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Why do Nokia keep doing this?

21 replies · 3,880 views · Started 23 June 2009

<RANT>

The N97 is great .. the trouble is it is so bloody hard to find out how great it is because Nokia seem to make every simple thing so complicated!

Listen, I'm a geek. I know it. I admit it. If you are reading then the chances are you are a geek too. (As a simple test, if you know more about how to use your phone than your network's customer support then you are a geek!).

As an aforementioned total geek I pretty much know know how to use the Symbian OS inside out. I am not a normal user. And yet, with all this I am completely at a loss to work out what is going on with the connection points with the widgets on the new N97. There is no obvious way to re-specify the connection point. If you were at home (on your home wifi) when you first connected then that is the only connection you can use until you can fiddle around enough to get it to reconnect to a 3G when you are away from home.

And what on earth went through Nokia's mind when deciding to use icons that look like application icons as folder icons. Thats just stoooopid! Why have a Games folder by default on the N97, if the two games that came with my sim free UK N97 appear in the applications folder? Whats that about?

My point is, If I am struggling with this (as a total geek) then how on earth is the average user who hasn't really got a clue how to use their phone going to manage. All they want is to add the facebook widget to their home screen and for it to "just work". If it doesnt, cos they have the wrong destination point set up they are just going to assume it is broken, and tell all their mates to steer clear of the n97 "cos its rubbish".

It's no wonder why the (uneducated?) masses of non-geeks out there shout so loud about the iPhone. It may be anywhere near as much as the Symbian OS but (and it is a MASSIVE but) the iPhone "just works"!

</RANT>

PaulyLaw wrote:if you know more about how to use your phone than your network's customer support then you are a geek!

You've hit the bullseye there! I called up o2 on saturday and asked for my PAYG settings to be sent to me. They asked which phone I had, to which I proudly replied "Nokia N97"....

...they hadn't heard of it!

[SIZE="1"](bloomin' apple huggers)[/SIZE]

But anyway I think the problem us geeks have is that we often think through things with a strict sense of logic, e.g. games go in the games folder, folders should look like folders and not have custom icons etc (I agree with you on all this btw). To the layman, anything that's installed on the phone might be considered an Application, be it a utility, office suite, game, tool etc, so they might not be confused by this. To them, it might make complete sense. :redface:

Pauly, I can agree no more... I've been spending like half an hour with the home screen access point issue.... I dun really understand why they would have priority for different access points when the software doesn't apply them

Very well put Pauly, I thought it was just me being stoopid or the fact it was a new phone so had stuff in different menu's. My N95 in compariosn was easy to connect to either wi-fi or GPRS, but the N97 seems to want to do both, and there is no simple way to specificy which connection to use for which application.

Like you, my sim free handset has an empty Games folder, but was playing on games from the Application folder.

My last four phones have all been Symbian, so am pretty comfortable with the whole OS, but glad that I'm not the only one struggling with it.

I completely agree with this post. It seems Nokia have released a wonderful phone, but not taken the time and care to ensure it's all packaged up in the way everyone (else) has come to expect during the last few years.

Whilst I don't think the iPhone is any better than the N97, I do feel that Apple have got it right in the *look and feel* of the phone's software. Things just look nicer, and that will, unfortunately, get the attention of people - reviewers who aren't phone reviewers as such but get to play with a couple of devices and wow the iPhone just works, where as the N97... well it does work, but only after you've fumbled around through lots of weird menus setting it up first.

Things like applications not having something pre-defined on them, where as the iPhone does. Things like icons being blank folders, or being low resolution and blocky, or as you've said the two games that seem to become available after you've been using the phone for a while, not going in to the Games folder on the main screen but instead in to Applications - it's just daft, almost as if they didn't really try it from a users perspective before releasing.

The empty MfE (Mail for Exchange?) folder is another odd one. Also putting the Welcome application inside the Applications folder and not at the top left icon seems a bit daft. And why have a "Download!" app when that's been replaced by Ovi Store? and why have the N97 as the first device to have Ovi pre-loaded, just to use it on the day of launch of the phone in the UK and for it to have to download Ovi - in effect it was just a shortcut to the page to download the file, so it wasn't really pre-installed at all was it?

Other things that make me wonder quite how much the N97 had before release, include things like entering your login details in to the facebook app where it doesn't show if you're in caps lock or have the blue function key pressed for numbers or anything - it makes it VERY hard to enter a password (and hard enough to enter your email address for the username). This is the same on the web browser too, try entering text in to a text box such as the status update on m.facebook.com - it uses that tiny box (as my old N80 did) and not a proper text entry screen, which again means no notification of caps lock, shift, function key usage.

Also what's with the "to" (and other message headers) being white text on a light grey button in the message editing tool for email/mms/sms? You can hardly read it - did no one at Nokia notice that?! It absoloutely sums up the lack of care that sadly seems to have gone in to the software side of the N97, and that's not at all what I associate Nokia with.

All things I noticed within an hour or so of usage (after I'd set up the connection points...) and all things people will notice within their first hour and think the phone is rubbish as it "doesn't work" compared with how more user-friendly phones may do. Give it longer and there's no doubt about it in my mind that the N97 is fantastic, but the trouble is a lot of people simply won't give it longer - they'll just walk away. It has the wow factor for the build quality, the look of the hardware, the keyboard and camera and the raw functionality it offers, but there's something really lacking when it comes to the presentation and overall thought of "a real person using the device".

I'm sure all this could be "fixed" with nothing more than a firmware upgrade (effectively some new icons and new skins, and optionally moving stuff about so it's in more logical locations), but really all the polish and style should have been there on launch day - that way it'd have turned heads and really made people sit up and take notice. However instead Nokia have lost out on that, and by the time they get round to making it look good as well as work well, everyone who has already seen the N97 and dismissed it will have moved on to something else. Massive missed opportunity by Nokia - but not the first time.

simuk wrote:I completely agree with this post. It seems Nokia have released a wonderful phone, but not taken the time and care to ensure it's all packaged up in the way everyone (else) has come to expect during the last few years.

Whilst I don't think the iPhone is any better than the N97, I do feel that Apple have got it right in the *look and feel* of the phone's software. Things just look nicer, and that will, unfortunately, get the attention of people - reviewers who aren't phone reviewers as such but get to play with a couple of devices and wow the iPhone just works, where as the N97... well it does work, but only after you've fumbled around through lots of weird menus setting it up first.

Things like applications not having something pre-defined on them, where as the iPhone does. Things like icons being blank folders, or being low resolution and blocky, or as you've said the two games that seem to become available after you've been using the phone for a while, not going in to the Games folder on the main screen but instead in to Applications - it's just daft, almost as if they didn't really try it from a users perspective before releasing.

The empty MfE (Mail for Exchange?) folder is another odd one. Also putting the Welcome application inside the Applications folder and not at the top left icon seems a bit daft. And why have a "Download!" app when that's been replaced by Ovi Store? and why have the N97 as the first device to have Ovi pre-loaded, just to use it on the day of launch of the phone in the UK and for it to have to download Ovi - in effect it was just a shortcut to the page to download the file, so it wasn't really pre-installed at all was it?

Other things that make me wonder quite how much the N97 had before release, include things like entering your login details in to the facebook app where it doesn't show if you're in caps lock or have the blue function key pressed for numbers or anything - it makes it VERY hard to enter a password (and hard enough to enter your email address for the username). This is the same on the web browser too, try entering text in to a text box such as the status update on m.facebook.com - it uses that tiny box (as my old N80 did) and not a proper text entry screen, which again means no notification of caps lock, shift, function key usage.

Also what's with the "to" (and other message headers) being white text on a light grey button in the message editing tool for email/mms/sms? You can hardly read it - did no one at Nokia notice that?! It absoloutely sums up the lack of care that sadly seems to have gone in to the software side of the N97, and that's not at all what I associate Nokia with.

All things I noticed within an hour or so of usage (after I'd set up the connection points...) and all things people will notice within their first hour and think the phone is rubbish as it "doesn't work" compared with how more user-friendly phones may do. Give it longer and there's no doubt about it in my mind that the N97 is fantastic, but the trouble is a lot of people simply won't give it longer - they'll just walk away. It has the wow factor for the build quality, the look of the hardware, the keyboard and camera and the raw functionality it offers, but there's something really lacking when it comes to the presentation and overall thought of "a real person using the device".

I'm sure all this could be "fixed" with nothing more than a firmware upgrade (effectively some new icons and new skins, and optionally moving stuff about so it's in more logical locations), but really all the polish and style should have been there on launch day - that way it'd have turned heads and really made people sit up and take notice. However instead Nokia have lost out on that, and by the time they get round to making it look good as well as work well, everyone who has already seen the N97 and dismissed it will have moved on to something else. Massive missed opportunity by Nokia - but not the first time.

All this can be easily explained.

When did the N97 release? The same day as the iPhone 3GS.

Coincidence... I don't think so. In an ideal world, I think Nokia would have been releasing the N97 in late July. They knew to stand any chance this summer they needed to get their flagship phone out the door at the same time as the new iPhone, hence we get something with a few teething problems.

TBH, I am fairly impressed by the stability. So far I have had no phone crashes or lockups, whereas my N95 was crashing every day or two on the original firmware, and my E71 would also reset itself once a week.

I agree with what you say though, they desperately need to make thinks slicker. They are trying, the software update app pulls down a nice shiny version of Nokia Messaging that integrates into the homescreen widget and messaging app. For an S60 virgin, the N97 must be a daunting prospect though.

celios wrote:When did the N97 release? The same day as the iPhone 3GS.

Coincidence... I don't think so. In an ideal world, I think Nokia would have been releasing the N97 in late July. They knew to stand any chance this summer they needed to get their flagship phone out the door at the same time as the new iPhone, hence we get something with a few teething problems.


TBH I believe it was the other way around. If I remember correctly, the N97's confirmed release date was revealed on 2nd June, whereas the 3GS's was the 8th, almost a week later.

zxon wrote:TBH I believe it was the other way around. If I remember correctly, the N97's confirmed release date was revealed on 2nd June, whereas the 3GS's was the 8th, almost a week later.

I'm sure Nokia knew what Apple were planning (and vice versa) long before the start of June. They don't manufacture enough phones for a global launch and get them in shops within 2 weeks.

Here's a great sentence that i told someone the other day about why i returned the N97 i bought to keep using my iphone UNTIL (hopefully) Nokia works out the bugs in the N97 or changes the UI in S60...

Friend, "So why did you finally return the N97?"
Me, "I spent more time trying to figure out how to MAKE it work properly than i did exploring and enjoying the device."

As for my comment; my top list of problems:

1) Inconsistent use of destinations and access points drove me MAD
2) Logging in/out of facebook to fix the 'stuck' function key
3) For some reason, mobile youtube stopped working. Worked at first but then real player wouldn't load videos anymore, i got some kind of error.

The rest are more "liveable" problems but when i shell out $770 i don't want to have to fix a device i want it to "work." I don't mind learning a new OS and quite frankly love the openness of S60 and personally think the kinetic scrolling is better than capacitive scrolling. But hard for me to enjoy my device when i am fixing it more than i'm playing with it.

umm your n97 should not be using real player to play ANY type of youtube videos, whether its the full site or the mobile site. when i go to youtube on my 5800, the mobile site pops up and its super fast, and the videos play right in the browser.

if i go to the full site, videos also play in the browser. not sure what you're doing with real player, but RP sucks balls, so i try to avoid it.

RogerPodacter wrote:umm your n97 should not be using real player to play ANY type of youtube videos, whether its the full site or the mobile site. when i go to youtube on my 5800, the mobile site pops up and its super fast, and the videos play right in the browser.

if i go to the full site, videos also play in the browser. not sure what you're doing with real player, but RP sucks balls, so i try to avoid it.

That is not how the N97 is setup; on the desktop version of youtube yes the video plays in the normal youtube video but when you go to the mobile site the video pops up in real player and decides to work sometimes. Not really my issue anymore though lol

simuk wrote: but the trouble is a lot of people simply won't give it longer - they'll just walk away.

Well, given that most people will get this on a contract, and no UK supplier now lets you return phones or cancel contracts (except if bought at distance), I don't think many people will walk away?

Be interesting, my N97 should be here tomorrow, my first S60 phone for a while, after over a year with an iPhone 😊

I do have a return period though 😊

Kev

simuk wrote:

SNIP
Also what's with the "to" (and other message headers) being white text on a light grey button in the message editing tool for email/mms/sms? You can hardly read it - did no one at Nokia notice that?! It absoloutely sums up the lack of care that sadly seems to have gone in to the software side of the N97, and that's not at all what I associate Nokia with.
SNIP

One remedy is to use the black Theme that somes with the phone ( I think its Nseries2 or 3 ) . With this, the 'To' box in the new message screen is an easily identifiable balck on white so stands out clearer than the white on light blue theme. Cos I've got a black N97, the teme fits quite nicely.

There is a general theme though ,that tehre seems to be a few fixes needed, before the phone functions as it should, hope that firmware upgrade comes along pretty soon...

kevwright wrote:Well, given that most people will get this on a contract, and no UK supplier now lets you return phones or cancel contracts (except if bought at distance), I don't think many people will walk away?

Be interesting, my N97 should be here tomorrow, my first S60 phone for a while, after over a year with an iPhone 😊

I do have a return period though 😊

Kev

I'm thinking more people who try a friends one, and try a friends iPhone, or some other phone - they might not even try that for an hour, but I think the N97 comes off badly from a "short term test" view - it does well on the wow factor for a few minutes, just because it's a good bit of kit, and it does well after you've learnt the quirks, but other devices seem to keep the wow going between the "few minutes" and "long term", which is why I think people giving it a try or reviewers not giving it a real long use, will be a little confused and think it's a bad phone.

simuk wrote:I'm thinking more people who try a friends one, and try a friends iPhone, or some other phone - they might not even try that for an hour, but I think the N97 comes off badly from a "short term test" view - it does well on the wow factor for a few minutes, just because it's a good bit of kit, and it does well after you've learnt the quirks, but other devices seem to keep the wow going between the "few minutes" and "long term", which is why I think people giving it a try or reviewers not giving it a real long use, will be a little confused and think it's a bad phone.

Lucky us then... I'm off on holiday soon for a week and will be away from my PC, so I need to rely completely on my phone for net access and contacting people. I'll of course be reporting my findings back here.

simuk wrote:I'm thinking more people who try a friends one, and try a friends iPhone, or some other phone - they might not even try that for an hour, but I think the N97 comes off badly from a "short term test" view - it does well on the wow factor for a few minutes, just because it's a good bit of kit, and it does well after you've learnt the quirks, but other devices seem to keep the wow going between the "few minutes" and "long term", which is why I think people giving it a try or reviewers not giving it a real long use, will be a little confused and think it's a bad phone.

While i do agree with you partially; i am seeing a trend and anyone can flame me if you want

BUT

The bad reviews are out there for a reason; in essence Nokia released a buggy phone that has an old UI as its flagship and it just plain isn't ready which is why so many people are turned off from it however i will say that almost UNIVERSALLY everyone loves the hardware. I don't think i've seen one bad review about the hardware.

Also it's funny seeing bias towards Nokia and Apple as well; i remember when the 1st iphone came out (even before the 1st jailbreak) all the apple biased people were just like well i can live with x,x,x, because y,y,y, is great and the rest of us were like ARE YOU KIDDING ME? HOW MUCH ARE YOU PAYING AND WHAT ARE YOU GETTING (remember back then it was $400 locked to ATT only)

Now i see the same thing from SOME (not all) Nokia biased people are saying the same thing that they can live with all the bugs and wait for new firmwares and the other side is saying the same thing ARE YOU KIDDING ME? YOU PAID $700 FOR AN UNLOCKED PHONE THAT IS BUGGY AND NEEDS FIRMWARE UPDATES?

Interesting seeing people's responses, reviews, comments etc.

I've come to the N97 from the N95 & one thing that is going to bug me big time is docking cradles because Nokia decided to move the charging socket to the top left side.

This means that on the N97 you can't just pop the phone in the cradle & it will start charging, oh no, now we'll have to fiddle with a lead from the cradle & manually plug this in to the charge socket.

Then when the phone rings we'll have to unplug it, take the call & then plug it back in. Fiddle fiddle bloody fiddle!

I can live with the software bugs 'cos these will prob get fixed over time but Nokia?

Why did you use the more unusual micro USB socket & why the hell did you put it on the side???

Answer please? 😡

cor its been a long time since i posted here but there is a simple awnswer to your docking soloution 😊

the phone will be docked in landscape mode 😊

as it uses usb charging it will also charge while docked 😊

it will look great in landscape mode , docked on your desk , still being able to touch the screen to use features etc 😊

simple 😊

Ha ha ha how bloody simple, dock the thing in landscape mode, never occurred to my little brain.

Now just need to find a dock that works this way...

That link doesn't work, even if you go through the site, do a search & then click through.
I've seen it anyway I think, their do seem to be a couple out their in portrait mode, but all are pre order.

I guess as always those of us who choose to buy asap have to wait for the various features to catch up.