After resisting the persistent trend of touch screen smartphones, David Gilson reports on his experience of living with some S60 5th Edition touch screen phones, namely the Nokia 5230 and N97. Could it be that, like me, he finds the biggest strength of touch screens isn't that they respond to touch?
Read on in the full article.
I disagree: the touch screen phone thing is not a fad or gimmick. It's here to stay.
You hit on the reason it is here to stay---the large screen, and the merging of phones, multi media players and the PDA.
Here in the U.S., a couple of the major wireless carriers, Verizon and AT&T, will start moving to a 4G, LTE network next year with near broadband data speeds. A smaller carrier, Sprint, has already begun in certain cities.
Now, in a wireless broadband world, with multi media video, web browsing and music streaming, who's going to want to stick with a two inch, QVGA screen phone with a T9 keypad?
Answer: very few.
That's why Maemo, now MeeGo, is so important for Nokia. It's the next step up from Symbian.
There is no best input interface, as there is no best smartphone. It's always a matter of taste, e.g. somebody who uses intensive web browsing won't care too much about typing speed. As a 5800 user, I miss a lot the keyboard on my old E70 when I have to input text.
Couldn't agree more with the author. My 3 or 4 weeks so far with the 5230 have led me to similar conclusions, and I'm off to see if I can get my N79 screen fixed today to return to "real" buttons, as in T9 or landscape mode the touch keyboards were not quick enough to keep up with my presses! I tried my girlfriend's iPhone and this does seem to keep up with the fastest I can throw at it - whether this is due to the capacitive nature of the screen or the software I don't know. I'll have to live without the extra web browsing space for now, although a lot of sites I browse on my phone are mobile-optimised sites anyway, and work brilliantly with d-pad navigation and very fast to boot, especially through Opera. All personal choice at the end of the day, I don't generally consume video on my mobile phone so I won't miss the large screen for that purpose.
Surely the problem here, as identified already several times by this site, is that Nokia has fudged a touch UI onto a cost-reduced hardware platform running keypad-oriented software. Touch works for Apple because the thing was designed for touch from the get-go. If Apple glued a keyboard onto the iPhone and bodged Symbian S60 onto it that would be a disaster too.
Perhaps Nokia should have stuck to keys for Symbian phones, and tried to sell them against the touch trend by highlighting their advantages (e.g. camera), and launched Maemo as the touch platform, instead of further confusing an already confused market. They also have an opposite approach to Apple, by releasing buggy beta firmware and fixing it over a twelve month period, whereas Apple get core functions working properly before release and then add new features later on - here Nokia should just realise that they have it wrong and change.
Nokia should just update the E90 to make all Non touchscreen people happy. A thinner E90 with the features of the E72 (maybe add 8GB or 32GB internal memory and OLED, but keep S60 3rd FP2) is all I want. I would buy that in a second (and so would many other people I know).
pintofale wrote: Apple get core functions working properly before release and then add new features later on - .
That's what Apple want you to think.
1. Apple do not get core features working properly, as they have released phones with ridiculous bugs (such as call dropping that took two updates to correct) and still have battery life problems and stupid UI problems.
2. Apple hold functions back in order that they can refresh their market and sell more phones in 12 months. There is no reason that the cut and paste could not have been in from 2007, and 3rd party apps prove that the older phones can do video. GPS location could also have gone in from day 1.
@pintofail, what the f*** is a "get-go" ??
This Blackberry keypad form factors is outselling its Storm touch by a long way. Success of Curve and Bold has nothing to do with touch screen.
It makes sense to maximise screen whilst minimising volume. But there is room for alternatives, depends what you want to do with your phone.
I'm sorry but without the addition of a properly designed and implemented touch interface the whole comparison and conclusion here is invalid. Even Nokia have effectively admitted that S60 5th is dreadful, Ewan MacLeod from MIR who's been recently supportive of Nokia's new initiatives described the N97 as a phone from another era to the iPhone generally it is derided. Those who are most supportive of it are generally those with limted experiences outside of Symbian. Without trying touch (forget about the OS "ability" beloved multitasking hem hem etc) on something like an iPhone or even Android you really can have no idea what it's like. Of course it's going to feel awkward and kludgy if you only use Nokia products as that's the main defect that's been apparent for the last 18 months.
Every day I use my N97 next to my girlfriend's iPhone 3GS it's driven home how in pretty much every field the n97 is eons behind and particul.arly in useabil.ity. If anything is being looked up Tubes, Rail, directions (yes I know Ovi maps but she's getting the answer out of Gooogle maps whilst I'm still firiong up Ovi and getting a lock), cinema shows and times, restaurants then she's miles ahead half the time Iwould say and if it involves using the browser then that dfference increases. For instance we were runnning l.ate the other day and I was wondering if we should jump on a bus and checking which ones and I was still trying to eneter the info into TFL's site whilst she'd already looked it up and decided that it wasn't woth the saving. Meanwhile I've got the keybloard out and am still dabbing at the screen trying to get web to respond eventually it got so slow re.oading I gave up.
The "Tactility" of touch on S60 is so poor that it inspires no faith or confidence combined with poor graphics hardware and proccy's make for a very unintuitoive experience that doesn't gel with our brain's physical expectations. Try an iPhone - forget about the ability of the OS just try the ex.erience. S60 is alegedly able especially round these parts but I think it's User Interface is awful and that's what I have to first interract (battle) with every time I pick the phone up and that affects everything I do and feel about it, Windows Mobile is similarly dreadful and look what Microsoft hav had to do to that to stop it disappearing.
Boy SF^3 better be good, though of course why anyone would get a handset running it is beyond me after the N97 debacle. And before the fanbois leap up and down I simply mean that after it' problems and even follolwing several contributors adamant advice it wlould seem foolish in the extreme to get one less than 4-6 months after release at which point SF^4 Golden Child will be on the scene with it's QT goodness and compatibilty break. so bascially no Nokia should be bought for a year 😃
snoFlake wrote: so bascially no Nokia should be bought for a year 😃
Really? So if I have �100 to spend on a phone is the 5230 really so bad that I should buy an iPhone and pay for it for the next 2 years after it's been superceded?
As for your iPhone comparisons, I agree the web/application platform is far better (so it should be for more than double the cost of a 5800). However, I have the 5800 and iPhone in front of me right now. Both contain o2 SIMs, but where the 5800 is showing a solid 3 bars of signal strength, the iPhone is showing no service and periodically flashes up "searching" or one bar. Which of the two would be the better for looking up train times then?
Although the last paragraph has nothing to do with the useability of the touch interface (undisputedly iPhone wins) you cannot dismiss the Nokia as something that should not be bought for a year because there is more to a phone than the UI. Being able to make a simple phone call or send a text message would be a good start. Being able to sustain a battery for a day without having to go into settings and switch off some services would be good. Being able to start an app and switch back on the settings you need without having to leave the app and restart it. Being able to reply to a text without having to close an active app and restart it from square one.
No phone is perfect. Depends where your priorities are.
The great thing with Nokia as well is you could buy a cheap nokia (6120c was probably the best 140 quid I ever spent) to tide you over for a while (and by the looks of things it'd still have rather impressive stats), then get a top tier phone when you feel the time is right.
There is no cheap iphone :P
Really well written piece. I agree with you. The only exception being that, with the increased screen size (a benefit, as you say, of most touch-screen phones), it would become slow and less efficient to move around the screen with a D-pad. Therefore, it seems as though touch-screen control is necessary in order to enjoy larger screen size.
the best of both worlds...why did it never happen? 😞
As much as I love my N900 and the qwerty keyboard, I still miss the speed of use of my N85 for texting, emails and (basic) web browsing using Opera mini and some middle-ground would be amazing.
I think in the near future we will have smartphones with navigation ball, similar with the obsolete computer mice and the screen display won't be an issue anymore.
Unregistered wrote:Really? So if I have �100 to spend on a phone is the 5230 really so bad that I should buy an iPhone and pay for it for the next 2 years after it's been superceded?As for your iPhone comparisons, I agree the web/application platform is far better (so it should be for more than double the cost of a 5800). However, I have the 5800 and iPhone in front of me right now. Both contain o2 SIMs, but where the 5800 is showing a solid 3 bars of signal strength, the iPhone is showing no service and periodically flashes up "searching" or one bar. Which of the two would be the better for looking up train times then?
Although the last paragraph has nothing to do with the useability of the touch interface (undisputedly iPhone wins) you cannot dismiss the Nokia as something that should not be bought for a year because there is more to a phone than the UI. Being able to make a simple phone call or send a text message would be a good start. Being able to sustain a battery for a day without having to go into settings and switch off some services would be good. Being able to start an app and switch back on the settings you need without having to leave the app and restart it. Being able to reply to a text without having to close an active app and restart it from square one.
No phone is perfect. Depends where your priorities are.
I'm feeling like a stuck record ... the 5230 is the phone bargain of the moment. Nothing comes close for the price. Costs less than TomTom for the iPhone ....
Nokia are (thankfully) gradually improving the UI experience on S60v5. I had one of the early 5800's, and it was absolutely dire. Now I've had a few weeks with a 5230, and its like a totally different device.
Your last statement hits the nail on the head. There isn't such a thing as a perfect device - every device has its pro's and cons. For me right now, the 5230 checks more boxes than anything else. The fact that its dirty cheap is a huge bonus.
clonmult wrote:Nokia are (thankfully) gradually improving the UI experience on S60v5. I had one of the early 5800's, and it was absolutely dire. Now I've had a few weeks with a 5230, and its like a totally different device.
.
V40 firmware on the 5800 is very similar to the 5230.
ratza wrote:I think in the near future we will have smartphones with navigation ball, similar with the obsolete computer mice and the screen display won't be an issue anymore.
In the future? How about Blackberry Pearl? About 3 years ago.
A little off-topic but I'd just like to say how much I agree with Bluejacker above.
Nokia - of course - needs to focus on touch and get it right. They'll do so.
But I would LOVE an updated E90: with FP2, lots of memory, and a 5mp Carl Zeiss camera...
Off course touch is the future of technology, not just it looks cool but also make communication an easy job.
ratza wrote:I think in the near future we will have smartphones with navigation ball, similar with the obsolete computer mice and the screen display won't be an issue anymore.
Eh? The future? You mean 2007? See: Blackberry and HTC trackballs.
Regarding a revamped E90, and the E-series in general: I'm rocking an E71 right now and in my opinion the non-update of the E72 shows that S60v3 for the E-series has pretty much hit a wall.
The next E-device from Nokia also can't get away with the same ARM 11 CPU even if it is overclocked, 128 MB of RAM along with a QVGA low resolution screen. If they continue down that road, RIM, with their current re-think development of the Blackberry software is going to kill them.
Regarding the other competition: my girlfriend just bought a Google Nexus One----now I want one. It's an amazing device. Using that next to an E71, no matter how well it has served me, is like night and day. Live wallpapers, people! Gesture search is also fantastic: draw a big 'G' with your finger on the screen in the address book, and the phone brings up all contacts beginning with the letter G.
@jimmy1, um which one is easier, drawing G with your finger on your contact book or simply pressing the letter g on the e71's keyboard? You dont even have to go into the contacts book for the e71, just press it at the homescreen. And again you are comparing non-touch with touch, compared with other touchscreen phones simply drawing 'G' and getting your contacts would be quite intuitive, however it cant compare to simply pressing 'G' on a keyboard... This is where fanciness diverts people from true performance.
Kalel17 wrote:This is where fanciness diverts people from true performance.
Yes, but when you're spending a few hundred dollars/euros/pounds on a smartphone, fanciness and eye-candy are highly appreciated.
If say the N97 Mini or the E72 were offered, unlocked, for say, $200, it's one thing. Nokia offers their current "high-end" devices for double that. For that amount, I can just get something else with a modern operating system and better hardware, and yes, more eye-candy.
Have just caught up with the comments here. Thanks to everyone for leaving their thoughts, for and against 😊
In line with my comment about companies "loosing their identity", it would have been interesting to see how things would have turned out if other companies had ignored the iPhone craze.
Having said that, I don't think there's much wrong with touch screens as long as that's not the only way you can interact with the device. The finger print problem definitely needs sorting out though.
I get the points about S60v5 being bodged together, although, in the time I've had this N97 and 5530, there's nothing specific about those interfaces I'd complain about. I think the points of criticism brought to the article are generic to any touch interface.
Having said that, there was one thing about the S60 interface I'd like to see. If you see the N97 text message photo, and you see the touch buttons on the right. I think that's exactly the right way to handle the interface, but I do think there ought to be an option somewhere to throw those onto the left side for left-handed people.
I think in the near future we will have smartphones with navigation ball, similar with the obsolete computer mice and the screen display won't be an issue anymore.Unregistered wrote:In the future? How about Blackberry Pearl? About 3 years ago.
To play Devil's Advocate, I think Ratza meant a touch screen smartphone with a trackball. Still, it was already done with the G1, right?
Jimmy1 wrote:Yes, but when you're spending a few hundred dollars/euros/pounds on a smartphone, fanciness and eye-candy are highly appreciated..
I believe this is true of the eye candy effect has genuinely beneficial function. A transition effect just for the sake of a transition effect is good fun for the first 10 minutes, then it just becomes a delay. For example, the page-turning effect on WinMo 7, is just a waste of CPU time.
@David, another nice article and i liked the idea, I was thinking along same lines for long time. Most of our thoughts match about touch interface. I am also still not fully convinced using "only" touch phones like iphone or 5800. It's not that i have not tried those I used iphone for 1 month and 5800 for over 3 months but never got to same comfort while typing as i got with my old N82-perhaps many think that was worst keypad phone in recent past though i just dont agree. 😊 Same I you I find screen size as huge advantage. But apart from that I will still like to have hardware keys on phone. May be could try hybrids like N97 type.
And I liked comment from @kalel17, "This is where fanciness diverts people from true performance." Thats exactly point. One of my colleague was trying to show me off with his 5800 , how he can write on screen with stylus. But whats point when single keypress can do same, in fraction of time. I really can't get all this.
May be this is where difference between Eseries(productivity) and others come in 😊
suyogmh wrote:@. One of my colleague was trying to show me off with his 5800 , how he can write on screen with stylus. But whats point when single keypress can do same, in fraction of time. I really can't get all this.
Have you considered all languages, and particularly asian languages which are not represented graphically by the latin alphabet? How do you input those characters with a single keypress?
As usual people can't see beyond their own self-centred requirements. Try thinking a bit harder next time. Your little world is not the whole world.
@Mr. Guest, Complex characters are being used by keypads since long time. I agree that touchscreen make it easier. But whole point here is "If there is way to use keypad(Latin/Cyrillic/Arabic characters) then why use lengthy/fancy methods"
It;s just fancy/gimmicky Vs pure productivity, and I will go to later anyday.
Where do I find the millions of various product codes for iPhone when the Nokia has got them? AND NOT posting firmware updates for half of them huh?(Take the N97 latest firmware update for an example, which millions of devices are still unable to get updates, when compared to one product code for iPhone :S :@)