Ok, lets imagine the Nokia N8, but with Android, lets call it, the A8. And lets imagine they gave it a stock Android interface but all the hardware support with 16 Gig, Wireless N, FM Radio, FM Transmitter, HDMI out, 12 MP Camera and Xenon flash (ooh sounds better all the time) out of the box.
Would you have the A8 over the N8?
I think I personally would.
If it came with all that hardware, plus of course physical qwerty k/b, fully functioning Maps with free voice guidance and minimum of 1GHz CPU processor, I'd buy it tomorrow. Hell, I'd buy it today.
The N8 at this moment, I wouldn't even entertain.
I just look at where we are with Symbian. There's no Last.FM app, No Shazam, no Layar, loads of things missing, Im sure you can get loads of homebrew stuff, but crikey. Come on!
How long will it be before these things are supported properly and officially on Symbian^3.
Nokia should cut their losses and pride with Symbian, and start releasing Android.
Actually there is a Last.fm app (Mobbler) and Shazam. Layar for Symbian is in development (think its due out soon)... These should all work on Symbian^3. This actually shows one of the problem Symbian has - difference between perception and reality...
And if running Android on the N8's hardware you would not get the same performance - Symbian is more frugal with its resources (processor, RAM, energy)... Not to mention the fact that some of the hardware (HDMI out and bits of camera) is dependent on Symbian functionality. You would lose all the Ovi services too. Sure you get the Google ones, which is ok if you only use Google services, but that applies to only a small minority.
Interesting thought exercise though!
Rafe wrote:Actually there is a Last.fm app (Mobbler) and Shazam. Layar for Symbian is in development (think its due out soon)... These should all work on Symbian^3. This actually shows one of the problem Symbian has - difference between perception and reality...And if running Android on the N8's hardware you would not get the same performance - Symbian is more frugal with its resources (processor, RAM, energy)... Not to mention the fact that some of the hardware (HDMI out and bits of camera) is dependent on Symbian functionality. You would lose all the Ovi services too. Sure you get the Google ones, which is ok if you only use Google services, but that applies to only a small minority.
Interesting thought exercise though!
here's one for you, threaded text messages. really advanced stuff, everyone else has managed to crack that one. any difference between perception and reality there?
A decent UI on Nokia's hardware would be mutts nuts.
Fair point on threaded text messages - you have to use third party software if you want this.
My understanding this is coming in the Nokia N8.
I don't think anyone would argue that the UI does not need improving. What people do argue about is how important this is relative to other merits.
Anyway roll on Symbian^3 and Symbian^4!
Rafe wrote:Fair point on threaded text messages - you have to use third party software if you want this.My understanding this is coming in the Nokia N8.
I don't think anyone would argue that the UI does not need improving. What people do argue about is how important this is relative to other merits.
Anyway roll on Symbian^3 and Symbian^4!
well, having bought and sold the Desire, certainly for me UI does not make up for lack of hardware.
But at the same time, there is no point having great hardware if you cannot use it as intended.
I think what people really want is a UI that does justice to the hardware and makes it easy to use, rather than having to coax it to life and hope it doesn't crash.
i'm don't really care whether the N8 is slick, i just want it to work, does that make sense?
spirit44 wrote:i'm don't really care whether the N8 is slick, i just want it to work, does that make sense?
Absolutely. This is the very reason I'm fond of the E72. Also why things like camera button that work (easy to press, fast activating camera) are sometimes more important than a given function in a given app.
The issue is, of course, is what this constitutes varies enormously for different people. This is why its important to distinguish between pure UI and UX.
I personally think there's a current over emphasis on UI and looks, but that's a rather subjective opinion. For other the fashion of their phone is of paramount importance.
What's UX?
jamessmith01 wrote:What's UX?
i thought it meant user experience
Rafe wrote:Actually there is a Last.fm app (Mobbler) and Shazam. Layar for Symbian is in development (think its due out soon)... These should all work on Symbian^3. This actually shows one of the problem Symbian has - difference between perception and reality...And if running Android on the N8's hardware you would not get the same performance - Symbian is more frugal with its resources (processor, RAM, energy)... Not to mention the fact that some of the hardware (HDMI out and bits of camera) is dependent on Symbian functionality. You would lose all the Ovi services too. Sure you get the Google ones, which is ok if you only use Google services, but that applies to only a small minority.
Interesting thought exercise though!
Thanks Rafe. Shazam wasn't available a few days ago and I got in a huff and stormed off. Likewise equally disappointing when you don't see an official Last.fm client but I'll have a go with Mobbler.
I've been a Symbian user for quite a while, think it was with the 7610 I first started, or was it the 3360 with the round keypad.
I've seen software DivX players come and go and improvements made to the software, but to see Symbian^3 not really change that much graphically is quite a disappointment.
Ideally Im hoping that they've completely revamped menus and messaging interfaces, the real core elements of the phone, and maybe have some better widgets so you can have a combined RSS feed that is say two, three or even four widgets high.
Get a friendstream kind of widget in there combining facebook and twitter, or perhaps a facebook widget that you can click on and have the thing expand. It's all a bit too static at the moment.
Totally, 100%, without a shadow of doubt, I think the N8 (apart from the screen and lacklustre processor and memory specs) are absolutely incredible. But the OS still leaves me cold.
The OVI store is quite poor in comparison, and we do have to wait around for our apps. SportsTracker has only just been released for the N97/5800 (yes granted it change ownership), but it seems developers focus more on iPhone and Android apps. And I can't believe Nokia still haven't licensed DivX. I want DivX! 😊
And when you think about movies on Digital Copy, no one supports Symbian. I think Android has more of a chance at being supported than Symbian, because it is getting more popular.
Nokia really need some kind of huge push, a huge design change to push Symbian forwards.
Hopefully the QT toolkit will open up development.
But until then, Im parking myself in the Android camp.
Hoping that the N8 gets more screen shots soon.
Rafe wrote:Absolutely. This is the very reason I'm fond of the E72. Also why things like camera button that work (easy to press, fast activating camera) are sometimes more important than a given function in a given app.The issue is, of course, is what this constitutes varies enormously for different people. This is why its important to distinguish between pure UI and UX.
I personally think there's a current over emphasis on UI and looks, but that's a rather subjective opinion. For other the fashion of their phone is of paramount importance.
Looks like I made a good choice in acquiring the E72 then.....😃
After the experience with the N97, and I remember saying this same thing to friend who has the Samsung i8910, was that I wasn't overimpressed with touchscreen phones. It does seem like style over substance, and now having got rid of the N97, I can see what Nokia was trying to do, having both substance ( superb list of hardware ) and also style, but sadly , it couldn't quite carry it off for me.
Android at the moment, and the Desire, looks like a phone / OS that is trying to rival the iPhone - which is essentially, a phone that does the basics, very well, and very stylishly. THe reason i didn't buy it, was that it was lacking a few bits of hardware. I went for the E72 as I wanted a physical k/b, and in essence, a phone that operated in the same / similar fashion to my beloved N95. Plus I didn't want to shell out �450+ for another phone and be left disappointed as I was with the N97.
Andorid does seem to be making phones that are little lacking in the hardware arena, so based upon the above comments, does this lead us to a conclusion that only Symbian can truly handle the massive list of hardware that we all want? It does need to modernise though, the UI on the N97 was terrible to be frank, whereas on the E72 it seems to fit the bill.
sjdean wrote:Ok, lets imagine the Nokia N8, but with Android, lets call it, the A8. And lets imagine they gave it a stock Android interface but all the hardware support with 16 Gig, Wireless N, FM Radio, FM Transmitter, HDMI out, 12 MP Camera and Xenon flash (ooh sounds better all the time) out of the box.Would you have the A8 over the N8?
I think I personally would.
If Nokia made an Android phone it would likely have a slow processor and not enough RAM. Now if HTC made a Symbian^3 phone, that would be fantastic! (Except it would still have a shite camera)
stick with symbian, i dont think i can customise an android phone to be like how my symbian one works..
sjdean wrote:Ok, lets imagine the Nokia N8, but with Android, lets call it, the A8. And lets imagine they gave it a stock Android interface but all the hardware support with 16 Gig, Wireless N, FM Radio, FM Transmitter, HDMI out, 12 MP Camera and Xenon flash (ooh sounds better all the time) out of the box.Would you have the A8 over the N8?
I think I personally would.
Yes I would (probably!)
However, the closest Nokia has come to throwing out Symbian was the N900, and it hasn't taken the market by storm. I think Nokia's loyalty to Symbian will last a few years more...
sjdean wrote:Ok, lets imagine the Nokia N8, but with Android, lets call it, the A8. And lets imagine they gave it a stock Android interface but all the hardware support with 16 Gig, Wireless N, FM Radio, FM Transmitter, HDMI out, 12 MP Camera and Xenon flash (ooh sounds better all the time) out of the box.Would you have the A8 over the N8?
I think I personally would.
Surprised myself this week and decided I couldn't wait for Nokia's next/new/improved O/S, and ended up buying an Andriod HTC Desire.
After one day's use I am VERY impressed overall... apart from one silly little design flaw - all the apps have to be installed to the internal memory on Andriod.
Therefore after only one day I have 25MB free on the phone memory and 6.5GB free on the memory card - and I only installed about 10 apps from the Android Market.
The next few weeks will result in me either putting my N97 on eBay (or not! my partner has bet me I will never be happy with a non Nokia handset and will buy another in 3 months)
dez...
Please don't say that you've crossed over to the dark side!
Hopefully, like the Terminator, you'll be back.
Does seem crazy that you can only install app's to the internal memory.
I must say, the one thing I've always coveted about HTC was the clock. I was so disappointed when not even Pizero's Black Pro theme could change it.
However, today with the help of SPB Shell, and a little modding, I've got my wish.
dez_borders wrote:Surprised myself this week and decided I couldn't wait for Nokia's next/new/improved O/S, and ended up buying an Andriod HTC Desire.
DEZ 😮 !!!!!
hang your head in shame and go and sit on the naughty step 😡
dez_borders wrote:Surprised myself this week and decided I couldn't wait for Nokia's next/new/improved O/S, and ended up buying an Andriod HTC Desire.After one day's use I am VERY impressed overall... apart from one silly little design flaw - all the apps have to be installed to the internal memory on Andriod.
Therefore after only one day I have 25MB free on the phone memory and 6.5GB free on the memory card - and I only installed about 10 apps from the Android Market.The next few weeks will result in me either putting my N97 on eBay (or not! my partner has bet me I will never be happy with a non Nokia handset and will buy another in 3 months)
Apparently, the solution to this is to "root" your Android device, once this is done, you can then install apps onto the SD card.
Not sure how to do it, but I think it's akin to debranding a Nokia device, voids your warranty- do it at your own risk etc etc. THe benefits do seem to be greater than the risks, esp this issie of then freeing up more phone memory.
As I've mentioned a few times before, I was on the verge of getting a Desire, but in the end, I'd have been paying virtually the same money I paid for the N97, but it had a few less features ( but ultimately better performance! )
In the end, went with an E72, which I have to say, impresses me more each passing week I have it, and don't covet a 'fancy touchscreen " phone these days....
ironass wrote: dez...Please don't say that you've crossed over to the dark side!
Hopefully, like the Terminator, you'll be back.
I haven't left AAS, not yet anyway. 😉
ironass wrote:
Does seem crazy that you can only install app's to the internal memory.
This morning I only have 17.8MB free in phone memory on the HTC, and have probably around 1/3 the number of apps installed on HTC compared with N97.
You can install apps to memory card if you root the device, but this invalidates the warranty, risks brisking the device, and disables future (automated) updates of FW and APPS so I am not going there. Hopefully Andriod will support installing to memory card in some future FW version.
ironass wrote:
I must say, the one thing I've always coveted about HTC was the clock. I was so disappointed when not even Pizero's Black Pro theme could change it.However, today with the help of SPB Shell, and a little modding, I've got my wish.
Well Done! However, lovely though the HTC clock is, it takes up half the main home screen, which could have displayed my most used apps and widgets.
I am still assessing battery charge / life on the HTC. All that pretty animation and running widgets/apps in the background must take their toll. lol.
I need to make a long-term decision in a week or 2 as to whether to go back to my N97 or stay with HTC as I can't afford to keep both devices.
After that I won't be able to afford another handset change for at least 12 months. (I am on PAYG, so buy my mob's Sim-Free).
dez_borders wrote:
Well Done! However, lovely though the HTC clock is, it takes up half the main home screen, which could have displayed my most used apps and widgets.
Luckily, that's the beauty of SPB Shell, you can have as many as 10 home screens, although I confine myself to just 3.
This clock (and its size) is perfect for my old eyes. Well worth giving the 15 day trial a go on SPB Shell as I believe it shows what the Symbian platform can do and what should have been installed on the N97 from launch.
Might even change your mind about the N97. Its certainly given mine a whole new lease of life.
Tried replying to this thread earlier in the day, but that old chestnut of my posts being moderated raised its ugly head again....
Re the OS of the device, anyone see the post marketing the new UI for S60 phones - hiplogic? Just wonder if anyone knows of a "friend of a friend" who might have tried it. Looks interesting.....
Right - just about to press the 'Submit' button. It will either appear 'as if by magic' or probably be lost in the ether.....
ironass wrote:Luckily, that's the beauty of SPB Shell, you can have as many as 10 home screens, although I confine myself to just 3.This clock (and its size) is perfect for my old eyes. Well worth giving the 15 day trial a go on SPB Shell as I believe it shows what the Symbian platform can do and what should have been installed on the N97 from launch.
Might even change your mind about the N97. Its certainly given mine a whole new lease of life.
I will certainly try out PSB Shell if I decide not to keep the HTC 😉
HTC Update: Battery almost dead after 12 hours, 2 GPS apps (Google Maps Navigation Beta and CoPilot) both send voice guidance thru speaker instead of connected bluetooth headset.
dez_borders wrote:After one day's use I am VERY impressed overall... apart from one silly little design flaw - all the apps have to be installed to the internal memory on Andriod.
Therefore after only one day I have 25MB free on the phone memory and 6.5GB free on the memory card - and I only installed about 10 apps from the Android Market.
Android 2.2 fixes this, giving you the choice to install to phone memory or SD card. It also adds the option of making your phone a WiFi hotspot (like joikuspot) and speeds the browser up by around 200% and the OS operation in general.
Only problem with HTC sense is that it takes HTC a while longer to get the android updates out vs vanilla android.
celios wrote:Android 2.2 fixes this, giving you the choice to install to phone memory or SD card. It also adds the option of making your phone a WiFi hotspot (like joikuspot) and speeds the browser up by around 200% and the OS operation in general.Only problem with HTC sense is that it takes HTC a while longer to get the android updates out vs vanilla android.
That's good to know, thanks. 😉 I will just have to await the 2.2 software upgrade prompt to appear.