Nokia flagship stores update

Time to abandon that sinking ship...

What an amazingly un-original first reply! Makes financial sense to close the shops, it doesn't mean Nokia is going belly up.

UKJeeper +1

It never fails to amaze me how passionate the "Nokia bashers" are. Seriously guys, get a life.

What does it matter to you whether Nokia, or any of company for that matter, succeed or fail (unless you are a shareholder of course). Its just a phone company. If it stops making phones you like, buy a different one. Simples.

You lot remind me of the rubber neckers at a motorway crash. Just move on ...

PaulyLaw wrote:UKJeeper +1
What does it matter to you whether Nokia, or any of company for that matter, succeed or fail (unless you are a shareholder of course). Its just a phone company. If it stops making phones you like, buy a different one. Simples.
.

I think this site is fore people who do care about Nokia/Symbian. If you don't, why do you post here?

I have been Psion 5 user many years ago, then Symbian user on many Nokia phones (E60, E90, N82, 5800 etc). I know the system very well, use almost all of it's features and accumulated a lot of paid apps. I am very disappointed by 5800/Symbian touch.

So yes, I do care. I am concerned, that by making bad decision they are destroying the Nokia brand and my favourite mobile OS (no progress last 2-3 years).

So it makes financial sense to close the stores now? Did it make financial sense to open them not so long ago? 😊

Nokia abandoning the 'high end'?

Is this - and the news about only a few new devices for 2010 - a sign that they are stepping away from the high end smartphone market? It might make sense given the state of the global economy, although I think that the more expensive (>�400) phones are generally the most profitable per unit.

Doesn't send out good signals though, these shops weren't there to shift units, they were there to build the brand.

Tell me, exactly what is so 'disappointing' the 5800? Show me another device that does as much for as little cost. Best value for money out there.

bdonegan wrote:Tell me, exactly what is so 'disappointing' the 5800? Show me another device that does as much for as little cost. Best value for money out there.

This is exactly my problem - they care about what it can do, but they have neglected the "how" part.
So, the UI is terrible - double taps, lists that do not use the whole screen and need unnecessary scrolling, many inconsistencies.
Nokia's own apps have problems - Nokia wireless keyboard driver works for me for a few minutes then hangs. Nokia Internet Radio not working, Sports Trakcker needs be downloaded form somewhere else (Nokia official for touch is not there).
The phone is slow (as is the N97 including mini). Very unstable for me (on all firmware versions) - needs reset every two days because GPS or bluetooth doesn't work any more or the main menu doesn't show etc. On old firmware it could just hang requiring battery removal. Almost like Windows Mobile 😊

As for the device - my old N82 can do more, than 5800/N97 - better photos (xenon flash), all software works, GPS is more precise, OS is much more stable, accessories like Nokia wireless keyboard work. The screen is small and low res, but still, it can do more.

Though interesting from a trivia point of view, the fact that Nokia are closing a few stores is irelevant in my opinion, mainly because the number of products you sell or mindshare you have is not linked to the number of stores you have.

it's just logical, you close shops on those areas you do not sell much. nokia, welcome to far east asia where your phones are appreciated!

It's just business. If the store doesn't generate enough income then you close it.
As for a flagship store at a prestegious location it might not even be sales numbers, but it might just be that not enough people walk in and therefore doesn't generate enough buzz.

If I remember correctly we just came out of a financial crisis (or maybe we are still in it). So a good moment for any company to overthink if it is still a good idea to keep wasting money on these kind of things.

Unregistered wrote: it might just be that not enough people walk in and therefore doesn't generate enough buzz.

I have an alternative theory - it did create buzz, but negative 😊 Those flagship stores were an embarrassment for Nokia. In the age of iPhone and Android the best they could present was the "flagship" N96 and then N97 on old firmware (without kinetic scrolling).

These stores were not about sales per se, particularly not in the US, but they were about generating buzz and mind share. In that regard, their closing says a lot about Nokia's mind share right now. In the US, the iPhone, Android, and RIM have nearly all the mind share, and 3+ years of the flagships' presence haven't done anything to change that. I think the concept could have worked, but not by itself. Nokia needed to do more advertising in the US (TV, perhaps sponsorships of college football bowl games, newspaper/magazine), and should have gone after a weaker carrier like T-Mobile rather than try to tackle AT&T, which Apple and RIM have cornered. Now T-Mobile has picked up some buzz with Android, so perhaps even that isn't possible anymore. If we think back to 2007, the N95 was at the top of the world and was even getting some positive press from US reviewers (the Chicago Tribune being one of them, just down the block from Nokia's flagship store on Michigan Avenue). But at $700 it wasn't going to fly, and wasn't going to get people into the stores. The E51 had a better shot, but it was often lost within a sea of "cheap" phones scattered throughout the stores.

Unregistered wrote:This is exactly my problem - they care about what it can do, but they have neglected the "how" part.
So, the UI is terrible - double taps, lists that do not use the whole screen and need unnecessary scrolling, many inconsistencies.
Nokia's own apps have problems - Nokia wireless keyboard driver works for me for a few minutes then hangs. Nokia Internet Radio not working, Sports Trakcker needs be downloaded form somewhere else (Nokia official for touch is not there).
The phone is slow (as is the N97 including mini). Very unstable for me (on all firmware versions) - needs reset every two days because GPS or bluetooth doesn't work any more or the main menu doesn't show etc. On old firmware it could just hang requiring battery removal. Almost like Windows Mobile 😊

As for the device - my old N82 can do more, than 5800/N97 - better photos (xenon flash), all software works, GPS is more precise, OS is much more stable, accessories like Nokia wireless keyboard work. The screen is small and low res, but still, it can do more.

I agree the UI is not good, but there are a few neat things like the xPress music button and the way you can tap the date/profile line to access the calendar from the home screen. I have mine configured with 4 app shortcuts and that's all I need to get access directly to the most frequently used functions. The official story on sports tracker is that it's now a seperate company, so Nokia don't have a remit to distribute it on their phones. You may be right about Internet Radio and the wireless keyboard. I don't use either of these though.

In my experience it hasn't needed to be reset 'every few days' and as for being slow, compared to what? I also have an N982, so can follow you on this game, and yes it's a great phone, very stable (more mature S60 version). But whereas I can run Spotify and sportstracker at the same time on my 5800 (and browse the web, use Gravity, etc, etc) the N82 starts crawling if I run Spotify.

Anyway, you failed to take into account my crucial point "as much for as little cost". A new N82 still costs almost �100 more than a new 5800. So there

Unregistered wrote:This is exactly my problem - they care about what it can do, but they have neglected the "how" part.
So, the UI is terrible - double taps, lists that do not use the whole screen and need unnecessary scrolling, many inconsistencies.
Nokia's own apps have problems - Nokia wireless keyboard driver works for me for a few minutes then hangs. Nokia Internet Radio not working, Sports Trakcker needs be downloaded form somewhere else (Nokia official for touch is not there).
The phone is slow (as is the N97 including mini). Very unstable for me (on all firmware versions) - needs reset every two days because GPS or bluetooth doesn't work any more or the main menu doesn't show etc. On old firmware it could just hang requiring battery removal. Almost like Windows Mobile 😊

My experience with the 5800 is entirely contrary to your description. I decided to replace it because I felt like a change but there isn't a phone out there that can compete with it.

Unregistered wrote:My experience with the 5800 is entirely contrary to your description. I decided to replace it because I felt like a change but there isn't a phone out there that can compete with it.

I really tend to hate to say things like this, but you're basically wrong.

Whilst you may like the UI, there is no way that it is consistent. Its a very good example of bad UI design, whereas the previous Symbian incarnations were just an example of a relatively dull, but utterly competent UI.

Nokia are definitely not dropping out of the high end market though. The writing for their reworking of the product placement has been on the cards for years.

The Maemo team were rumoured to be working on a device with a SIM card slot several years ago, and they've long since wanted to drop S40 in favour of S60.

So the high end will be primarily Maemo with maybe one or two S60 devices getting close down to spec.

S60 is now covering a fairly wide range (�130-500), with the 5530, 5800, X6 and N97/Mini all having the same core CPU/Memory/screen resolution, with differences in storage and ancilliaries. Not too many years ago S60 would never have been attempted at the lower end.

clonmult wrote:I really tend to hate to say things like this, but you're basically wrong.

Whilst you may like the UI, there is no way that it is consistent. Its a very good example of bad UI design, whereas the previous Symbian incarnations were just an example of a relatively dull, but utterly competent UI.

I'm not wrong. Unless you can show me the phone that can replace my 5800 I am absolutely right. I would buy it instantly.

The UI is not the phone and is well down the list of what is important to me about a phone. After some months of use everything is easily and instantly achievable anyway - and it often works better than other phones. You may well have taken (as I have) a HCI module for your degree. If so then you might have met the die-hard Unix command line user who can 9 times out of 10 achieve more that the X based UI user in less time.

clonmult wrote:I really tend to hate to say things like this, but you're basically wrong.

Whilst you may like the UI, there is no way that it is consistent. Its a very good example of bad UI design, whereas the previous Symbian incarnations were just an example of a relatively dull, but utterly competent UI.

Nokia are definitely not dropping out of the high end market though. The writing for their reworking of the product placement has been on the cards for years.

The Maemo team were rumoured to be working on a device with a SIM card slot several years ago, and they've long since wanted to drop S40 in favour of S60.

So the high end will be primarily Maemo with maybe one or two S60 devices getting close down to spec.

S60 is now covering a fairly wide range (�130-500), with the 5530, 5800, X6 and N97/Mini all having the same core CPU/Memory/screen resolution, with differences in storage and ancilliaries. Not too many years ago S60 would never have been attempted at the lower end.

Not too many years ago the lower end was the only choice.

I have just read on ArsTechnica that you actually could NOT buy anything in those stores (US at least) even if you wanted to. Those were in fact showrooms, not stores.
http://arst.ch/axf

What a dumb idea! At least they have most certainly achieved their desired target of zero sales 😊

I'll comment in more detail later (trying to nail down the story beyond its closing - my thoughts)...

Clearly some reaction to this is going to be negative. But as some have already said it is a business decision. You can argue it represents a failure of the concept retail stores strategy (I think so to an extent), but I wouldn't translate this in to a general Nokia failure, or even a failure of sales strategy. As also said - put it into perspective - this is 3 stores. Nokia still has a logistics / reatail chain / channel that most business would love to have.

Interesting discussion about whether Nokia should have just absorbed in as a loss leader, but that dubious when we don't know the RoI. Presumably they'll put the millions in running costs somewhere else (maybe invest into better online stores?)... or having concept pods in more regular stores?

These were full regular stores, i bought a few phones from the new work store. They mere not just for showcase only.

Anyway the reason these closings are a big deal is because the usa only has 2 nokia stores in the entire country, chicago and new york. Its not like nokia is closing 2 of their 6 stores or something. Nokia is closing their only 2 stores in north america. These stores were more than just revenue earners, this was their whole image, a place where you can actually hold a phone in your hand before purchasing it. I always visited the new york store when i flew to the east coast from cali. These store closings look much worse than people think. Its very bad.

I have never bought anything from a Nokia store or direct from Nokia online because Nokia products are ALWAYS found cheaper elsewhere.

RogerPodacter wrote:These were full regular stores, i bought a few phones from the new work store. They mere not just for showcase only.

Anyway the reason these closings are a big deal is because the usa only has 2 nokia stores in the entire country, chicago and new york. Its not like nokia is closing 2 of their 6 stores or something. Nokia is closing their only 2 stores in north america. These stores were more than just revenue earners, this was their whole image, a place where you can actually hold a phone in your hand before purchasing it. I always visited the new york store when i flew to the east coast from cali. These store closings look much worse than people think. Its very bad.

2 Nokia stores is never going to even scratch the surface the USA market. Even in Manhattan and Chicago. New people running the show at Nokia, new ideas.

Unregistered wrote:2 Nokia stores is never going to even scratch the surface the USA market. Even in Manhattan and Chicago. New people running the show at Nokia, new ideas.

2 stores work better than 0 stores, though. If Nokia has finally reached through to T-Mobile and they will indeed carry the N900 and will subsidize it with their Expect More plans, then closing the flagships can be seen as a change in strategy. Otherwise, it is purely a retrenching. Now that T-Mobile has released its Expect More Plus plans, that don't subsidize phones but cost $10/less per month, unlocked phones finally make more sense for the average user who is also capable of some simple math. Until now, buying an unlocked phone was about features, and not about finances (since you might as well get a "free" or discounted phone if you are stuck with the same price and a 2-year contract anyway).

Let's get one thing straight.

These stores were not about making money from retail. Does anyone believe Nokia thought they could crack the US market with a couple of stores, or the UK with one?

They were 99.9% about building the brand image, and competing head to head with the likes of Apple in the 'cool' stakes. Nokia needed somewhere to have glitzy launches and attract attention - the fact they are closing these down is a sign that Nokia are leaving the battle with their tail between their legs. They are retreating to lick their wounds and focus on the middle ground.

Maybe there is some sense in that strategy, as what they have now isn't able to compete toe-to-toe with many of the other leading smartphones. Maemo/N900 is interesting but not ready for prime-time... yet. However, building reputation and a brand isn't something you do in an afternoon and by closing 3 stores like this, one can only conclude that Nokia don't think they will be ready to return to the top table for quite some time, if at all.

It that, or they are genuinely in financial trouble.

Unregistered wrote:I'm not wrong. Unless you can show me the phone that can replace my 5800 I am absolutely right. I would buy it instantly.

The UI is not the phone and is well down the list of what is important to me about a phone. After some months of use everything is easily and instantly achievable anyway - and it often works better than other phones. You may well have taken (as I have) a HCI module for your degree. If so then you might have met the die-hard Unix command line user who can 9 times out of 10 achieve more that the X based UI user in less time.

I did HCI on my degree back in 88-91, and its something thats always been of interest to me.

I do agree that there is more to the device than just the UI itself, but that is a critical part of the experience. I handed my 5800 over to my stepson, as I really didn't like the UI changes. Every time I tried to do something the UI design was jumping out at me screaming "I've been put together randomly without any real thought". On the flipside the stepson apparently loves the phone.

Personally I'm finding the N85 a more friendly device overall. Consistent UI experience, similar functionality, just as good for music, definitely a much better camera.

Nokias vision over the last few years has been chronically inconsistent though. Whilst there's been the long held view that S60 would be working its way "downmarket" to replace S40, with Maemo taking the high end, they still don't have any true halo models in the range for people to aspire to (Vertu doesn't count). And the overall designs of their Symbian products are generally functional and good on productivity/functionality, the fact that the designs aren't "wow, gorgeous" is the one area that Nokia seriously needs to work on. It looks like the X6 is the first step in the right direction, here's hoping for more.

Its this apparent lack of vision that is at least part of the reason behind the closure of these stores - they're gorgeous places, but the products that they've been trying to promote just don't have the same level of elegance.

Apple are one of the few companies that have got this right across the board - darned near every product looks good, and tends to have a well thought out user experience. Whilst techies and geeks may knock some of the functionality, thats not necessarily what the major of the public actually want.

It strikes me that the problem with Nokia is that they are too complacent. They need to get out there and be aggressive about what they do and sell. Take the 5800 look at what it does for the price. I manage my life with the diary all synced with Ovi. It as become my main sat nav, and I make use of the bluetooth facility. I have never had it hang or required a re set. The music player is great as is BBC Iplayer. All of this for half the price of a Iphone. I had a friend come to visit this week with his brand new Iphone 3GS, he was shocked by the better sound quality and camera on my 5800. The down side is Nokia customer support poor, my phone is still stuck on firmware v21, at least I managed to get Ovi maps 3 on, e mails to Nokia go unanswered. Nokia should not look to flagship stores but get out there and tell people what phones like the 5800 can do. They remind me of Asko, some of you may have heard of them, they are a Swedish washing machine maker. They made upmarket machines of very high quality and cheaper than the market leader the German Miele. However their marketing was poor and customer service hit and miss. They got into financial problems, pulled out of the UK market and ended up getting taken over my a large Italian maker of cheap machines. Wake up Nokia.

Steve Litchfield wrote: "I agree that the flagship stores were about more than just making a profit."

As far as I know, they weren't about making profit at all until the beginning of this year, when Nokia changed its retail strategy.

For example, when Nokia Flagship Store opened in Helsinki, they said openly to journalists it's about marketing and promoting, not about selling phones. You could see in prices of the phones. They were usually the most expensive ones ever.

According to some reports (for example Ars Technica), you couldn't even buy anything in the U.S. Flagship Stores, even if you wanted. So they were supposedly only marketing channels.

As Nokia is doing quite badly in the U.S., I really don't understand how they can do anything that makes them less visible there. A strange move, but maybe we'll here more news about this that would bring some sense into this.

I have a problem with my new N97 Mini.
After the hard resset i am not able to make any video call using my Phone.
Could any body has the same problem and how to solve it.
I am using the latest Software V10.0.020.

Thanks

I think you need to see Nokia a bit like Microsoft in this case. If Microsoft opened a store, most people would think, so what? as MS is not a "cool" brand like Apple, and does not engender a loyal (some would say fanatical) following in the same way Apple does.

Unless Nokia were going to open several stores in all major US cities, having a couple of stores was never going to make any real difference; them closing is a pity, but is probably totally irrelevant in the greater scheme of things...