UK iPhone versus Nokia N95 8GB

I think despite all the pretences to be looking at this impartially everyone is really extremely emotional when it comes to the iPhone vs N95 debate.

I for one detest the iPhone. Can't say why, there is nothing wrong with except that it is over-hyped and is functionally deficient in a few key features (SMS and telephone calls). Then again, I really want an E90 that appears to suffer from the same issues. Guess I am a Nok-Nok (or whatever nokia fan boys are called)

The problem is that Nokia and Apple (and SE) are strong brands and people tend to gravitate towards one. That's why weak personalities like Macboy are incapable of rationally discussing the short-comings of the iPhone. They see in Apple something they want to be. It doesn't matter what reality is they will love it. For some reason the Apple brand irks me. It doesn't matter if the iPhone is the greatest thing since sliced bread I won't buy it. Fortunately it is a somewhat less than great phone.

However, on a rational basis OSX is far better OS than Symbian. (A. Orlowski might disagree with the following statement but he is Symbian core brand devotee). The Symbian legacy architecture (and unfortunately there is still old code) is dragging down S60 and UIQ. Of course they have also made some bone headed decisions that add extra overhead (which is very counter to the original Symbian) but as much of a "hater" as I am I have been told by many a programmer that OS-X is architecturally elegant and better implemented.

Anyway Apple will struggle in the phone business. The phone product cycles are too short. On an annual release basis (which tends to be Apple's cycle time) they will be out innovated by the Top 5. The N95 is the first Nokia that hasn't been superceded as the flagship within 6 months that I can remember for a while.

And by the by. If apple had brought out the iPhone in 2006 when I believe they were supposed to they *would* be kicking everyone's ass right now. When the iPhone was spec'd the 3G chip-sets were real power hogs... the Product Management was right on but the Product Development didn't deliver.

Steve,
regading integration with a desktop/laptop, you write for the N95 8 GB:

"Full functioned but messy integration with PC Suite and other tools on PC, Nokia Multimedia Transfer, iCal/iSync on Mac, etc."

I have direct experience on a E61i, which I guess is similar to the new version of the N95, save only for Multimedia transfer, and I can say that I experience a "messy" situation only between a PC and my Nokia S60.
Double entries in PIM, deleted entries which will not go away (yes, I got my advanced settings OK in synching with Outlook, thank you), media files which do not transfer etc.

On the other hand, files zip back and from my Mac via BT effortlessly and PIM synching is a breeze via BT (with the free plug-in from Nokia installed, of course). No doubles, no misses, no problems. Only no category preservation on the phone as we know. For the rest, it just works, as the Apple saying goes.
Good work Apple, good job Nokia.
And good old MS? Well, you have guessed by now.
Cheers, SymF

PS: if you think this sounds like a dutiful Apple funboy, please read next posting.

Steve,

you might be forcing too much an equal footing "battle" between the iPhone (in the present offering) and the N95/8GB.
You compare total cost of ownership by pricing the N95 on a similar 35 GBP a month plan.
The snake in the grass with the iPhone is precisely that you are forced on a plan, whereas you can buy a Nokia smartphone SIM-free and you do what you want.
Yes, I know about visual voice mail, etc on the iPhone. Still it sucks.
You add the usual suspects: no 3 (and 3.5) G, fixed battery, very, very limited apps (really do not care if from 3rd party or "certified" by Apple), no editing of docs, etc, etc. And you are not left with much, really.
The capacitive, multi-touch screen is a beauty, the CPU looks (much) faster and interfacing with iTunes (on my Macs) should be a breeze, though.
Good, I will get myself an iPod touch for Christmas.
And cling to paleolithic S60 in my "phone" for the time being.
Cheers,
SymF

@Steve

is it true that on the iPhone if you are using wifi you can't take a call and if you are using EDGE the session is stopped while you take a call? I thought Apple's OS X was multi-tasking?

In terms of understanding what Apple is upto with the iPhone, let us look at what they have done to the ipod. In a crowded market, they have given the users an integrated music player to enjoy. There is a price to pay. Microsoft tried it their way and sunk! So those who continue to buy iPods relish the experience.

Apple has announced a Wifi enabled music download function. that may spell doom for he nokia music initiative. They are only additing a functionality. Not an ecosystem. The system works on an apple because they protect it.

The OS X is a full function UNIX OS. Unlike Symbian. so everything you get form apple works! I'd hate to buy something - music/video/whatever that does not work! Besides they are at a liberty to add OS features/applications that maynot be possible on a N95.

I dont think these two phones are made for the same target. I am a critical music fan and enjoy iTunes/iPod. Dont ever want to go to a nokia. Sound wise it doesn't measure up.

i think you should also mention that the iphone headphone jack is recessed and most 3rd party headsets dont fit

- Fred not dead

OS X is a nice OS but on a mobile phone its frankly a waste of resources, I'd rather have an OS that was designed for my device rather than a desktop OS thats been crippled and shoehorned on. Symbian has been designed specifically for mobile devices and has been kicking about in one form or another for well over a decade, its not trying to be a desktop OS it knows its place and it knows it well. Symbian will continue to evolve and add new features as the market requires them. I don't think Apple will be doing much on the iPhone that wont be possible on Symbian or indeed the N95 for that matter.

If you are such a critical music fan and sound quality is such an issue why have you chosen a player that values style over substance? iPod for all its flashy looks isn't exactly a high quality audio player by any stretch of the imagination.

to be fair Nokia have only just entered the services industry and so in that respect have catching up to do with Apple.

Fred not dead wrote:In terms of understanding what Apple is upto with the iPhone, let us look at what they have done to the ipod. In a crowded market, they have given the users an integrated music player to enjoy. There is a price to pay. Microsoft tried it their way and sunk! So those who continue to buy iPods relish the experience.

Apple has announced a Wifi enabled music download function. that may spell doom for he nokia music initiative. They are only additing a functionality. Not an ecosystem. The system works on an apple because they protect it.

The OS X is a full function UNIX OS. Unlike Symbian. so everything you get form apple works! I'd hate to buy something - music/video/whatever that does not work! Besides they are at a liberty to add OS features/applications that maynot be possible on a N95.

I dont think these two phones are made for the same target. I am a critical music fan and enjoy iTunes/iPod. Dont ever want to go to a nokia. Sound wise it doesn't measure up.

i work for Nokia Music and all i can say is watch this space

I am a die hard Apple AND Nokia supporter. Right from the very first Nokia mobile devices (which I used to sell on the old analogue networks) and the first Apple Classic Machines.

I've had a play with the iPhone and have had my N95 8GB (Amazing deal from Vodafone �435 sim free equivalent) for several days now.

The iPhone is incredibly frustrating to use because of the touchscreen. It just isn't fun to work with and even more frustrating trying to shoot off a quick SMS. MMS? You can't. What is far worse is the lack of 3G let alone 3.5G. Using novamedia.de software you can instantly use your 3.5 Nokia to pair with your laptop (in my case my beloved MacBook) and surf anywhere at broadband speeds...not to mention use your N95 8GB's own browser or email client. You can't do this with the iPhone.

I absolutely LOVE mac products and am always the first to buy their latest device. You'd think that something I could use everyday as a phone would be top on my shopping list. Not in this case. What's the point? I can sync my ical with my Nokia easily. Contacts sync too. I want a decent camera, why would I buy the iphone with it's rubbish and outdated camera?! I can take brilliant pictures and upload them to my flickr instantly with my fantastic Nokia N95 8GB.

The N95 8GB is a good leap forward from the original N95 and is quite simply the best Nokia I've owned, if not the best ever phone. Email is fast and RAM means I don't have any memory problems, the storage is awesome, the camera and flickr fantastic, entry is fast and easy via T9, audio quality bog standard brilliant Nokia.

The only major problem with the N95 8GB is the screen resolution. Why this has not been increased baffles me. If you look at the N73 you'll see that you have the option to view ONE LINE ONLY of messages - WHY IS THIS NOT PRESENT in the new N95 8GB? It means you can only view 5 email headers at a time, not say 20 that you can on the lesser model N73. Crazy!

Otherwise I think this is a case of wait and see...I imagine the iPhone 2 won't allow Nokia to have such an easy ride!

If you need the facilities of an N95 then an iPhone just isn't at the races. If you don't then the iPhone is probably doing to be more fun.

What's the point of comparing what are two different animal? I mean you can ride a horse but you need a terrier to hunt rabbits, so which do you choose?

Depends what you want to do.

I use the N95 and will continue to because the iPhone doesn't allow me to install new apps and use 3G. I'd buy an iPhone if I needed umm, wait..... oh yes a music player with no gaps between tracks. That would make all the difference of course, couldn't live without that.... must go out and buy an iPhone now. Seriously, Nokia could drop gapless into a software update if it was even slightly important. Getting 3G onto the iPhone? There's a challenge.

The difference between the UI is the difference between easy to use and even easier. Perhaps iPhone users in their houses use an elevator to go to bed..

predicaments wrote:
The only major problem with the N95 8GB is the screen resolution. Why this has not been increased baffles me. If you look at the N73 you'll see that you have the option to view ONE LINE ONLY of messages - WHY IS THIS NOT PRESENT in the new N95 8GB? It means you can only view 5 email headers at a time, not say 20 that you can on the lesser model N73. Crazy!

Install the 3rd party email app that suits you best. No need to be constrained to the built in one.

I know this is a symbian website, and trust me, I'm as much a Nokia fan as anyone else, but the feature list comparison isn't really what products are about these days.

People love to point out that product X has 2,000 features and product Y only has 500 - but that doesn't make product X better than Y.
Look at the Nintendo Wii - highly underpowered, much fewer features, but selling 3x as fast as the PS3 and XBox 360.
Take the iPod vs any other MP3 player out there. The iPod will have less features.

I've owned a N95, a E61i, a E65, N73, etc and even considered purchasing a E90. But when you sit down and spend some time with the iPhone - going back to any of these products feels like I'm traveling back in time to the 80's.
The integration with the apps on the phone, the ease of use, and the features of each app are unparalleled.

At some point if you want your comments and reviews to be relevant you're going to have to find another rating method besides - X number of features gets XX points.

Unregistered wrote:and the features of each app are unparalleled.

Errm, wasn't the the point of your post that we don't count features?

I was going to say something here, but there's no point. If there was always a clearly better option then there would only be one product out there.

I am not going to buy an iPhone to hammer in a nail, and I'm not going to go back to the eighties (as someone said) to a 2G phone either.

Horses for courses, my course is the pragmatic one, not the fancy one. Yours is up to you, I couldn't give a flying f...

I find windows media player makes a better music transfer tool than nokia's own efforts. Only problem is if you've recorded your music in aac.

Is it completly taboo to metion a Windows powered phone in here? It seems to me that a comparrison between an all singing all dancing Nokia & an Iphone (clearly something pitched at the uber cool, money doesnt count brigade that want a phone that is a ipod to boot) doesnt seem that fair. Why not compare (excuse the pun) apples with apples & lets see a meeningful comparrison between the N95 & an HTC Kaiser for example. Or is that perhaps being a bit to sensible????????????

"Apple has raised the bar for future smartphone development and it seems to me that future smartphones will be based on touchscreen technology. Conventional keypad will continue to be used for the mass market phones."

Yet interestingly the latest incarnation of Nokia's internet tablet, the N810, has had a sliding keyboard added. With Apple pushing internet access as the major feature for the iPhone has Apple in fact gone in the wrong dirction?

S60 music player sucks (apart from N91) too much background noise and too long gap also processor works too hard (affect battery) look at iPod, iAudio, iRiver even Sony how battery last compare to S60's battery in music only mode (screen off, offline mode)

The iPHONE cost $399 and can easily be unlock and used with your current provider. The N95? $789.00 and it sux!

Steve,

Could you elaborate more on the Vodafone pricing - I had a scan of their site but could not find a similar deal to what you have mentioned.

thnxs.

Owning and using both the iPhone and N95 (original version) everyday, I think music playback on the iPhone is leagues ahead of music playback on the N95...

Someone mentioned gapless playback on the iPhone, something that's very important to serious music listeners (a lot of electronica, jazz and classical music greatly benefits from gapless playback).

The N95 is extremely noisy at low listening volumes (especially with in-ear sound-insulating phones) and overall sound quality is average at best!

Coverflow on the iPhone puts the N95 music playback UI to shame - sorry 😊

Unregistered wrote:Steve,

Could you elaborate more on the Vodafone pricing - I had a scan of their site but could not find a similar deal to what you have mentioned.

thnxs.

On Vodafone the N95 8GB is £400 + £20 for 12 months = £640, clear as you like on their site and then it's yours.

As for music players, it's good enough for me and how many people here have heard the 8GB version? Quite a few judging by how many have commented.

Gapless playback is for the ultra-anal. It's a smartphone and if you want gapless playback and a different user interface, then download an app that has those features. On the N95 or any symbian phone you are not constrained to what ships in the box.

Nokia could fix the gapless and the UI with a software update.

In my opinion, 3G, 3.5G and HSDPA is a million times more important. And these cold days, using the damn phone with gloves on is also very useful.

I realise that you don't follow Apple as closely as Symbian for obvious reasons but its worth pointing out that SJ has announced in an open letter on Apple's hotnews 17/10/07 that Apple will be releasing a full SDK for iPhone & iPod Touch in February 2008 ("Let me just say it: We want native third party applications on the iPhone, and we plan to have an SDK in developers� hands in February. We are excited about creating a vibrant third party developer community around the iPhone and enabling hundreds of new applications for our users. With our revolutionary multi-touch interface, powerful hardware and advanced software architecture, we believe we have created the best mobile platform ever for developers."😉

This should go in the comparison.

Interestingly On-line banking won't work for NatWest site with my Nokia e61 but does work with my ipod Touch.

Competition is good - I look forward to better Nokia and Apple products in the future 😊

The biggest drawback that iphone suffers from is that its owned by Steve Jobs, he's pretty good at selling hot air and that's what he has made out of the iphone when he could've created a serious contender to nokia instead. Some people never learn from their mistakes. I'm sure a similar device from nokia would be ten times more powerful.

We've seen Art meets Intelligence, lets wait for touch meets Intelligence.

Don't forget that the iPhone also has WiFi access through The Cloud, which at �9.99 over 18 months is an extra �180 you can add to the Vodafone tariff.

It would be interesting to compare the iphone and N95 with the just released HTC Tytn 2. I reckon that with its slide out & tilting qwerty keyboard, built in GPS, improved camera, good PC integration and high speed data conection the Tytn 2 would outgun both the iphone and the N95 (and at a decent price).

Those of you that saw this weeks Gadget show, will have seen that they blind tested the N95 8Gb and the iphone music players, using two DJ's who new the track they were listening to intimately.

Both the DJ's said the Nokia had better sound that the iphone.

In my personal oppinon, i think the Nokia is a better bet, as it is not forced to only use the iTunes tunes.

jAy

About those moaning about the gapless playback not avaliable in the N95:

i think the N95 is by far the better equipped music phone. For starters it has a radio (talking about basic) and 3rd party applications for Symbian mean it also has digital radio which you can stream over the 3G network (or HDSPA if you prefer). The N95 is also a more complete music player because it supports stereo bluetooth.

So the nokia music player is obviously better

Well, I'd like to point a few things out.

You claim the web browsing experience is "similarly good" for the Nokia -- but spend any time using the browser in the iPhone, with the two-finger and double-tap zooming and the instantaneous switching between upright and landscape - plus the onscreen landscape-mode keyboard and extra UI for using web forms - and it quickly becomes no contest. The web browsing experience for the iPhone is "good" - and a mere good because of the lack of Flash and Java - while the web browsing experience for the Nokia is "crap"; the same "crap" that web browsing on a phone has been slogging along in for years. Even the way the iPhone _tracks_scrolling_ as you move around the page, and the framerate of that scrolling, are factors that add to the difference.

You also claim that text entry for the Nokia is "relatively inconvenient". It's not just "inconvenient". It's absolute [expletive] torture. Especially compared to a predictive-text keyboard, whose "buttons" are pressed with the lightest tap of a finger instead of the relatively slow application of force with a thumb. Yeah, you could buy a bluetooth keyboard and wedge that in your back pocket, if it will fit, ... but now you've gone and tripled the form factor. Yeech.

But probably the biggest issue I have with your comparison is that you say the iPhone needs to be "pouched/cased by necessity, to protect the touch-screen". I dunno what planet you live on, but around here, iPhone screens are very hard to scratch. Google "iphone scratch" for a pile of videos demonstrating this. (As an aside, the glass plating also helps the clarity of the screen.)

Also, "Real World Experience" does not boil simply down to "Can you use it with one hand." You say that on the Nokia "Almost all operations are easy to accomplish one-handed" ... but seriously, aside from when you are actually talking on the phone (operations that both devices support with one hand just fine) or poking at your music player controls (once again, quite possible with both hands, now that the iPhone defaults to the music interface in various conditions thanks to a firmware upgrade) ... what good is one-handed use? It's agonizing for entering text, crappy for web surfing, crappy for managing your contacts, crappy for searching a map... Which sure as hell doesn't equate with "easy to accomplish", in my book.

Try this for "Real World Experience". Take out an iPhone and an N95 and lay them side by side. Then, pick up each one, in turn, and do the following exercise:

1. Start listening to a random song.
2. Take a picture of your feet.
2. Show your address (which you should have entered as a contact in the phone) on Google Maps.
3. Search for "donuts" in your vicinity
4. Get directions from your place to the donut shop.
5. Call them up and ask if they have Cruller donuts. As you're talking to them, go to their website and see for yourself.
6. Tell the person, "Thanks for answering my question. To show my gratitude, I'm sending you guys a picture of my feet." Hang up.
7. Find the 'contact' email address for the donut shop, and email them the picture of your feet.
8. Stop the song, and note how many seconds have passed.

On an iPhone, I can do this in about two minutes.

J R Bob Dobbs wrote:
Try this for "Real World Experience". Take out an iPhone and an N95 and lay them side by side. Then, pick up each one, in turn, and do the following exercise:

1. Start listening to a random song.
2. Take a picture of your feet.
2. Show your address (which you should have entered as a contact in the phone) on Google Maps.
3. Search for "donuts" in your vicinity
4. Get directions from your place to the donut shop.
5. Call them up and ask if they have Cruller donuts. As you're talking to them, go to their website and see for yourself.
6. Tell the person, "Thanks for answering my question. To show my gratitude, I'm sending you guys a picture of my feet." Hang up.
7. Find the 'contact' email address for the donut shop, and email them the picture of your feet.
8. Stop the song, and note how many seconds have passed.

On an iPhone, I can do this in about two minutes.

That's all well and dandy. I tell you something you can try:

1. Synchronize devices to your iPhone via bluetooth and use it as a hsdpa modem.

2. And while you're at it, those feet of yours, forget emailing it, send it to me as an MMS message, and if you do fathom how to send it as an MMS, wait a moment or two and I'll return an MMS back to you!

How long do you think it would take you to do those two simple tasks on an iPhone?

Happy New Year all.