Symbian^4 UI framework video demo

Honestly that doesn't look revolutionary or any type of improvement, only small changes BUT im sure they have looaddss more to reveal

Wow, so it's taken this long for Symbian to pretty much create a product....that copies every other major UI player in the Market?

Why not just copy the UI from the N900 and improve on it? At least then it'll look diff to Android etc :-/

It's fair to say there's not much to see here that you won't have already seen in the early screenshots. But these are major UI changes at a base level.

But yes there's a lot more to come (hence I was careful to couch these is terms of a framework demo). I think the comparison to the Symbian^3 demo probably shows this best.

Copy_cat - first bear in mind that UI is only a small part of the platform (just the most visible one)... second I think you could argue there's precious little true innovation. All of the current mobile UIs are vaitaions on the grids and list metaphor with the idea of a customisable homescreen added on. You can change the look etc. but they all use very similar principals. For example you could argue that the idea of a four command softkey area dates back to the Psion 5 (and beyond).

@Rafe ... you know that symbian^3 demo looks way cool and would certainly put nokia back in the race *if* it actually comes to pass as it looks in the demo

my N810 demo looked as cool ... as did my N86 ... but the reality was sadly different

i think the basic problem (as has been stated before) is that nokia are a hardware company who see hardware as a revenue stream ... software merely helps them sell more hardware ... whereas more and more people are wanting a software company to stay focused on their software that runs on the hardware they bought ... ie, update the damn things with new versions like apple and google and even microsoft do

until that happens in a reliable way i think many people have been burned a little too much with nokia to trust that they are focused and committed to their high-end high-cost devices

fakefur wrote:@Rafe ... you know that symbian^3 demo looks way cool and would certainly put nokia back in the race *if* it actually comes to pass as it looks in the demo

my N810 demo looked as cool ... as did my N86 ... but the reality was sadly different

i think the basic problem (as has been stated before) is that nokia are a hardware company who see hardware as a revenue stream ... software merely helps them sell more hardware ... whereas more and more people are wanting a software company to stay focused on their software that runs on the hardware they bought ... ie, update the damn things with new versions like apple and google and even microsoft do

until that happens in a reliable way i think many people have been burned a little too much with nokia to trust that they are focused and committed to their high-end high-cost devices

Many smartphone owners that I know don't really know they can update their firmware/OS, nor do they care much when I tell them. Iphone owners have to do it because iTunes forces them too, but most people are not really bothered as long as their handset does what they want and they get their standard 12 month upgrade.

See also this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efFn31b6Zn4

From Capital Market Day, December 2009. Complete presentation(as well as other interesting stuff on Nokia�s projects) can be found at cmd.nokia.com. One thing people may miss is the interaction between services/solutions and user interface in Nokia�s forthcoming devices, to create what for example Niklas Savander calls a "magical experience". It�s not all about the UI!

@unregistered ... saying that most people don't upgrade their phones is:

1. completely irrelevant to the point being made
2. not true about the high-end high-cost buyers

saying they are happy if it works may be true *if it works* which clearly most of the recent nokia high-end launches don't very well ... therefore upgrading is important

if you lose the trust of the early adopters who evangelize these kinds of devices you lose the mindshare of developers and then you aren't one of the "cool" platforms and so you lose market share ... and the cycle continues ... just ask palm and microsoft both of whom are trying to reinvent their mobile offerings and recapture the hearts of developers and early adopters

nokia seem content to live at the middle to bottom end of the market and if that works for them (remember they are a *hardware* company first) then great for them ... just don't keep make excuses for a company that has lost it's way somewhat ... it gets tedious

fakefur wrote:@unregistered ... saying that most people don't upgrade their phones is:

1. completely irrelevant to the point being made
2. not true about the high-end high-cost buyers

saying they are happy if it works may be true *if it works* which clearly most of the recent nokia high-end launches don't very well ... therefore upgrading is important

if you lose the trust of the early adopters who evangelize these kinds of devices you lose the mindshare of developers and then you aren't one of the "cool" platforms and so you lose market share ... and the cycle continues ... just ask palm and microsoft both of whom are trying to reinvent their mobile offerings and recapture the hearts of developers and early adopters

nokia seem content to live at the middle to bottom end of the market and if that works for them (remember they are a *hardware* company first) then great for them ... just don't keep make excuses for a company that has lost it's way somewhat ... it gets tedious

1. I didn't say "most people" I said "most people I know".
2. It's not irrelevant because:

Many people who frequent forums like this seem to believe that everybody is a phone geek who has nothing better to do with their life than worry about phone OS and upgrades. In fact there are many people who purchase a phone and get it to do certain things that they want and don't really try to push it further. These are not the "early adopters" these are the people who get their phone on their contract upgrade for free every 12 months and couldn't give a sh!t how much space is left on the C: drive after this or that beta is loaded.

I don't make excuses for any phone, I couldn't care less whether Nokia were gone tomorrow there are plenty of other phones to buy.

What's really tedious is people who are so sure that they know best for everybody and preach it at every opportunity. The world is not full of sad phone geeks. Most of the money is going to come in from normal humans.

Riffing on your guys' discussion, and taking up the fact that Nokia is a hardware company *first*, software/services are second, I'd be intrigued to see what a Windows Phone or Android build would look like running on an N97 or Mini with N900 hardware internals.

I mean, since they cut Symbian loose to survive as a foundation, theoretically they shouldn't really be tied down to any one OS. Their model should be more like Samsung's, as a phone/devices OEM.

@unregistered ... i will bite and respond again

saying "most people" is always a sign of complete crap and a generalization to deflect a point without answering it so i have no time for any response based upon "a guy down the pub told me..."

i agree that a lot of people could care less if a phone can be upgraded as long as it does what they want it to do BUT when (for example) the lack of space on the c drive causes your phone to crash and die during a call then i think it DOES matter

so sorry if that makes me a "sad loser phone geek" in your book but paying my hard earned money to a company for a product only to discover that it isn't fit for the purpose it was advertised / sold DOES matter to ordinary people ... if you doubt that look at the congressional investigation into toyaota cars not doing what they were supposed to

nokia does good hardware ... no questions there ... but they are not and show no signs of becoming an even competent software company ... thats my problem with them and their products

basically i expect more for my $500+

if you don't then lucky you to be so wealthy to be able to throw that much away without a problem

fakefur wrote:@unregistered ... i will bite and respond again

saying "most people" is always a sign of complete crap and a generalization to deflect a point without answering it so i have no time for any response based upon "a guy down the pub told me..."

Is it your job to make up these rules?

fakefur wrote:
i agree that a lot of people could care less if a phone can be upgraded as long as it does what they want it to do BUT when (for example) the lack of space on the c drive causes your phone to crash and die during a call then i think it DOES matter

But that doesn't happen.
It happened to the iPhone after the 3G came out (not a C: drive issue obviously) it had awful problems dropping calls. But Apple sorted that out with an update, just like Nokia do. Remember the OTA updates?

QUOTE=fakefur;459242]
so sorry if that makes me a "sad loser phone geek" in your book but paying my hard earned money to a company for a product only to discover that it isn't fit for the purpose it was advertised / sold DOES matter to ordinary people ...

basically i expect more for my $500+
[/QUOTE]

Yeah me too. That's why I wouldn't have bought a phone that wasn't fit for the purpose.

QUOTE=fakefur;459242]
nokia does good hardware ... no questions there ... but they are not and show no signs of becoming an even competent software company ... thats my problem with them and their products

[/QUOTE]

Navteq are pretty good though. Oh wait....