If Nokia changes your IMEI during warranty, happened to me once. I'd loose all my games. This would be terrible publicity for Nokia and create rather much customer animosity. Surely they will reconsider that part of the policy within the year.
I'd be happy with the drm used with Nokia Maps. Change either IMEI or SIM-card. Change both and make a call to get things fixed manually. Perhaps a time limit of 3 years on drm-transfer would be reasonable. Then again the sheer numbers to be expected between n-gage and low price compared to Nokia Maps might make this commercially not very viable.
(Without reading thru the comments) This really sucks. Even the Zune allows for migrating protected content. So do ALL software developers on all mobile platforms.
I find it hilarious that people complain more over this, than they have when Nokia REMOVED features from the N95 after firmware updates.
Unregistered wrote:I find it hilarious that people complain more over this, than they have when Nokia REMOVED features from the N95 after firmware updates.
We're still VERY happy with our v21 and don't really mind the missing past features. At least not me.
viipottaja wrote:Yep, I got your point and agree with it. All I was trying to say that let's wait and see what the _corporate_ response is - it will probably come in the name of the N-Gage team, but I would be willing to bet is actually a response coordinated at corporate/division level and double checked and triple checked with lawyers and PR specialists etc.
The reponse is (and was) that the reason is preventing piracy and protecting partners value etc. ("As with any digital media there is a potential risk of piracy and this policy is one of the ways Nokia is dealing with piracy and ensuring partners receive their rightful revenues from its platform." - also being quoted to other media who as about this.)
That's a reasonable answer in one sense, but doesn't explain why a system could be designed that allows transfers but still stops piracy. As mentioned in the article Nokia Music manages this just fine.
Its likely about what DRM technologies were / are available (e.g. music uses WM DRM), but perhpas the N-Gage stuff was more limited... Ultimately though this was a predictable issue and should have been a fundamental consideration when building / specifying the DRM requirements.
While this is certainly no news, thanks for drawing attention in proper time.
I have above $100 invested into games on a Symbian platform, and they all are locked to my phone's IMEI.
N-Gage has a chance to change the practice, since the N-Gage policies are controlled centrally by Nokia, unlike the decentralized [but coherent] practices of multitude UIQ, S60 'native' developers.
You have got to believe Nokia is trying to prevent fraudulent use of the game by registering it to the IMEI number of the phone. Registering to one's N-Gage account would not have the same effect.
The question for them is; how much ill will would be created to their customer base by this policy?
You have got to believe Nokia is trying to prevent fraudulent use of the game by registering it to the IMEI number of the phone.
Linking to an IMEI isn't the problem.
The problem is the lack of facility for changing that IMEI when the user upgrades their phone.
As long as there's only one IMEI at a time linked to a game then it shouldn't matter if the user changes it from one to another, but Nokia won't allow this change to happen in any way.
The article made this point many times, does anyone actually read these articles before commenting?! 😉
While this is certainly no news, thanks for drawing attention in proper time.
This is most definitely news! 😊
We got this policy confirmed from Nokia's customer service and from people higher up in the company, which is something no one has done before.
I find it hilarious that people complain more over this, than they have when Nokia REMOVED features from the N95 after firmware updates.
The scandal here is that you have the ENTIRE GAME LIBRARY removed after going to a new phone, not just a feature or two. A library of just 10 games would have cost 100 euros to build up, these aren't small sums of money.
This is something that people aren't warned about properly when they buy games. No one is going to read through a long "terms and conditions" legal document on a mobile phone screen. Whatever DRM they use, Nokia could make the warning much more clear.
Menneisyys wrote:(Without reading thru the comments) This really sucks. Even the Zune allows for migrating protected content. So do ALL software developers on all mobile platforms.
So do Nokia, if you want to move protected maps or music bought from them!
But not games for some reason.
An interesting brandrepublic survey was released recently and republished by a new other media outlets including Which and BBC. It showed Nokia as Britains most loved brand, but NGage was one of the top 5 most hated.
Unregistered wrote:An interesting brandrepublic survey was released recently and republished by a new other media outlets including Which and BBC. It showed Nokia as Britains most loved brand, but NGage was one of the top 5 most hated.
Well, I've been saying for a long time Nokia should never have re-used the "n-gage" brand. It doesn't bring them any kind of benefits, but it does bring a lot of drawbacks and unwelcome baggage.
They should have called the service something like "Nokia Games", to go with Nokia Maps and Nokia Music. As you say, Nokia is a very popular brand in itself and a new name would have emphasised that this was a totally new kind of gaming service.
One of the interesting things in the comments on this story on other sites is that MANY people still think we're talking about the gaming phones from 2003/2004. They don't know that the new N-Gage is a platform rather than a device.
----
People might like to know that BBC News has picked up on our story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7414323.stm
BBC News is one of the most read news site in the world (maybe THE most read?).
I don't think Nokia can possibly ignore this issue any more.
This is the biggest gaming blunder in the world at present. It severely undermine the essence of most of the games, even the much hyped Reset Generation.
If Nokia keep up with it, someone ( Symbian-Freak or any other Freak) is going to sleep on hacking that game-IMEI security system. Probably making something that creates a pseudo- imei number or something.
We might need to take a poll - Reactions of people.
Lucky Nokia doesnt support my country. - still have demos.
If Nokia changes stance ;it'll show how indecisive and impaired their Management is - in return ,serious drop in confidence (in Nokia) by consumers.
Guess they dont like the 'Comes with game' idea. More like game 'stuck in phone' notion.
ChaosFire wrote:If Nokia keep up with it, someone ( Symbian-Freak or any other Freak) is going to sleep on hacking that game-IMEI security system.
Yes, that's what I think as well. If people feel extremely cheated by the legal method of buying games, they may turn to illegal methods.
It's in the list of ten in the article, that honest people may consider using piracy just to keep the games they've already paid for.
Can you imagine Nokia taking someone to court for pirating games they've already bought? If they did that it would severely damage not just Nokia's reputation but the reputation of DRM in general.
krisse wrote:
One of the interesting things in the comments on this story on other sites is that MANY people still think we're talking about the gaming phones from 2003/2004. They don't know that the new N-Gage is a platform rather than a device.
Very true, I was speaking to a friend about it the other day and he thought exactly that.
Wow, even BBC news has covered your story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7414323.stm
Great article in fact and I totally agree with it.
I was reading at AllAboutSymbian about Nokia Maps 2. If I recall correctly, if you pay for this for the maximum (3 years) you will have the same problem as with the N-gage games. Since it's also being connected to the phone's IMEI. Or did I dream about this??
This should also be changed if they go ahead with their OVI portal. We could have a username for all these services (N-gage, Maps...) and we could move our software if we would like to...
Radu
No that is not the case with Nokia Maps, I know people who bought a 3 year license but changed their phones. You need to contact Nokia who will then cease the license on your current device and enable it on the new IMEI device.
Unless their policy has changed again... But I doubt it.
As mentioned the most likely reason is that Nokia can't do much about the licensing for the games because of the contractual obiligations to the software houses.
TBH I really don't care about ngage. It'll probably fail again...
Unregistered wrote:I was reading at AllAboutSymbian about Nokia Maps 2. If I recall correctly, if you pay for this for the maximum (3 years) you will have the same problem as with the N-gage games. Since it's also being connected to the phone's IMEI. Or did I dream about this??
No. Changing phones is not a problem with Nokia Maps
I've just checked with an expert and apparently the NM licence is linked to your SIM card, not your phone. If you want to use NM on another phone, you just put your SIM card in it and tell the other phone's NM app to "update licence".
Well i don't think if Nokia would make the game "logged" per username since this will allow people to install it on several handsets, thus making the company lose money. I think the only solution Nokia has is to log the game by SIMCARD number(can this be done?) because I personally don't think people would change their phone numbers each and everytime they changed their handsets - this seems to be the best solution as the ngage application would check the phone simcard and allow the player to play the game after verification.
If written press or magazines starts to write about this, their game sales would definitely be hurt as not many people will throw away money to buy a game which will only work on 1 of their handset!
krisse, I don't know if there was any article written for it but I've read on symbian freak's website (I am not sure about it) or or another website, that the game saves for the ngage won't work after a firmware upgrade and it is impossible for people to export the saves via the ngage application to the phone or computer. This would makes hours of playing a game in vain and completely pointless if this is the case since people will not be able to resume their game after a firmware upgrade!
clad wrote:krisse, I don't know if there was any article written for it but I've read on symbian freak's website (I am not sure about it) or or another website, that the game saves for the ngage won't work after a firmware upgrade and it is impossible for people to export the saves via the ngage application to the phone or computer. This would makes hours of playing a game in vain and completely pointless if this is the case since people will not be able to resume their game after a firmware upgrade!
I'd understood that game saves are supposed to work if you restore them from a backup after a firmware update. Whether or not that actually happens is another matter!
One thing that is definitely true is that you cannot export game saves so even if you're willing to buy a game again on your new phone, you can't move your saves to it from the old phone.
We didn't mention the saves issue in the article because we felt the actual games were far more important, and wanted to focus on one thing at a time.
If Nokia fixes the game transfer issue, the saves issue is the next biggest thing for them to fix with N-Gage.
Ideally Nokia would let you upload your savegames to your account on their server, so that you could then restore the savegames at a later date if you need to. You can already upload your photos and videos to Nokia's server, why not game saves too?
krisse wrote:I'd understood that game saves are supposed to work if you restore them from a backup after a firmware update. Whether or not that actually happens is another matter!One thing that is definitely true is that you cannot export game saves so even if you're willing to buy a game again on your new phone, you can't move your saves to it from the old phone.
We didn't mention the saves issue in the article because we felt the actual games were far more important, and wanted to focus on one thing at a time.
If Nokia fixes the game transfer issue, the saves issue is the next biggest thing for them to fix with N-Gage.
Ideally Nokia would let you upload your savegames to your account on their server, so that you could then restore the savegames at a later date if you need to. You can already upload your photos and videos to Nokia's server, why not game saves too?
On devices with UDP (user data perservation) like the N82, save games work fine after firmware upgrade.
Makes no difference to me now though, there is no way I will be buying any more games on N-Gage until they allow the transfer of games between devices.
And if anyone has any sense they'll do the same.
There is only one way to solve this and that is to hit Nokia where it hurts by not buying games.
So you're doing Nokia a favour are you? Wouldn't that have been to voice it privately to your contacts at Nokia? If you have as much influence as you seem to think you have, they'd have paid attention.
Seems to me, you thought you'd bite that hands that have previously fed you, and stir up enough publicity to drive traffic to this site. Stories that knock N-Gage are cheap, and it's disappointing that you're trying to dress it up in some kind of tough love excuse. Tough love would be taking the decision to support the platform, accept it's not perfect yet, and keep chipping away in private discussions. You've ridden the wave long enough - I hope they never give you another interview or comp you any games or phones.
Was really looking forward to playing with N-Gage on my N95 8GB 😞
I think the idea is great, but the way they are locking you in seems very 'Appleish', etc.
Maybe if the games were a bit cheaper, then more people would not mind having to buy again, when they change their handset.
Not A Happy Bunny
Just an update - Nokia Conversations has reported good news.
We've dug in deeper and we've been told a fix is in the works for the recent N-Gage games transfer situation. This is excellent news and although initially it looks like it may need to be serviced through Nokia Care (as an interim solution), there is a longer-term fix in the works.
See: http://conversations.nokia.com/home/2008/05/n-gage-update-.html
Good to see a rapid reponse, hopefully more [official] details will be forthcoming, will be posting about this on the site shortly.
i can confirm that restoring saved games data after a back up works using content copier,
youll need to install the n-gage app manually to overwrite the DISCOVER N_GAGE app before you proceed with a restore to get it to work otherwise you'll end up with both icons and the propper one wont open
so install n-gage to clean phone before you use a restore from content copier
i am one of the many ppl that this situation has come upon me.i hav bought over 10 ngage games on my N85,and i hav restored my phone b4.but i had 2 install all my games back and put the verification codes again,but within 6months my fone broke(N85) and even tho under garantee,i just bought a N86 and thought that by using my memory card and MY NGAGE account i would b able 2 use my games again on my new N86,with my verification codes.im very dissapointed if this is the case.i hope NOKIA reads this.i am a great nokia fan and promote the brand where ever i am,ive had the 6110, 6600, N70, N80, N82, N85 and now finally N86...plz nokia...i hope they can link PEOPLES personal accounts with Ngage with the IMEI codes so we may hav our full games forever
I activated the Brain training game with the complimentary code that came with the phone and purchased an additional game, then the center select key on my N86 began to fall of.
I received a replacement handset from Orange, re-connected to my Maps licence and then tried to re-activate my n-gage games without success.
Rang Nokia care in the UK and they arranged for the purchased licence to be transferred to the new IMEI number, they also arranged to transfer the complimentary game as well.
The technician also explained that there is a limit on the number of times that the activation code can be transferred between handsets (something like 4 or 5 times). This is not really an issue if you change handsets every year or two but I can see this being a serious issue if you get your handset replaced a couple of times in a year under warantee, are Nokia really going to block the transfer in this case?
Cheers, Alun
N86-1 10.086 (Orange UK variant)