Nokia's opened a new site called N-Gage Feedback Forum, which lets you submit ideas and feedback, and vote on other people's submissions too, all in a Digg-style interface. It's hosted by the consumer feedback company UserVoice, and it should be very interesting as long as Nokia does actually respond to the points raised. The top suggestion right now concerns the continuing lack of N93/N73 support...
Read on in the full article.
Be very VERY careful how you use your votes. You only get 10, and then they're gone until ideas you've voted for are marked as being in the planning stage by the site admins.
You can post as many comments as you want though, it's only the votes you have to be careful about.
great site, you should think of a idea then we can discuss in your forum or in article on home page
then go over and submit finalized idea and get everyone to vote it off here lol
people power work's as long as people all speak up and have same vision
I really hope these issues get attended. Let's see.
I really appreciate the fact that Nokia has taken the time to do this. It's a win-win situation; Nokia learns exactly what the customers want, and the customers get a better product in the end.
I really hope these issues get attended. Let's see.
That's what the site depends on, if Nokia responds to these then it will be an enormous success, but if Nokia never responds (or if they respond with waffle) it will feel like a total waste of time.
It sometimes seems like the PR people do want to give direct answers but they're forbidden from doing so by their bosses. Hopefully this site will get their bosses to allow more direct responses and keep people informed of what's going on.
If this works, similar sites could perhaps be set up for other parts of Nokia like the S60 platform or the Nokia Maps service. It certainly seems to be a very good idea.
Let it go people.. the N73 is DEAD.. give it up. N93 should get more support (given the amount of technology is still there).
Let it go people.. the N73 is DEAD.. give it up.
The issue isn't that people just want the N73 to be supported, it's that Nokia specifically TOLD them it would be supported, and included the N73 very prominently in the N-Gage promotional film last year. If a company breaks a promise like that then people have a right to feel annoyed.
Hehehehehehe my idea is the best one!!!!!!
Need games using the 3D CHIPPPPPPPPP!!!!
And for the rest of you!!!! Check youtube.... you can play Ngage games in almost any Nokia 3rd edition!!!
i think it's stupid of nokia to hold back the support of the other s60v3 phones!
i have an e65 and all the games run good on my phone!
it was so easy for us hackers to make it work on the other phones, there is only one txt file and a sis file missing in the installer to PREVENT it from working on all the other s60v3 phones!
it was so easy for us hackers to make it work on the other phones, there is only one txt file and a sis file missing in the installer to PREVENT it from working on all the other s60v3 phones!
...and it works 100% perfectly on every phone using this hack?
Because even the officially supported phones don't work 100% properly with N-Gage right now.
It would be easy for Nokia to open up N-Gage to every S60v3 model, the problem would be in guaranteeing that it would work.
Even with the official models there seem to be a lot of error messages and bugs appearing for a lot of people, so imagine how many they'd get if they added a dozen more models to the five already supported.
I do think they need to add them to S60v3, but I don't think they're deliberately "holding it back". Adding new phones to the platform bit by bit is the least worst option.
Yesssss just works like the rest of the nokia N series phones...
Check on youtube: Ngage nokia, and you would see work in Nokia 5700, nokia 6120, nokia e70, nokia n80 even this one... and sooooooo many more...
Yesssss just works like the rest of the nokia N series phones...
...but that's my point, N-Gage DOESN'T work fully even on the officially supported
phones.
Nokia are having to work flat out to nail all the bugs that keep cropping up just with the five they support. If they suddenly had to support 20 phones that job could get a lot harder.
It should get easier in the future as phones are built with N-Gage in mind, but they haven't been released yet. The current S60v3 models were all designed before N-Gage launched.
Check on youtube
I've seen the videos, but they don't show how well the games run over a longer period of time.
I think this is a fantastic idea, right down to the limited votes meaning people think carefully on their priorities rather than just voting for everything which would likely happen otherwise.
So far I've placed 3 votes on the statement from Nokia regarding the delayed N73/N93 support, hopefully we'll get to hear something as it's been far to long without any statement.
I think this is a fantastic idea, right down to the limited votes meaning people think carefully on their priorities rather than just voting for everything which would likely happen otherwise.
It is a great way of doing things, the owners of this service have clearly spent a lot of time thinking it through.
Even if someone does support a load of daft suggestions, they'll run out of votes pretty quickly and never get them back because daft suggestions will never be implemented.
bchliu wrote:Let it go people.. the N73 is DEAD.. give it up. N93 should get more support (given the amount of technology is still there).
The major issue Nokia is facing while giving support to N73 and N93 is the low RAM on both devices (at least according to them). Actually, the extra features (related to N-Gage) which are present in N93 (hardware acceleration and WLAN), are not decisive in the current circumstances. Hardware acceleration isn't supported by the platform at this moment, and people can get/play games with 3G. So there is no reason they should drop the N73 and carry on with N93.
(snip)
@ Tzer2,
I'm surprised to know that you don't know that ngage games work on every s60v3. It works perfectly on my 5700. I myself have created one thread related to it on dotsis.
If i'm allowed to, i will post the links to all those threads from various forums such as dotsis, noeman, ipmart-forum so that you can make a review of that titled
AN UNOFFICIAL WAY OF GETTING NGAGE 2.0 WORKING ON ANY S60V3- READ HOW
What do you think? Reply as yes or no. Should i post links or not?
What do you think? Reply as yes or no. Should i post links or not?
Thank you but no.
The kind of people who can hack their phone to allow N-Gage to install would also know how to find the information already. I can't see any good coming from posting such links on here.
Also, the guides on how to get N-Gage onto other phones seem to be published with guides on how to pirate N-Gage games, which are not something we would ever link to anywhere on AAN.
If you want N-Gage to die, the best way of doing it is to tell people how to pirate the games. Even AAN pays for its games, we don't get review copies.
I'm surprised to know that you don't know that ngage games work on every s60v3. It works perfectly on my 5700. I myself have created one thread related to it on dotsis.
I'm surprised you didn't read my comments properly! 😊
I know perfectly well that N-Gage games can technically be made to work on S60v3 phones. I've posted and written about it time and time again on AAN and AAS.
In fact I wrote a long editorial about it almost a year ago, talking about all the phones that are technically good enough to run N-Gage. I was calling on Nokia to open the platform to as many phones as possible, as quickly as possible:
http://www.allaboutngage.com/features/item/Where_the_heck_are_all_the_phones.php
The comments I made in this thread are entirely to do with whether Nokia gives these phones official support, which is a completely different thing to theoretical compatibility.
Official support means a company fixes bugs and issues updates, and puts resources into getting something to work properly. Without official support, software won't necessarily work reliably (or at all!) even if it should work in theory.
As I said in the comments above, even with official support the N-Gage app does not yet work totally reliably, and most people seem to encounter serious bugs in it from time to time.
The reason Nokia's restricted N-Gage to just a few models is probably because they want to get the app fixed, and that's easier to do on a smaller range of hardware. If they opened it up to every technically compatible phone right now, the number of bugs could multiply hugely and delay the whole process of updating the app.
Saying that the app already runs perfectly is a lie, it doesn't. If you're running it just with pirated games then you aren't running it fully, because the purchasing mechanism is an essential part of the app. It's the game sales that keep N-Gage alive, without them it dies.
Saying that Nokia planned this is also just not true. Why would they announce N-Gage for the N81, N82, N95, N73 and N93 with a November 2007 launch date, then delay it all until April 2008 and leave out the N73 and N93? It doesn't make any commercial sense at all, and it's difficult to believe they did this deliberately. The only explanation that makes sense is that they've encountered far more technical difficulties than they expected.
Why would Nokia want to deliberately exclude phones, even brand new models like the N78 that was advertised as being N-Gage compatible? The answer is they don't want to exclude them, but they've been forced into it by some sort of behind-the-scenes difficulties.
As I said in the article linked to in this post, they've got to open it up eventually though, they'd be mad not to. By 2009 I think we'll see every new Nokia S60 model (and maybe some non-Nokia S60s?) running N-Gage straight out of the box. Whether they open it up to older models by then is another matter, but it will be a real shame if they don't.
@ Tzer2,
I respect your opinion but I can't agree with you on all points.
I do agree on few points like
- i forgot AAN pays money for ngage games, the official way
- you were aware of ngage running on all s60v3
- no unofficial stuff here is posted
Still i disagree on points like
- it does run 100 problem free on 5700, haven't encountered a single error yet in last 2-3 months
- i don't think support is absolutely necessory, you can live with it
- ngage compatibility on every future s60v3? No way. I still feel that it will be restricted to Nseries with exception of 5320 ( nokia certainly trying desperately to reach mass that's why the would be cheapest s60 got support )
Well i'm not a hacker, let me tell you that first. I'm a student and while surfing on net discovered the method of getting ngage working, surely accidental.
N lastly, quite frankly, there's literally no difference between N81 and 5700/6120 except the fact that N81 has special gaming keys, 0.2 inches bigger screen n double the amount of ram. It's nokia's beloved baby, 5700/6120 isn't, they didn't sell that much rather weren't hyped like the former.
That's what i think. Thanks for replying to my post. It's always been great pleasure reading articles at AAN/AAS.
i know 100% n-gage runs buggy on older devices, what your saying is not true for all models i tested on older phone myself with hack few weeks back b/c i was curious even though i have all games so far which i payed for .
it was waste of time b/c overall performance is terrible
there was 2 ppl in chatroom earlier trying to play eachother and kept having to restart b/c errors running the hacked ngage on older phones
you must be the exception b/c i've read many threads about the errors ppl get and want to solve them when running the illegal versions
i can't wait for a new system which we know nokia will come up with to combat you cheapskates who are too tight to pay 10bucks for a game
- it does run 100 problem free on 5700, haven't encountered a single error yet in last 2-3 months
So you've purchased games without any problems? Or have you just used pirated games? I did ask this before, but you didn't answer.
If you haven't purchased any games, then you haven't tested it properly. The only way N-Gage can exist in the long term is if people buy the games.
N lastly, quite frankly, there's literally no difference between N81 and 5700/6120 except the fact that N81 has special gaming keys, 0.2 inches bigger screen n double the amount of ram.
First of all, I personally reviewed the 5700 and 6120 for All About Symbian, and the N81 for my own Nokia Duck site:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/reviews/item/Nokia_6120_Classic__6121_Classic_Review.php
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/reviews/item/Nokia_5700_XpressMusic_Review.php
http://nokiaduck.blogspot.com/2008/05/nokia-n81-8gb-video-photos-review.html
I also reviewed the 6110 and 6290, which are very similar to the 5700 and 6120. So I do know these phones very well indeed, I spent many weeks using each of them.
They're not quite as identical as you're claiming. You can't say there's "literally no difference".
The N81 does indeed have twice as much free RAM as the 6120 or 5700, and that's not something you can just ignore or dismiss. Some apps depend on a large amount of RAM to run properly, or to run at all. When the RAM runs out on a device it starts working strangely and then it crashes, so anything which takes the RAM to its limit is potentially going to cause problems.
I suspect it's exactly this which is causing Nokia such problems with getting official support for the N73 and N93, because they have much less free RAM than the other official models.
In fact there is some evidence for this: the N-Gage application tells N95 owners to update to a newer version of the firmware before they can install it. This newer firmware increases the amount of free RAM in the N95 from 20 megabytes to 30 megabytes. 20 megabytes is how much free RAM the N73, N93, 6120, 5700, 6110 and 6290 have, so it could be that the extra 10 megabytes makes all the difference.
It's nokia's beloved baby, 5700/6120 isn't, they didn't sell that much rather weren't hyped like the former.
The 6120 most definitely DID sell a lot, it's one of Nokia's most popular S60 models due to its extremely small size and very low price.
Some people claim it's Nokia trying to push their more expensive models. But that can't be true because the next N-Gage model is the 5320, which is the cheapest S60 model Nokia has ever made.
And none of that explains why N-Gage hasn't officially appeared on the N73 or N93 yet, even though Nokia said it would. Why would they announce it and then hold it back? It can't be deliberate because it just makes Nokia look really bad, they've severely annoyed N73 and N93 owners who were promised N-Gage support.
The only thing that makes sense is that Nokia tried to add N-Gage to the N73 and N93 but ran into unexpected technical problems.
If the issue is free RAM, then those same technical problems may be holding Nokia back from putting N-Gage on the 6120, 5700, 6290 and 6110 because they all have a similar amount of RAM to the N73 and N93.
ngage compatibility on every future s60v3? No way. I still feel that it will be restricted to Nseries with exception of 5320 ( nokia certainly trying desperately to reach mass that's why the would be cheapest s60 got support )
Why would Nokia want to deliberately restrict N-Gage to just a few models? How would that benefit them? I know they've restricted it, but I don't think it's something they want to do.
If they've got a choice between all S60 users being able to buy games, or just some of them, why wouldn't they choose all?
N-Gage isn't about promoting phone sales. Most people don't buy phones for gaming, because most people don't play games on their phone. N-Gage being or not being on a phone won't make much difference to how well the phone sells.
The point of N-Gage is to sell as many games as possible, and you can sell the most games when you have the most people using compatible hardware.
Nokia is trying to become an internet services company instead of just a hardware company, because hardware profits are going down as the average price of phones goes down. Eventually phones probably won't be very profitable any more, so Nokia needs a plan B for when that happens. Their services are being sold under the "Ovi" brand, and N-Gage is part of Ovi:
Sir,
Thanks for replying.
Well actually i did buy asphalt 3 and COTD for my N95 as well as i have all cracked versions. Still had problems with official ones but very few with pirated ones, surprisingly.
My point is-
Ngage compatibility is reserved only for high selling high priced Nseries devices. I accept that fact but CPU architecturewise 369mhz ARM11 on 5700/6120 is more powerful than N73's ARM9 230mhz processor and N73 is very slow compared to 5700 then why was nokia trying to make N73 ngage compatible? Just because it is more popular n 5700 isn't?
As you said 6120 sold very well, THEN WHY CAN'T NOKIA GIVE NGAGE SUPPORT TO 6120? It could have benefitted both the company and consumers.
The thing that disappointed me most is still there is no support for 6120, 5700 and N93 which are technically very much similar to present ngage compatible phones. N93 is undoubtedly the best phone for mobile gaming still nokia is holding back it's support. Even playing ngage games on 5700 is very nice experience, there are no lags even though it has less ram.
The last thing- If an unknown hacker can make ngage work on any s60v3 near perfectly with very few percentage of people reporting errors with hacked app, why can't nokia? I had to install the hacked version because i'm denied of official compatibility for ngage. So i had no choice but to install it.
I'm aware of the fact that making ngage app compatible to more phones means more testing and more bugs but atleast those above mentioned should get support. They are certainly capable of doing that. Even the present officially compatible have many problems then what's the harm in giving support to few more phones?
Waiting for your reply.
It seems as though the Nokia support page is being abused already by multiple-registration voters, a big shame:icon13:
You'll notice my comments here and probably see what I'm on about, thought it seemed a bit strange that the poll came out of nowhere to 516 votes during the same day.
They could have at least created more different user names to make it less obvious(ToOs, Tooos, Tos_gage, etc. etc.)🙄
Hope Nokia don't pull the site if this type of trend continues.
Tzer2: You, Sir, are a smart kid. I enjoy each and every post/comment you write.
I've been developing for S60 phones, working in larger companies dealing with all the red tape, done my business studies and yes, I totally agree with you. Let's see whether Nokia's actions proves us right.
I made a thread suggesting Nokia allow only one account to this webpage per IP address and stop the unregistered voting, see here http://ngage.uservoice.com/pages/general/suggestions/13660
The voting has again gone insane overnight, the support page will be a waste of space unless Nokia resolve the abuse it is now receiving.
Well actually i did buy asphalt 3 and COTD for my N95 as well as i have all cracked versions. Still had problems with official ones but very few with pirated ones, surprisingly.
So you couldn't buy any games on the 5700, and you had trouble with the games you bought on the N95.
If you had problems with the legal games and not the cracked games, that implies the problems involve the DRM, which you apparently couldn't get to work on the 5700.
While DRM might seem trivial from a "getting it to run" standpoint, it's absolutely vital that it does work if N-Gage is to have any future as a gaming platform.
Without the DRM, third party publishers will not touch N-Gage, and there is absolutely nothing Nokia can do about that. Games publishers simply will not release titles unless they have copy protection. Without third party support, the new N-Gage platform will die.
Because of this situation, there is no way Nokia would ever release N-Gage without DRM. This is why I keep asking you if the DRM works on the 5700. If the N-Gage DRM cannot work on the 5700, then that may be why Nokia don't currently support it.
Even if you hate DRM, you still need it if you want to create a successful gaming platform.
My point is-
Ngage compatibility is reserved only for high selling high priced Nseries devices.
The 5320 is neither Nseries nor high priced. As I said before, it's the lowest-priced S60 device Nokia has ever made.
Nokia has specifically said they're going to put N-Gage on non-Nseries phones, that's in their own N-Gage FAQ, and the 5320 is the first of these to be announced.
Incidentally, Nseries aren't that high-selling, they only make up about 10% of all Nokia sales. The rest are almost all from numbered phones with much lower prices, so if Nokia wants N-Gage to get a large userbase they'd have to base it around supporting cheap numbered devices. If it's still around by 2010, I'd predict the majority of N-Gage devices will be relatively cheap numbered models, though that's just me guessing.
As you said 6120 sold very well, THEN WHY CAN'T NOKIA GIVE NGAGE SUPPORT TO 6120? It could have benefitted both the company and consumers.
I already suggested a possible reason in the previous reply. Here it is again:
The amount of free RAM on the 6120/5700/6290/6110 is around 20 megabytes. This is the same as the amount of free RAM in the N93 and N73.
As Nokia promised to put N-Gage on N73 and N93 about eight months ago and has still failed to deliver, it could be that 20 megabytes isn't enough to run N-Gage properly.
All of the phones that do currently run N-Gage have 30 megabytes or more of free RAM.
We don't know for sure if that's the problem, but it's the most plausible theory at the moment.
I'm aware of the fact that making ngage app compatible to more phones means more testing and more bugs but atleast those above mentioned should get support. They are certainly capable of doing that.
If they announced N-Gage for N73 and N93 but haven't released it eight months later, they obviously AREN'T capable of doing that.
There obviously is some hitch (maybe with the DRM which you don't seem to have tested) which is causing them severe and unexpected problems.
Even the present officially compatible have many problems then what's the harm in giving support to few more phones?
You're implying that Nokia is doing this all deliberately as part of some master plan. Why then would they announce support for the N73 and N93 and fail to deliver over half a year later? How does that benefit them in the slightest?
Doesn't that make you think that there is a genuine problem with getting N-Gage to work properly?
If they can't even support the N73 or N93 despite announcing support, then it's perfectly possible they can't support the 6120, 5700 etc either.
Incidentally, Nokia's official line was never "here are the N-Gage phones, that's it". Their line was always "here is the first batch of phones, we'll add more over time". Obviously they should add all the phones they can, the question is how many phones can they actually add?
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