This is related to the new firmware.
I know it possable for the network to pinpoint the possition of a mobile phone - in fact there are webistes you can subscribe to which allow anyone to see where a mobile phone is. This doesn't require the phone to send any GPRS data and is therefore free from the point of view of the mobile user.
So, I was wondering why the N95 needs to connect to GPRS in order to get its possition, I was hoping it could do this using the data it gets for free....
Not sure if I've exmplained this very well, but hope you know what I'm on about :con?
Thanks 😊
it does not need to connect to gprs to get you position, it needs to connect to loads the map to show you where you are, as maps is like google earth, on the fly map downloads via gprs, as i use sports tracker when i run it gets my position with no gprs connection, unless i select update prog via gprs
I suspect the original poster is referring to assisted gps?
You're confusing a number of things.
All mobile networks can determine the (rough) position of a connected handset by triangulation. This works by measuring the time taken for a signal to reach the handset from a base station (a mast). As long as the handset is connected to three different base stations, triangulation will tell you roughly where it is. The companies that offer this kind of service aren't free, and (in my experience) are not very accurate. If you're out of coverage or not connected to three base stations, triangulation doesn't work.
GPS uses much the same system, but takes readings from satellites orbiting the Earth. The satellites are designed for just this purpose, so they cover the whole world and are very accurate. Using them is free, and they have nothing to do with mobile networks.
GPS needs a lot of heavy maths to work properly, and a strong signal. A-GPS (assisted GPS) is a system that pushes a lot of the maths and signal requirements off to a server that is very good at determining positions from limited amounts of data. This is the system that Nokia has added to the N95 with the latest firmware. The N95's built-in GPS sends a small amount of data to the server over the mobile network (for which you're charged data fees), and the server sends back positioning information quicker than the N95 could gather and calculate on its own. You're also charged for this return data.
The N95 has support for all these methods. Tools/Settings/General/Positioning. The first (Network based) has to be supported by the mobile network provider, and I don't think anyone in the UK does so. Integrated GPS is a bit slow to start off with, but is free. And A-GPS will cost you small amounts of data. But if you haven't already got a data plan that can absorb a few hundred kilobytes of extra traffic, the N95 is not for you.
rutter wrote:I suspect the original poster is referring to assisted gps?
I believe so... Because N95 with V12, use aGPS, and that uses GPRS data traffic.
robgreb wrote:You're confusing a number of things.All mobile networks can determine the (rough) position of a connected handset by triangulation. This works by measuring the time taken for a signal to reach the handset from a base station (a mast). As long as the handset is connected to three different base stations, triangulation will tell you roughly where it is. The companies that offer this kind of service aren't free, and (in my experience) are not very accurate. If you're out of coverage or not connected to three base stations, triangulation doesn't work.
GPS uses much the same system, but takes readings from satellites orbiting the Earth. The satellites are designed for just this purpose, so they cover the whole world and are very accurate. Using them is free, and they have nothing to do with mobile networks.
GPS needs a lot of heavy maths to work properly, and a strong signal. A-GPS (assisted GPS) is a system that pushes a lot of the maths and signal requirements off to a server that is very good at determining positions from limited amounts of data. This is the system that Nokia has added to the N95 with the latest firmware. The N95's built-in GPS sends a small amount of data to the server over the mobile network (for which you're charged data fees), and the server sends back positioning information quicker than the N95 could gather and calculate on its own. You're also charged for this return data.
The N95 has support for all these methods. Tools/Settings/General/Positioning. The first (Network based) has to be supported by the mobile network provider, and I don't think anyone in the UK does so. Integrated GPS is a bit slow to start off with, but is free. And A-GPS will cost you small amounts of data. But if you haven't already got a data plan that can absorb a few hundred kilobytes of extra traffic, the N95 is not for you.
This is great, I undertsand that perfectly! Thanks very much.
Even though network based possitioning isn't very accurate, I guess it will still speed up the lock to some extent - so do you know when the networks will start offering this?
I've not updated my firmware to the latest version - which of the two types of assistance will be added if I upgrade?
You get assisted GPS with v12 firmware....
BanziBarn wrote:This is great, I undertsand that perfectly! Thanks very much. Even though network based possitioning isn't very accurate, I guess it will still speed up the lock to some extent - so do you know when the networks will start offering this?
I've not updated my firmware to the latest version - which of the two types of assistance will be added if I upgrade?
A-GPS is probably the way forward. I doubt any network will bother opening up their triangulation data for free. Google "e-911" and "e-112" for more details of how positioning will become a legal requirement, but probably not for end users.
Every N95 has the Network-based and Integrated GPS options (but, as noted, Network-based doesn't work in the UK). Only v12 firmware ones have A-GPS.
Upgrading is usually straightforward, but remember it will wipe your phone, so make sure you have a backup or can reinstall everything.
One more question.
Do I need any support from my network provider to use A-GPS successfully
or is the network only used for data transmition between Nokia server and my mobile?
The mobile network is only used for data transmission, and plays no role in finding you.
Thanks for response. I wanted to make sure of it,
as I can read on this forum that many of you can get a fix inside a building.
Unfortunatelly, I could't get it both at work and home.
Moreover, a fix is still weak (unstable) when I close a slider.
You should of course not close the slider since the GPS is located at the bottom of the phone under the keys. A-GPS does still rely on the GPS to get info from some sattelites, it assists the GPS but can't replace it. If the GPS does not get any signals at all, A-GPS can't assist (this may also be the answer to why you can't get a lock inside your building).
My internal GPS with AGPS can get a (not very accurate!) lock indoors with slider closed.
I used to have to hold phone with slider open to use nokia sports tracker, making it useless for me. now I can shut slider and shove it in my pocket and sports tracker stays accurate, a massive improvement.
srw985 wrote:My internal GPS with AGPS can get a (not very accurate!) lock indoors with slider closed.I used to have to hold phone with slider open to use nokia sports tracker, making it useless for me. now I can shut slider and shove it in my pocket and sports tracker stays accurate, a massive improvement.
Yeah, I'm really starting to like the GPS on N95 since latest firmware and AGPS. Before 12.x the GPS wasn't very reliable. On some occasions when I really needed the GPS I never could get a lock. Now I always get a lock/position more or less instantly (<1 min). This morning it took only 15 sec...!! :icon14:
robgreb wrote: All mobile networks can determine the (rough) position of a connected handset by triangulation. This works by measuring the time taken for a signal to reach the handset from a base station (a mast). As long as the handset is connected to three different base stations, triangulation will tell you roughly where it is. .
Thats a very suprising bit of info... where did it come from? Uranus? :tongue:
I was under the impression mobile phones were attached to only one base station using the 1 transceiver in the handset. Mobiles have a 2nd receiver that looks for a stronger signal when the main transceiver is on a weak signal.
When did they start installing 3 transceivers in mobiles?
Is anyone here on Orange and can tell me if A-GPS works for them?
Since updating to the new firmware I've seen no improvement to my GPS, it still taking as long to find my location as pre version 12.
If you are on Orange and it does work, what data connection are you using?
Thanks
Jonathan