There Will Never Be One Phone To Rule Them All

The argument of whether it is correct to build one device where each user only utilizes (perhaps a different) 65% of the capability of the device, or to build a number of devices where the users will use 95% of a smaller feature set has an obvious answer.

The key phrase is "perhaps a different 65%". Even if most people don't use all their phone's capabilities, the parts people do use will vary greatly from person to person so it's often worth including as many capabilities as possible. The capabilities you use may also vary over time, and if the phone is sold on the next user may use it in a completely different way.

To use an analogy: if you buy a dictionary you are unlikely to ever read most of it, but that doesn't mean that most of it is wasted. The words you look up are unlikely to be the same as the words someone else does, so it's important that all of them are present.

Yes there is. It is called the Ring ;^). With mind-altering addictive properties. Including getting a taste for sushi. Comes with full thought control and telepathic data link. BTW. The N95 is already pretty addictive. Stepcounter, sportstracker and wellness diary already rate my performance, agenda and e-mail control my actions. Nokia Maps my destinations. Musicplayer, realplayer, mobipocket and n-gage my entertainment. I am just a slave to my phone. It just beeps, jingles or vibrates and like a true busmaster initiates a slaved respons from me.

>> we shouldn�t be wasting the Earth�s resources building tens of millions of extra accelerometer circuits in order to force them onto every mobile phone user - just in case.

This old article mentions ryan airs cost cutting initiative of banning their staff from charging phones at work.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2005/apr/23/theairlineindustry.transportintheuk
Estimated at 1.4p per charge (and around �28 if the entire company charged their phones at once).

Given this sort of power consumption. It's unlikely that charging times will be high up on environmental legislation or even the budget of a house holder conscious of rising utility bills.

Vestigial organs are common in mobile phones/consumer electronics. Components are re-used in different ways across the portfolio of products. You would be amazed at how many phones ship with 3D accelerator hardware but lack the s/w to drive it. Or hardware encryption, which can't be used due to crypto-export laws.

It's an easy decision to add something to a product, but a ballsy decision to remove it. Look how long Fax stuck around on mobile.
Nokia in general seem incapable of removing stuff and redesigning for a particular user. It's assembly by component.
The problem with the swiss army knife approach is that managers are happy to tick the box that a feature is there, but it can be really substandard.
The calculator is good example. You don't use it often but when you need to calculate the restaurant bill you want it to work simply and perfectly.
But s60 calc sucks like ass cancer.

If Nokia were designing a phone for elderly, visually impaired arthritic people - rather than a design such as Raku Raku, http://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/product/easy_phone/simple/index.html.

They would release the same software with an extra "blind cripple app" on the menu.
Considering how many anthropologist and future strategist Nokia have on their payrole these days, you would expect finer grained differentiation/segmentation rather than a killer-monster-phone approach.

Why concern yourself with the S60 built in calculator when there are several excellent S60 native and java ones from 3rd party devleopers that can be easily installed? For free even? If you don't like the built in then get a new one. Applies to most apps.

i use the calc very infrequently and so it's not worth my time to investigate one of the many alternatives.
My point is, i would rather the crappy calc was not included because it's half arsed - then I could instantly see the value in a download.
The fact that nokia include calc means that 99% of customers will never look elsewhere, i.e they have set a very low expectation of what a calc should be like.

I use calcium now, which is great.
http://www.mtvoid.com/calcium/

I think 6 million N series phone have been sold (as of 2008); there are something like 6 million iphones sold; so you assertion that the iphone sells less than one S60 "brand" is not true.

Yes, there will be competition in the future. Nokia "owned" smartphones from the decline of the Treo to the iphone, but they are not going to "own" the smartphone market going forward.

The problem for Nokia is they can do volume, but they are not going to sell high-margin. That is what happened to Palm (they are having success with $99 phone but not $500 phones).

I think 6 million N series phone have been sold (as of 2008); there are something like 6 million iphones sold; so you assertion that the iphone sells less than one S60 "brand" is not true.

The problem for Nokia is they can do volume, but they are not going to sell high-margin. That is what happened to Palm (they are having success with $99 phone but not $500 phones).

Then look here for the margin of the company during 2007 operations. That is a healthy margin, so I don't know which company you are really referring to?

To the unregistered user above.

Iphone is NOT a smartphone. As steve jobs puts it, 'its a phone that's smart'. To get counted as a smartphone it would have to provide a lot of freedom for customization and it would have to be 'open to new features' which, quite frankly, would never happen. :tongue:

Before you start talking about that copy of Download!, keep in mind that even series 40s take java but still don't get counted as smartphones. Lets discuss this when (if ever, lol) iphone starts taking java, python, .net etc apps.

It is possible to develop S40 native apps too, although it can be hard work.

we should wait when buying a phone will be like buying a PC. you pick the components and features according to your needs and pocket so you can't complain that something is missing 😊

I think in today's phones the overlapping area of similar features as way too big. I just checked the other day: on the Nokia website there are 78 phone models currently available. but if you compare those devices you would be struggling to find more than 5 that actually stand out for a particularly good reason - everything else is the same boring stuff in different clothing.

as the article said: variety is good. but it should be real variety, not just "a paintjob"

#Reda EK;

The link you provide quotes A gartner study. I'm not comparing all Nokia S60 sales to iphone sales, I am comparing E and N series sales to iphone sales.

The apple numbers I've seen have suggested 3.4 million iphones sold in 2007, and probably about the same amount sold in the first half of 2008. Remember the iphone only came in during the 2Q of 2007, so you're looking at partial numbers for 2007.

I've not seen a hard number for the number of N and E series handsets, but I have seen the six million number bandied about.

I love it you ignore the Ipod touch -- the same platform -- that you can get if you just want wifi data and not voice. Ipod sales in 2007 were 22 million; if only 10% were ipod touch sales that is another 2.2 million platform users. Already, the iphone/touch platform is approaching the same size as the entire installed base of N and E series. Who would you rather develop for?

Nokia had a great margin in 2007, but it is 2008 and continuing that Apple will eat away their profit share. What does Nokia do? Waste 9 billion on Nav and faill to defend their high margin products.

Nokia has the best selection of mobiles, but what are we suppose to use to synchronise then to our PC.

Windows Mobile has the worst selection but the best synchronisation.

I'm not sure about blackberry.

The mojority of S60 sales are N and E series. The N95 alone has sold 12 million with the iPhone selling around 6m.

Apple fanboys stop being trolls.

*majority

BTW, the n95 was released April 2007.

Hard numbers for NSeries sales are available in Nokia's quarterly reports. In Q1 2008, Nokia shipped 10 million NSeries phones and 2 million ESeries phones. Google "Nokia Q1 2008 net sales" and you should be able to find the report (or just take a look at their site).

Folks, remember form factor and ergonomics are two of three battle grounds. Content is the other. Nokia's navigation and music services are just two of many services Nokia will provide. Apple had the right idea with iTunes but the iPhone is just too simple and uniform as a platform for selling content for all different types of users. Nokia want to cover every dimension on the three points I mentioned above. This will take time and investment; Nokia will slowly raise the barriers and very few will be able to compete.

@unregistered
I don't want to start a long discussion on the iPhone vs rest of the world, but financial figures are not marketing material...that is, there should only be one story based on these figures and here everyone is giving his/her own interpretation...
Anyway, Apple and Nokia are two very successful companies and I'm sure we don't need to find out here who has the longest pen*s...oops, I meant the most successful product.

Thanks for the correct numbers on 1Q 2008 E SERIES and N series phones. I stand corrected. So we are looking at something like 50 million N and E series for 2008, versus maybe 10 million iphones (and an unknown amount of ipod touches). So instead of even sales, we are looking at a 4:1 advantage to Nokia. Install base would also be quite larger. However, in terms of mindshare (and profit share) Apple will win. In the same report, average sale price for nokia was 79 euros. Guess what it was for Apple?

In terms of content, while Nav remains the only potential killer app for Nokia, apple has been wiping everyone's ass with music sales. Content will migrate where it can. The question is generating revenue through content -- which only Apple has been successful at.

Apple's weak point is developer realations; they can be real pains there and might screw up the next killer app for mobile. That alone may be a saving grace for Nokia. Also build quality; iphone has terrible phone reception although people in the US tend to blame AT&T rather than Apple.

"In the same report, average sale price for nokia was 79 euros. Guess what it was for Apple?"

You're mixing two things. The 10 million figure was for N-Series devices. the 79 euros figure is the average for *all* devices (i.e., 115 million in Q1). If iPhone/iTouch is being compared to N-Series/E-Series devices, then the average sales price that you should be referring to is the average for *those* devices, no?

"In the same report, average sale price for nokia was 79 euros. Guess what it was for Apple?"

As long as there remains serious contenders, its all good.

Someone snapping at your heels is good incentive to push out better models.

But Apple is never going to get anywhere near Nokia. Why should they? Apple has always been niche, and they are making a very healthy profit on the iphone, and doubtless will on the 3G iphone. They simply wont flood the market with cheaper models, and so will never get near any sort of majority.

Yes; I agree on the average price comparison; my point is that outside of the N and E series Nokia margins on each phone are low.

What Apple has learned to do is steal profit share, rather than just market share. They did that with laptops, did it with MP3, and now are trying to do it with phones. I agree they won't be as successful as they were with the ipod, but I could easily see a situation in two years where apple has 60% to 80% of the "high end" or smartphone market. Nokia either needs to start a price war, or really bulk up on functionality.

Yes, there is always room for different form factors, but the truth is that Symbian platform, a previously leader on touch screen UI has not got a competitive Touch screen phone! Not a single one! Different form factor arguement doesn't wash with a complete lack of competitiveness in touch screen interface. When is Nokia alike is going to realise touch screen, finger friendly UI is where the market is going??? Consumer market at least? We can compare finer details spec all day long, but with 3G iphone, HTC touch Cruise, Touch Diamond etc...anyone average conusumer getting their hands on it will think they are way cooler to use for most daily tasks. Useability, cool factor sells. Look no futher to ipod's market impact.

Since the original iphone launch, while HTC, Samsung etc...has steal iphone ideas, built their own interface on top WM6 and staying close to the game. No improvement is happening out of UIQ, no touchscreen is out of S60 (yes, there is one coming...but when?). What are UIQ design team doing? Playing PS3 all day? UIQ is looking like going out of market. "Neglect" is the word is what come to my mind. Nokia needs finger friendly touch screen fast!

Ray

Guys, you are forgetting a completely different but equally important market that Nokia caters to and its something that's destined to be the biggest gaming platform in the world.

For mac fanboys, a phone without buttons is cool.
For Gamers, no buttons = no deal.

Next time before somebody says "touch screen, finger friendly UI is where the market is going" he should realize there is something called N-gage.

E71 is good.... but it would be nice to have a N Series phone that has all features in N82 with E61i SIZE and SHAPE with a full QWERTY keyboard and a good battery

Screen of E71 is SMALL.... Keyboard layout (both in E61i and E71) is not good ... the keys QAZ are straight below each other, a slightly indented and a Shift key before Z key would have been nice.

With 2.8 screen size, I would be looking at 640 x 480 screen. A VGA secondary camera or 1.3 MP secondary camera would be a desirable plus.... as against the existing QCIF secondary camera.

Here are my QWERTY N-Series Specifications
1) Size & Shape - E61i -- Keyboard, laid in natural keyboard format (as against the existing QAZ keys in line left aligned)
2) Battery - E61i (1500 mAH of pure power) A batter battery would be even nicer...
3) 2.8 or 3 inch 640 x 480 VGA Screen with 16 M Colors.
4) A Scroll Wheel (mouse like) (similar to BB 8310)
5) 64/32 GB internal memory with 2 additional MicroSD card slots (watchful iPhone 2)
6) existing camera of N82 with flash is SUPERB, but 7 or 8 MP with optical zoom will be a dream.
7) This is basically over and above what all is offered by N82 .. so what ever N82 has... is already included in.

One Phone for ALL... sure.. it's Possible

Unregistered wrote:E71 is good.... but it would be nice to have a N Series phone that has all features in N82 with E61i SIZE and SHAPE with a full QWERTY keyboard and a good battery

Screen of E71 is SMALL.... Keyboard layout (both in E61i and E71) is not good ... the keys QAZ are straight below each other, a slightly indented and a Shift key before Z key would have been nice.

With 2.8 screen size, I would be looking at 640 x 480 screen. A VGA secondary camera or 1.3 MP secondary camera would be a desirable plus.... as against the existing QCIF secondary camera.

Here are my QWERTY N-Series Specifications
1) Size & Shape - E61i -- Keyboard, laid in natural keyboard format (as against the existing QAZ keys in line left aligned)
2) Battery - E61i (1500 mAH of pure power) A batter battery would be even nicer...
3) 2.8 or 3 inch 640 x 480 VGA Screen with 16 M Colors.
4) A Scroll Wheel (mouse like) (similar to BB 8310)
5) 64/32 GB internal memory with 2 additional MicroSD card slots (watchful iPhone 2)
6) existing camera of N82 with flash is SUPERB, but 7 or 8 MP with optical zoom will be a dream.
7) This is basically over and above what all is offered by N82 .. so what ever N82 has... is already included in.

One Phone for ALL... sure.. it's Possible

Whoa... Any takers?

Hi all,

I think as mentioned before not everyone wants or needs the same things from their devices and more importantly never will. For instance many of those that like touch screens don't like or want a non touch screen device whilst others like me just don't like touch screens neither choice is wrong it's just preferences. The growth in smart phones is IMO now being driven by new users who are more interested in Multimedia the smart phone is no longer the preserve of Business.

As to Apple taking 60-80% of the top end in smart phones that's just not realistic, are Rim, HTC, Nokia and all the other well established players all going to stop evolving then? as that's the only way it could happen.

Don't get me wrong as a new entrant to the market Apple have done well but i wonder just how many of their users ever used a smart phone before their iPhone? or for that matter use it for more than then the Multimedia features and E-Mail.

The point is there is plenty of room in a growing market for lots of players and the more choice we get the better it is for us the user. Which increases the chances of finding the right device for each of us not of course forgetting the more competition the better the pricing should also be. There is no perfect smart phone for all and i seriously doubt there ever will there is only what is best for each of us and none of them so far are perfect either IMO.

Marc

I am surprised that my colleagues who bought iPhones (V1) are not so vocal now about wonderful it is. One even carries an additional Nokia phone. All my colleagues, with Apple, HTC & Palm devices that call quality is still best with Nokia and SE handsets. And one-handed operation is very difficult with slate form factor touch screen devices - yes the iPhone!

The idea that there is a killer app market is untrue.
I see mobile as a futile ground for very niche products and tools, probably mostly free.
It's greed that drives many to look for and invest in apps which will be deployed across the whole subscriber base.