I've mentioned the direct lineage between N95 and N86 8MP before here on All About Symbian, so let's break this down - how far HAS Nokia come in the last two years? And how much of this distance is covered by software updates that can also be applied to the N95? In another of my device head-to-heads, I compare the N95 'classic', as it was at launch in early 2007, with the N86 8MP of mid 2009...
Read on in the full article.
xenon flash (for the love of god, please!) + video light/torch
battery to 1500mAh
return of a manual lens cover (missing from my 8GB)
FM transmitter
usb charging
A point I have raised pretty often - Check the font in the menu for the N95 & N86. The bold text in the N86, N85, N79 etc looks freaking ugly to me. The normal thin text on the N73, N95 look pretty cool. Wish they change the same for the N85 etc.
Coming to the last argument you raised about "what else can be improved in terms of a non-touch, button driven form?"
I feel the biggest improvement to rule all the current features is yet to come - BATTERY!
Although the phones might have a GPS, WiFi, Bluetooth, FM Transmitter, N-Gage & etc.. But use them all together, and your phone will crumble on its knees. I don't mind the next flagship carrying the best of all the current features, but with a battery to power them all for atleast a day! All the time..
> xenon flash (for the love of god, please!) + video light/torch
You'll never get both - the way a Xenon flash works is to store energy up in a capacitor and then deliver it all in one big, erm, 'flash'
If you want a torch, you need LED's which are able to be driven continuously.
Unregistered wrote:xenon flash (for the love of god, please!) + video light/torch
battery to 1500mAh
return of a manual lens cover (missing from my 8GB)
FM transmitter
usb charging
Manual Lens Cover is available on the N95, isn't it? You picked the 8GB version, live with it.
The N86 is the first phone I've actually considered as a viable upgrade from the N95.
However, some of the new features aren't exactly that amazing
N-gage - I've tried a few of the games, but none stand the test of time
Internet Radio - thats an add on available for the N95, so not exactly a selling point (its nice to have though)
Fm Transmitter - tried a few of these, and they aren't exactly great. Also with the digital switchover, how will they then fare?
Nokia search - added to the N95, its pretty damn useful
I'm intrigued by the digital zoom on the N86 though - you can't have "real digital zoom". Its just cropping. The only real zoom is optical.
The N86 is a gradual evolution of the N95 - very typically Nokia, as they haven't done any innovation on the Symbian platform since they release the 7650 - everything has been gradual point increases in functionality.
JCB_Digger wrote:> xenon flash (for the love of god, please!) + video light/torchYou'll never get both - the way a Xenon flash works is to store energy up in a capacitor and then deliver it all in one big, erm, 'flash'
If you want a torch, you need LED's which are able to be driven continuously.
No reason why you can't have the two in separate units though.
Hmm talking about separate 'light source' it leads me to wonder if it's possible to make an N95 or N86 (or whatever else) the master unit for, e.g., Nikon SB-800 or SB-900 flash unit. If that's possible and somebody come up with the software for it I'll definitely be paying 😉
How about an N86 with QWERTY? Nokia missed a big chance in penetrating the US market by not providing QWERTY on the N95 classic or N95 8gb. Is it too hard to make a 2.6" or 2.8" Qwerty with N95 like features? Touch screens are seriously good but buttons gets my job done faster.
@clonmult: "You can't have "real digital zoom". Its just cropping. "
I think I know what you're saying and I agree. However, I was trying to find a way to distinguish what the N86 does from what most camera phones seem to do, which is start with a VGA base resolution and then zoom into this, pixellating horribly. The N86 STARTS by correctly rendering VGA from a much larger sensor frame, and then gradually reduces the size of the frame. What this means is that for up to 4x or so, there's no loss of info whatsoever.
I'm not sure I explained that terribly well. See the example videos on my YouTube channel for the proof 8-)
Unregistered wrote:How about an N86 with QWERTY? Nokia missed a big chance in penetrating the US market by not providing QWERTY on the N95 classic or N95 8gb. Is it too hard to make a 2.6" or 2.8" Qwerty with N95 like features? Touch screens are seriously good but buttons gets my job done faster.
Umm.... how about a N95-alike, with 2.6" screen and the best qwerty on Symbian OS? It's called the E75 and it's been out for a few months 8-) Camera's not quite as good, but it's really not far off... and it's also in need of its first major firmware update, to speed things up etc.
kucing_kampung wrote:Hmm talking about separate 'light source' it leads me to wonder if it's possible to make an N95 or N86 (or whatever else) the master unit for, e.g., Nikon SB-800 or SB-900 flash unit. If that's possible and somebody come up with the software for it I'll definitely be paying 😉
I've speculated on using the USB to fire an external xenon flash kit. Now all we need is someone to write a hack for the camera app, or another camera app with the ability to control the timing of a signal to the usb port. or heck why not use wifi .. I have a friend who has all the camera toys including wifi flash modules. Maybe one of those?
it would have been better if you had comapared the n95 8gb fw31 with the n86
although you mention that almost all new apps are now available for the n95 but it would have been fair to compare n95 8gb with latest fw
nokia hasnt brought anything new to the table in 2years, there only have been software optimizations but nothing new and the idiotic thinking behind dropping the graphics accelerator!!
by the way after a slew of fw updates of almost every new nokia handset, can we expect a new fw for the n95????
n95 is the KING
slitchfield wrote:@clonmult: "You can't have "real digital zoom". Its just cropping. "I think I know what you're saying and I agree. However, I was trying to find a way to distinguish what the N86 does from what most camera phones seem to do, which is start with a VGA base resolution and then zoom into this, pixellating horribly. The N86 STARTS by correctly rendering VGA from a much larger sensor frame, and then gradually reduces the size of the frame. What this means is that for up to 4x or so, there's no loss of info whatsoever.
I'm not sure I explained that terribly well. See the example videos on my YouTube channel for the proof 8-)
Steve - I understand what you mean, I was thinking this over whilst I was just down the gym .... and was thinking that is how it will work on video - how it *should* be done.
Unregistered wrote:it would have been better if you had comapared the n95 8gb fw31 with the n86
although you mention that almost all new apps are now available for the n95 but it would have been fair to compare n95 8gb with latest fw
nokia hasnt brought anything new to the table in 2years, there only have been software optimizations but nothing new and the idiotic thinking behind dropping the graphics accelerator!!by the way after a slew of fw updates of almost every new nokia handset, can we expect a new fw for the n95????
n95 is the KING
To be a more "equal" comparison, it should be the original N95 (with latest firmware), *not* the N95 8gig. The 8gig was in some ways a downgrade - apart from the bigger screen, it omitted the lens cover (silly) and expandable memory (even siller now that 16gig cards are availble). Its pretty much the same firmware on each device.
Unregistered wrote:
nokia hasnt brought anything new to the table in 2years, there only have been software optimizations but nothing new and the idiotic thinking behind dropping the graphics accelerator!!
I think the zoom as described here is something new. As is the OLED, new to Nokia anyway. They also put DVB-H in a phone, which was a waste of time but was new.
The N95 had an appalingly bad GPS sensor, newer phones are much better. And doing some of the clever stuff like video etc would get the phone really hot. The newer ones run much cooler.
I was an N95 owner, I got the 5800 for its better form factor even though I don't like touch interfaces of any kind. I don't miss the graphics accelerator although I notice it compared to N95 it doesn't hinder my use of the phone at all.
As for Xenon flashes, I would prefer LED anytime for a number of reasons. Within 18 months there will be no advantage for Xenon over LEDs with the technology in the pipeline, but many advantages for LEDs.
Quote by alsiladka:
A point I have raised pretty often - Check the font in the menu for the N95 & N86. The bold text in the N86, N85, N79 etc looks freaking ugly to me. The normal thin text on the N73, N95 look pretty cool. Wish they change the same for the N85 etc.
@alsiladka
Yes you are right about the fonts on those phones, i owned a N96 before and i couldn't help but to think why isn't the bold text looks as good as the one on N95 and the other older Nseries?
So N86 still have the same bold text as N85,N79 and N96? The only thing that comes to my mind is that they're FP2, and that might be why they have different kind of fonts
@steve
Yes N86 is an improvement to N95..and you said "I doubt that this form factor will die out - it's simply too popular". True, but don't you think people will start getting bored of the dual slide form factor anytime soon? It's a good thing Nokia released the N97, but in my opinion, that is only to challenge the iPhone 3GS. So what i'm saying is..i want Nokia to release something new..something like N95 at that time, where no other manufactures' phone were alike in the market.
Maybe i'm hoping too much =) N86 8MP is still a good phone though, might try it one of these days.
slitchfield wrote:The N86 STARTS by correctly rendering VGA from a much larger sensor frame, and then gradually reduces the size of the frame. What this means is that for up to 4x or so, there's no loss of info whatsoever.
The HTC Typhoon (Orange C500) Windows Mobile phone did something similar back in 2004, although with a much lower resolution and worse sensor, of course. It didn't let you do digital zoom unless you were taking photos at a lower resolution than the sensor itself, so the zoom still looked reasonable.
That was certainly a groundbreaking smartphone at the time, being fast, small and able to play great looking DVD rips with stereo sound at a time when many Symbian phones were mono.
Interestingly, it was released with Windows Mobile 2003SE, but people are still able to run the latest Windows Mobile 6.1 on it, thanks to the ROM flashing community.
I hope that this sort of community becomes available when the Symbian Foundation releases start rolling out.
Just a quick point re: camera - my N95 has a variable aperture lens: f2.8/5.6 is written on the camera; these may be only two steps, not variable, but streets ahead of other phones...... Also, the '28mm' wide-angle is a GREAT feature of the N86, of greatest use for indoor shots. Do we know what the equiv. focal length of the N95 is?
"Umm.... how about a N95-alike, with 2.6" screen and the best qwerty on Symbian OS? It's called the E75 and it's been out for a few months 8-) Camera's not quite as good, but it's really not far off... and it's also in need of its first major firmware update, to speed things up etc.
seki"
please steve please check the e75's got a 2.4" screen. Ummn so what's your point again?
I have the e71 so not sensible for me to move the e75.
@JCB_Digger
"> xenon flash (for the love of god, please!) + video light/torch"
Would you believe me if I told you the N86 does pretty well without the Xenon flash? You just can't compare it to the N95 flash!
I will be releasing a thorough photo comparison by the weekend between it, the SonyEricsson C905 (Xenon Flash) and my digital camera (Sony DSC-T10).
As for the video light, the N86 uses the LEDs as video lights.
2 years is a life time in mobile devlopment. Whilst the N86 is definately an improvement I don't see it being enormous; also the N97 is supposed to be the real replacement and look at the reviews that is getting.
For me, the fact that Nokia haven't replaced last dodgey N95 8GB firmware update (e.g. with the Calander / Alarm issue) from nearly 6 months ago is leading me to question ever buying Nokia again.
I think the form factor won't die down, mainly because nokia likes to have a broad product portfolio and i think the form factor is actually great for gaming.
If i were to change anything on the N86, it's mainly with the screen. A 3" AMOLED would be great and I don't see why they can't fit one in there, with of course, an advanced resolution. Also, I would like it to be touch sensitive as well, mainly for internet browsing purposes, as a TS is easier to navigate the web with, especially with kinetic scrolling and honestly, if I am going to punch out an email, i'd like the option of a TS QWERTY as well. I think that would be a great hybrid device imo.
Something that nokia can do right now is give the user the option of compressing their photo's. I believe the n86 compresses the file about 40% down to about 1.25 mb, where usual 8mp files are around 3.5mb. I understand their reasoning in making the files smaller for mobile uploads, but I would like to see what the full 8MP sensor is capable of on the n86, uncompressed.
Who actually uses the media keys under the top dual slider?
As much as I like them being there, I hardly ever touch them.
Donal wrote:For me, the fact that Nokia haven't replaced last dodgey N95 8GB firmware update (e.g. with the Calander / Alarm issue) from nearly 6 months ago is leading me to question ever buying Nokia again.
Amen to that! Amazing how such a small thing can be so annoying and remains unfixed!
I use the media keys a lot on mine, for N-gage. Worms World Party in fact.
MonzaMike wrote:Just a quick point re: camera - my N95 has a variable aperture lens: f2.8/5.6 is written on the camera; these may be only two steps, not variable, but streets ahead of other phones...... Also, the '28mm' wide-angle is a GREAT feature of the N86, of greatest use for indoor shots. Do we know what the equiv. focal length of the N95 is?
The numbers you are refering to on the N95 are:
2.8 is the aperture - it's fixed at f/2.8
5.6 is the focal length as in 5.6mm
N95 equivalent focal length is 35mm.
Damian
Nokia did a superb idea with the N95 an N95 8gb but since then seen nothing from outstanding from them,N85 an N96 were a waste of time an money an they knew that, thats why we got the N86 with the N85 body on it which was just a cheap cost saving idea from Nokia,Why have Nokia lost it nowdays in the Top Class mobile market seem very odd as everyone after the N95 we would see something more outstanding,the N86 might have a good camera but the buttons an the screen size lets the phone down,Why Couldn"t Nokia have designed a Touch Screen Mobile with Keypads to show they still mean business an still the best but getting worse instead of better alot of people are saying uptil now
Fully agree with you when you say "N86 is, more or less, the ultimate one-handed, dual-slider, S60 phone."
There is still room for improvement of course - as others have said, the battery and the flash are the two that spring to mind - but even in its current form, the N86 feels like the pinnacle of the form factor and, I would argue, of Nokia's current line-up.
Funnily enough, I wrote a post yesterday with a similar topic: Why I think the N86 is the best phone that Nokia currently makes. Those of you who are interested can read it here:
http://theprodigalguide.com/2009/07/20/the-best-phone-nokia-currently-makes-the-n86/