If you're in the 'why can't Nokia do a camera phone with 18 megapixels and 10x optical zoom?' camp then Nokia imaging supremo Damian Dinning (the guy behind the N73, N82 and N86) waxes lyrical here on the impracticalities of fitting such optics, sensor and supporting elements into a phone form factor. These things, as you'll see, are always a lot more complicated than meets the eye!
Read on in the full article.
Give me 3Mp but on as large a sensor as practical in a phone, with a normal angle (rather than wide) lens for simpler optics. Bigger individual pixels would then mean much better low light performance. 3Mp is plenty for printing snapshots and webuse, all anyone really does. And I'll appreciate the low noise too.
Sadly this'll never happen, as more megapixels sell... 😞
the_accidental wrote:Give me 3Mp but on as large a sensor as practical in a phone, with a normal angle (rather than wide) lens for simpler optics. Bigger individual pixels would then mean much better low light performance. 3Mp is plenty for printing snapshots and webuse, all anyone really does. And I'll appreciate the low noise too.Sadly this'll never happen, as more megapixels sell... 😞
I'm a big supporter of bigger pixels...
Most people who pay attention to the world around them know all this stuff. It's basic.
Most people who pay attention to the world around them know all this stuff. It's basic.
Basic? You mean it has pH > 7 😊
I'm a big supporter of bigger pixels...
Hi Damian,
I bought an N97 and one of the key reasons is because of the good enough camera (for a phone) and the balanced product capabilities.
5mp is good enough for everyday use especially as I have a tendancy to crop photos after taking them. Cropping is also similar to zooming so what's most important is to just have enough pixels to allow a decent crop. Therefore I don't think optical zoom is essential.
What's important for me is 1) less noise and 2) better computer algorithms.
1) The camera sensor can be larger to allow for better low light performance. With a larger sensor we will be able to have shallower depth of field performance. While I understand the practicalities of having a larger sensor, but a large device like the N97 can perhaps skip the 32gb but offer a large sensor camera, offering high quality video & low level noise would be attractive (as memory is cheap now) and a key differentiator.
2) Computer algorithms is also key. Canon has continued on their megapixel race (vs Nikon) but continues to deliver good JPEG performance despite a noisier raw image. It would be best to improve the jpg optimization process (some creative users have already provided an optimization to reduce compression) & boost image contrast slightly (for consumers).
While the rest of the mobile phone space is going onto 12mp, if Nokia can say "we deliver a 5mp or 8mp, but it is by far the best phone camera ever, this will truly help Nokia differentiate from others and match enthusiast demands. Print some sample pictures from Nokia phones and have it on display at your points of sales and people will simply be amazed their next Nokia can truly replace their camera. Print a few Iphone or HTC photos so poeple can visualize the difference. Think about the size of the Canon or Nikon market share.
yitwave wrote:2) Computer algorithms is also key. Canon has continued on their megapixel race (vs Nikon) but continues to deliver good JPEG performance despite a noisier raw image. It would be best to improve the jpg optimization process (some creative users have already provided an optimization to reduce compression) & boost image contrast slightly (for consumers).
.
Canon recognised the stupidity of packing ever more megapixels onto tiny sensors and went back, from 14MP on the G10 to 10MP on the later G11. Smart move, better images quality.
There are 12MP phones, but for these even tinier sensors, 8MP is the ceiling with current sensor tehnology, where the law of diminising returns really kicks in.
12 is a number used to sell more phonest to f***wits, not generate better image quality.
DamianDinning wrote:I'm a big supporter of bigger pixels...
Which has to be the way forward.
I have to admit to almost having given up on mobile cameras until optical zoom starts to make a regular appearance - I'd happily have something slightly chunkier, but with the folded optics as used in some dedicated cameras (I've got a panasonic FT1). Nice that you mention that in the article, as its something that doesn't often seem to be mentioned.
I wouldn't expect a huge optical zoom in a phone, but 3x would be useful.
the_accidental wrote:Give me 3Mp but on as large a sensor as practical in a phone, with a normal angle (rather than wide) lens for simpler optics. Bigger individual pixels would then mean much better low light performance. 3Mp is plenty for printing snapshots and webuse, all anyone really does. And I'll appreciate the low noise too.Sadly this'll never happen, as more megapixels sell... 😞
Aye, you're sadly right on that last point - the whole market is chasing pixel count at the expense of all else.
A few years back I did some side-by-sides of the N73 against a 6mp Casio camera. The N73 definitely had better optics. And sadly, the N73 appeared to have better optics than either the N95 or N85, with the only real issue being the colour balance being ever so slightly whacky (reds - why do so many cameras have issues with reds?).
first off, excellent article. I also like more MPs, but Nokia please don't kill all your hard work with stiff/rigid camera key! This is the only thing I dislike with my N86
Unregistered wrote:There are 12MP phones, but for these even tinier sensors, 8MP is the ceiling with current sensor tehnology, where the law of diminising returns really kicks in.12 is a number used to sell more phonest to f***wits, not generate better image quality.
Interesting theory. Completely demolished by the fact that the upcoming N8(-00) has 12MP camera. So either the world's leading phone manufacturer for many years, who also now sell the most digital cameras, are wrong. Or you're wrong. Hmmm....
Unregistered wrote:Interesting theory. Completely demolished by the fact that the upcoming N8(-00) has 12MP camera. So either the world's leading phone manufacturer for many years, who also now sell the most digital cameras, are wrong. Or you're wrong. Hmmm....
Not demolished. The fact that Nokia are developing a 12MP phone is neither here nor there, it's proven that smaller pixels take down image quality.
Nokia want to get on the bandwagon and sell phones to f***wits too. Why woyuldn't they? They are a business.
And they never get aqnything wrong do they........