Symbian flagship: i8910 HD, Satio, Nokia N8 vs Apple iPhone 4 and HTC Desire

Nice comparison Steve. But I don't see how you can put comments like 'Superb', 'great', 'amazing' for the N8 features when (AFAIK) you have handled the phone just once and even that on the pre-production firmware.

Apologies if my assumption is wrong.

Finally I've found one negative in N8, a mono speaker. Its not really a deal breaker though.

and the amazing flagship n97?

malerocks wrote:Nice comparison Steve. But I don't see how you can put comments like 'Superb', 'great', 'amazing' for the N8 features when (AFAIK) you have handled the phone just once and even that on the pre-production firmware.

Apologies if my assumption is wrong.

Steve can say these things very easily and with authority I reckon. He's seen the N8 spec sheet, and then he's tried the device out enough to see if there's anything obviously different from the specs - i.e. even a quick play with the handset can give a great impression of the UI speed, camera quality and so on. Not enough to do a full comprehensive review sure, but enough to be able to use the superlatives the N8 deserves.

The web is dripping with professional reviewers who've never seen an iPhone 4, or a particular Android phone, and yet don't hold back from liberally spraying praise all over these devices. At least Steve (and Rafe) have played with the N8, and what's more it's only going to improve.

> Apologies if my assumption is wrong
Time to apologise 😊 We never see comments from you that do not have some biased anti-Nokia slant. Isn't it about time you forked out many hundreds of pounds for and iPhone or Android device and found peace at last? 😊

Hardeep1singh wrote:Finally I've found one negative in N8, a mono speaker. Its not really a deal breaker though.

Thats about the only possible negative so far, and I've yet to hear stereo speakers on a mobile that gave anything more than a vaguely interesting effect - you'll never get true stereo separation when the speakers are a few inches apart.

What is the difference with the second generation screen of N8 and does it use the pentile matrix?

Steve: Excellent review but I would not give Nokia the lead for processor (CPU/GPU). That should go either to iPhone 4's A4 w/integrated CPU(ARM Cortex A9?) and GPU...or HTC Desire's Snapdragon w/out GPU. Yes, the N8 GPU co-processor is best in class, but it's right-sized ARM 11Mhz is good but not great. I think it's a smart move by Nokia, don't get me wrong. The right balance for performance/power consumption and a solid platform...but it cannot be a +1 for the N8. IMO its +1 for iPhone 4.

I think there should be a separate category for gaming. Here. Apple should take it with its Gyro plus quantity/quality of games. N8 a close second based on hardware.

Pricing was a bit of a surprise to me too. I thought the N8 basis was estimated at Euro 370 (~ GBP 307.25) pre-tax/pre-subsidy...why buy it in the UK if it's priced at GBP 399? Another +1 for N8 IMO.

So, I get +7 for N8, +6 for Iphone 4 and the rest the same.

JMO.

PS: Why SAMSUNG i8910 HD and not the Galaxy S? I think the Galaxy would take +1 away from iPhone 4 with its Super AMOLED.

These sorts of comparisons are meaningless as the specs are mostly not comparable which leads to subjective assessments like the 12 mp camera sensor over the 5mp one even when the camera industry is moving away from just packing more and more pixels on small sensors due to the issue with increasing digital noise (and anyway how many people print larger than A4 which a 5mp camera is more than capable of doing), the N8 winning a point for video playback due to the HDMI out even though it only has the low res YouTube, or the N8 winning on the updates due to "true" OTA, etc...

In the end the only real comparison is that of the user experience on the final products as a fancy 12mp sensor is useless if the software is rubbish, difficult to use, and keeps crashing all of the time. I hope this is not the case with the N8 and that Nokia will finally start releasing devices that have release ready firmware but after being stung by the N97 debacle I'm not holding my breath.

I would not say that iPhone 4 has "on-board video editing", since the iMovie software is not provided out of the box, but must be purchased from App Store at $ 4.99.

Processors are a very difficult to judge because they do not perform the same between platforms/ devices. Symbian is less resource intensive (can do more with less). Therefore comparing Mhz etc means very little.

Steve was considering things in general sense with multi-tasking etc and trade off between power and performance (so actually I think +1 for doing the right thing, not the spec thing). Interestingly some of the early generic benchmarks suggest the N8's processor outperforms the Cortex A8 equipped i8910 (and others). But yes any of these categories and 'wins' can be argued - part of the fun 😊

The pricing estimate is conservative, and clearly will go down over time.

And yes you could add in extra categories - gaming is a good thought... but what you include is necessarily subjective. And of course what one-on-one comparisons tend to do is under estimate the multiple device choice advantage of both Symbian and Android.

Market momentum is also another intangible that's difficult to measure, but is important to a phone's success. The iPhone 4 pre-sale sold out yesterday in the US, so clearly users see iPhone 4 as a worthy upgrade to existing iPhones. Will the N8 be compelling enough to attract switchers? Will N97/N95 owners be content to wait for the N8, or will they jump to iPhone 4 or Android devices?

I'll also point out that Android 2.2 is being distributed OTA, so that seems on par with what Nokia is doing with OTA updates.

I have been a Nokia N82 user over the past 2 years. By considering TCO (total cost of ownership = how much you spend afterwards on programs you buy for your phone, maintenance, etc) and ecosistem strength (which translates into phone added features, total lifecycle of the phone and second-hand resale price) I will surely buy an Iphone 4. You might say Nokia is better and cheaper, but not when compared to a jailbroken Iphone.

With Pricing, doesnt the fact that the iPhone does not receive any operator subsidy, while all the others would be available for free on a monthly contract worthy of note?

Unregistered wrote:Time to apologise 😊 We never see comments from you that do not have some biased anti-Nokia slant. Isn't it about time you forked out many hundreds of pounds for and iPhone or Android device and found peace at last? 😊

I am a hardcore Nokia user and they have been my handsets of choice for the last 5 years. I am currently on a n97mini and am very satisfied with it (contrary to what some people say about it on the net). I always thought my comments very unbiased and usually when i comment its out of curiosity or to clarify somebody's doubts. But I guess I was wrong.

one good point is that steve jobs in his presentation did compared iphone4 os with android , rim but he didnt mentioned symbian but he simply said others and he knows nokia and its pet need not to be cared with the horrific mistake done with n97 nokia will never make to the top three thats for sure

please dont hype the crap phones , as we have done previously with flahship n97

As much as I want to fall in love with the N8 (and will probably still get one when the time comes), i'm not sure that Nokia have done enough to push the phone forward and better it's rivals, or it's predecessors.

eg. comparing it to my 5800- Symbian 3 doesn't seem that far from 1, input mechanisms are the same, similar display size and pixel count, interface mostly the same (but not a bad thing), C drive still not big enough, already have Ovi Maps, browser same other than adition of Flash, less impressive speaker, battery smaller capacity on N8 (really?!)..........

Now, I love Symbian as it's (fairly) efficient and a degree of familiarity will be nice, but the question is- have Nokia done enough?

Only time will tell.

"Android 2.2 is being distributed OTA"

Nope. Not on the HTC Desire. You're thinking of the Nexus One etc. HTC replace the whole ROM and wipe the device for major version updates.

"I would not say that iPhone 4 has "on-board video editing"

As I understand it, there's basic merge/cut editing built-in. And iMovie in the store if you want more.

A good roundup, as always by Steve. I would be very interested in hearing about the initial thoughts Steve and Rafe have on the second-gen AMOLED screen of the N8 in comparison to the AMOLED in the i8910 and the new Super AMOLED in the Samsung Wave / Galaxy S. I am very tempted to go for an N8 to upgrade my i8910, but I am a little worried that the screen will be a slight disappointment. It is a shame that the display isn't a little larger - a 3.7" display looks like it could have been fitted with a little rejigging!

froschy wrote:These sorts of comparisons are meaningless as the specs are mostly not comparable which leads to subjective assessments like the 12 mp camera sensor over the 5mp one even when the camera industry is moving away from just packing more and more pixels on small sensors due to the issue with increasing digital noise (and anyway how many people print larger than A4 which a 5mp camera is more than capable of doing),

The point with the N8 is that Nokia have decided to use a larger sensor size to reduce the digital noise issue. And the point about printing bigger than A4 is crap because the lenses on phones are all fixed wide angle, the only way to get decent zoom is to have more MP and crop sections, you could do more with more detail - which all early accounts and samples are suggesting the N8 gives. To suggest "how many print larger than A4" is simplistic, it's not the whole image that people will necessarily print.

sarcen wrote:With Pricing, doesnt the fact that the iPhone does not receive any operator subsidy, while all the others would be available for free on a monthly contract worthy of note?

All the phones including the iPhone will be available with sudsidies, all will be available free on a monthly contract. The prices count very badly against the iPhone.

Surely a feature when shelling out hundreds of pounds for a phone should be the ability to update the OS (not minor service packs).

You can (generally) upgrade Android.

You can (generally) go to the latest version of iPhone OS (for a price sometimes).

But Nokia have no history and there has been no mention of upgrades to the next major release of Symbian (E71 couldn't go to S60 3.2, N97 can't go to Symbian^3, etc).

Top end smartphones (in my opinion) have become too expensive to expect users to upgrade their phone every 12 months, and most subsidised phones are now on 18-24 month contracts. I hate to say it, but if I was paying for one of these phones, I'd be looking for one that could still be running the latest software in 2+ years time, and that's not Nokia.

steve your satio has a 1500mAh battery? cool!
you have pre-production N8 or pictures are from yesterday visit in london?

Unregistered wrote:The point with the N8 is that Nokia have decided to use a larger sensor size to reduce the digital noise issue. And the point about printing bigger than A4 is crap because the lenses on phones are all fixed wide angle, the only way to get decent zoom is to have more MP and crop sections, you could do more with more detail - which all early accounts and samples are suggesting the N8 gives. To suggest "how many print larger than A4" is simplistic, it's not the whole image that people will necessarily print.

@ Unregistered (if that's really your name! Jks, lol) - My point still stands that as with my other examples, awarding the N8 the win based on mp is subjective and anyway even if the sensor is bigger I would be surprised if it's bigger than the sensor in a dedicated compact camera like the latest flagship Canon IXUS which has 10mp sensor because Canon have realized that mp aren't everything when it comes to image quality and trying to cram more and more on a sensor results in digital noise.

give me some good reasons why I should replace my N97Mini with any of these. Apart from to give good money after bad...

@paker: Blush. Sorry, a copy and paste typo. Now fixing :redface:

Steve, a comparison of the handsets would really have been enough to get you a gold star for an excellent piece.

However, choosing to score each phone, especially considering two of the handsets are not even out yet is like throwing a live grenade into a pit of snakes when it comes to provoking a reaction.

I'll declare that for the first time since the N95, a Nokia handset has been excited. I've seen the videos, I've read the specs and yes, it's looking good, very good. But excitement is all it is... you don't know a phone until the real thing is in your hands, and how you can rate a phone before it has been released, 'as-is' off the production line, is beyond me. Understood, you've played with prototypes and 'nearly ready' firmware in the case of the N8. But it is still not the real thing, is it? And as for the iPhone 4... hasn't Tim (Salmon)'s feedback on iOS4 given you pause for thought?

You don't need to be told that a phone is far more that the sum of its parts. The feature list is not going to define your user experience with that handset (god I feel dirty saying that). But that experience is ultimately what it is all about, especially if you are keeping scores?

I could cough and say 'bias' and 'N97 debacle' but we've been there, done that and got the T-shirt. I know everyone is dying to see a worthy high-end Symbian handset out there kicking arse. But until the actual N8 'as is' is released into the wild (nevermind the iPhone 4), please, I emplore you, just wait before making these 'top trump' comparisons. If the N8 turned out to be a dog... well, what would you think?

It wasn't a proper scoring, or even a rating - I was simply saving readers adding up the blue boxes for themselves 8-)

I *absolutely* understand that it's too early to pass judgement on either iPhone 4 or N8, but hey, it's always interesting to match devices up and see the way the land might lie.... I also wanted to demonstrate (yet again) how comparable the i8910 HD is with devices launched a year after it.... 8-)

@feersumenjinn, there is only one good reason for buying any of these phones ! Because you want one !!!!! Nobody has to buy a mobile phone, people buy them (top end handsets anyway) because they want them. Pick a phone you like, that will do what you want it to do, and that's your 'good reason' 😊