I will give a rough outline of an application that I need to get signed. Can
anybody please give me tips on how this application can get signed?
It is an enterprise application - for company employees only. The
application does several things:
1) It is part assest management. The application keeps track of the cell
phones location etc. etc.
2) Cost Control - The application can cut of conversations not on a white
list. There are however a few rules
a) After 8pm to 7am a total of 60 minutes of calls can be made to
any number.
b) Numbers in range of the company switchboard is always allowed
c) etc. etc. (The exact rules are still being tweaked)
3) For the assest management & cost control component the application
communicated via a private IAP
to servers. Several things can happen here - messages are downloaded,
whitelists updated etc.
4) These components start at boot time using a custom recognizer. They are
packaged in a single exe.
5) The company would rather have the phones disabled than not run these
applications - a error in any one of them should lock the phone down - for
that an EXTREMELY simple exe also start at boottime. It checks whether the
other exe are running (check for process and activity). The way this
component disables the phone: it launches an .app which displays a message
and turns the phone off. If the .app cannot be loaded the phone is turned
off.
6) A simple .app allows the user to update his timesheet. It is integrated
with the camera (the exact details I cannot give - let us just say it
prevents fraud)
This might not sound like much - but it will have a dramatic effect on the
way the business operate.
1) Testing this at a test house is impossible. The fact that the test house
is in a different country on another network makes the whole private gateway
scenario somewhat impossible. The IT guys are not going to publish the
assest management server on the internet - no matter how much we beg.
2) The software violates some of the rules for getting signed - when memory
is low and nothing can be done about it the software disables the phone. If
the servers could not be contacted for any length of time the phone is
disabled etc. etc.
3) There are no guidelines for people to test .exe's
4) It is not clear if each .exe needs to be signed or the whole .sis file
can be signed.
5) Support problems is our helpdesk's. We specifically instruct users to
phone our helpdesk instead of the network's helpdesk.
If anybody can talk me through the process to get this signed I would be
eternally greatful
Regards,
Johan du Plessis
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:07:27 -0000, Johan du Plessis
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I will give a rough outline of an application that I need to get signed.
> Can
> anybody please give me tips on how this application can get signed?
>
> It is an enterprise application - for company employees only. The
> application does several things:
> 1) It is part assest management. The application keeps track of the cell
> phones location etc. etc.
> 2) Cost Control - The application can cut of conversations not on a white
> list. There are however a few rules
> a) After 8pm to 7am a total of 60 minutes of calls can be made to
> any number.
> b) Numbers in range of the company switchboard is always allowed
> c) etc. etc. (The exact rules are still being tweaked)
> 3) For the assest management & cost control component the application
> communicated via a private IAP
> to servers. Several things can happen here - messages are downloaded,
> whitelists updated etc.
> 4) These components start at boot time using a custom recognizer. They
> are
> packaged in a single exe.
> 5) The company would rather have the phones disabled than not run these
> applications - a error in any one of them should lock the phone down -
> for
> that an EXTREMELY simple exe also start at boottime. It checks whether
> the
> other exe are running (check for process and activity). The way this
> component disables the phone: it launches an .app which displays a
> message
> and turns the phone off. If the .app cannot be loaded the phone is turned
> off.
You really should permit emergency, and helpdesk, calls in this state.
In some countries being able to make an emergency call is a legal
requirement so a signer may be more reluctant to sign an app that prevents
emergency calls.
> 6) A simple .app allows the user to update his timesheet. It is
> integrated
> with the camera (the exact details I cannot give - let us just say it
> prevents fraud)
>
>
> This might not sound like much - but it will have a dramatic effect on
> the
> way the business operate.
>
> 1) Testing this at a test house is impossible. The fact that the test
> house
> is in a different country on another network makes the whole private
> gateway
> scenario somewhat impossible. The IT guys are not going to publish the
> assest management server on the internet - no matter how much we beg.
> 2) The software violates some of the rules for getting signed - when
> memory
> is low and nothing can be done about it the software disables the phone.
> If
> the servers could not be contacted for any length of time the phone is
> disabled etc. etc.
> 3) There are no guidelines for people to test .exe's
> 4) It is not clear if each .exe needs to be signed or the whole .sis file
> can be signed.
> 5) Support problems is our helpdesk's. We specifically instruct users to
> phone our helpdesk instead of the network's helpdesk.
>
> If anybody can talk me through the process to get this signed I would be
> eternally greatful
>
> Regards,
> Johan du Plessis
>
>
I suspect a key point is that use of the software is a condition of
getting a phone.
However you do need to consider the case of your app being accidently, or
maliciously, installed on a non-company phone. This needs to be more than
non-availability of the .sis file - you need to have a phone specific
"license", or successfull connection to your asset tracking system as a
known phone.
You also need to make sure that onece the phone has locked down you can
fix the problem on the phone.
--
Alan Montgomery
/"\
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign
X against HTML mail
/ \ and postings - est. June 1998
Ok - the phone is switched off when locked down. It is classified as a
defective phone because some of the components do not work - the requirement
is that emergency calls can be made from a WORKING phone.
Secondly - a range of numbers are whitelisted for this purpose. So emergency
calls are always available.
Should the application mal-function it is easy enough to fix - override the
start-up sequence. If all else fails a reset of the onboard drive is done.
All this is good and well but it does not address my issue - how to get this
application signed. How is a test house going to test it. What if its
functionality is of such a kind that it will ALWAYS fail certain tests?
The only solution I can think of is us signing the applications ourselves -
with a possible certificate install on each device. The question is of
course is how do we get our own certification certificate?
"Alan Montgomery" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news😮[email protected]...
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:07:27 -0000, Johan du Plessis
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I will give a rough outline of an application that I need to get signed.
>> Can
>> anybody please give me tips on how this application can get signed?
>>
>> It is an enterprise application - for company employees only. The
>> application does several things:
>> 1) It is part assest management. The application keeps track of the cell
>> phones location etc. etc.
>> 2) Cost Control - The application can cut of conversations not on a white
>> list. There are however a few rules
>> a) After 8pm to 7am a total of 60 minutes of calls can be made to
>> any number.
>> b) Numbers in range of the company switchboard is always allowed
>> c) etc. etc. (The exact rules are still being tweaked)
>> 3) For the assest management & cost control component the application
>> communicated via a private IAP
>> to servers. Several things can happen here - messages are downloaded,
>> whitelists updated etc.
>> 4) These components start at boot time using a custom recognizer. They
>> are
>> packaged in a single exe.
>> 5) The company would rather have the phones disabled than not run these
>> applications - a error in any one of them should lock the phone down -
>> for
>> that an EXTREMELY simple exe also start at boottime. It checks whether
>> the
>> other exe are running (check for process and activity). The way this
>> component disables the phone: it launches an .app which displays a
>> message
>> and turns the phone off. If the .app cannot be loaded the phone is turned
>> off.
>
>
> You really should permit emergency, and helpdesk, calls in this state.
> In some countries being able to make an emergency call is a legal
> requirement so a signer may be more reluctant to sign an app that prevents
> emergency calls.
>
>
>> 6) A simple .app allows the user to update his timesheet. It is
>> integrated
>> with the camera (the exact details I cannot give - let us just say it
>> prevents fraud)
>>
>>
>> This might not sound like much - but it will have a dramatic effect on
>> the
>> way the business operate.
>>
>> 1) Testing this at a test house is impossible. The fact that the test
>> house
>> is in a different country on another network makes the whole private
>> gateway
>> scenario somewhat impossible. The IT guys are not going to publish the
>> assest management server on the internet - no matter how much we beg.
>> 2) The software violates some of the rules for getting signed - when
>> memory
>> is low and nothing can be done about it the software disables the phone.
>> If
>> the servers could not be contacted for any length of time the phone is
>> disabled etc. etc.
>> 3) There are no guidelines for people to test .exe's
>> 4) It is not clear if each .exe needs to be signed or the whole .sis file
>> can be signed.
>> 5) Support problems is our helpdesk's. We specifically instruct users to
>> phone our helpdesk instead of the network's helpdesk.
>>
>> If anybody can talk me through the process to get this signed I would be
>> eternally greatful
>>
>> Regards,
>> Johan du Plessis
>>
>>
>
> I suspect a key point is that use of the software is a condition of
> getting a phone.
>
> However you do need to consider the case of your app being accidently, or
> maliciously, installed on a non-company phone. This needs to be more than
> non-availability of the .sis file - you need to have a phone specific
> "license", or successfull connection to your asset tracking system as a
> known phone.
> You also need to make sure that onece the phone has locked down you can
> fix the problem on the phone.
>
>
>
> --
> Alan Montgomery
>
> /"\
> \ / ASCII ribbon campaign
> X against HTML mail
> / \ and postings - est. June 1998[/color]
"Johan du Plessis" <[email protected]>
wrote in message news:ZIVdLiE8FHA.2212@extapps30...
> Ok - the phone is switched off when locked down. It is classified as a
> defective phone because some of the components do not work - the
> requirement is that emergency calls can be made from a WORKING phone.
>
> Secondly - a range of numbers are whitelisted for this purpose. So
> emergency calls are always available.
>
> Should the application mal-function it is easy enough to fix - override
> the start-up sequence. If all else fails a reset of the onboard drive is
> done.
>
> All this is good and well but it does not address my issue - how to get
> this application signed. How is a test house going to test it. What if its
> functionality is of such a kind that it will ALWAYS fail certain tests?
Most of the functionality can be tested, because most tests are generic. It
test the interworking of the software with the device (can calls be made
after installation, will SMS'es be received, does it leak memory).
> The only solution I can think of is us signing the applications
> ourselves - with a possible certificate install on each device. The
> question is of course is how do we get our own certification certificate?
You only *must* sign the app when it cannot be installed on a device if it
is unsigned. If that isn't the case, I wouldn't bother.
You can become a self-signing ISV. But this costs, about EUR 10.000,-- I
believe.
--
Sander van der Wal
www.mBrainSoftware.com
>
> "Alan Montgomery" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news😮[email protected]...[color=green]
>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:07:27 -0000, Johan du Plessis
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> I will give a rough outline of an application that I need to get signed.
>>> Can
>>> anybody please give me tips on how this application can get signed?
>>>
>>> It is an enterprise application - for company employees only. The
>>> application does several things:
>>> 1) It is part assest management. The application keeps track of the cell
>>> phones location etc. etc.
>>> 2) Cost Control - The application can cut of conversations not on a
>>> white
>>> list. There are however a few rules
>>> a) After 8pm to 7am a total of 60 minutes of calls can be made
>>> to
>>> any number.
>>> b) Numbers in range of the company switchboard is always allowed
>>> c) etc. etc. (The exact rules are still being tweaked)
>>> 3) For the assest management & cost control component the application
>>> communicated via a private IAP
>>> to servers. Several things can happen here - messages are
>>> downloaded,
>>> whitelists updated etc.
>>> 4) These components start at boot time using a custom recognizer. They
>>> are
>>> packaged in a single exe.
>>> 5) The company would rather have the phones disabled than not run these
>>> applications - a error in any one of them should lock the phone down -
>>> for
>>> that an EXTREMELY simple exe also start at boottime. It checks whether
>>> the
>>> other exe are running (check for process and activity). The way this
>>> component disables the phone: it launches an .app which displays a
>>> message
>>> and turns the phone off. If the .app cannot be loaded the phone is
>>> turned
>>> off.
>>
>>
>> You really should permit emergency, and helpdesk, calls in this state.
>> In some countries being able to make an emergency call is a legal
>> requirement so a signer may be more reluctant to sign an app that
>> prevents emergency calls.
>>
>>
>>> 6) A simple .app allows the user to update his timesheet. It is
>>> integrated
>>> with the camera (the exact details I cannot give - let us just say it
>>> prevents fraud)
>>>
>>>
>>> This might not sound like much - but it will have a dramatic effect on
>>> the
>>> way the business operate.
>>>
>>> 1) Testing this at a test house is impossible. The fact that the test
>>> house
>>> is in a different country on another network makes the whole private
>>> gateway
>>> scenario somewhat impossible. The IT guys are not going to publish the
>>> assest management server on the internet - no matter how much we beg.
>>> 2) The software violates some of the rules for getting signed - when
>>> memory
>>> is low and nothing can be done about it the software disables the phone.
>>> If
>>> the servers could not be contacted for any length of time the phone is
>>> disabled etc. etc.
>>> 3) There are no guidelines for people to test .exe's
>>> 4) It is not clear if each .exe needs to be signed or the whole .sis
>>> file
>>> can be signed.
>>> 5) Support problems is our helpdesk's. We specifically instruct users to
>>> phone our helpdesk instead of the network's helpdesk.
>>>
>>> If anybody can talk me through the process to get this signed I would be
>>> eternally greatful
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Johan du Plessis
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I suspect a key point is that use of the software is a condition of
>> getting a phone.
>>
>> However you do need to consider the case of your app being accidently, or
>> maliciously, installed on a non-company phone. This needs to be more than
>> non-availability of the .sis file - you need to have a phone specific
>> "license", or successfull connection to your asset tracking system as a
>> known phone.
>> You also need to make sure that onece the phone has locked down you can
>> fix the problem on the phone.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alan Montgomery
>>
>> /"\
>> \ / ASCII ribbon campaign
>> X against HTML mail
>> / \ and postings - est. June 1998[/color]
>
>[/color]