GPS, like many modern technologies, is often taken for granted. Yet it's quite a bit more fragile, in terms of operation, than you might think. Here are some facts and tips that may help your own smartphone GPS experience.
Read on in the full article.
Steve, when you say "PAYG users don't worry about the data cost it's only a few kb" you would do well to consider how some PAYG schemes work. In some cases, once you use any kind of data service you ae hit for the full cost of data use to whatever limit they give.
Anyway, my answer to all of the above is to dump the phone GPS and just use a proper dedicated satnav unit. I'll never go back except in emergencies.
[comment deleted, see below for more accurate info!]
And once again Singapore remains an oddity in that I can obtain 0 GPS lock with AGPS after 10minutes at where I live, and if I just travelled ~8km into the city, I get near instant lock (~5 sec at cold boot) of 9 GPSes.
Here we go. Since i've Omnia HD, even cold start is no more then 10 sec, a warm one is always instant, regardless of area (mountains, town etc.).
I have recently discovered that Virgin Mobile charges for its data as described by "unregistered @ 8:23". I got my mum a 5800 on contract from them. It's her only phone so needed plenty of minutes and they do have some great deals. However, there data is charged at 30p/day irrespective of the amount you use (capped to 25MB/day).
Now of course that's not going to break the bank (and the rest of the tariff really suits her needs) but the extra �5-6 on the first few bills was a bit of shock to us both - especially as she was only using it to get an aGPS link.
Gav
PS - just to second Steve's recommendation of Maps Booster. I've got it on my N97 and it works flawlessly. Best �3 I've spent at the Ovi Store
daos wrote:Here we go. Since i've Omnia HD, even cold start is no more then 10 sec, a warm one is always instant, regardless of area (mountains, town etc.).
Out of curiosity, do you know if the Omnia HD includes the Skyhook/Map Booster WiFi based system out of the box? Or did Samsung just put a better GPS aerial in there? 😊
Re: Virgin data - I stand corrected. Crazy system though. ***See below for more on this****
re: i8910 HD, no, it simply has a great GPS antenna. But then you'd hope so - the thing is large enough 8-)
I believe that Vodafone also do this if you don't have an internet bundle on a typical contract - you pay something like 50p when you use *any* data and that covers you up to 200MB or so but only for that day. After midnight you pay again. I'm not sure about PAYG though.
Yep. T-Mobile as well. Use 1 byte of data and pay the whole quid for the day. If you have the 5 day deal (�2.50) it's the whole �2.50.
I think it happens more often than our Guru thinks.
OK, I stand corrected on the data front. Even my beloved Vodafone pay as you go seems to have changed the way it charges data as well. It used to be per kilobyte up to the min per day - now it seems to be 50p per day for any use as well!!!
8-(((
This info changes quite a lot, IMHO - maybe the networks are trying to force us towards contracts. And yes, this info does rather make using Assisted GPS for occasional fixes relatively expensive. Hmmm...
http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/payg-price/?WT.mc_id=price
Summary of changes
From 26th September we're making the cost of browsing the whole Internet on your phone with web'n'walk simpler. Rather than pay for the amount you download until you spend �1, there will be a simple daily fee of �1 which gives you 24 hours unlimited browsing.
"simpler" = making more money from us 8-(
I'm appalled at the way Vodafone changed the way they billed data to my payg account *without telling me*. Must have been in the very small print etc. And I was wondering why my credit had been going down so fast..... Gah.
i think nokia just need to update their chipsets
when you compare the samsung i8910 to any of the latest nokia in terms of gps capabillities the samsung walks all over them
its a shame as gps can be really good in phones yet we are allways making excuses saying its probably the clouds or iam holding it at the wrong angle , well iam sorry with a sensitive gps chip them things shouldnt come into play
i just loaded garmin on my i8910 and instantly indoors all the bars went green
even on the 1st start with agps on it took around 10-25 seconds to get lock
it outperforms any dedicated sat nav ive used as it has agps and the chip is just as sensitive as any tomtom etc
iam sitting here now on the ground floor in my sitting room surrounded by daouble glazing and double brick walls with another floor above me and then a roof and loft with insualtion and iam getting a 12m-17m accuarcy range which is pretty dam good
i hope nokia follow samsungs suit and start using better gps chipsets , i think the last nokia for me to have amazing gps quality was the n96 it seems to have gone backwards from there
In my experience using GPS units, phones or dedicated models, the best and fastest way to get a lock is to turn on the unit and sit there a minute. It is harder to get a lock while moving.
Thanks, I meant to mention that in the main article, but forgot. Now added 8-)
slitchfield wrote:Re: i8910 HD, no, it simply has a great GPS antenna. But then you'd hope so - the thing is large enough 8-)
Eh? GPS+ is just Assisted GPS by another name. Grabs data once a week rather than every time, but essentially the same thing 8-)
You know, if only Samsung could sort the DRM so that I could download BBC iPlayer programmes, I'd be back on the i8910 HD and probably loving it about now....
i have never waited more than 1 minute to get a lock, and that includes turining on my device for the first time when brand new or for the first time in a new country. if i dont have a lock within 30secs i will turn off the program, wait a few seconds, then restart the gps app. it will usually get a lock fairly quickly the second time. the odd time i will start google maps first as it usually gets a lock very fast, then shut it down and turn on ovi maps or garmin. now in saying this i should also point out that i usually dont a problem getting a signal lock fairly quickly the first time.
i do use agps and i have a data plan and i am a firm believer that people that use these kinds of phones without data plans should not complain when things dont go right for them as these devices are built to be used with a data plan.
lol dont tell me BBC iPlayer is your main criteria for a phone now. god i wish you lived in another country as it would eliminate BBC iPlayer bias that most of us dont have. blame bbc for a change.
on gps front gps+ downloading once a week on prepaid or everytime like nokia makes a lot of difference if provider chooses to charge daytime max. + plus faster locks for the whole week in comparison to having to connect, then download, then triangulate.
gdigenis wrote:i do use agps and i have a data plan and i am a firm believer that people that use these kinds of phones without data plans should not complain when things dont go right for them as these devices are built to be used with a data plan.
Utter crap. These devices are built with more than one way to access the internet. If I had a data plan I would be wasting money, but considering the WiFi access I have everywhere, I don't need the data plan. Another dickhead who believes that their little world is the only world.
"dont tell me BBC iPlayer is your main criteria for a phone now"
No, but it's a prerequisite. i.e. any phone that DOESN'T have iPlayer programme downloading (about half the current Symbian world?) is ruled out, IMHO, for a UK resident, anyway.
Effectively, it adds another huge convergence factor into the smartphone mix - TV on the go.
slitchfield wrote:Eh? GPS+ is just Assisted GPS by another name. Grabs data once a week rather than every time, but essentially the same thing 8-)
Which smartphones (if any) already support WAAS and/or EGNOS? While it wouldn't do much for the initial lock speed, adding support for North-American and European GPS augmentation technologies would increase GPS accuracy. Standalone units like Garmin's have had WAAS/EGNOS for many years. What's the status for mobile phones?
I'm using a Nokia 6710 navigator, It initially used to take an awful long time to get a gps lock, now I have instant lock, whether stationary or in a moving vehicle. I came across this great tip and it works brilliantly, whoever i have suggested to has seen the results. What you need to do is place your phone near a window while it has gps lock and keep it on charge so the battery doesn't run down for at least 4hours. Good luck!
Very interesting topic, and one with which I've had a good bit of experience (including working with high dynamic GPS telemetry units and such, well beyond the consumer level).
What boggles the mind of someone like me (with RF and engineering background, mind you) is a comment that Nokia need more sensitive GPS chipsets!
I can only conclude that such a comment was made by someone who has not used an LD-3W, or an E71, or a 5800XM. I have a 'proper' Garmin handheld GPS unit, complete with WAAS support. Comparison? There is none. Lock times are similar if AGPS is not used, as is to be expected (as any chipset without a network connection will have to receive the almanac and ephemeris data from the sats themselves, which takes time). Once AGPS enters the mix, the Garmin is left in the Nokia devices' dust in terms of lock time.
In terms of sensitivity, the Garmin is outclassed almost indescribably by all three Nokia devices. The Nokias will all easily obtain a solid position lock in a remote part of a given basement, where the Garmin is absolutely incapable of receiving even a single satellite. In some real-world, side-by-side geocaching usage, I found that the Garmin (even with the advantage of WAAS) would lose lock totally with just a little bit of tree cover, while it was almost impossible to lose a lock with the E71. In practice, the vastly higher sensitivity of the chipset in the E71 led me to multiple caches before a much more experienced cacher with a more recent and expensive Garmin unit as well.
Yes, the newer dedicated GPS units are tending toward more sensitivity, but they still lack the network connectivity, and thus will take longer to get a lock under almost all circumstances. They also lack nearly all of the other converged features of a good smartphone, requiring multiple devices to be carried rather than one, and offering few real advantages over said smartphone.
OK, from personal experience, I have seen that the E75 is not quite as sensitive in GPS terms as the devices mentioned above, but it still easily blows away the aforementioned Garmin unit.
Which Nokia devices are being regarded as not having sensitive GPS chipsets?
is there any way to integrate or use the handheld as a gps receiver for google maps
slitchfield wrote:Eh? GPS+ is just Assisted GPS by another name. Grabs data once a week rather than every time, but essentially the same thing 8-)You know, if only Samsung could sort the DRM so that I could download BBC iPlayer programmes, I'd be back on the i8910 HD and probably loving it about now....
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdigenis
i do use agps and i have a data plan and i am a firm believer that people that use these kinds of phones without data plans should not complain when things dont go right for them as these devices are built to be used with a data plan.
Utter crap. These devices are built with more than one way to access the internet. If I had a data plan I would be wasting money, but considering the WiFi access I have everywhere, I don't need the data plan. Another dickhead who believes that their little world is the only world
wow strong argument, i guess you are right. what was i thinking? why would a data plan improve the overall experience of using a smart phone when you can check emails, surf the net, check sports scores, check the weather, upload media to ovi or flickr, download the latest allaboutsymbian podcast, use shazzam to get a songs info, use google maps to find an address or location info, download music, AND get a ful gps lock within seconds from anywhere and everywhere you are during a day over wifi? i guess you have wifi in your other pocket so you can always be connected. thanks for showing me that it is better not to have a data plan, especially when you consider how reliably all of these s60 devices connect to unkown wifi sources and that the world is blanketed in free wifi. thank you thank you thank you.
and just so you dont pat yourself on the back too long, i am being sarcastic, but i didnt want you to miss that.
1st of all you cant measure a sat nav accuarcy by how quick they get a lock or where they can get a lock
the reason your nokia phone can gte a lock in the basement and the garmin cant is because the nokia phone probbaly used agps to get a lock
2nd garmin standalone units have no way of measuring how acurate they are apart from the map display to a side turning or something simmilar with nokia phones you can go into gps data application and check the accuarcy , if you do so while sitting in your basement i can allmost bet my house that the accuarcy will go something like this -- 37m -- 69m -- 178m -- 222m -- 57m -- 145m-- 34m all within the space of around 30 seconds max , that is not acuarte , yes it is just about holding a lock that the agps has given it , but signal will drop and it will show this in the accuarcy readings
if you drive with the phone and the garmin next to each other they will probably provide very equal results allthough the map refresh data on nokia can be a bit slower due to the 434mhz processor running a phone and sat nav
3rd nokia phones with weak gps signal when tested with the gps accuarcy application under most conditions , n97 , n86 , both phones share the same gps design with the antenna near the back f the phone around the camera module , both suffer heavy interference and need fixes out of the box , i went through 4 n97s and 2 n86s before having to buy a samsung to get acurate gps , i also found the 5800 to show me off destination by about 50m when i looked at the gps data it was jumping around allthough not as much as the n97 and the n86 , the n97 mini allthough better then the n97 and n86 is very weak still and when taken indoors signal will jump around like mentioned above
i now own the omnia hd and i can get a 12m-17m lock indoors constant outdors it is so accuarte its unreal
my last decent nokias for gps was the n82 and the n96 even the n95-1 with the keypad open was better then the n97 , n86 , n97 mini , 5800
i love nokias and have ordered the n900 to try out as i like new evolving products and iam hoping the n900 gps doesnt let me down like most of the recent nokias ive tryed
i use the gps everyday in my phone and i agree my n96 was better then my garmin unit as is my omnia hd but some of nokias latest efforts leave alot to be desired in gps stakes and accuarcy of the gps chip or the results its producing via the gps data application
n0k1a wrote:Very interesting topic, and one with which I've had a good bit of experience (including working with high dynamic GPS telemetry units and such, well beyond the consumer level).What boggles the mind of someone like me (with RF and engineering background, mind you) is a comment that Nokia need more sensitive GPS chipsets!
I can only conclude that such a comment was made by someone who has not used an LD-3W, or an E71, or a 5800XM. I have a 'proper' Garmin handheld GPS unit, complete with WAAS support. Comparison? There is none. Lock times are similar if AGPS is not used, as is to be expected (as any chipset without a network connection will have to receive the almanac and ephemeris data from the sats themselves, which takes time). Once AGPS enters the mix, the Garmin is left in the Nokia devices' dust in terms of lock time.
In terms of sensitivity, the Garmin is outclassed almost indescribably by all three Nokia devices. The Nokias will all easily obtain a solid position lock in a remote part of a given basement, where the Garmin is absolutely incapable of receiving even a single satellite. In some real-world, side-by-side geocaching usage, I found that the Garmin (even with the advantage of WAAS) would lose lock totally with just a little bit of tree cover, while it was almost impossible to lose a lock with the E71. In practice, the vastly higher sensitivity of the chipset in the E71 led me to multiple caches before a much more experienced cacher with a more recent and expensive Garmin unit as well.
Yes, the newer dedicated GPS units are tending toward more sensitivity, but they still lack the network connectivity, and thus will take longer to get a lock under almost all circumstances. They also lack nearly all of the other converged features of a good smartphone, requiring multiple devices to be carried rather than one, and offering few real advantages over said smartphone.
OK, from personal experience, I have seen that the E75 is not quite as sensitive in GPS terms as the devices mentioned above, but it still easily blows away the aforementioned Garmin unit.
Which Nokia devices are being regarded as not having sensitive GPS chipsets?