It's the big, big Nokia E61i/E90 comparison...

While on the subject on form factors. Isn't it correct to say that another huge advantage of the e90 is that it has all the advantages of qwerty as well as keypad smartphones.
What would really be interesting is if the Nseries would come out with a qwerty phone. This would seem to go against their multimedia focus but the e90 totally encroaches on all the Nseries territory.

Indeed, the article many of us have been waiting for, but maybe the E61i is a little underrated?

As a long time Psion 3, 3mx, 5, 5mx, 7, and communciator user, I took the plunge about 6 weeks ago to the E61i and, after about a 3 week adjustment, I can't believe how good this phone is!

One adjusts to the keyboard size relatively quickly and it's easily good enough for mobile use. And Steve, you have gone on record in sayng the keyboard is hardly better on the E90.

The screen may be smaller, but it's plenty large enough for what most people will need on the road, even with my failing eyesight!

But the killer for me is the practicality - one handed operation is not just possible but absolutely pleasurable! And the thickness!! (or should that be thin-ness) - it is so comfortable to hold and to have in one's trouser/shirt pocket. And it's a lot lighter on the wallet too!

It's hard to say this, but the longer I look at the E90, and the more I hear of it, the more I'm appreciating my E61i, and thinking the days of "clamshelling" are at last over for me!

I'll use a laptop if I want real Office apps and take my E61i for doing everything else, thanks! Anyone want to buy a 4 month old 9300i? 😊

The E61 is great, and it's really good value too as it launched for half the price of the E90. The one thing I'd want to improve on the E61 though is the resolution, the screen is physically so large I wish they'd gone for the full VGA rather than QVGA, and hopefully they'll do that on whatever model succeeds it (presumably they'll call it the E63?).

"What would really be interesting is if the Nseries would come out with a qwerty phone."

The problem is that the QWERTY phone market is mostly made up of business users at the moment, and Nokia's concentrated all its business phones in its Enterprise division, who do Eseries.

Most companies try to avoid different divisions making exactly the same kind of product as it duplicates lots of costs to very little advantage. It's like a hospital not wanting two doctors to treat the same patient at the same time.

If Nokia Multimedia (who do Nseries) wanted to do a QWERTY phone, they would have to find a different market for it, perhaps try to make it a leisure accessory of some kind. No one knows if there is such a market though.

"This would seem to go against their multimedia focus but the e90 totally encroaches on all the Nseries territory."

Many phone enthusiasts will no doubt buy an E90 instead of an Nseries model, but most mainstream customers still prefer smartphones that look like phones rather than computers. You and I might think the E90 is cool in terms of features, but the real sales come from phones that are smaller and have a normal keypad.

"WMA support in E90 means you can rip CDs with Media Player"

Media Player allows ripping CDs also in mp3 format, so there is no problem. I'm using as default CD ripper.

I meant using it for ripping to the much more space-efficient WMA format...

Steve (posted from E90)

The most important audio codec is flac (Free, Lossless, Audio Codec) flac.sourceforge.net). (For compressed audio, try Ogg Vorbis (vorbis.com)).

If users do not insist on using the best codecs, we will get all the D.R.M. hassles that companies want to stick up our headphone jacks.

"If users do not insist on using the best codecs, we will get all the D.R.M. hassles that companies want to stick up our headphone jacks."

I don't think 95% of users even know what the word codec means. 😊

My point being this, I have heard a lot of people talk about Clamshelling versus owning the E61i. I have the E61 and have never owned a communicator.

The question is this, can you really rate one hand use of old communicators against the E90, if you have never used a S60 based communicator. I thought the older ones were severely limited in functionality (while closed). Am I right or wrong?

Further more, the amount of one hand use I used to get out of my 6620 and other S60 phones is nothing like the E61. ITs almost like an apple to orange comparison with any of these phones.

I expect the S60 portion of the E90 to really give me the best of both worlds where the older communicators I am thinking would have failed poorly. I do a lot of SMS, MMS, in addition to IM chatting , etc etc. I almost always have a computer terminal handy for big jobs, but there are times when I am in an airport and want to check flights that it would be good to have that screen and keyboard.

(quote) "can you really rate one hand use of old communicators against the E90, if you have never used a S60 based communicator"

Well, yes! The communicator is a form factor - s60 or s80 is the platform.

What has surprised me is the ease of use of the E61i coupled with its thin/wide form factor which is really easy to use one handed with that large screen.

The Communicator form factor (E90 or 9300/9500) will always give you a bigger screen and keyboard when open (2 handed) and a smaller screen and keypad when closed.

But for my money the E61i gets the balance between the two just right and at half the price! Maybe I should buy a pair!!!

Like Krisse said, if E63 or what be the name can have a VGA screen, it go be a great little QWERTY device.

Key feature not obvious from the comparison is that fantastic 128MB on RAM on the E90. At least I don't think the E61i has that much.

Zuber

You don't say anything about speed - surely part of the premium paid for the E90 (and N95 come to that) is the 300MHz CPU?

I have had the E61i for 2 months coming from a windows smartphone. Great phone, super batterylife, nice set of apps BUT for that size screen the resolution could have been improved and text for email is small and times tiring to read - no way to increase the text size. And predictive text is missing -this surely cuts down on typing speed. Was Nokia saving a few pennies here> or they just plain forgot. I am looking forward to trying the E90 primarily for the screen resolution, larger text, predictive text but will have to live with the bulk

Hi Steve
Thanks for that, i have decided on the nokia E61i for now and will wait until around December/Jan to upgrade to E90 or another device that might catch my attention.

Oops, thanks all, I've now added a line about RAM and processor speed.

Steve

Just a minor point on the WMA thing. As a result of it's increased efficiency in terms of storage space, it is horribly power-hungry. Playing a track encoded in WMA will use around 60% more power than playing the equivalant track encoded as an MP3 (assuming equal bit-rates etc. etc.).

Given that storage space is very cheap at the moment but battery technology is lagging behind, I would personally go with the most power-efficient over the most storage-efficient every time when it comes to mobile phones. Particularly on the E90 which is, shall we say, "challenged" in that area.

I think the comparison is rather meaningless. These are two different animals when comparing the hardware. The really sad thing is how everyone one is eulogising about this new Communicator when in reality it is a pumped smart phone and nothing more. Why on earth are Nokia abandoning the Series 80 software? The Communicator is a niche device addressing a particular need so how on earth can they load it up with smartphone software? It is nonsensical. You now have a Communicator that addresses many of the hardware shortcomings of the previous models but then abandons the very software that makes it so functional and attractive to the professional user. It cannot be beyond the skills of Nokia to enhance the Series 80 software so it accomodates recent developments but remains primarily a business solution. No year planner on a business phone?...Crazy! And what about all the brilliant 3rd party solutions that have been developed?

Think again Nokia. Lets have an enhanced Series 80 version or ,even better, a dedicated Series 80 Release 2 version only!.

Chrissybear wrote:Indeed, the article many of us have been waiting for, but maybe the E61i is a little underrated?

As a long time Psion 3, 3mx, 5, 5mx, 7, and communciator user, I took the plunge about 6 weeks ago to the E61i and, after about a 3 week adjustment, I can't believe how good this phone is!

One adjusts to the keyboard size relatively quickly and it's easily good enough for mobile use. And Steve, you have gone on record in sayng the keyboard is hardly better on the E90.

The screen may be smaller, but it's plenty large enough for what most people will need on the road, even with my failing eyesight!

But the killer for me is the practicality - one handed operation is not just possible but absolutely pleasurable! And the thickness!! (or should that be thin-ness) - it is so comfortable to hold and to have in one's trouser/shirt pocket. And it's a lot lighter on the wallet too!

It's hard to say this, but the longer I look at the E90, and the more I hear of it, the more I'm appreciating my E61i, and thinking the days of "clamshelling" are at last over for me!

I'll use a laptop if I want real Office apps and take my E61i for doing everything else, thanks! Anyone want to buy a 4 month old 9300i? 😊

TNW wrote:I think the comparison is rather meaningless. These are two different animals when comparing the hardware. The really sad thing is how everyone one is eulogising about this new Communicator when in reality it is a pumped smart phone and nothing more. Why on earth are Nokia abandoning the Series 80 software? The Communicator is a niche device addressing a particular need so how on earth can they load it up with smartphone software? It is nonsensical. You now have a Communicator that addresses many of the hardware shortcomings of the previous models but then abandons the very software that makes it so functional and attractive to the professional user. It cannot be beyond the skills of Nokia to enhance the Series 80 software so it accomodates recent developments but remains primarily a business solution. No year planner on a business phone?...Crazy! And what about all the brilliant 3rd party solutions that have been developed?

Think again Nokia. Lets have an enhanced Series 80 version or ,even better, a dedicated Series 80 Release 2 version only!.

I really think the important issue here is the free memory (80mb according to Steve) and the 330 mhz processor. I have E61, E60 and E70 with slower processors and am temporarily using N95, basically due to speed. It's nearly as fast as Series 40 phones, whilst the oldr Eseries phones' speed frustrates power users. Am really looking forward to E90's processor and more free memory.

Steve,

In your latest smartphones show your tests reveal that the E90's web browser is slower than fp0 S60's. When you conducted your tests, which connection were you using? 3g, wifi, edge?!? I notice in your side by side comparison of the E61i and E90, the E61i is using a 3g connection while the E90 is using wifi. I'm curious to know if the E90 loads pages faster on wifi than the E61i on 3g?

Regards

Very interesing comments and most like spot on!

I have an E70, E61, E65 and E61i but frequently go back to use my 9300i or 9500. I have the found the 9300i and 9500 to out perform the E series for messaging when using either Microsoft Exchange RoadSync and/or BlackBerry for serious non-labtop email usage while traveling.

Also, the 9300i and 9500 both support full FAXING and full CITRIX host access. It is amazing how both the 9300i and 9500 perform with CITRIX.

Thanks for your excellent information and post. FLG>>>

All my web speed tests were over Wi-Fi. Note the comment in the show though, that the E90 still had debug code in its ROM and that the final production firmware should be faster.

Steve

I've the E90. Crazy phone. Does everything.

As with regard to the WMA feature... it means it support PlayForSure, just like the N95 does, so you can download all your favorites from the likes of Napster, Rhapsody, etc in subscription form and enjoy.

what is the trade off here? is there a problem with nokia communicator no longer being a s80 device? I have been using the 9300i quite happly and have assumed that moving to s60 will improve the features etc. At the very least I have been hoping that we do not loose anything much. Could you comment on this because I am seriosly thinking of buying one in the UK? Thanks

I see a lot of posts about smartphone keyboards that insist that the only way to go is Qwerty. Since Qwerty is fast for those who touch type with all 10 fingers, I fail to see what the fuss is all about.

In other words, with any smartphone you are using two fingers (usually your thumbs) at most. How fast you can type versus a touch typist on a full Qwerty keyboard is like comparing a snail to a race-horse. Comparing any other form of two-finger typing (whether Qwerty, stylus, iPhone, virtual keyboard etc) is like seeing which of twelve snails can run the fastest.

It is a stupid comparison. Most of the Blackberry users out there probably cannot even type on a regular keyboard. They just hunt and peck a few words per minute.

Does anyone have any benchmarks for two-thumb typists. 6-10 words per minute is my guess. So what is the point of debating which kind of keyboard is best for a smartphone. Smartphone and dumb typist - It doesn't compute.

Steve, in Vancouver

I think missing specs like GPS,HSDPA,FM dethrones Nokia N61i from the best business phone
in the world!!!!!!

The different form factors enough show us that these phones cant and shouldnt be compared. I have an e61i and do not fancy the e90 at all. I hate clam shells, candy bar all the way. Would we compare a desktop and a laptop? No.
Ever tried doing serious work on e90 without having to place it on a desk? I type full page letters with one hand on my phone.
Wider screen? Yes. Taller? No. In my opinion, the e90 wins because of more memory.
Also, nokia failed in their software bundle. No expense software for business users.
And yes, I typed all this on my phone with one hand

Hi
Just a few points I'd like to make.
Firstly, in the s60 vs s80 debate, I notice no-one has pointed out that the E90 is the first communicator to feature a full OS on the exterior screen. Due to s80's design for widescreen (which works great on the widescreen of old commies), it simply would not work on the smaller exterior screen, so the simplest and most cost effective way for Nokia to make the exterior full-featured would be to run s60 on it, which is largely resolution-independent.

As for raw specs on the E61i vs E90, it DOES make a difference. I own both phones and the E61i will display an out of memory message quite frequently while web browsing, never seen such a thing on the E90.
Menu/message browsing is instant on the E90 while the E61i has to 'think' for abit, but it is bearable, just weird to adjust from the E90 where everything is instant.

Web browsing is also faster on the E90, full stop. Can post comparison video if you want.

I like both very much, but I do find the E61i better for regular usage, its slimmer, lighter, and doesn't get constant shouts of "its a laptop not a phone" whenever I get it out.

EDIT:
On the topic of keyboards, the E90's keyboard is nicer. I can write short stories on the E90 but would never consider it on the E61i. As for one-handed use of the E90, close it.
OT, I think the best mobile querty is the SE P1i, the WPM you can get out of that is amazing.