Webbunny wrote:I would kindly ask those reading this to please read this rant by Stephen Fry:
http://www.stephenfry.com/2008/12/11/gee-one-bold-storm-coming-up%E2%80%A6/
This page hit headlines because he was very cruel about the Blackberry Storm. But it touches on this idea of enjoying your daily tools, the paragraph that starts "Looking back, then, at the first phase in the history of smart communication devices...."
I think it's nice that you've got someone to look up to, but do you have an opinion/mid of your own?
The electronic gadget toys are way down on my list of lifes most important matters. People should be interacting with each other, not battery powered devices they keep in their pockets.
You'll have people caressing door handles and sniffing the fragrance of lawnmowers next.
Good enough is OK for most things, but doing things really well should be saved and concentrated on the real important things, like your family and friends.
Excuse me, I need to go and enjoy opening my fridge door. It opens so beautifully, a joy to behold. It has a kinetic movement that fills my soul with a joy that I can't get elsewhere.
These geeks are really wierd.
Mr Mark wrote:Or you can throw cowardly anonymous insults and have no credibility. Up to you, sport.
I do believe the poster was asking if you possess the power of speech..
<img src="http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/1/1/3/3/iphone3.jpg"></img>
I agree with Webbunny.
The things that's "wrong" with S60 is it complexity; hard to use or figure out by average Joe or dumb phone users.
The thing that iphone was successful on is making dumb users feel smart by making their phone very very easy to use.
If a phone can do one thing, it needs to do that thing and do it well, if a phone can do 2 thing it needs to do that 2 things well.
Nokia phones can do many things; but they fail to organized all that good features in a user-friendly manner.
Lets hope Maemo straighten things out and keeps use happy while S60/Symbian makes a major face lift.
For s60, we won't see it's rebirth until Symbian^4 around 2012.
Hi,
I am not sure if somebody has already replied 😉
But X Series == Xpress Music Phones
Nokia's Next Series phones after E and N Series 😊
ming387 wrote:I agree with Webbunny.The things that's "wrong" with S60 is it complexity; hard to use or figure out by average Joe or dumb phone users.
The thing that iphone was successful on is making dumb users feel smart by making their phone very very easy to use.
If a phone can do one thing, it needs to do that thing and do it well, if a phone can do 2 thing it needs to do that 2 things well.
Nokia phones can do many things; but they fail to organized all that good features in a user-friendly manner.
Lets hope Maemo straighten things out and keeps use happy while S60/Symbian makes a major face lift.
For s60, we won't see it's rebirth until Symbian^4 around 2012.
S60 isn't particularly complex. The UI is simple, menus are easy enough to navigate.
I had a 5800 as a "free" upgrade - decided after a couple of days that it didn't really suit me as well as the N95, so gave the 5800 to my step son. He's 16 years old, and has had no problems whatsoever in using it.
The iPhone arguably over-simplifies things, and as a consequence can make life a mild nightmare in synching music/podcasts. I've got a 5th Gen Video and a 2nd Gen Touch - the Touch will not allow me to manually sync podcasts no matter what I do, whereas the Video just lets me be in control.
The folder structure on S60 makes life a lot easier than the flat system on the iPhone - I personally prefer being able to put applications into folders such as media, internet, games, applications.
I do like the iPhone, and it has made all others reconsider their designs, which has to be a good thing.
Oh, and Maemo won't necessarily improve on anything, although personally I think it'll fit my requirements absolutely perfectly.
Unregistered wrote:The electronic gadget toys are way down on my list of lifes most important matters. People should be interacting with each other, not battery powered devices they keep in their pockets.
Whoever this is, is now just being flame bait. Well, I'll bite....
Firstly, you seem to be stating that this is an 'either/or' situation, that anyone that spends what you seem to think is an unhealthy amount of time using their mobile is incapable of interacting with people. Total bunk.
Secondly, since the battery powered devices everyone discusses here are phones, you will find that there is usually someone on the other end of the line, or the other side of the chat session. In my case, they are my friends, who sadly dont live walking distance away any more, and who I cant get to see face to face often enough. The battery powered device bridges that gap.
Thirdly, doing things really well should never be saved for one thing, 'good enough' is a total misnomer, everyone should strive to do things really well, always. If you find yourself incapable of achieving this, please refrain from dragging us perfectionists down to your mediocracy.
And lastly, a recently used, still warm petrol lawnmower can smell bloody good :tongue:
Andy
Mr Mark wrote:Well why don't you explain why it isn't and when you're finished I'll be nice and tell you exactly why Mobile OS X is a more demanding mobile OS than Symbian (if you're clever enough - which I doubt - you'll notice Webbunny alludes to the reasons in his post) and its S60v5 layer?Or you can throw cowardly anonymous insults and have no credibility. Up to you, sport.
Do you think the iphone 3G and 2G is are slow machines? Do you think the N97 is a fast machine?
I think you just don�t know what you are talking about. Both the iPhone 3G and 2G with OS 3.0 are fast enough for general use, certainly not slower than the n97 with the "less demanding" s60 v5. They also have similar ammount of total and free RAM after boot. And similar processor.
The 3gs, of course, it�s another story, because it completely trashes anything Nokia has in the hardware department, minus the upcoming n900. Try one, and you�ll, instead of making stuff up
My point...OSX mobile is not more demanding than s60 v5 - and yes, i tried an n97 for an extended period of time.
Just to end it, your claim that Apple had to put a 600mhz processor on the 3GS just because OSX mobile is more demanding than s60 is completely RIDICULOUS
Maybe you should tell that to Samsung (i8910) and Sony Ericsson (Satio)...they missed the fact s60 v5 is so powerfull and spent money on using the exact same processor used on the 3GS
The original iPhone and 3G were fast enough for general use even before OS 3.0, now they are faster still. A point I was making earlier was that these 2 devices have a main processor and a graphics co-processor, and a lot of the 'eye candy' is offloaded to the graphics processor. But together they are less than 1.5x as powerful as the chips in an N95. Nokias S60 5th Ed devices haven't had a co-pro, and have higher res screens that an iPhone, so the main CPU has to do all the graphics work and has more work to do.
So I was hoping the devices announced yesterday would do something about this to compensate.
Is iPhone OS more demanding that Symbian? Yes and No!
No, because as I just said the original iPhone is less than double the processing power of an N95, with double the screen res, and is perfectly responsive and usable.
Yes, because (and here is the important point), iPhone OS (and Android, and Maemo) are Desktop OS's that were never designed from day 1 to work on devices with small batteries. The iPhone OS, even without allowing you to run more than one app at once, still seems to have higher sustained CPU usage than something like Symbian, and this hits the battery. Note I didnt say iPhone OS cant multitask, that isn't true, it is multitasking under the covers, you as the user are just restricted from putting an app into the background. The reason for this restriction is that the battery life is bad enough as it is, and the battery is sealed in so you cant carry a spare (although you can use external charger packs... 😛uke😊.
Symbian seems to have 'battery usage aware multitasking'. This is Symbians major advantage. Give me a device with the battery life of a Symbian device, and the responsiveness and 'designed for finger touchscreen' UI of an iPhone, and I'm there. I expect we will get something like this with Symbian^4, Q2 2011. I'm just impatient :tongue:
Andy
"I should also point out that the iPhone 3GS runs at 600 MHz because Mobile OS X is a hell of a lot more demanding than S60v5."
''is this for real? or are you just plain DUMB?''
He's plain dumb. 3GS has a far more advanced cpu than the one used in any nokia phone[bar the N900].
It's like comparing a i7 @ 3ghz to a P4 @ 3 Ghz.
Ok the difference might not be that huge, but even if OSX was 100 times more demanding than S60, it would still run smoother with it's cpu than S60 with it's really really really outdated cpu.
Unregistered wrote:I'd still take the Samsung I8910 which runs S60v5!
I already did. 😃 I was a bit worried i'd jumped too soon (3 weeks ago) as i knew Nokia World was coming up. But there's nothing that's made me go "Damn, should have waited".
N900, sure, but it's a brand new OS (for phones anyway). I can wait until its been around the block a couple of times and matured (again, as a phone OS, i had an N810).
The netbook/laptop/notebook/whatever. Again, almost. Now if they had made it into a capacitive tablet.....
antonioj wrote:Do you think the iphone 3G and 2G is are slow machines? Do you think the N97 is a fast machine?
What's your point here? The iPhone v1 and 3G both suffered from lag as does the N97. On the other hand the N97 can comfortably cope with third party multi-tasking without unacceptable power loss which the iPhone struggles with. Also, the v1.0 and v2.0 firmware versions for the iPhone and iPhone 3G were slow and buggy just like the current N97 is on its firmware. Perhaps you should compare them when the N97 is using mature firmware too, hmm?
I think you just don�t know what you are talking about. Both the iPhone 3G and 2G with OS 3.0 are fast enough for general use, certainly not slower than the n97 with the "less demanding" s60 v5. They also have similar ammount of total and free RAM after boot. And similar processor.
Yes... and? They still lagged on initial firmware and still can't effectively multitask without power management issues. Also, do you think that Mobile OS X could comfortably run on an ARM11 clocked at 369MHz like S60v5 does?
The 3gs, of course, it�s another story, because it completely trashes anything Nokia has in the hardware department, minus the upcoming n900. Try one, and you�ll, instead of making stuff up.
Yes... and?
My point...OSX mobile is not more demanding than s60 v5 - and yes, i tried an n97 for an extended period of time.
Your point is wrong because your sole method of comparison is the immature firmware on the N97. On the other hand you could have considered the kernel structures, power management and application layers for both Symbian and Mobile OS X and it would have been pretty clear to you why Mobile OS X requires more horsepower to function than Symbian does.
Mobile OS X requires more horsepower to run than Symbian does. That's a fact and having a hissy fit isn't going to change that. As for your comment about the i8910 and Saito... so what? They use more powerful hardware but they don't need to as much as the iPhone 3GS does.
Read Webbunny's post for more detail if you can't be bothered doing the research yourself.
Unregistered wrote:
He's plain dumb. 3GS has a far more advanced cpu than the one used in any nokia phone[bar the N900]. It's like comparing a i7 @ 3ghz to a P4 @ 3 Ghz.
Ok the difference might not be that huge, but even if OSX was 100 times more demanding than S60, it would still run smoother with it's cpu than S60 with it's really really really outdated cpu.
Well duh! That's the whole point - Mobile OS X is more demanding than Symbian which is why it either has to strip back its functionality or ...drumroll... use a more powerful CPU!
But thanks for playing!
I just watched a hands-on video of the X6, where the Nokia employee demoing the phone said there's no microsd slot. Is it true? If so, it's incredibly dumb. 32GB microsd cards are expected to arrive this winter, probably by the time the X6 goes on sale.
Mr Mark wrote:What's your point here? The iPhone v1 and 3G both suffered from lag as does the N97. On the other hand the N97 can comfortably cope with third party multi-tasking without unacceptable power loss which the iPhone struggles with. Also, the v1.0 and v2.0 firmware versions for the iPhone and iPhone 3G were slow and buggy just like the current N97 is on its firmware. Perhaps you should compare them when the N97 is using mature firmware too, hmm?Yes... and? They still lagged on initial firmware and still can't effectively multitask without power management issues. Also, do you think that Mobile OS X could comfortably run on an ARM11 clocked at 369MHz like S60v5 does?
Yes... and?
Your point is wrong because your sole method of comparison is the immature firmware on the N97. On the other hand you could have considered the kernel structures, power management and application layers for both Symbian and Mobile OS X and it would have been pretty clear to you why Mobile OS X requires more horsepower to function than Symbian does.
Mobile OS X requires more horsepower to run than Symbian does. That's a fact and having a hissy fit isn't going to change that. As for your comment about the i8910 and Saito... so what? They use more powerful hardware but they don't need to as much as the iPhone 3GS does.
Read Webbunny's post for more detail if you can't be bothered doing the research yourself.
Well duh! That's the whole point - Mobile OS X is more demanding than Symbian which is why it either has to strip back its functionality or ...drumroll... use a more powerful CPU!
But thanks for playing!
In what sort of alternative Universe do you live in?
antonioj wrote:In what sort of alternative Universe do you live in?
One where I expect people to be able to refute statements rather than making pointless insults.
Was there anything else or are we done here?
It is true, its the 1st Nokia phone to come with a capacitive touchscreen. Got the full device details here-
http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/X6
Looks interesting, and I hear they're pricing at EU 350? That's certainly competitive.
~ RVD
RVD wrote:It is true, its the 1st Nokia phone to come with a capacitive touchscreen. Got the full device details here-http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/X6
Looks interesting, and I hear they're pricing at EU 350? That's certainly competitive.
~ RVD
That does explain everything, thanks!
Altho I'm not so sure that it'll be priced at EU 350..