So Nokia's Nseries PC Suite 2.0 has finally limped out, a whopping 350MB download, of which 200MB is Microsoft's .NET modules. Has the world gone mad? The core PC Suite modules are around 25MB, plus maybe another 25MB for Lifeblog, the Map Loader and Software Updater. Read on for my rant and some links...
Read on in the full article.
Hehehe, somehow I have expected this to happen sooner or later. No much of a problem though, since even the first version of the PC Suite has not been very usable.
"horrible stuff". pc suite has always been a crap software: caotic layout, bad engeneered and slow. and was bloated enough at 25+ mb, already (remember this is NOT autocad nor photoshop nokia, just a frontend to your phones!). Distributing sluggish .net applications in such ENORMOUS package is simply disregarding towards customers.
Get your act togheter NOKIA, your handhelds are top notch, but software wise you are plain shit
Not really a surprise, looking at how they messed up that Download! application that went Beta a few weeks ago ...
It's a real shame that Nokia won't listen to and learn from their customer's comments. I reckon the person who's doing the hiring in their software development department should be the first one to be fired.
look at the bright side, it's a beta, so if we consumers complain like we're doing now, they'll probably change it!
There is no doubt there are some sensible software designers at Nokia that (very slowly) turn out good apps. I'm thinking primarily of the Podcasting Client which is very promising and probably the app I appreciate the most.
In a similar way, their Mac software is good. It was a long time coming and the first attempts were quite terrible. I wondered if I'd ever have a good way to sync my N95 with iTunes. But now we have Nokia Multimedia Transfer which has a small impact on my screen and operates in a well thought-out way to sync my music, photos and videos with my iLife software and iTunes. It's also regularly updated.
But yes: their Windows development people need a kick up the bum.
I think its a bit unfair to be completely critical at this stage, after all it is still in beta.
Au contraire: I think the one reason to realese a beta build to the public is to collect some voices from the community. Also: The criticised aspects of the N-Series Suite are fundamental - it will still need .net, it will still perform slow, it will still be bloated when officially launched. Here's hoping it won't crash on Vista 64 at startup.
A Beta version should be nearly complete. Judging from this build, there can be only one verdict: This here is a desaster.
Which is a pity, honestly. I like the Nokia Photo app, which seems like a well-designed replacement for lifeblog. I like the overall look and feel.
Is there really anything in new functionality in 2.0? So far, i haven't found anything apart from some apps you had to install yourself in the past, like the maploader and stuff like the very ugly Orb.
You get the same features from the standart pc suite, and a lot more stable too. That one looks dated, but, well... look, it also has some usable stuff the N-Series one has not - Phone browser, for example!
I think its a bit unfair to be completely critical at this stage, after all it is still in beta.
Oh I'm not saying its not a relevant point, but it is in beta.
I don't know enough about .NET to say whether it is to blame or not - I used some .NET applications which have been very fast. And of course we don't know which applications are actually using .NET or not.
I doubt the .NET run time will be included in the final package (unless you need it). e.g. the current download of PC Suite lets you choose a wizard options versus direct download. I would have though this wizard could be modified to let you download exactly what you need. Moreover I imagine most installation instances will be using the CD that comes with a phone.
I do have concerns over performance, but I also think there's something to be said for the refined interface. Remember the vast majority of people using PC Suite are not power users and so making things better for them, would, I assume be Nokia's first priority. Many of these users would not download individual tools separately so integrating them into PC Suite (Maps Loader etc.) makes a lot of sense. The unified look and feel is a good idea. The PC Suite is clearly trying to tie in with the ideas behind Ovi - that's good - but there is plenty of work to do.
"No much of a problem though, since even the first version of the PC Suite has not been very usable."
The recent versions of PC Suite seem fine to me...
Yes, recent version have been usable. For Outlook users.
Esp. the N-Series has been marketed for multimedia users, bloggers, etc, compared to the business-oriented E-series. E-Series phones: Outlook sync, Blackberry mail - great.
But why does my N95 only synch calendar data with Outlook and Notes (IIRC)? Why no iCal/Google Calendar? Why not the tools windows already as built in, like the windows calendar? No Firefox/Thunderbird/Sunbird support at all, the stuff non-business people actually DO use a lot?
So i - as a non-corporate user- really have to buy Outlook or get an exchange server (hey, i get Exchange support for free, after all!) to synch my data? Can't understand that, really.
DenisB:
Do you know that you can get a free hosted Exchange account? No need to run the server, no need to install any sync software on a PC. You can then access your calendar and contacts and email from any web browser just the same as if you use Google services. Of course you can then also get free push email using Mail for Exchange.
Go to www.mail2web.com.
I've been using the service for about a year now.
xerxes
Just a post in defense of .net (not m$ tho, i've got pleny of other bones to pick with them). If 200 megs is .net framework, Nokia must be installing the whole .net sdk, not just the runtimes! Am 100% confident this will be a lot smaller by release. The first thing any installer should do is check if .net runtime is already installed, which on 90 percent of windows machines is a yes (of course, it does depend on which version etc). I am a .net developer, and can assure you, the framework for v2 is about 25 megs to install, is probably already installed on your computer, and the apps created using the framework have no excuse for being huge. there are plenty of great .net apps that are a few megabytes. A well written .net app can be 99.99% as responsive as 'native' code, and is inherently safer and easier to maintain (an attribute lending itself to higher quality software). And finally, imo, slamming an app based on beta code is a pretty poor effort, there has to be something more newsworthy than a *shock* buggy/bloated beta.
The use of .Net as the application framework is, in fact, one of the best things any company could choose to do for Windows development.
Apart from the inherent security, memory management and other benefits, the majority of applications written in .Net run no slower than a regular MFC application on my Pentium 4 (so, no multimedia monsters here).
If you have a problem with the Nokia interface, or the application itself, just say that. Don't start mouthing off about things that you clearly aren't qualified to write about.
xerxes wrote:DenisB:Do you know that you can get a free hosted Exchange account
I am using it at the moment, quite happy with it in fact. Still, thanks for the link!
Well, the fact the the software DOES in fact use far more resources than before, is prone to crash in some circumstances - that is enough for most of the end users to say: "Please, a complete PC Suite which lets me use my extremely expensive and in theory extremely powerful smartphone to the max would make more sense to me than a bloated, redesigned version with fewer features. Give me the former."
How do you sell stuff like that to your customer?
So, let me rephrase the headline:" Nokia - ditch that very badly programmed .NET Suite". Better? Plus, there is the very real problem of current versions of .NET not running well on many systems.
Nokia could code it in LOGO, if they so choose. Really, i don't care, as long as it does it's job well.
Yeah, ok, so I was being a bit provocative. But as Denis says, we don't care if there are some well programmed, fast .NET apps out there. We care that this particular one is bloated and slow.
As to the beta status, half the Web is in beta state these days. Beta seems to be something of an alias for 'the first version'. Is Nokia really going to shrink the same suite down from 350MB to 50MB just in the transition from '2.0 beta' to er.... not 2.01 not-beta-anymore?
At least my, Stefan's and Ricky's posts will have given Tommi lots to lead with when he meets his beta team today at work! 8-)
Steve Litchfield
DenisB,
"Plus, there is the very real problem of current versions of .NET not running well on many systems."
Have never come across this problem. However, have found plenty of .net software that is crappily coded (sounds like this nokia pc suite is a good example).. just as there's plenty of crap coded vb apps, native windows apps, java apps.. LOGO software is usually pretty stable tho :P
Steve,
That was a bit provocative! I, for one, am outraged and indifferent!
Cheers -Mike
Plenty of windows applications use .NET, its the developers that cause the bloat not the platform...
Nokia are going the wrong way with their non-phone applications, the interface between the phone should be a simple link between the phone OS and the relevant applications on a PC, MAC or Linux platform. Why develop another Music player, Photo app or file explorer when the OS platforms (or third party developers) already have stable mature products out there. Stick to S60 and the hardware and let the customers decide which application they want to sync to (itunes, wmp, outlook, gcal, ical, photoshop etc...) using a simple interface. They seem to get the picture for OSX (Media transfer with no re-invent the wheel apps!) so why not apply the same to WXP, Vista or Linux?
And why have a different PC suite for the N series? Again the MS way of doing things, several different variations on theme (think Vista options!).
Here's my vision of the ideal PC Suite:
http://cubeover.blogspot.com
I cant believe how screwed up this suite is, i mean i have seen very powerfull programs with like 20mb, this download is near 400mb and sucks big time. My new dual core laptop has actually problems opening it.... Please Nokia, get rid of this and replace it with a proper suite....