Nokia Nuron - 5230 for T-Mobile USA

Well that seems like a good start. Give people an easy and cheap way into the world of Ovi. The store and the maps inclusion means that, at least at this price point T-Mobile USA seem to have woken up to the fact that they are good things to have on the phone!

But is T-Mobile's 3G coverage any good? Do they suffer from the same problems that blight AT&T's offering?

This is an excellent move from Nokia, well done. Consumers in the US will increasingly realise that the only reason they are buying iPhones or Androids are for hype and fashion alone - and that they are paying WAY more for that hype and fashion. Of course, people will continue to do so.

But no longer will US consumers be unaware of Nokia's smartphone offerings, or able to claim that Android or iPhone are superior in some way (apart from a fractionally more responsive UI). Indeed this will show that Symbian is a considerably superior mobile OS to it's competitors in many ways. Ovi Store inclusion answers the needs of those seeking apps, and the complaints of developers that they don't have a good route to market (1.5 million downloads a day now, that's well over half a billion a year if growth remained flat!). Ovi Maps Nav simply makes Google Maps Nav look like something of a joke, and blows away all other solutions.

And this isn't even a Symbian^3 handset. When they are released in the States, iPhone and Android are going to get hammered big time, no matter what slight improvements they come out with over the year...

Does "Nuron" rhyme with "Moron" ?
A Conversation with the Nokia design team... (a few months ago in Espo)
Designers: "Hey guys I got this really great idea for a phone for T Mobile in the USA!"
Marketing: "Oh great, tell us about it."
Designers: "Ok first , you take a Nokia 5800, and you make it grey."
Marketing: "Yeah, and?"
Designers: "No , that's it. you make it grey....."

Designers: "Oh and the fact that the buttons on the bottom are colored the same as an Italian flag should appeal to all the mafia types that hang out in New Jersey - Bada Bing!"

End of design meeting.

I'm now 2 weeks into ownership of the 5230, and overall its possibly the best phone/media device I've ever owned. Previously had N95, N85, video iPod, iPod Touch.

Made the first use of the satnav in anger this morning, and it was absolutely perfect. Better than TomTom or Sygic on earlier Nokias, definitely better than the Navman I owned for a while. Just need a decent car cradle - I hope it'll fit in a cradle designed for the 5800.

Video playback is great (as long you code it well - eRightSofts Super does great). Sound quality is easily as good as an iPod. Browsing using Opera Mobile or Mini is excellent.

The only possible negative is that the Ovi store is a little sluggish compared to the Apple App store.

So the success of this phone in the states will not be down to the device itself - it'll be down to how well its marketed/supported over there.

- Fat guy: I hate those Fins people, they are so polite and clean, they speak funny.
- Other Fat Guy: We are never going to take their phones, they are so cheap, smart phones for under 50 bucks, are they nuts?
- Even bigger guy: They kick Russian in WWII big time, we never could
- Fat lady: I thinks they were on Germany side in WWII let all hate them
- All: Yea lets hate the Fins and never use their cheap, never failing, hard as rock phones
End of meeting
The meeting lasted 5 minutes and 4 people eat 3 boxes of sugar coated pastry

PatalumaGuy wrote:- Fat guy: I hate those Fins people, they are so polite and clean, they speak funny.
- Other Fat Guy: We are never going to take their phones, they are so cheap, smart phones for under 50 bucks, are they nuts?
- Even bigger guy: They kick Russian in WWII big time, we never could
- Fat lady: I thinks they were on Germany side in WWII let all hate them
- All: Yea lets hate the Fins and never use their cheap, never failing, hard as rock phones
End of meeting
The meeting lasted 5 minutes and 4 people eat 3 boxes of sugar coated pastry

loooooooooooooooool.....another ugly truth.

PatalumaGuy wrote:- Fat guy: I hate those Fins people, they are so polite and clean, they speak funny.
- Other Fat Guy: We are never going to take their phones, they are so cheap, smart phones for under 50 bucks, are they nuts?
- Even bigger guy: They kick Russian in WWII big time, we never could
- Fat lady: I thinks they were on Germany side in WWII let all hate them
- All: Yea lets hate the Fins and never use their cheap, never failing, hard as rock phones
End of meeting
The meeting lasted 5 minutes and 4 people eat 3 boxes of sugar coated pastry

And the irony would be:

Android -> Linux -> Linus Torvalds -> Suomi !!

So, Finland is actually responsible for the Android OS!

It's a good start, I guess....but T-Mobile? Really? They have pretty spotty coverage outside of major cities in the U.S. (i.e. the suburbs), and that's putting it kindly.

I would say that their main problem in the U.S., vs. iPhone or Android, will be the lack of basic applications/useability UI for smart phones. Some examples include: lack of integration of local transit (MTA and subway info) with Ovi Maps, in comparison with Google Navigation, and here's a crucial one---a lack of threaded conversations view in their messaging application.

This phone is likely to be picked up by the younger set, and the non-conversation view of messaging will turn many of the text-addicted off. Nokia along with Symbian needs to provide a fix for this, or else, integrate Free iSMS into the phones, out of the box. Most won't be familiar enough with S60v5 to go hunting around in forums for this app on their own.

Unregistered wrote:It's a good start, I guess....but T-Mobile? Really? They have pretty spotty coverage outside of major cities in the U.S. (i.e. the suburbs), and that's putting it kindly.

I would say that their main problem in the U.S., vs. iPhone or Android, will be the lack of basic applications/useability UI for smart phones. Some examples include: lack of integration of local transit (MTA and subway info) with Ovi Maps, in comparison with Google Navigation, and here's a crucial one---a lack of threaded conversations view in their messaging application.

This phone is likely to be picked up by the younger set, and the non-conversation view of messaging will turn many of the text-addicted off. Nokia along with Symbian needs to provide a fix for this, or else, integrate Free iSMS into the phones, out of the box. Most won't be familiar enough with S60v5 to go hunting around in forums for this app on their own.

Subway mapping is an interesting idea, and whilst its a nice idea I'm not sure how a satnav can actually work underground. It rarely seems to work inside buildings, so underground it seems highly unlikely to operate. Unless you are meaning being able to give basic directions, such as "get on at this underground station, take route <a> for however many stops".

Threaded conversations were available via the Nokia Conversations on the previous OS releases. For some reason its not yet available on S60v5.

You can view messages in a threaded form against contacts listed on the homescreen contacts bar, but that isn't quite the same.

The range of apps available on Ovi for the 5230 is quite surprising. Weather, note taking, drawing, silly little things (spirit level, seismograph, daily dilbert), and some quite nice games (connect 4, bejewelled twist, ovi maps racing, blockGo, Resco Bubbles, Skyforce reloaded, raging thunder, waveblazer, tower blox).

clonmult wrote:Subway mapping is an interesting idea, and whilst its a nice idea I'm not sure how a satnav can actually work underground. It rarely seems to work inside buildings, so underground it seems highly unlikely to operate. Unless you are meaning being able to give basic directions, such as "get on at this underground station, take route <a> for however many stops".

Threaded conversations were available via the Nokia Conversations on the previous OS releases. For some reason its not yet available on S60v5.

You can view messages in a threaded form against contacts listed on the homescreen contacts bar, but that isn't quite the same.

The range of apps available on Ovi for the 5230 is quite surprising. Weather, note taking, drawing, silly little things (spirit level, seismograph, daily dilbert), and some quite nice games (connect 4, bejewelled twist, ovi maps racing, blockGo, Resco Bubbles, Skyforce reloaded, raging thunder, waveblazer, tower blox).

I hear you, but see here's the thing: this is a Nokia smart phone with a flat T-Mobile data plan very, very likely attached. Somebody buying into a smart phone is not going to be moved by basic games, weather, spirit level, etc, etc.

They want value-added honest to goodness *applications*.

Unless of course Nokia and T-Mobile basically push this phone to the Sidekick/teenage market...

Unregistered wrote:I hear you, but see here's the thing: this is a Nokia smart phone with a flat T-Mobile data plan very, very likely attached. Somebody buying into a smart phone is not going to be moved by basic games, weather, spirit level, etc, etc.

They want value-added honest to goodness *applications*.

Unless of course Nokia and T-Mobile basically push this phone to the Sidekick/teenage market...

What *applications* are you talking about? I've never seen fart piano on Symbian, so the iPhone will obviously have a huge advantage there.

And the 5230 does have threaded conversations for texting. If you set up your contacts on the home screen, all text messages associated with a contact are grouped together in the screen that pops up when you touch the contact icon. Not as good as speech bubbles but it is threaded.

Unregistered wrote:What *applications* are you talking about? I've never seen fart piano on Symbian, so the iPhone will obviously have a huge advantage there.

And the 5230 does have threaded conversations for texting. If you set up your contacts on the home screen, all text messages associated with a contact are grouped together in the screen that pops up when you touch the contact icon. Not as good as speech bubbles but it is threaded.

That is the closest that the 5230 has to threaded messaging, but it isn't the full thing, and its not usable.

The Nokia Conversations app presented messages between you and another in a proper threaded layout, and you could reply in the same area. The threaded messaging on the 5230 doesn't work like that.

I'll echo your first comment - plenty of serious apps available for Symbian, I was just mentioning those that seem like they'll be more popular with the iPhone liking types.

The closest thing to a fart piano that I've seen is the Nokia sourced piano app. Which is truly dire. Although the step daughter did manage to get a recognisable tune out of it yesterday.

clonmult wrote:That is the closest that the 5230 has to threaded messaging, but it isn't the full thing, and its not usable.

I've been using it.

At least I though I was. But apparently it's not usable so I can't have been. I wonder what I've been doing all this time then?

I also have several good applications. But apparently but they must be a figment of my imagination too. By those that know best.

clonmult wrote: The threaded messaging on the 5230 doesn't work like that.

I know what it works like, I have one. I also stated it's not like the speech bubbles apps, but thanks for telling me anyway.

Why would any TMobile customer buy this over the Nexus One.

Keep dreaming. This phone will rot in the shelves.

Unregistered wrote:Why would any TMobile customer buy this over the Nexus One.

Keep dreaming. This phone will rot in the shelves.

Not sure of the differences in pricing stateside, but at least in the UK the two are totally different pricing and markets. Going on like-for-like pricing (ie. SIM free, no subsidy), the 5230 is a QUARTER of the price - �150 vs �600. Thats a huge pricing differential.

As for the threaded SMS - the way it works on the 5230 is *not* threaded SMS. When you go to compose a reply it opens the standard SMS editor. To be a fully accepted threaded SMS it should show the messages in a list, different indents, and when you key in a reply it should be there in the list immediately, not opening up a separate editor.

Insane Reindeer

"But is T-Mobile's 3G coverage any good? Do they suffer from the same problems that blight AT&T's offering?"

I use both an N95 and 5800XM on AT&T and have no problems. My phones both display 3G and/or 3.5G 99.9% of the time. Very rarely does it ever slip into EDGE territory.

Well, I'm one American T-Mobile customer who has decided to pass on the Nexus One but will definitely buy the Nuron on the 17th. There are a number of reasons, but suffice it to say that although Nokia phones often don't have the build-quality or slim and classy appearance of other phones, they can just do so much with a few bits of add-on software. Just check out all the specs on the Nuron. I love the UI of the iPhone, but Symbian 5th will do fine for me despite its relative lack of eye candy. Free Ovi Maps is a big selling point. Incidentally, for some reason I just don't think the Nexus One is a very nice-looking phone; it's just bland.

clonmult wrote:Not sure of the differences in pricing stateside, but at least in the UK the two are totally different pricing and markets. Going on like-for-like pricing (ie. SIM free, no subsidy), the 5230 is a QUARTER of the price - �150 vs �600. Thats a huge pricing differential.

�150? You mean �79.....

http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/mobiles/mobile-phones/NOKIA-5230/PPAY

And that's unlocked. Any sim any network and you can have it in pink. They are also free on the lowest cheapest tariff.

I don't believe the Nexus one is �600. If you purchased one from Google in the US it worked out to be about �450 all in.

http://news.nexus-one.co.uk/post/328694937/nexus-one-uk-price-details-confirmed

Clonmult, do you just make it up as you type it in?

davekolmer wrote: Nokia phones often don't have the build-quality .

Build quality? How about build quality where it counts. You can drop one of these cheapo phones from your ear to concrete, and just pick it up and continue your call. I've done it. Some people don't like the way they feel and how the plastic flexes, but I know what I want from a phone.

For iPhones that have undergone a similar event do an Ebay search "iPhone broken screen".
It's the slimness and the stiffness and the way the shock impact energy transmits through the casing to the screen.

And if you buy this phone you will get double the battery life and superior call quality and connection in fringe areas compared to phones costing 5 times the price of this one.

Nokia have always done well with the fundamentals that are normally overlooked for superficial eye candy.

on that carphone warehouse link, look at specs
Next to smartphone criteria, there is a red cross!
It has the same OS as the N97....idiots!

Might work initially but wait til you load it up with apps and info. It only has 70mb internal memory!

Unregistered wrote:Might work initially but wait til you load it up with apps and info. It only has 70mb internal memory!

Not sure that's such a big deal. The 5800 only has 81Mb. So I load apps that will on the MicroSD. I still have 30Mb free on the phone.

It's about time Nokia strikes a deal with T-Mobile. Their 3G network has a smaller geographic footprint than even AT&T, but it is all HSDPA 7.2, and they are in the middle of an HSPA+ upgrade that will eventually cover their entire 3G network. They also have a more reliable voice network and, unlike AT&T don't have the iPhone drawing attention away from their other smartphones.

Unregistered wrote:Might work initially but wait til you load it up with apps and info. It only has 70mb internal memory!

So how much is an 8GB sdhc card? $12 ? You can configure where your info is stored and where most apps install so the internal RAM never becomes a problem.

Unregistered wrote:�150? You mean �79.....

http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/mobiles/mobile-phones/NOKIA-5230/PPAY

And that's unlocked. Any sim any network and you can have it in pink. They are also free on the lowest cheapest tariff.

I don't believe the Nexus one is �600. If you purchased one from Google in the US it worked out to be about �450 all in.

http://news.nexus-one.co.uk/post/328694937/nexus-one-uk-price-details-confirmed

Clonmult, do you just make it up as you type it in?

�79 is a subsidised price, and heavily discounted by CPW.

The price I had for the Nexus One was based on what Expansys charge for them, fair enough that you can get it cheaper.

point still stands though - the 5230 is still less than a quarter of the price of a Nexus One.

Unregistered wrote:Might work initially but wait til you load it up with apps and info. It only has 70mb internal memory!

Now, lets see what I've got installed on mine ...

23 apps, 16 games. Maps for the UK and Florida. About 700 mp3s, a few hundred pictures, a couple of episodes of 24 and the Ironman 2 trailer.

Reckon I'll be needing a 16gig card soon. The 8gig can be used as a backup for my HD camera.

It is not ram but the flash disk. I think you get a 2gb card with the phone

clonmult wrote:�79 is a subsidised price, and heavily discounted by CPW.

The price I had for the Nexus One was based on what Expansys charge for them, fair enough that you can get it cheaper.

point still stands though - the 5230 is still less than a quarter of the price of a Nexus One.

It may be subsidised but there is no obligation or lock in to any network. The phone is yours to do with as you please.

Yes, the point stands.