In all the talk of user interfaces, promises, updated software and hardware, there is one other area that Nokia need to look at. Making the Nokia name one that everyone is the world is happy to be associated with. How can they do that? Here are some thoughts.
Read on in the full article.
Dear Nokia,
Please announce that the phone will be upgradeable to Symbian^4. N8's acceptability would just double.
-Users
Hardeep1singh wrote:Dear Nokia,
Please announce that the phone will be upgradeable to Symbian^4. N8's acceptability would just double.
-Users
Cant agree more with this words!! :icon14:
I agree - Nokia has to do some better marketing (or really any marketing in the US), but what I need to be convinced is to hear that it's going to be truly open and upgradable. The marketplace is swirling out of control with new innovations and especially a device with decent specs it should be upgradable enough that you can hang onto it for a while. Nokia has gotten out some good updates to older phones, but they aren't really feature complete. On top of that my experience with the n770 was horrible - Nokia entirely dropped support as soon as they released the n800.
For the broader public, however, they need to convince people that you can use apps on the phone that are either the same or functionally similar to the apps on the iphone or android. Focus on some cross platform here (with QT) and get a killer app that causes people to take notice.
Nokia under alot of pressure losing out in the Top Smartphones,an the Symbian Software,they have got to stop people getting hold of there prototypes they have for future mobiles,just look at the Future N8,Eldar at mobile-review.com got hold of the prototype an really started downgrading the N8 before it was even ready for production,an now look at the N8 ,Nokia know now this mobile better not go down the same route as the N97 an be full of buggy software so taking Ages to get the N8 released,Nokia have got to Stop using Plastic on the Top End Mobiles,the N8 in metal will be the right idea,because the phones value will not decline fast,thats another reason Samsung phones look better Value more metal bodies that attract buyers,but the Plastic phones at Nokia look to Cheap an Stratch an Mark Easily,i hope now after the N8 all the future phones will be in Metal
Has Nokia ever been 'cool'? Certainly the 'Matrix' phone and N95 have captured that 'cool' factor but even then, as a brand, has Nokia ever been 'cool'? For that matter, is or has any phone manufacturer 'cool'?
Many manufacturers have had cool handsets (e.g. Motorola RZR) at one time or another and let's not skirt around this - this is nothing about Nokia being cool and people being happy to be associated with Nokia. This is about how Apple is considered cool and Nokia is not.
For anyone that has long stopped popping spots or watching Hollyoaks, have you ever bought your mobile based on how kewl the brand was?
If Nokia rolled out the equivalent of a N95 for 2010 - something of true technological dynamite, and backed it up with some half decent marketing and PR, then they'd have a cool handset. And people would start buzzing more about Nokia. Heck, the spot-poppers and Hollyoaks watchers might even start buying them. As a corollary, Nokia may attain some measure of cool.
But that's where they have failed since 2007:
I say bollocks to cool brands. To paraphrase Gordon Brown "it's the product, stupid". Cool products that Nokia needs. End of.
Nokia never really needed great marketing in the past to sell their devices. E.g. you guys across the pond keep saying that they sucked at marketing in the US, but believe me, at one time they were selling just as well as qualcomm and motorola, way before the likes of Palm, Samsung,LG came along. At the end, the marketing results really comes down to the marketing performance of the retailers, and they're not idiots. They know which ones will cause less troublesome customer support since they're front line, and will push the trouble-free phones first. Nokia's huge problem is that they haven't given a polished product in ages, and fanboys keep making excuses up for them. BTW, didn't you UK retailers had the N97 and Satio withdrawn due to high return rates at one point last year?
Here's my history and the downhill results to demonstrate their total carelessness:
- 2005: 6630 in UK, completely trouble free device, not one single crash, quirky design, but it stood out 😉
- 2006: N70 in UK, some small hiccups, but a great phone overall. crappy lens slide cover, but it worked
- 2007: N95-3, great hardware overall and build quality, but I had to wait ages to get demand paging and a more tightened core
- 2009: N97-NAM. Wow so many frustrated nights, it's horrible. But I need not say another word. There are plenty of nightmare stories repeated all over the Web. And the build quality completely went south from the N95. It's "stable" now, but wow, it's like living with your ex-spouse
- 2010: E72-2. My wife has no dealbreaker problems YET, but she's a simple user, so she won't stress it. But it still crashed once, and built-in Smart Connect needed a patch. And I can't even imagine what the experience would've been like if I bought it earlier, on beta quality FW. Build quality is also alot worse than the E71.
My next S60 phone now? The E71. Yeah, a step backwards, but that's because they got it right back at S60v3.1! So sad of Nokia! And it's so funny that they still sell E71 right next to E72, but they don't sell N95s anymore. And no, not the E5-00, because of the lack of front camera. Ironic they should do this, right when their competitors have finally started to figure out how to sell video conferencing to the public. And also they still try to squeeze both mini-pin and micro-usb charging, wasting tons of HW space. And no, not the N8, especially since they got rid of the KB, even though most ppl actually LIKED having a keyboard on the N97 mini. All of this just shows the schizophrenic nature that still exists at Nokia. One step forward, two steps back for them once again.....
My experience, on this board though, kinda shows why Nokia THOUGHT they could get away with it - so many frustrating fanboys keep saying that it's ok for Nokia to come up with poorly developed FW and HW, then just let loyal customers wait and deal with it. Why should customers that pay SO MUCH MONEY wait while having a frustrating experience. N95-3 was frustrating first, but at least I had faith because the HW had given the OS enough breathing room for error. Regardless of FW problems though, at least it still functioned properly as phone. The N97 was a complete shamble as phone, as many times it would crash on a phone session, completely frustrating the user. It might be easier to get away with the phone crashing when using secondary functions like MP3 player or browser, but having phone functions crash really sucks. And E72 completely maxed out RAM, rendering it useful only for the low to mid-range market. Significant FW improvements are not very likely, since it just seems that Nokia never figured out how to reduce memory footprint on any S60v3.2/S60v5 device and instead has decided to start increasing RAM on future devices, effectively declaring this battle as finished.
So what does Nokia really have to do at the end you may ask - prove to retailers and disillusioned customers that they won't repeat the same fundamental mistakes they have done in the past ever again, and show they have focused on a smaller set of quality products. Also, Nokia didn't need that much marketing to reach ppl in the past. Word of mouth spreads surprisingly quickly, good and bad. In order words - EXECUTE YOUR PRODUCT DEV PLANS PROPERLY AND CLEANLY!!!
-Gene
One of the things Nokia should learn to do, is react like Steve Jobs did today, one week after the "iPhone antennagate" he faced his customers and media and, in its way, acknowledged the problem and proposed some (even silly) solution.
I�ve been a Nokia user since the glorious times of the N95, when I could proudly produce my phone in the face of people that stared at it amazed.
My last year with the N97, and a should-be-shame company hiding behind denials of bad designed, worse built and even worse supported smartphones is a long road for Nokia to ride back.
My next smartphone definitively wont�t be a Nokia.
Perhaps, (and only perhaps) in a few months/years, if the N8 is a complete success, I'll be looking after the Symbian^5/^6 Nokia N9.
But I won�t bet a dime on it. They already took a lot of my money and returned nothing but unsatisfaction back.
Alberto
Folks,
I have been through all of the firmware updates for the N97 NAM.
I have lost count of the number of times I have had to hard reset and rebuild the phone from scratch.
I have had two handsets as well.
I supposedly am on one of the advance teams where I am to see new hardware and test it before it goes to the Generally Available status. Yet to hear from Nokia when or if I will ever see one of the new handsets.
I blog for Nokia, I tweet for Nokia, I facebook for Nokia as well as Buzz for Nokia.
Yet they seem to be like the American Government. Completely TONE DEAF!!!
Read My Lips. Learn to LISTEN to the Customer. Test, Test and Test again BEFORE giving it to the General Public.
Get Developers on-board BEFORE you start new handsets.
QT sounds like a promising adventure.
Ovi is improving.
But Ovi Customer Service needs Major Improvement. Plus English as a First Language Service Persons.
^ whatever. Give me a break. Gimmick that did not and does not work. Why not just V1, V2 or V3 and be done with it. Cute gets it when people are looking and listening. The past few miscues have turned the public Tone Deaf to Nokia's announcements as Nokia was tone deaf to us.
When Nokia starts listening again, executing again and doing what they have been known to do and do it extremely well, then I may consider spending hard earned money on their products again.
However, I am beginning to see it as a Android World out there.
Have used Palms since the pilot days. Had Nokia's before that. Returned to Nokia as the Palm OS was abandoned for WebOS and me along with it. Had quite a collection of software too. And it just worked. Batteries were the worst consideration for those.
N97. Can not say enough about it. One thing at a time. Great. Multitasking and it craps the bed. Memory handling ridiculous.
Even when we talk directly to Nokia they are Tone Deaf.
The Discussion Groups do not even get direct comments often from Nokia Support People. You see it only once in a blue moon....
Beta soft gets better responses. But just....
Respond, let us know you heard us, then execute on what you say you are going to do.
As Picard would say. Make It So!!!
Hardeep1singh wrote:Dear Nokia,
Please announce that the phone will be upgradeable to Symbian^4. N8's acceptability would just double.
-Users
So True. Why put out a handset that is obsolete before it rolls out the door?
Unregistered wrote:So True. Why put out a handset that is obsolete before it rolls out the door?
They did this with the N97 as well, selling as a flagship that had specs superior to the iPhone 3G, only to be completely leaped over by the iPhone 3GS. But at least it's more reasonably priced, theoretically.
-Gene
You know what?
For me Nokia was always synonymous to "reliable", "rock solid", "no-nonsense".
I've never actually considered Nokia to be cool. I still think those three would suffice. If they go for being cool (your recipe might be ok but "coolness" is a difficult thing to define, let alone accomplish) it's ok, but I think they should focus on providing devices and services that speak for themselves. Of course backing them up with proper marketing and PR is obligatory. But they should be very carefull with that "coolness". If they follow AAS thinking that PR could actually be more important than "the real thing" and Nokia will continue to deliver sub-par devices/software/services then all this forced coolness will become absolutely unimportant. And it will backfire at them. It's difficult to plan being cool.
I remember my professor saying something like that: "When you start a new drawing you should stop thinking this will be a masterpiece. You should spare no effort to do the best job you can instead. And when your work is done it will become apparent if it actually is a masterpiece." Nokia should focus on delivering a reliable product first and foremost. Achieving status of being cool might be to much for them. One thing at a time.
Hardeep1singh wrote:Dear Nokia,
Please announce that the phone will be upgradeable to Symbian^4. N8's acceptability would just double.
-Users
+1,000,000
I concur.
Nobody likes buying into a dead platform (see, Windows Mobile 6.5).
Now, you may argue that only tech nerds will know or care what OS a cell phone/gadget runs, but it's these same tech nerds who will evangelize your device. A happy customer will talk up his gadget to 2 or 3 other people, who will tell 3 of their friends, who'll talk up the phone to an equal number of THEIR friends, etc. etc.
This is how you build 'buzz', often associated with surprise hit products and movies.
Nokia need to bring out the n95 of 2010/11.
My history has been:
Nokia 6630 - Loved the phone which was great at the time
Nokia N73 - Again loved the phone with its nice screen
Nokia N95 - Best phone I've had. At the time it was the best and could do anything you wanted it to.
HTC touch Diamond - Loved the phone. Wanted a change from symbian and got it with a ton of eye candy and great multi tasking. The only handset that nokia had at the time which was better was the n96, but it wasn't really an upgrade from the n95.
Nokia N97 - loved the keyboard and screen tilt but thats about it. Had a ton of software issues like everybody else and had issues with the build quality.
My next handset - Not a Nokia. Im not impressed by the N8(its hardware spec looks good but I want a nice interface full of eye candy). They've also let me down with the n97 and it will take the N95 of the future to get me back into their books!
Android looks like the way to go😊 The HTC Desire or Desire HD has good build quality, actually works as advertised and gets a ton of updates from Android.
I also do not understand why Nokia is releasing the N8 as the last N series device with Symbian on it. That says to me that Nokia aren't gonna support it after it comes out going by their past.
Android users are heading for the same problems Nokia users currently have when Android 3.0 comes it WONT work on all devices. Therefore creating the same fragmentation effect.
Everyone want the latest OS version but give no consideration to how it will effect the underlying hardware on their device, take the hero as a good example. ppl cried for the 2.1 update, they got it after along wait and the phone is now sluggish, usable but sluggish none the less.
Take Apple in the same context as Game console manufacturers, the hardware remains stable therefore the software can be easily developed as it only has to fit one hardware scenario. Android, Bada, Symbian, Meego etc. don't have this luxury, there will always be a point when older hardware will simply not run a feature. We see it every day with PC's, did you get a free update to Windows 7?
Will the N8 be upgradeable to Symbian^4? I don't know but I wouldn't hold my breath. Symbian 4 introduces a further improved Hardware Abstraction Interface. It breaks compatibility with older apps with the move to solely QT. How do you think people will react if the update to Symbian^4 is put over the air and they suddenly find half their favourite apps wont work?
Smartphones are basically computers these days, I don't expect to get free updates to the next Windows OS, should I really expect a free update for a phones OS, personally I say no.
Symbian^3 addresses most of the fundamental flaws with Symbian^1 don't be so quick to dismiss it for Symbian^4 as there is alot more in Symbian^3 than people realise I think.
Just in answer to all the questions about whether the N8 will get an upgrade to Symbian^4 as and when the latter is ready, there's no technical reason why it shouldn't be possible, as far as we know.
Whether Nokia choose to offer this is another matter. It would really only appeal to geeks, to be honest - the mass market users would be horribly confused by an upgrade to their handset that totally changed the interface. I know my wife, for example, would. What users want is more stability and faster, smoother operation using the interface they've already got to know.
Whereas geeks (like us) love tinkering, changing and transmogrifying! 8-)
I laughed when Anssi said Nokia want to win the Guru back, cos it occured to me that there is NO indication that anyone at Nokia ever read his, or any other, blog.
They don't read this one. If they did then every Nokia handset since the N82 would have had a xenon flash and oodles of ram and internal memory, etc.
Then there's the problem of the fractured nature of Nokia. The one hand has no clue of what the other hand is doing. What's good marketing when R+D's completely crap, etc, etc?
Like the Guru, I'll give them the chance to produce two PERFECT flagships. They have everything that it takes to do this. In the meantime, for me, they're going the way of the Dodo.
@morpheus2702
My friend, do you never leave your house? You're sounding like one of those nerds with the checkered jacket and horn rimmed glasses that thinks cool is the book on quantum physics that you're reading. 😊
Haven't you seen how cool iPhone makes people?
Wow lucky escape, just bought one and now I'm cool, I'm super kewl.
Posted from my iPhone, beating them off with a s****y stick
I think that the N8 has fantastic hardware and the UI looks responsive. The problem is that even though the UI has improved it still looks like what we have seen on many Nokias before. Had we never seen the Apple iPhone with its UI the N8 would be perceived far better. All it needs is a new font and that would have superficial people going "ooh that looks nice!"
I think the only way this phone will get a really amazing to look at UI is if/when SPB Mobile Shell becomes available for the N8.
i'm not gonna delude myself and think i know whats cool cause i am clearly too old.
In London Orange and T mobile will sell you a Blackberry curve on pay as you go for �140, its every where from 12 year olds to 21 year olds school kids on the bus have this cheap plastic blackberry its kewl. Now not one of us on here would consider that remotely a cool device but it is.
The N95 was cool every body wanted one and it was expensive, i don't think Nokia can invent cool it just happens, just release some rock solid devices rebuild their reputation for durability and reliabilty and go from there a cheap device can be cool too.
Agreed, to all those that say Nokia should focus on producing rock solid devices and let the cool follow otherwise I think they will make the same mistakes as they did with the N97 where they hyped it through marketing but failed to deliver on their hype.
As for UI, I think people wrongly attribute the success of the iPhone UI to eye candy when it's really due to the ease of use of all the functions. This is an area that Symbian really lags behind in and I hope S^3 goes a long way to fixing this.
Jimmy1 wrote:+1,000,000I concur.
Nobody likes buying into a dead platform (see, Windows Mobile 6.5).
.
HTC sold loads of those enormous pro 2 things with WM6.5 on. Most people just don't car about versions and fragmentation and donut and 1.6 and 2.2 and 3.0 and ^3^4 and all that geekdom. The niche minorities that come to places like this (Steve brilliantly coined the phrase "geek channels"😉 are insignificant and what we want doesn't really matter a jot.
A few thousand boring techy-geeks does not a market make.
"HTC sold loads of those enormous pro 2 things with WM6.5 on. Most people just don't car about versions and fragmentation and donut and 1.6 and 2.2 and 3.0 and ^3^4 and all that geekdom. The niche minorities that come to places like this (Steve brilliantly coined the phrase "geek channels"😉 are insignificant and what we want doesn't really matter a jot.
A few thousand boring techy-geeks does not a market make."
Utter rubbish, my mums just updated her iPhone to 4.0.1 OS. In fact she told ME about it. Her phone before this was a Nokia 6500 "Slide". She didn't even know how to txt on it before.
iPhone 4! Here I come!
Ballz wrote:"Utter rubbish, my mums just updated her iPhone to 4.0.1 OS. In fact she told ME about it. Her phone before this was a Nokia 6500 "Slide". She didn't even know how to txt on it before.
iPhone 4! Here I come!
Total crap. What's an iPhone got to do with the HTC pro thing? When you plug an iPhone into iTunes it tells you to upgrade if you need to.
I always try and hide my iPhone when I use it, because it is defintely NOT cool. It's earned that cheesy twat image.
Mr. Spence, your post on the N8 and potential steps that Nokia can take to "get it back" reminds me of my most recent post which makes recommendations over what Nokia should consider doing to captivate U.S. customers
http://mobilelust.blogspot.com/2010/06/nokia-n8-to-date.html
I remember when Nokia phones were pretty popular in the U.S. - around the time that I had the 5120. I bought additional faceplates to personalize it and the faceplates were sold at Target! Those phones and similar models seemed to frequently pop up in a movies, too.
Dazzy wrote:Will the N8 be upgradeable to Symbian^4? I don't know but I wouldn't hold my breath. Symbian 4 introduces a further improved Hardware Abstraction Interface. It breaks compatibility with older apps with the move to solely QT. How do you think people will react if the update to Symbian^4 is put over the air and they suddenly find half their favourite apps wont work?
Smartphones are basically computers these days, I don't expect to get free updates to the next Windows OS, should I really expect a free update for a phones OS, personally I say no.
Who says it needs to be free and OTA? At least say there is an option to upgrade to Symbian^4. OTOH, Microsoft usually does make the next version of its software free shortly before the new version comes out. If you purchased a Vista PC this time last year, you got a free update to Windows 7. Nokia is already talking about Symbian^4 even before the first Symbian^3 device is out there. Why not make it free, albeit optional?
No one seems to complain when Apple makes significant OS updates available.
Dazzy wrote:
Symbian^3 addresses most of the fundamental flaws with Symbian^1 don't be so quick to dismiss it for Symbian^4 as there is alot more in Symbian^3 than people realise I think.
It addresses flaws but doesn't really change the UI, if the Intomobile review is accurate. "This phone isn't as bad as the N97' isn't exactly a strong marketing push. Everyone knows S^3 is just a stopgap. Make S^4 available, since that's the real future.
slitchfield wrote:Just in answer to all the questions about whether the N8 will get an upgrade to Symbian^4 as and when the latter is ready, there's no technical reason why it shouldn't be possible, as far as we know.Whether Nokia choose to offer this is another matter. It would really only appeal to geeks, to be honest - the mass market users would be horribly confused by an upgrade to their handset that totally changed the interface. I know my wife, for example, would. What users want is more stability and faster, smoother operation using the interface they've already got to know.
Whereas geeks (like us) love tinkering, changing and transmogrifying! 8-)
sigh..... it would only matter to geeks? iOS3->4 was not a real quantum leap on the UI! My wife easily handled that transition on her ipod and i'd think you should give your better half more credit on this as well. It depends on how cleanly is the transition. I would NOT make up excuses for bad transitions, which was basically s60v3 to s60v5. Transitioning to a new interface is just as much part of os improvement exercise as stabilizing and simplifying. As for s3 to s4, what are the HW requirements? S60v3 to v5 technically only required a touch screen upgrade, but we've all seen how that's really turning out in nokia's portfolio....
-Gene
Unregistered wrote:sigh..... it would only matter to geeks? iOS3->4 was not a real quantum leap on the UI! My wife easily handled that transition on her ipod and i'd think you should give your better half more credit on this as well. It depends on how cleanly is the transition. I would NOT make up excuses for bad transitions, which was basically s60v3 to s60v5. Transitioning to a new interface is just as much part of os improvement exercise as stabilizing and simplifying. As for s3 to s4, what are the HW requirements? S60v3 to v5 technically only required a touch screen upgrade, but we've all seen how that's really turning out in nokia's portfolio....
-Gene
From what I can gather Symbian 3 offers things similar to other touchscreens, one tap, pinch to zoom etc. But it seems to put people off because it just looks old and like Symbian looks now. I honestly think that if the N8 launched and what was onscreen had a different font, icons, calculator and calendar but with the exact same functionality more people would be saying "wow that looks great!"
The first impression is made with the eyes. I can see that the N8 UI looks great, but some of my friends look at and say it isn't snazzy enough and that is just based on the icons/transitions etc.