Video: Nokia N8 hands-on and first thoughts

Unregistered wrote:Hear Hear, forget about videos, music, pictures for while, what are the pims like, is the calender app fit for purpose, can i easily find a contact and fire off an email, how easy is it to dial from the address book etc. Or in other words is the phone usable as an all day communication device or is it really just a gadget for fun. No criticism on your preview just asking.

No reasons to think it won't be much different to previous Symbian devices on that count - address book will work well, calendar should be quite functional (albeit not quite as good as that in WM).

gdigenis wrote:

what bothers me is that so many bloggers are posting videos and every single one of them is about the exact same things, the hardware and media capabilities. all of the videos are showing the camera, the hdmi connector, the music player, gallery, etc, but none of them show the new phone book, or the calendar, or the dialer.

A good point actually. Multimedia functions are nice but Symbian has long needed a serious overhaul of its PIM functions, which in a way is the back bone of any phone regardless of target group. My old Palm V is still superior in this respect. I hope Nokia doesnt forget this in their revamp of the OS.

nobody has replicated palm OS pims not even palm themselves, which is shocking really

Unregistered wrote:So glad to see the N8 working an the New Symbian^3 software,just wished Nokia wouldn"t have announced the N8 to early an the phone was not even ready,thats one thing thats got to be changed at Nokia,still want to hear the speakers playing music on the N8,September will be the release date i hope an with the iPhone 4 out,we will see if the N8 gets Nokia back on track or not,as the N97 failure puts pressure on Nokia an hope the N8 does not let me down

The speakers or rather speaker is mono (i.e. just one). But it is good quality. Stereo speakers on a mobile phone don't actually mean that much given there's little physical separation. Based on the short play time I'd say its not up to 5800 (that was fairly unique), but is good.

And yes wait and see on N9 - from what saw it's looking good.

mkr10001 wrote:Possibly done to dissuade people from going for the iPhone 4 if they thought nokia didn't have anything up their sleeve.

For Nokia's sake I really hope this is a brilliant device and they keep delivering brilliant devices, and it's not just N95 all over again

The reason Nokia announces device earlier is to do with the way they do business. They have to show devices to partners (operators in particular) in order to get orders - this happens up to six months ahead of time. Operators also want briefing on devices, testing units and training units etc etc. All this means there's no way Nokia can keep things quiet (as we already see from leaks that do happen - nearly all of which come via operators or developers). So better to announce early than have gradual leaks (which tend to be unkind) soiling a 3 week before announcement. It is very different for a company like Apple (and to an extent other boutique smartphone manufacturers) because they are dealing with things on a much smaller scale (product numbers and number of partners) - note for example while the iPhone 4 will launch in 4 countries shortly, most markets are significantly behind that (September of later).

cambo wrote:HeY Rafe was there any mention of how the 12mah battery would handle this phone? as there are a few people i know who are concerned about the battery

I have been told that it should be sufficient - no way of knowing until we do some testing. Should be similar to N97 mini which I find OK. There's a lot of power saving stuff in Symbian^3 which should also help.

Unregistered wrote:how could you forget this? The intelligent keyboard is soarly missed on symbian devices - there room for more meaning this feature is missing?

Thank god though they moved the green v (ok key) to a more comfortable position than s60v5.. (you can see the keyboard in one of the 3 demo vids)

I've got some still images. On the site shortly. However trying to remember everything in a run through video 5 minutes after being handed the device is a lot harder than it sonds (and keeping a running commentary going). The keyboard is improved (e.g. there is a correction feature), but I think there's space for innovation here.

darkmark wrote:How is the screen resolution compare to other top end devices? I find myself disappointed in Nokia releasing great displays, but the specs show it's lacking the resolution of it's competitors.

Unregistered wrote:Rafe,

While the N8 is generally excellent I think, I have to say Ovi Maps looks like it's had no improvement whatsoever. I'm not sure how you can say the performance has improved when the zooming and panning genuinely appears exactly the same speed as it does on my 5800 or N82, and is not actually that impressive in the first place. Furthermore lack of a pinch zoom in Maps is just lame considering it's the new zoom method in other places on the N8, and it is still highly irritating that you can't easily pan and zoom on a planned route, or even better drag a route to where one wants it exactly (e.g. to improve on a calculated route with personal knowledge).

The N8 browser is also below par. Performance does not look that good - it looks like the same old thing that's just not up to the standard of say Opera Mobile 10 (and I'm not talking UI, I'm talking performance). The N8 needs a decent browser desperately, and it looks like they just added pinch zoom to the old code base rather than fundamentally improving things under the hood.

The rest of the device is excellent though, thanks for the review.

Ovi Maps is being constantly updated so we shall see. Its developed separately to the platform so time tables do not always align (i.e. there'll be another Maps update in the autumn time frame). As for performance - it felt faster to me that's all I can say (I didn't play with it for long) - plus the capacitive screen does help with planning in particular (less good for accurate selection though perhaps). I actually feel a zoom bar is better in maps because it easier to use one handed (important when driving).

For browser - yes it is Browser 7.2 with multi-touch added. It is quicker though thanks to the extra memory and processor (very difficult to judge in short time). There are also some small UI changes and single tap makes things more efficient in places. I would also say the browser is one of the apps that benefits most from a capacitive screen (other way round for some apps). Of course the nice thing about the N8 is there are several browsers you can add to it. Like Maps the browser is now developed separately to the platform - that means we should see Browser 8.0 before the end of the year. My understanding is that this will be Qt based (QtWebkit) and will have a reworked UI. Watch this space.

Peter Sulzer wrote:Very, very impressive!

I assume, it was the first time you have had your hands on a N8 - impressive what you could do with it for the first time usage.

This could become the first phone, I buy just for fun. For serious usage it is unfortunately useless because of its much too small display (my E90 - 3 years old[!] - has an higher resolution). Android, Maemo, Windows Mobile all have at least >= 800x480, the new iPhone will have 960x640.

It is frustrating. Symbian was for years the Smartphone with the highest resolution thanks to the Nokia Communicators. And now where they finally have the nice touchscreen (as the wonderfully Psion 5) and have a GUI as fast as that of a Psion 5 mx, they are loosing because of the weak display resolution (if you could not remember: A Psion has 640x240 - that was 1997 or so) :-|

Peter

Yes that was the first time I had hands-on. I had a short time to play before (as I was listening to a presentation), although the video was the first time I had dived into some of the applications.

I don't get too hung on the resolution - there comes a point where physical screen size means extra pixels don't make a big difference (I think productivity work might be the one exception to this). A far bigger factor in my opinion is how the UX uses the available screen space - and S^3 is an improvement in this regard.

I guess its one of those things that is always going to be a compromise between cost and benefit. I think MeeGo might be the best bet for you, given your E90 history (E90 does really fit into traditional smartphone classification in my opinion).

Unregistered wrote:at 4:50, it is very sluggish to get into email, sigh

Pre-release software - and given Nokia Messaging is an Nokia component I imagine the full integration work is yet to be done. I'd also expect it to be one of the apps your keep running (in which ccase you switch to it instantly).

Karl 773ER wrote:Hi Rafe, would it be possible to ask about region codes (eg if region codes determine languages available on the device)? If you are able to test another Nokia N8, could you check the languages available too? That would be very much appreciated. 😊

Can't view the video now,unfortunately. No flash on my WM Opera Browser 😞

Yes region codes / product codes - will determine languages - so will depend on which one you get. I imagine they will be similar to existing Nokia products. The hardware will be the same - no more NAM variants 😊

gdigenis wrote:it was nice to watch a video where the person handling the device actually knew what they were talking about and didnt have to read the specs from a piece of paper. well done again, rafe.

what bothers me is that so many bloggers are posting videos and every single one of them is about the exact same things, the hardware and media capabilities. all of the videos are showing the camera, the hdmi connector, the music player, gallery, etc, but none of them show the new phone book, or the calendar, or the dialer. i am sure that the hardware will be awesome. i am pretty sure that the media functions will be very good (wouldnt be surprised if it took a couple of firmware updates to get it 100% though) but thats what i expect from nokia when the phone doesnt have a slider. the reason i left s60 for android is because i wanted a touchscreen phone that was easy to use. i would love to see a video that shows how easy it is to find a contact by typing in their name. is it the same ridiculous system that s60 5th uses or have them implemented a smart-dialer? how easy is it to enter a calendar entry? how easy is it to start and send a sms and email when the person is not one of your favorites? is there a universal search that is easy and quick to use? i guess what i am looking for is for someone to talk about how easy it is to use this device to communicate with others and manage pim info? i use my devices all day long, with an hours worth or calls where most calls only last two minutes, so there is lots of calling back and lots of calls to people that i need to look up their number. i send 20-40 sms and emails per day, plus i use the calendar to keep me on schedule for meetings and things that need to get done.

if you could forget about the camera, music player, and browser for a minute (all of which are features i use everyday also) i would love to hear your opinion on the changes to the ui that will enhance using this device to communicate and stay connected.

Got a post on some of this for later. I guess one of the reasons people focus on the multimedia as it has the most obvious changes and as a whole is what people have most interest in. That said...

There is a smart dialer (woo-hoo) - similar to the Eseries implementation - this enables quick calling and communication with people. Contacts has also had contacts cards reworked. The search system is, I think, the same as on S60 5.0 (within Contacts). Calendar remains much the same but has a few tweaks. One of which is multiple Calendar support. Sorry I didn't spend more time on these bits, but time was limited.

Unregistered wrote:does the n8 have a portrait keyboard?

Yes, its is a 12 key with optional T9.

Unregistered wrote:Nokia has not changed, modified their PIM since years (maybe 6 years or more). This device is to compete with Android and iphone to show that Nokia has media capabilities. I have no expectation for any other improvements.

Last weeks there is rumor that Nokia will manufacture phones with WM7, and I do understand it, as the Symbian is far behind all three leaders WM7, Android and iPhone and I don't think it will improve in the next year.

Isaac

Actually there have been some updates to PIM (see above), but also reworked UI and so on.

That Symbian is behind WM7, Android and iPhone is an opinion. I don't agree. All platform have their own advantages and disadvantages. Symbian is more mature and technically capable than its competitors, but has lagged behind in UI. Symbian^3 makes some good improvements, but it fair to say there are more obvious UI changes coming in Symbian^4.

Unregistered wrote:This phone is already dead on the water.
Can you imagine Apple showing off a device with half-baked software?
To choose this over a Nexus or Desire you have to be a Fanboy or insane, probably both.

Every phone will appeal to someone for some reason. The questions is how many people it will appeal to. Those who can't see this (regardless of what phone we are talking about) need to step back and take a wider view.

Unregistered wrote:Hear Hear, forget about videos, music, pictures for while, what are the pims like, is the calender app fit for purpose, can i easily find a contact and fire off an email, how easy is it to dial from the address book etc. Or in other words is the phone usable as an all day communication device or is it really just a gadget for fun. No criticism on your preview just asking.

See above. I would say its very good as a communication device... though as I think I have said before I still think the Eseries devices are the best in this regard. I personally prefer having physical send and end keys (which the N8 does not have).

miki69 wrote:Excellent preview Rafe, can you tell me more about camera button itself? Is it easy/soft to press, not as stiff as one in N86. Also when changing orientation in Gallery do thumbnails run smooth or they get pixelated as in N86? Any idea what was free memory left with those 7 apps on?

Cheers,
Miki

Definitely not as stiff on the N86. Its really very good indeed. Obviously I only used it a few times, but they've done a very nice job on it. Would rate it as one of the best on a phone.

Not absolutely sure what you mean by gallery - but it was a lot smoother overall. You can get ahead of the thumbnail generation (just) - like every other device out there, but it catches up very much more quickly than previous Nokia devices.

Sorry not sure about memory (not enough time to check). It was running 16+ apps quite happily at one point though.

Jowls wrote:A good point actually. Multimedia functions are nice but Symbian has long needed a serious overhaul of its PIM functions, which in a way is the back bone of any phone regardless of target group. My old Palm V is still superior in this respect. I hope Nokia doesnt forget this in their revamp of the OS.

Some of this has been done as I note above, but yet there's probably still room for improvement here. The sad fact is that these functions are used much less than in PDA days (when PIM was most of the point). This is based on usage metrics I've seen in a couple of reports. Calendar always surprises me by being further down than I expect.

---

Phew enough questions answering for now - will check back later.

@gdigenis

You know if you have questions about the software the helpful people of Symbian are on hand to answer any questions. I guess the reasons the bloggers focus on the media capabilities is because they're the ones you need to see for yourself to judge, whereas the software stuff is the sort of thing you can ask people about, or just have them show you.

What do you want to know about Symbian^3? I'd be glad to answer your questions.

Thanks a lot Rafe
if you get a chance to play with one again maybe you can test some everyday usage, just for example put a timer on how long it takes to open a read an email, reply then forward to a 3rd party from your contact list. now that may sound a little basic of a request but in the real world out on the streets of london being able to do something like that quickly with lag is important to me.

I own a desire on Orange and a E71 on O2 and whilst the desire is a great gadget it cannot compare to the Eseries when it come to communications on the move.

PS the calender on Android is horrific to use.

Got a post on some of this for later. I guess one of the reasons people focus on the multimedia as it has the most obvious changes and as a whole is what people have most interest in. That said...

There is a smart dialer (woo-hoo) - similar to the Eseries implementation - this enables quick calling and communication with people. Contacts has also had contacts cards reworked. The search system is, I think, the same as on S60 5.0 (within Contacts). Calendar remains much the same but has a few tweaks. One of which is multiple Calendar support. Sorry I didn't spend more time on these bits, but time was limited.

rafe, thanks for the reply. the addition of a smart dialer is a massive improvement already. i look forward to hearing more from you or steve or ewen as all of you will be some of the few bloggers that would actually pick up the differences in pim functions vs s60 5th ed.

@brendand, thanks for the offer but i think i need to see the differences for myself before deciding if the n8 is something i want to spend money on. if you are able to post videos showing simple things, like finding a random contact from your phone book starting at the homescreen, or creating and saving a new calendar entry, or creating and sending an email and sms message, etc. i would appreciate it. these types of things were the reason i left nokia and symbian and have been very happy with android since. my nexus one is really easy to use and does everything i need it to do and it does it easily. if the n8 can make these types of things easy to do one handed AND be able to take great pics and videos i would consider buying one.

Jowls wrote:A good point actually. Multimedia functions are nice but Symbian has long needed a serious overhaul of its PIM functions, which in a way is the back bone of any phone regardless of target group. My old Palm V is still superior in this respect. I hope Nokia doesnt forget this in their revamp of the OS.

If you are using a third party application like HandyCalendar you have an extraordinary PIM, much better than e. g. the iPhone Calender. I don't know the PALM PIM, but does it support a repeat like:

Every 3 month on last (last, not the 4th) friday?

S60 delivers for normal user a usefull calendar application, which for most people seems to be sufficient. If you want more you must pay for it (or use Python to write your own). When using Microsoft Windows you also must buy (e. g.) Outlook if you want a powerfull PIM.

Peter

Wow.. is that the green or blue? It looks very much like teal though =/

I second (or third) gdigenis. a full walk-through of the 'basic' functions is badly needed.

I can't see any reason for myself to buy this one. Compared to the 5800 I have, I see no reason to fork out 500 quid. Same res screen, smaller battery, limited UI changes, mono speaker etc. It has the camera but I won't be using it so perhaps i'm not target audience for this phone but it just doesn't seem to be a huge step up for me.

Hope Nokia don't cock it up though. I'll be waiting for Symbian 4

Hi, i'm planning to get the white/silver N8. I would like to know whats your impression of the lock switch and the menu button. Does it feels like it would get yellowish after like 1 year+ of use?

germcevoy wrote:I can't see any reason for myself to buy this one. Compared to the 5800 I have, I see no reason to fork out 500 quid. Same res screen, smaller battery, limited UI changes, mono speaker etc. It has the camera but I won't be using it so perhaps i'm not target audience for this phone but it just doesn't seem to be a huge step up for me.

Hope Nokia don't cock it up though. I'll be waiting for Symbian 4

I understand that the expected price is under 400 quid.

I don't understand the "limited UI changes" they look significant changes to me. Mono speaker makes very little difference, but the capacitive screen, improved memory availability and management, display co-processor and bigger display should much more useful than a 5800. Not to mention the camera and video capability.

This sounds quite promising. What can be read from Engaged and other /US) blogs is that the OS is far away from a stable one. What can you say about that ?

Nokia have got to start a service with a computer supplier to help there touch screen mobiles move on,thats the Advantage Samsung an Apple an Htc they have produce software for there laptops an gives them a advantage,to get the touch screen software produced better for its mobiles,Nokia are now under pressure an there sales falling ,something new as got to happen at Nokia to get them back leading the mobile market,hope the N8 does help them but its still needs a big turn around to get them back running again

Unregistered wrote:Wow.. is that the green or blue? It looks very much like teal though =/

Blue.

Unregistered wrote:Hi, i'm planning to get the white/silver N8. I would like to know whats your impression of the lock switch and the menu button. Does it feels like it would get yellowish after like 1 year+ of use?

Hard to say really. It should do well as its anodised aluminium.

germcevoy wrote:I can't see any reason for myself to buy this one. Compared to the 5800 I have, I see no reason to fork out 500 quid. Same res screen, smaller battery, limited UI changes, mono speaker etc. It has the camera but I won't be using it so perhaps i'm not target audience for this phone but it just doesn't seem to be a huge step up for me.

Hope Nokia don't cock it up though. I'll be waiting for Symbian 4

I think they are very different devices. The UI changes look small (and I think that's debateable), but they make a big difference.

rumeo wrote:This sounds quite promising. What can be read from Engaged and other /US) blogs is that the OS is far away from a stable one. What can you say about that ?

This really depends how you define unstable. I was pleasantly surprised with its overall performance compared to earlier Nokia devices tested at a similar stage. You can see from the video the run through was smooth - the reason I did that was so people could judge for themselves. I would say the platform was good, the issues that were present were probably more with incomplete integration (e.g. Ovi Store only went to the web version) than unexplained crashing (which is what I would define as far from stable).

I'd also note the some devices on the day seemed more stable than others. I suspect there's also a familiarity aspect to this. I was able to do a relatively smooth walk through because I familiar with the device. Sluggish and slowness can sometimes be just as much down to the operator (and/or their perceptions).

Until it is in retail form you can not make a final judgements.

Unregistered wrote:This phone is already dead on the water.
Can you imagine Apple showing off a device with half-baked software?
To choose this over a Nexus or Desire you have to be a Fanboy or insane, probably both.

Another Apple Fanboy, talking about half-baked software?? ---- Dood... read this

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/06/15/goatse-security-the-ipad-simply-is-not-a-safe-platform-for-those-that-require-a-secure-environment/

There are severe issues in the Software, that apple will take loads of time to fix...

Nokia is just being honest unlike Apple...

Rafe,

Considering the Name of the device (N8) and the leaked news that the N9 will be a Meego device, would it be safe to say that this device will be Nokia's highest end Symbian^3 device?

What do you think?

Thanks,

Ash

ashg77 wrote:Rafe,

Considering the Name of the device (N8) and the leaked news that the N9 will be a Meego device, would it be safe to say that this device will be Nokia's highest end Symbian^3 device?

What do you think?

Thanks,

Ash

Without commenting on any specific leaks....

I think that's probably a too narrow way of looking at the N8. Maybe better say it will be one of Nokia's highest end Symbian^3 devices. The main focus is in imaging - I would expect other Symbian^3 devices which, while they may not match the camera, may be high-end in other areas. I think an obvious area to look at would be a QWERTY equipped device - that might be considered similar to the N8... See relation between say N82 and N95... or N86 and N97.

Looks like Nokia got a winner. The N8 is simply neat. I guess the N9 would be great too.

Rafe wrote:Hard to say really. It should do well as its anodised aluminium.

Cool~! Didn't know the lockswitch is made out of aluminum as well. Thanks Rafe =D

One more thing.. Does the plastics at the top and the bottom feels like it would get stained yellowish too? XD

Rafe, any novelties in Conctacs/Phonebook? I've been looking a lot of images from variuos sources and I couldn't help noticed many of them show not so perfect blend between plastic top/bottom parts and the body, eg. you can see uneven gaps here and there. Can you comment on this please? How does keypad feel? Is it large/comfortable enough for typing? What about Camera menu itself, any improvements/novelties there? Does Camera remember your last settings or it's "here we go again" upon Camera exit/enter? One last question (for this session 😊) how far pinch-to-zoom goes on image, is it up to 100% zoom, or more?

Cheers,
Miki

Its a nice looking phone, making me wonder if perhaps I'll try Nokia again.

The one thing which will be a deciding factor for me is whether it will have OTA updates or not... I refuse to use a PC to make updates again.

Mva
Oslo

germcevoy wrote:I can't see any reason for myself to buy this one. Compared to the 5800 I have, I see no reason to fork out 500 quid. Same res screen, smaller battery, limited UI changes, mono speaker etc. It has the camera but I won't be using it so perhaps i'm not target audience for this phone but it just doesn't seem to be a huge step up for me.

Hope Nokia don't cock it up though. I'll be waiting for Symbian 4

So you missed the quoted price - 370 euros, or about �300. Thats the SIM free price, not on contract or payg.

Same res screen, but much higher quality. Multi touch - so it'll actually be usable as a gaming platform (which is not the case with the 5800 - games are useless). A camera thats actually quite good (as opposed to the 5800 camera which is basically naff - I did have one for a while).

Mono speaker? Since when were stereo speakers in a phone any good? Since about, er, never?

370 EUR before taxes and subsidies. Price should be same as N86 when introduced (375 EUR + taxes and subsidies, about 500 EUR in stores upon release), Play offers it (N8) for 499 pounds!

clonmult wrote:Mono speaker? Since when were stereo speakers in a phone any good? Since about, er, never?

Cheers,
Miki

Actually the HDMI port outputs 1080p, not 720p. The camera records in 720p but if you have a higher definition video on the device you will get 1080p with Dolby DTS through the HDMI port.

Hi. I am new here but have been reading the site for some time now.
I have some questions about the N8:

1. Does N8's email client have HTML email?

2. I have a Nokia E63 and I had substantial trouble connecting to a WPA2-PEAP connection, though I did figure it out after googling a bit. Any idea if Symbian^3 simplifies wifi setup, in particular WPA2-PEAP?

3. One thing I am very confused about, is whether the apps written for S60v5 work on Symbian^3. I mean, is it backwards compatible? I am particularly interested in apps like Skype, Google Maps and Fring. These all work on both S60v3 and S60v5.