[quote="Kev"]You know, Elvis is alive, and he has a Nokia smartphone with a decent email client that is easy to setup out of the box, and when you read the email it does not look like something out of the 80's.[/quote]
That should be pinned up in the Nokia board room. Whenever they start talking about how they're "Democratizing The Smartphone", someone should hit them over the head with it.
Mr Mark wrote:Sure, and two years from now they'll be getting whatever's hot whether that's an iPhone, a Nokia, an HTC or something else.
They'll probably upgrade to a 4th gen iPhone. That will arrive right in the middle of one of Nokia's weakest years for new handsets for many a moon and pound their profitability further into the ground!
S60 needs to be retired on the touchscreen phones, but if they do this they end up making the existing back catalogue incompatible with the new devices, handing iPhone and Android an even bigger lead on that front.
S40, S60, Maemo... people talk about Android fragmentation, but Nokia are managing to fragment themselves! What is the point of Maemo if they will still continue to offer high end Symbian based handsets. They must feel they have R&D capacity to spare (maybe should have dedicated some to the N97... BEFORE it was released 😃).
Unregistered wrote:They'll probably upgrade to a 4th gen iPhone. That will arrive right in the middle of one of Nokia's weakest years for new handsets for many a moon and pound their profitability further into the ground!S60 needs to be retired on the touchscreen phones, but if they do this they end up making the existing back catalogue incompatible with the new devices, handing iPhone and Android an even bigger lead on that front.
S40, S60, Maemo... people talk about Android fragmentation, but Nokia are managing to fragment themselves! What is the point of Maemo if they will still continue to offer high end Symbian based handsets. They must feel they have R&D capacity to spare (maybe should have dedicated some to the N97... BEFORE it was released 😃).
So you think Samsung are getting wrong by introducing Bada alongside Android, which will follow up their WinMo and Symbian offerings?
It's really not a big deal. Nobody wants an iPhone 1.
kevwright wrote:@ajckYou know, Elvis is alive, and he has a Nokia smartphone with a decent email client that is easy to setup out of the box, and when you read the email it does not look like something out of the 80's.
Kev
So, Elvis has Profimail then. Sensible. 20 euros well spent.
Unregistered wrote:So you think Samsung are getting wrong by introducing Bada alongside Android, which will follow up their WinMo and Symbian offerings?
Samsung have dropped Symbian and should drop Windows Mobile. I have no idea what they plan for Bada - perhaps it's for lower end smartphones, or perhaps they too have money to burn on development costs. If they want to differentiate their phone they can stick their own features / UI enhancements on top of Android as HTC have done with Sense UI.
Unregistered wrote:So, Elvis has Profimail then. Sensible. 20 euros well spent.
Elvis has left the building... no he hasn't... no wait, he's left... no, now he's 100m away on a different street. Oh, if only my N97 GPS worked properly.
Nokia strategy makes sens. By the end of 2010 there will be 2 OS, Symbian^4 and Maemo 6, both being open source and using Qt as the main framework. The only difference for the consumer will be:
Do I want a phone with a linux terminal or not?
Symbian being more versatile than Maemo, it is far from being dead and that's good news.
I'm sorry but whoever is spouting that rubbish about his friend losing his iTunes library because of a bug is full of bollocks! What absolute tosh!
It just goes to show that some folks will say anything to help their side of the argument! As anyone, and I mean anyone will be able to tell you that whilst downloading a song from iTunes (be it Computer or OTA using an iPhone/Touch) the song(s) don't show up in the player until after they've been downloaded, so your friend couldn't have possible "Tried to play a song whilst it was downloading" !!
And if it was from another method (Say d/l from outside iTunes) then that must mean he has a J/B model, which also makes your argument completely void!
Some peoples stupidity amaze me, they clearly mock a device without having even used one!
Good day!
Unregistered wrote:Samsung have dropped Symbian and should drop Windows Mobile. I have no idea what they plan for Bada - perhaps it's for lower end smartphones, or perhaps they too have money to burn on development costs. If they want to differentiate their phone they can stick their own features / UI enhancements on top of Android as HTC have done with Sense UI.
Samsung have dropped i8910 then? Best tell everyone to stop buying a product thats on the shelves but apparently not available then, and is arguably one of the best S60 Touch devices on the market.
Nokia have long had the strategy of having S60 replace S40 - I still don't think its quite ready though. And they've had a long time to get it ready, but typically of Nokia they seem to have stood still while the rest of the market has moved on.
So much wasted potential :frown:
@kevwright: Please keep your posts coming, the lack of logic and consistency, and absence of facts is entertaining and as good as any fairy story 😉
I particularly like your statement that Nokia lose money on 5800 sales and then in a later post state that they don't release information on whether this is the case or not. Always amusing to see someone completely undermine themselves 😉
ajck wrote:@kevwright: Please keep your posts coming, the lack of logic and consistency, and absence of facts is entertaining and as good as any fairy story 😉I particularly like your statement that Nokia lose money on 5800 sales and then in a later post state that they don't release information on whether this is the case or not. Always amusing to see someone completely undermine themselves 😉
Yes I liked that a lot too. Keep 'm coming keywright. Also, I like all commentards telling Nokia how to operate in one of the most competitive markets around.
Enjoy your hubris guys!
Bollocks! wrote:I'm sorry but whoever is spouting that rubbish about his friend losing his iTunes library because of a bug is full of bollocks! What absolute tosh!It just goes to show that some folks will say anything to help their side of the argument! As anyone, and I mean anyone will be able to tell you that whilst downloading a song from iTunes (be it Computer or OTA using an iPhone/Touch) the song(s) don't show up in the player until after they've been downloaded, so your friend couldn't have possible "Tried to play a song whilst it was downloading" !!
And if it was from another method (Say d/l from outside iTunes) then that must mean he has a J/B model, which also makes your argument completely void!
Some peoples stupidity amaze me, they clearly mock a device without having even used one!
Good day!
It happened, you are wrong and a liar.
Bollocks! wrote:I'm sorry but whoever is spouting that rubbish about his friend losing his iTunes library because of a bug is full of bollocks! What absolute tosh!It just goes to show that some folks will say anything to help their side of the argument! As anyone, and I mean anyone will be able to tell you that whilst downloading a song from iTunes (be it Computer or OTA using an iPhone/Touch) the song(s) don't show up in the player until after they've been downloaded, so your friend couldn't have possible "Tried to play a song whilst it was downloading" !!
And if it was from another method (Say d/l from outside iTunes) then that must mean he has a J/B model, which also makes your argument completely void!
Some peoples stupidity amaze me, they clearly mock a device without having even used one!
Good day!
Just to clarify, not that I should need to, an album was being downloaded, the track was a completed track download which was part of an album being download. When the album download completed with the track still playing the itunes db was corrupted, and the music became unusable. Merely syncing would not help, and a third party software package was needed to correct it.
Not jailbroken. Standard iPhone fcked itself up. I also have an iPhone myself issued by my employer.
Some people's arrogance amazes me. The clearly spout off thinking they know it all when they know fk all.
u cnut.
clonmult wrote:Samsung have dropped i8910 then? Best tell everyone to stop buying a product thats on the shelves but apparently not available then, and is arguably one of the best S60 Touch devices on the market.Nokia have long had the strategy of having S60 replace S40 - I still don't think its quite ready though. And they've had a long time to get it ready, but typically of Nokia they seem to have stood still while the rest of the market has moved on.
So much wasted potential :frown:
They are selling the i8910, but only a fool would buy one as they won't be selling any more Symbian or Windows Mobile phones and have publically committed to Android and Bada.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_announce_bada_os_axing_symbian_and_winmo_-news-1245.php
Basically i8910 owners have been screwed and will be getting very little support.
ajck wrote:@kevwright: Please keep your posts coming, the lack of logic and consistency, and absence of facts is entertaining and as good as any fairy story 😉I particularly like your statement that Nokia lose money on 5800 sales and then in a later post state that they don't release information on whether this is the case or not. Always amusing to see someone completely undermine themselves 😉
What, you mean the bit where I say "The Comes with Music clearly helped, but don't Nokia lose dosh on each and every one of those?"
That seems to be question (the clue is the little ? at the end), rather than a statement, but hey, whatever. Someone else answered the question who claimed insider knowledge and you will see I accepted that without question.
Still, nice that you chose to (wrongly) pick on this part of my reply to your orginal post rather that rise to the actual challenge about iPhone price later in the post.
Still, can't undermine yourself if you chose to not back up your statements huh 😊
Kev
Except, celios, you are, as usual, wrong.
Samsung are not dropping Symbian.
I think at the moment Apple have the best overall high end smartphone out there. I also think their market share is going to contract pretty substantially in the next two years.
Nokia will continue to prosper. When you're as big as they are you can afford to sit back and see where the market's going.
As for the comment about an e-mail client that's not in the 80's, I take it that the user hasn't actually used the latest version of Nokia Messaging then? Also, CWM is realy only going mainstream in the UK with the X6 which i'm going to bet will outsell the iPhone.
GJW wrote:Yes I liked that a lot too. Keep 'm coming keywright. Also, I like all commentards telling Nokia how to operate in one of the most competitive markets around.Enjoy your hubris guys!
I have spent over �6000 on Nokia kit in my lifetime, and around �1500 of that in the last year. I reckon that gives me a say, esp when I want a Nokia to be at least as good as an iPhone and it simply ain't anymore 😞
I will comment where, how and when I please, after all, is there any other points to a "comments" section, other than making comments?
Kev
Mr Mark wrote:Except, celios, you are, as usual, wrong.Nokia will continue to prosper. When you're as big as they are you can afford to sit back and see where the market's going.
As for the comment about an e-mail client that's not in the 80's, I take it that the user hasn't actually used the latest version of Nokia Messaging then? Also, CWM is realy only going mainstream in the UK with the X6 which i'm going to bet will outsell the iPhone.
Not sure anyone is so big they can sit back can they?
Anyway, as for email, that was me, and you are right, I have not used the very latest version of Nokia Messaging, and the reason is that it will not let me login, all emails to Nokia go unanswered, and you can not reg the same gmail address twice so the dumb system is not letting me try it.
Is it any good then?
Kev
Mr Mark wrote:Except, celios, you are, as usual, wrong.Samsung are not dropping Symbian.
I think at the moment Apple have the best overall high end smartphone out there. I also think their market share is going to contract pretty substantially in the next two years.
Nokia will continue to prosper. When you're as big as they are you can afford to sit back and see where the market's going.
As for the comment about an e-mail client that's not in the 80's, I take it that the user hasn't actually used the latest version of Nokia Messaging then? Also, CWM is realy only going mainstream in the UK with the X6 which i'm going to bet will outsell the iPhone.
From the article you link to above:
"However, it�s worth looking at Samsung�s words closely � it simply says it�s continuing to support Symbian. That doesn�t necessarily mean it�ll be busting a gut to develop new Symbian handsets. "
🙄
Here is a link to the interview with the Samsung VP: http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20091111PD205.html
"Samsung Electronics will continue to adopt Windows Mobile- and Android-based platforms for new smartphones launched in 2010, with another focus on in-house developed open operating system Samsung Bada, according to senior vice president Don Joo Lee. The executive added that Samsung may not roll out new Symbian-based models globally in 2010.
But the company said some Symbian handsets will still hit the Taiwan market at the end of 2009 or in early 2010.
Samsung's handset shipments will top 200 million units in 2009 and the volume is likely to increase 10-20% in 2010, buoyed by the development of new technologies and the launch of new models, Lee said.
Samung will continue to strengthen its deployment in HD displays, high performance CPUs and LTE technology for handsets, Lee stated.
Samsung is currently the top handset vendor in a number of markets, including the US, the UK, France, Russia, the Netherlands and Chile, Lee said, noting that the company's market share in France is even as high as 40%.
Samsung launched on November 10 its Corby S3650 touchscreen handset in the Taiwan market targeting the mid-range segment."
Sounds like he's letting you down gently 😉
Oh look, Nokia have done some pretty pictures showing what their new UI might look like:
http://gizmodo.com/5417896/nokia-previews-faster-prettier-symbian-user-interface-for-2010
Hmmm, looks a little bit like something Google know about:
Well, if you can't beat them, copy them :rofl:
^ i'm sorry, I was about to agree on your points but just because of your last post about nokia copying android, you lost me there. You are begining to sound like one of those rabid apple fanboys with that comment.
how about this ,,apple and google copied nokia and decided to put battery bars/clock/signal bars on their OS.
celios wrote:Oh look, Nokia have done some pretty pictures showing what their new UI might look like:
http://gizmodo.com/5417896/nokia-previews-faster-prettier-symbian-user-interface-for-2010
Hmmm, looks a little bit like something Google know about:
Well, if you can't beat them, copy them :rofl:
And of course the google UI is nothing whatsoever like the front end that HTC have been putting on Windows for a while.
Its just a standard desktop metaphor. Nothing new has been done on that design for a good few years now.
Another point - Samsung (and Motorola to some extent) are unsure as to what to back in the market. They've been doing their own UI/OS in varying forms, Android, WM and Symbian in parallel. Talk about trying to cover all the bases.
There is very little to differentiate the various Android models out there at the moment. At least the i8910 stood out from the crowd of Symbian Touch devices, with a better camera, higher quality video recording and a considerably better screen (and better hardware as well).
Until they sell off their share of the Symbian foundation (being one of the founding members), then they're still on board. When they sell off their percentage, then I'll tend to agree - thats them out of the Symbian market completely.
celios wrote:
Well, if you can't beat them, copy them :rofl:
Well, at least we can say they will not copy Apple.
Anyone see this quote?
"The development of mobile phones will be similar in PCs. Even with the Mac, Apple has attracted much attention at first, but they have still remained a niche manufacturer. That will be in mobile phones as well.�
That was probably Steve Ballmer about 2-3 years ago right?
Nope, it was Anssi Vanjoki, Nokia's chief strategist. And he said it just a few days ago LOL.
Still not to worry guys, he has it sussed, (he is CHIEF stategist after all 😊, here is another quote.
"But I am very confident that we now know what we must do, namely to build cell phones that are easy to use and that look good."
Hell, I am never gonna play that guy at chess.
Kev
Funny to see all these blinkered iPhone and Android fans first criticise Nokia for not having a UI etc as good as Apple/Android (unfairly I'd say) and then when shown Nokia's plans or actual devices come out, then criticise Nokia for somehow copying Apple/Android (again unfairly). As others have remarked, these basic UI concepts are old hat.
And may I remind you that Nokia are currently suing Apple because Apple decided to rip multiple Nokia mobile technologies off and not pay for the tech, unlike all other manufacturers (including Android ones).
Everyone in the market is influencing everyone else, and that's the way it should be.
One has to ask what is the underlying cause of people criticising Nokia here? If you love iPhone and Android, then stick with it and shut up - I mean what's the problem? We know poor old Kev Wright isn't happy with his share performance but so what? Sell the shares! Or wait for them to improve! We don't care!
Dear me. Wait and see, iPhone will always remain niche, very low penetration. Android is highly unproven and technical unstable on multiple fronts. Symbian is without doubt the best and most stable mobile OS in the world (and widely regarded as such by the way), and S60 does indeed need a bit of a revamp but not as much as people are making out.
Personally although I like iPhone, it's a bit like a child's toy - colourful, safe, limited, and simple. Give me multitasking and a decent camera and GPS any day, and a phone that can take serious physical punishment. An iPhone can't compare to my old battered N82 on these fronts.
That's right there's no problems on the good ship Nokia that's why the N97 is such an amazing device with hardly any defects worth mentioning and their profitability has been so stellar for the last 2 sets of results easily outstripping Samsung and Apple and in no way resembling Sony Ericssons'.
All is well keep calm
clonmult wrote:And of course the google UI is nothing whatsoever like the front end that HTC have been putting on Windows for a while.Its just a standard desktop metaphor. Nothing new has been done on that design for a good few years now.
Since you missed it, I'll point it out to you...
What have they done on that UI prototype to replace the "menu" button that S60 handsets have? No menu button on the device, so I wonder how you get to your apps? It looks suspiciously like they've replaced it with those 'dots' at the bottom of the screen in the middle. Now, I wonder which other current mobile OS has a similar feature? Let me see. Is it iPhone? No... maybe Windows Mobile? Nope. Is it Android? Oh yes, silly me.
Certainly the concept of widgets is nothing new. Although I think the Sense UI was actually created for Android and then back ported to Windows Mobile. The graphical style is similar to the TouchFLO interface that HTC previously deployed on Windows Mobile (which did not allow the user to position the widget anywhere on the screen as per the Android UI and the Nokia 'concept'😉.
It's not obvious from the pics but I wonder if they have a notifications panel you can drag down from the top of the screen? After all, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery 🙄
kevwright wrote:Well, at least we can say they will not copy Apple.Anyone see this quote?
"The development of mobile phones will be similar in PCs. Even with the Mac, Apple has attracted much attention at first, but they have still remained a niche manufacturer. That will be in mobile phones as well.�
That was probably Steve Ballmer about 2-3 years ago right?
Nope, it was Anssi Vanjoki, Nokia's chief strategist. And he said it just a few days ago LOL.
Still not to worry guys, he has it sussed, (he is CHIEF stategist after all 😊, here is another quote.
"But I am very confident that we now know what we must do, namely to build cell phones that are easy to use and that look good."
Hell, I am never gonna play that guy at chess.
Kev
Seems like denial isn't just a river in Egypt... :laugh:
Unregistered wrote:Funny to see all these blinkered iPhone and Android fans first criticise Nokia for not having a UI etc as good as Apple/Android (unfairly I'd say) and then when shown Nokia's plans or actual devices come out, then criticise Nokia for somehow copying Apple/Android (again unfairly). As others have remarked, these basic UI concepts are old hat.And may I remind you that Nokia are currently suing Apple because Apple decided to rip multiple Nokia mobile technologies off and not pay for the tech, unlike all other manufacturers (including Android ones).
Everyone in the market is influencing everyone else, and that's the way it should be.
One has to ask what is the underlying cause of people criticising Nokia here? If you love iPhone and Android, then stick with it and shut up - I mean what's the problem? We know poor old Kev Wright isn't happy with his share performance but so what? Sell the shares! Or wait for them to improve! We don't care!
Dear me. Wait and see, iPhone will always remain niche, very low penetration. Android is highly unproven and technical unstable on multiple fronts. Symbian is without doubt the best and most stable mobile OS in the world (and widely regarded as such by the way), and S60 does indeed need a bit of a revamp but not as much as people are making out.
Personally although I like iPhone, it's a bit like a child's toy - colourful, safe, limited, and simple. Give me multitasking and a decent camera and GPS any day, and a phone that can take serious physical punishment. An iPhone can't compare to my old battered N82 on these fronts.
For me the criticism of Nokia is from frustration. Frustration that I really want to use a Nokia for my daily device, but can not find one that holds a candle to the 3GS.
Now, yes, I like or ever love 😊, the iPhone at the moment, but why should I shut up about anything? I can never understand the "shut up" argument in a public forum to be honest, if we all shut up, there would be no forum.
Now, as far as Nokia shares are concerned, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about....sorry, I have no shares for Nokia, Apple, indeed no shares of any sort.
As for iPhone being niche, are you serious? That is just a wind up surely? Very low penetration?
Multitasking, Decent Camera and GPS, is that it now, is that all you can throw at iPhone these days?
Stable huh? Sorry mate, but the N97 mini I have here, rated as a goody in the S60 world I think, has reset without warning twice in 48hrs, the 3GS simply never has. At all.
Kev
kevwright wrote:
Nope, it was Anssi Vanjoki, Nokia's chief strategist. And he said it just a few days ago LOL.
He is not a "chief strategist", but the Executive Vice President in charge of Nokia's "Markets" organization, which is the organization in charge of selling and marketing Nokias products and services.
However, see also:
http://www.google.com/#hl=fi&q="copy+with+pride"+%2Bvanjoki