Hey all. Just spotted this on another symbian forum.
http://www.iltalehti.fi/digi/2009083010154551_du.shtml
It's in Finnish but the google translation reads as follows:
Nokia finally admits N97 has a structural defect
Evening Gazette received confirmation of Nokia's flagship phone problems.
Last week, the Evening Gazette reported the Nokia N97 model in relation to defects in the camera lens scratching. At that time, Nokia did not comment on the matter in any way. Now Nokia's fixed communications from defects in leaf. - It has come a number of cases in which the camera lens is scratched, for example, because of hiekanmurujen. We regret that this has occurred. In these cases, the user can contact Nokia customer service. - In some cases, the camera lens is mounted too close to the lens protective glass. In this case, the lens is inserted between the glass and too little room, for example, sand can cause scratches, multiplied by Nokia. When there were problems of communication advising the user to wipe the lens with a soft cloth. - If that does not work or if the problem persists, the phone can be exported for repair. There, the lens is exchanged and ensures that the lens and the space between the protective glass is sufficient. According to Nokia phone warranty covers defects. The number of faulty phones Nokia does not disclose detailed information. - This is not to know extent of the problem. We do not know how many countries, such problems have occurred.
Disruptions in the GPS navigation
IL-Digin readers have reported on the N97's GPS receiver problems. Feedback have been told that the phone loses the GPS signal several times and has been, in some cases, unusable. One reader writes of a case where the N97 lost the signal several times in the Turku motorway and fell to a new route to ten times within a short distance. Nokia for vet�neens� quietly Maps 3 software downloadable software from the list of observed problems. - Nokia Maps 3.0-door version of the touch screen devices have been temporarily withdrawn from the Nokia Software Update, and http://www.nokia.com/maps page, as it made adjustments to improve the navigation experience. - We do not do so unless the software had problems, communication will continue.
By: PAULI REINIKAINEN
It's discussed at http://my-symbian.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40228&sid=39
I've joined, commented & linked to the petition... which now has 642 signatures btw...
That's kind of good news in a way, well done to you and your campaigning, hope you manage to get your N97 sorted.:icon14:
Yes, partial good news in that they admit they have problems.
Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like they have any proper solutions at this time! The lens cover answer is the usual - "take it to Nokia care" - and the GPS issue is linked with Maps 3, which seems doubtful since other apps using the GPS (like Google Maps) experience the same problems on the N97.
Nokia world is only a day away... let's hope they have something better before we all start returning our handset en masse.
i guess it's possible that maps 3 could contain an updated driver for the n97 gps hardware that has a bug in it...
presumably, other software providers may not have access to something at as low a level as nokia might... so if the maps update screws the driver, the api available to other apps might be busted too...
davecozens wrote:i guess it's possible that maps 3 could contain an updated driver for the n97 gps hardware that has a bug in it...presumably, other software providers may not have access to something at as low a level as nokia might... so if the maps update screws the driver, the api available to other apps might be busted too...
It's possible I guess, but how would you explain the fact that some N97 users have no problems with Maps 3 (unless Nokia have been really silly and shipped different GPS hardware in some devices)?
celios wrote:It's possible I guess, but how would you explain the fact that some N97 users have no problems with Maps 3 (unless Nokia have been really silly and shipped different GPS hardware in some devices)?
Maybe it's purely a firmware thing. When my N95 was my primary phone, I wasn't getting a fast lock on my GPS until I upgraded to v30, at which point it was lightning fast! Some people who had v20 and even v12 weren't experiencing the same problems.
My GPS has been perfectly fine on my N97 yet some others are having difficulty with theirs. Maybe v20 firmware (or higher) will fix this issue.
that's a good point mind. if it's affecting arbitary firmware versions and not all instances of that version then it's probably hardware...
or clashing within something else installed on the phone....
I've not looked at the schematics etc for the n97 in detail, but what you say dave is possible (something else could be having an effect).
I'm dredging this info from the recesses of my mind, but I'm pretty sure it's roughly right:
The reason symbian nokias (n series) suddenly got wifi aswell as 3g, FM etc etc - all these different radios - was when the OS kernel became realtime with enough accuracy in timing to act as a software radio (wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software-defined_radio) - where basically you have generic receiving hardware, the appropriate antennae, and then the software handles the filtering and decoding of the signal. So you need less chips/components in the device, just better software. But if the software has bugs, you can reduce the effectiveness of your radios, or introduce errors. And better software filters can improve performance. It's not outwith the realms of possibility that the radio software is tuned to the particular RF characteristics of the different devices and antenna, so firmware improvements could indeed improve GPS reception.
Anyway, that's probably over techy for most, and possibly even plain wrong, I don't have time to re-check that I am right in thinking they use software radios etc.
the_accidental wrote:I've not looked at the schematics etc for the n97 in detail, but what you say dave is possible (something else could be having an effect).I'm dredging this info from the recesses of my mind, but I'm pretty sure it's roughly right:
The reason symbian nokias (n series) suddenly got wifi aswell as 3g, FM etc etc - all these different radios - was when the OS kernel became realtime with enough accuracy in timing to act as a software radio (wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software-defined_radio) - where basically you have generic receiving hardware, the appropriate antennae, and then the software handles the filtering and decoding of the signal. So you need less chips/components in the device, just better software. But if the software has bugs, you can reduce the effectiveness of your radios, or introduce errors. And better software filters can improve performance. It's not outwith the realms of possibility that the radio software is tuned to the particular RF characteristics of the different devices and antenna, so firmware improvements could indeed improve GPS reception.
Anyway, that's probably over techy for most, and possibly even plain wrong, I don't have time to re-check that I am right in thinking they use software radios etc.
Makes sense to me, especially for a mobile device where size is an important factor. Hardware can be huge, but these days we can fit up to 32Gb of data on a memory card the size of a thumbnail, so software (physical size-wise) could be a better choice.
First of all it's not only ovi Maps 3 .. (the problem is seen with 3rd party apps like Garmin Mobile XT , Gmaps etc) but most important it is seen on Applications - Location - GPS Data
An embedded app that shows the Position showing coordinates and satelite status
2. N95 Did not had that issue .. up until v20 the lock was slow coz there was no AGPS functionality .. at v20 This was introduced and the locking become faster .. the problem with N97 as I see it (and it is proven by GPS fix when adding antena) is the poor signal .. I got the lock .. but is very weak .. and when a little interfierence appears the unit loses signal = wrong coordinates = jumping over the map .. from one street to another ...
So I am a sceptic that the GPS issue can be fixed via Firmware update ..
and still think this is a design/factory fault ..
So I am waiting till Nokia World too see if there will be some comments about the faulty GPS and self scrathing camera lens .. and probably will return my phone for repair/exchange it for a new one that does not have theese issues
ltomovski wrote:2. N95 Did not had that issue .. up until v20 the lock was slow coz there was no AGPS functionality .. at v20 This was introduced and the locking become faster .. the problem with N97 as I see it (and it is proven by GPS fix when adding antena) is the poor signal .. I got the lock .. but is very weak .. and when a little interfierence appears the unit loses signal = wrong coordinates = jumping over the map .. from one street to another ...
Yes A-GPS was introduced in v20 but as I wrote previously, mine wouldn't work properly until I got v30 and some people weren't reporting a problem even on early firmware like v12.
So... the N95 did, in fact, have that issue. I should know. I had one.
the_accidental wrote:I've not looked at the schematics etc for the n97 in detail, but what you say dave is possible (something else could be having an effect).I'm dredging this info from the recesses of my mind, but I'm pretty sure it's roughly right:
The reason symbian nokias (n series) suddenly got wifi aswell as 3g, FM etc etc - all these different radios - was when the OS kernel became realtime with enough accuracy in timing to act as a software radio (wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software-defined_radio) - where basically you have generic receiving hardware, the appropriate antennae, and then the software handles the filtering and decoding of the signal. So you need less chips/components in the device, just better software. But if the software has bugs, you can reduce the effectiveness of your radios, or introduce errors. And better software filters can improve performance. It's not outwith the realms of possibility that the radio software is tuned to the particular RF characteristics of the different devices and antenna, so firmware improvements could indeed improve GPS reception.
Anyway, that's probably over techy for most, and possibly even plain wrong, I don't have time to re-check that I am right in thinking they use software radios etc.
If it was firmware related, why would people on the same firmware (and product code) have different experiences?
Very interesting about the radios BTW. Although GPS is a radio signal, it needs a different aerial I think. My guess is that the design of the aerial in the N97 is (like the lens cover) too sensitive to manufacturing defects (that Nokia did then not detect).
Strike two Nokia!
Just fired off the following (excerpted) email to Nokia press office: -
[INDENT]...
There has been an article published in Finnish at
http://www.iltalehti.fi/digi/2009083010154551_du.shtml regarding known
issues with the N97.
The context of the article suggests that Nokia corporately agree that there
are generic hardware issues relating to the N97 GPS Receiver and the N97
Sliding Lens Cover that have affected an undisclosed number of N97 devices.
The article also states that affected devices will be repaired under
warranty as required.
At this time, do Nokia have any further comment to make regarding a long
term solution to these ongoing issues - since currently (for example)
replacing the lens cover on the N97 via a Nokia Care Point is a short term
solution only - the lens cover soon causes fresh scratches on affected
devices.
A petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/N97lens/petition.html has
gathered nearly 700 signatures in a 2 week period so this issue is
certainly not affecting low numbers of devices - as a low percentage of N97
users will even be aware of the petition in question. And of course,
financially, 700 N97 owners equates to somewhere in the region of �350,000
retail value.
Please advise...[/INDENT]
I'll let you know if I get any response...
Re: the GPS issue (which I haven't experienced yet), I notice this morning that Maps 3.1 is now showing as available via the N87 SW Update app.
The behavior of the GPS is strange... Did you try this :
Go underground very deeply
Disconnect your N97 from network using the appropriate mode
Run Applications - Location - GPS Data and look at sat informations :
You will see some rectangles (sat the phoe can see), but you're underground and with no AGPS, how can the phone "see" sat, impossible !
Remove the SIM card and do the same thing :
you will see no sat rectangles. It is normal : no sat availbale undergroung.
But, in the two experiences you are underground and AGPS is not used (not connected to network).
But the phone behaves differently.
Please, can you try and comment ?
What do you think of that ?
Thank you.
I've just spoken to the N97 hotline, (the number that Dave posted) and he told me that the Lens will now be repaired at any Care point under warranty, but that the GPS might not be, because apparently V12 is meant to fix it!
Nobody who has V12 seems to have mentioned that it's cured their GPS ails though, right?
Firmware v12 did not fix my N97 GPS problem, I called Three who sent a repair envelope and then replaced the phone. The new one came with v11 firmware and the GPS worked beautifully. I've now applied v12 firmware and OVI Maps 3 (which is available again for the N97) and GPS is still A-OK.
matthewrleech wrote:Firmware v12 did not fix my N97 GPS problem, I called Three who sent a repair envelope and then replaced the phone. The new one came with v11 firmware and the GPS worked beautifully. I've now applied v12 firmware and OVI Maps 3 (which is available again for the N97) and GPS is still A-OK.
Hi, did they say that they were going to replace it or did you have to send it in 'for repair' and just got a new one?
Also, did you get a warranty replacement despite having debranded the phone?
Seft wrote:Hi, did they say that they were going to replace it or did you have to send it in 'for repair' and just got a new one?Also, did you get a warranty replacement despite having debranded the phone?
Good questions Seft, I'd also like to know the answers because I'm on Three too (although I haven't debranded my phone).
I'm having major GPS issues. I'm on my second N97 and am currently on the V11. Sadly I didn't have the first N97 long enough to test out the GPS etc (it died) so I can't comment on whether they are using diferent GPS hardware (unlikely).
It would be good to know if a "repair centre" could fix the problem along with my scratched lens.
I assume they can replace the lens but the same thing will happen soon after? :con?
Edit: The problems I'm having are with Nokia Maps version v3.01. I've tried to apply the 3.1 update from SW Update application but it doesn't seem to update the application (when viewed from the About screen in Maps). Once installed I can go back to the SW Update application and the Maps 3.1 update appears again in the list as well as my "previously successful installed updates".
So yes, I can be driving around and have no signal and then suddenly the signal bar fills up half way and then drops out etc. etc. so it's basically unusable. I'm thinking of dusting down my trusty N95 because this is just ridiculous.
matthewrleech wrote:Firmware v12 did not fix my N97 GPS problem, I called Three who sent a repair envelope and then replaced the phone. The new one came with v11 firmware and the GPS worked beautifully. I've now applied v12 firmware and OVI Maps 3 (which is available again for the N97) and GPS is still A-OK.
When you say it works beautifully, what sort of signal are you getting, what's the accuracy like? My phone is from Three as well