm working on an application to make my life a little easier. It replaces desk, internet, office and extras and is basically a combination of some of the better features of other apps (active desk, smart profiles, task switcher). I have not decided if this will be available to anybody other than myself.

Chris

I would be very interested in the app you are developing! I use Switcher and I am using Active Desk on trial. If you can improve on Active Desk, it would be a crime to keep your app to yourself!

What sort of timeframe are you looking at?

Let me be the 1st to volunteer to help you with alpha / beta testing!

I may even be able to help with some suggestion for features if u are interested

[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]
Hey, it takes all kinds to write software and personally it's the monolithic image I don't get on with from the big facelss companies. [/quote]

I think the idea of knowing who the team behind the apps are, and I don't just mean only the names, creates a more human side to the software. Being able to click a link to the software author's name on the site which has a photo and or description of their other interests and stuff makes you feel like the app was written by a person not a machine in an office somewhere. Take for example Cannon Fodder by Sensible Software which had greyscale images of the production team dressed up in army outfits to fit in with the theme of the game, along with a shot of the whole team, it was amusing but also showed a more human side to the company. The same with old shareware, the fileid.diz file normally contained info on the team that worked on the app, and the intro to the app often told you who did what for it even if only in a short scroll text.

Individual coders, musicians, and graphicians don't seem to get the credit they are due anymore and I suppose I left this off of my rant, but what the hell, that's life.

[quote="cmatthee"]
I suggest that you read the article on the Symbian website "A shoot'em up for the Nokia 9200 Communicator series Communicator". In this article, the author shows one how to get almost direct screen access as well as some assembler notes.

Chris[/quote]

Thanks a lot that looks very helpful.

I Agree 110%
Seriously, some author of CRIPLED "shareware" are IMHO missing a lot's of sales by asking price that are far too high, secundo they are NOT HELPING the community to develop.

Take the average PC games, here in Canada let's say 35$USD

A Shareware author often advertise is game for free on numerous forum, he do a quick sale over the net. and he still ask for 70 % if not more of the PC games prices ? 😮

If the palm platform is so successfull it's because the average software price is less 10$, a very pricey one is 20$. And a lot's are free or full evaluation version (try before you buy!).

Software should be priced at a level people can aford, else you will see more and more people "sharing" 😮ops: their stuff.

And this will not help the Nokia 92X0 Comunity either!

It's sad because there is people like freepoc's who do their best and other who just see $$$. Programmer deserve their money, but maybe they should be more realistic when fixing their price. 😉

Maybe we should start refering to applications as trialware if the user is expected to register (and pay for) the application after a trial period. This would then apply to both time limited and non time limited fully working applications.

Crippleware is already a term used by everyone (except the author) for applications that does not allow the user the full functionality.

Freeware should be obvious. The app must be fully working and FREE.

Then shareware can be used for what it was intended.

Chris

Don't forget charityware, smileware, clothesware, demoware and rip-off ware that people have tried to use so they don't have to use the word shareware and then look silly when you can't use it 😉

[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]demoware[/quote]

Now given that there are those that do, and do not know of the demo scene, demoware is a very confusing name as all demos are freeware. If you don't know what I'm talking about www.scene.org is the be all and end all of the PC demo scene.

P.s. 600 posts, woo.

[quote="SwitchBlade"]P.s. 600 posts, woo.[/quote]
PPS 9th Place overall and rising...