The sadly flawed Symbian world top-end line-up - looking to the N8

Why is still everybody talking about those 1990's drive layout with z:, c:, f: etc.?
I'd expect the future telephone (N8, Nx) to have one internal memory (e.g. 8GB) for apps, media, and all the other stuff - no one needs drives in a mobile phone.

I can't agree with your opinion of the N8. The unprotected camera lens shouldn't be a problem. That of my communicator is also unprotected and still fine after nearly 3 years.

The N8 has one design flaw, which makes it absolutely unacceptable:

I want a real high end smartphone as available e. g. with Android or WinMobile OS (e. g. Samsung Galaxy S or HTC TouchPro II). This means:

Display with at least 3,7" and a resolution of at least 800x480.

Even my Communicator has a resolution of 800x352 which is fine if you are browsing web sites (like this forum), as there is no need to scroll horizontally.

Why should I buy a new Symbian phone, which has a lower resolution as my current one. The upcoming C9-00 with keyboard and even 4" screen also has only a resolution of 640x360 - idiotic, such a large screen and such a low resolution. You can find Videos and specifications of this device when you google for "Nokia N9" (the name will most probably be C9-00).

Sorry, I hope Samsung will bring the Galaxy S Pro (Galaxy S with full 5 row keyboard) also to Europe, then I will buy it, although I prefer Symbian a lot.

I honestly do think the E71 is the best of the lot. I'm not really a camera guy, and I'm using the adapter on the E71 to listen to music as I type this. That adapter is annoying, but, I've had the phone ever since it came out.

Here are the good bits about the E71:
- Battery life (I fly often, I like music...so thats a plus)

- Nokia Messaging Email (Push and Exchange support)

- Build Quality. You can trust me when I say I've put this thing through its paces. Its rock solid.

- Stability

- Flawless multi-tasking: I'm using Opera Mini, while streaming Mobbler, I have push e-mail on, and I'm chatting to a buddy on Google Chat using Ebuddy. Its working seamlessly and the task switcher (Long pressing the Home key) is a god send.

I considered going Android (I've decided to jump on the Touchscreen bandwagon for media reasons), but, no Android phones out there have everything I need. Actually, all of them are disqualified because the N8 has a Pentaband 3G radio. I need that because I go to the US quite often...and I finally get to use T-mobile 3G there.

But, I can't really hold that against the HTC Desire (the premier Android I was considering). However, the N8 wins out over the Desire in some important aspects:

- Battery life (I've used a Nexus One...Android batteries are terrible compared to my E71). I just hope the N8 provides that...

- Better multi-media (the entire reason for me going touch phone): HDMI, better camera, etc.

- USB-OTG

Also, what the hell is this about Symbian not having a good UI? My E71 is pretty damn easy to use. Perhaps I'm just too familiar with Symbian. The major thing I have against the IOS (even bigger than iTunes) is this whole "no homescreen" business.

- Pentaband 3G

I too am a bit worried about the N8's battery - but take heart in these two technical facts:

1.) AMOLED technology uses less power.
2.) OpenVG as a rendering system is much more power efficient than the traditional graphics systems on previous Symbian versions. ALL graphics operations go through Open VG now, so that could be a boost.

It remains to be seen though how long it actually lasts in real use.

As for Peter's criticism of the display resolution, if that's something you deem critical that's fine. I would say the N8 has many other advantages that override this. But you define a 'real high end smartphone' as one that has a 3.7" display and WVGA resolution. That's a bit of a terrible definition of a smartphone. In my opinion anything *over* 3.7" isn't a 'phone' at all, so much as an undersized tablet.

Also, to address the 'issue' of RAM some people are so keen on highlighting. I've checked with one of the current beta testers for the N8 and they say that it has 140Mb free at startup with all 3 homescreens filled. From my experience on the Satio this more than enough and combined with data paging it should (almost) banish OOM errors.

It's probably worth saying that there were good reasons for a lot of these problems.

The RAM issue (noted by high end users mainly) was an issue in the hardware family. Simple doubling of the RAM wouldn't have done much. My understanding is that the channel (bits connecting to processor etc etc) was as much the limitation here. In other words you would have had two banks of RAM, but only one would have operated at a given time. Performance issues would have been apparent, presumably negating the benefits.

Its also worth saying there were a lot of good things too. I think the E71 and E72 in particular can be argued to be the best in their class. Of course such things are subjective though.

Some of Steve's points are subjective too - I love the materials of the Vivaz for example - great design. But that's the point - different opinions. In general I think its fair to say that high end Symbain devices have generally been perceived as poor in the last 12 months. That said there's relatively few real stand out devices for me full stop. A lot of 2009 seemed to be about mediocrity. I guess it inevitable as we transition from one hardware life cycle to the next.

Steve nailed it when he said there' no perfect smartphone. I would add to that - that everyone has a different ideal too. I never really understand the obsession with processor Mhz or screen resolution for some. For me it's more about what it's actually like to use.

Symbian^3 is a lot more power efficient, so will be interesting to see how that goes. That said I yet to meet a high end smartphone with truly acceptable battery life. One of the prices to pay for carrying around a high end device is poor battery life. This is why I love my E72.

Really interested in seeing what WDP does to memory usage in Symbian^3 and general stability.

I don't see the camera glass being an issue either, but clearly this is a case of wait and see to an extent.

Actually, for average use, AMOLED uses more power, not less. In extreme cases, with white web backgrounds and a light theme, up to 15 times more power.

Yes, pathetic 640x360 screen resolution is an absolute showstopper. I will never even consider to buy such a phone with 800x480 now almost a commonplace...

Nokia messenging email, the app by nokia thats not actually intergrated into a nokia phone!!! is there another os where the premier email app has to be booted up and where you have to configure the connection, as you do with mail for exchange which is at leat intergrated, these little things are what needs to be eliminated pronto.

For me, no lens cover go a bit deeper than just protection from scratches, it effects the whole ergonomics of how you handle the phone. for example when I pick up my less than perfect N97 at least I don't have to worry about how I hold it to avoid thumb prints etc on the lens because the lens cover is shut when not taking a photo. With my E90 and N96 I found I was always getting thumb/finger prints all over the lens and hence having to hold it a certain way to avoid this which also becomes irritating. I feel no lens cover is a poor design on a 12mp camera and a design cop out.

I agree with a lot of what you've said here, certainly my idea of a flagship device is the one that has the best bits of all the others which Nokia seem to have inexplicably missed in recent years.

As one of the many long-time-Symbian-users-who-recently-made-the-switch-to-Android who seem to comment on these threads I still really hope that the N8 proves to be a big success.

Personally I'm sceptical that it will live up to some of the expectations being put upon it. Whilst spec-wise it seems pretty good (screen resolution notwithstanding), there's so much pressure on Nokia to redeem itself at the moment that it's going to be immediately put under an awful lot of scrutiny when released. I suspect that it's not just this phone that's going to be reviewed, it's Nokia's overall ability to continue playing in the smartphone premiership.

That's a lot for a single device to live up to, and from what I've seen and read about the UI in particular, this phone doesn't seem to be quite enough to do that. If it had been released a year ago, or if the climate were different and it were being judged simply on it's own merits, I reckon the N8 would fare a lot better than I fear it will be in this context.

Certainly those people who specifically want a great camera phone would be daft not to be considering the N8, but I suspect most smartphone users are like me and view their devices as 'swiss-army knives' that they want to be competent at whole range of things rather than very good at one single aspect. Even on a good day when my N97 was working as it should (and this is the essence of what I perceive the N8 will offer), it was definitely playing in a different (lower) league to my HTC Desire for all-round functionality and useablity.

Why no mentions about the under powered cpu speed on Nokia's Symbian phones.

Any speed web page rendering would show it being slow compared to the A4s, Snapdragons and the Omap3s of the world.

And I have to agree with the first poster. Its time Symbian move away from multiple drives or at least fixed size ones.

Steve,

re: "Actually, for average use, AMOLED uses more power, not less. In extreme cases, with white web backgrounds and a light theme, up to 15 times more power."

Do you have a reference for that?

All the manufacturers data I've seen for AMOLED displays, show around 3x power consumption for AMOLED compared to LCD, *when running a full white screen* on like for like LCD / AMOLED.

For almost every other use case, including high-colour full screen images, the current consumption varies from <0.8 to <0.6 times that of LCD.

When displaying icon lists against a black background (e.g. App list) current consumption is around 0.4 times that of LCD.

So yes, it's dynamic, but for most users, most of the time, AMOLED will give them better battery life than a comparable LCD screen.

The all-white issue is primarily a UI / design / education issue which is easily dealt with through software, meaning that as AMOLED proliferates and designers become more savvy, further gains can be had. Web browsing is probably the worst case for most people as white backgrounds are common there, but they aren't full-screen white, so even there the jury is out.

Clever UI design can bring massive gains here, by darkening the screen area around a dialogue box, for example. This has dual benefits of focussing the users eyes and gaining battery life at the same time, a real win-win.

Like all technologies, there's both positives and negatives, AMOLED doesn't age evenly, can suffer screen burn etc. but overall AMOLED / S-AMOLED *coupled with good design on the part of the manufacturer* has a lot of very real benefits in a mobile device.

Andy.

Kurt Usen wrote:Yes, pathetic 640x360 screen resolution is an absolute showstopper. I will never even consider to buy such a phone with 800x480 now almost a commonplace...

Its a show stopper? I think you need to get out a little more.

I really don't think the N8 is the high end - double so when you consider the potential price - sub �400 is relatively cheap for the specification of the device.

Now, if it was a device carrying a much higher price tag, I'd understand your comment.

Peter Sulzer wrote:You can find Videos and specifications of this device when you google for "Nokia N9" (the name will most probably be C9-00).

No you can't. The devices that were seen around did have a larger screen, around 4", but the text was just as crisp on them, suggesting that they were actually higher resolution.

Please don't count rumour mongering and guess work as facts. I can't believe that gsmarena actually have specs of the device on their site.

Sorry but cannot understand with Steve about the amount of RAM in N8. Although 256 MB is the double of the 128 MB that N97, X6 and the other current phones have, but take the upgraded OS into account, with its new UI. I have seen earlier that doubling RAM for the next generation is simply not enough as the OS evolves in the meantime as well (my old E70 with just 64 MB built in had the same RAM problems as my new X6 with 128 MB built in).
It is really disappointing, as it seems that the hardware specification is always one or two years behind the OS requirements. And Nokia plays this game for several years now!! I really cannot understand why.
Read the previews about N8 (for example on mobile-review.com) and you will see that N8 will have the same RAM issues.... again.
Which means that I can see no hope anymore, any reasons to hang on and stay a Nokia fan. I have been using Nokias for 12 years now, always their "flagship" models, and now I am sorry to say that next time I will choose an Android handset for sure.
Sorry Nokia, too many mistakes, and even worse, always repeated.

Can't help but notice that most of these problems are there due to the closed source nature of the s60 3rd and 5th edition operating systems.
Both S^3 and meego are opensource so I don't think that we will see

"Official firmware stopped last year, leaving the device almost unusable"

But I don't think that any of the reasons given above are the real reason that nokia is more or less 'failing'. It has more to do with marketing than the hardware or the software.

Think about it.. If for some reason the iphone 2g failed we would be able to make a list of reasons that go on for ever.
*no multitasking
*no copy paste
*camera sucks.. no flash what so ever.
ect ect.
But no one made a list about 'The sadly flawed iphone'

I will patiently wait for an n8 running meego with a qwerty keyboard. Or buy an n900 if i run out of patience😉.

Here's what i think that nokia should do(I know they don't care what i think, but still...)
Hire Steve and make a top end phone with every feature the top end users would need (without any cutbacks like Nokia did in the 2007,8 period). This should include everything the n8 has with replaceable battery and memory qwerty and hopefully something new for a change(remember the good old days when Nokia wasn't playing 'catching up with that other phone' game ?)

They should keep doing what they are doing with the low end phones but make the s40 lineup to s^3 and make sure that the user knows that s/he is using a 'smart' phone.

Some of these issues are certainly more nagging issues and feature tradeoffs than crippling flaws.

The E71 and N86 in particular; the problems with those two devices are not in the same class at all as the crippling flaws of the N97.

That said, I'm optimistic about the N8. If it truly has solved the RAM and C: drive space issues, the biggest problem with Symbian is solved (outsiders will probably say the problem's with the UI, but to Symbian users, the main reason we would be wary of recommanding a Symbian smartphone is because we know not everyone has the patience to deal with error messages popping up on their phone on a semi-regular basis!)

Nokia release the N8 already PLEASE cos I'm really sick of getting AAS newsletter whining over those same flawed flagship, or lack of high-end solution, and nostalgia over good times. This isn't going to make N8 launch any sooner. Face it, those are gone as far as Symbian is concerned, and the way back on top is hard and rocky. At this rate I'd probably unsubscribe from AAS soon.

Peter Sulzer wrote:
The N8 has one design flaw, which makes it absolutely unacceptable:

I want a real high end smartphone as available e. g. with Android or WinMobile OS (e. g. Samsung Galaxy S or HTC TouchPro II). This means:

It's not a design flaw in case ur wondering. Even Symbian 3 still have 640x360 screen res limitation. Beside, its first Nokia with OLED screen over 3 inches, its a perfectly average screen - fine its outdoor quality isn't going to match Super-AMOLED, nor is the res 960x640 - but be thankful cos it could been worse, Nok could have reused N97's resistive LCD for all you know. There is nothing wrong.

If u want high res, get a iPhone... twice the resolution of N8 on the same sized screen - but that is bad for the eyes in the long run.

Rafe wrote:
The RAM issue was an issue in the hardware family. Simple doubling of the RAM wouldn't have done much. My understanding is that the channel (bits connecting to processor etc etc) was as much the limitation here. In other words you would have had two banks of RAM, but only one would have operated at a given time. Performance issues would have been apparent, presumably negating the benefits.

What hardware family would that be, ARM11? There are plenty of successful hardware based on that platform - 1st two generation of iPhone didn't have the problem - it most likely would be be software limitation of Symbian addressing the extra RAM module. On the other hand, OMAP 3's performed fine with i8910 in multitasking; N900 managed exceptional well too; 3Gs performed twice better than ARM 11.

Nokia, has not produced a single Symbian handset with OMAP 3, and there is probably a reason N8 isn't using it (apart from battery concerns). If there is a serious and such apparent problem, why have Nokia not solved it? and more worryingly why has it chose to continue on with N8 on ARM 11? I for one think it lies with Symbian OS.

Its also worth saying there were a lot of good things too. I think the E71 and E72 in particular can be argued to be the best in their class. Of course such things are subjective though.

Somewhat true, but these days the competition heats up far more in Touch screen market; these businessy QWERTY phones are quite serious when comes to stability, they may lead its class, a formula that is know to work - but in doing so they are stuck in their bubble, and the touch screen phones are pulling away in spec, and user experience.

Steve nailed it when he said there' no perfect smartphone. I would add to that - that everyone has a different ideal too. I never really understand the obsession with processor Mhz or screen resolution for some. For me it's more about what it's actually like to use.

Symbian^3 is a lot more power efficient, so will be interesting to see how that goes. That said I yet to meet a high end smartphone with truly acceptable battery life. One of the prices to pay for carrying around a high end device is poor battery life. This is why I love my E72.

Agreed, actually amazed by mobile-review.com's 47 hour music playback time. I will renew contract soon, and honestly I'm looking at iPhone and Galaxy S, I need something of a fast, great package, smart too - Most Nokia I've used are only phones, and N8 will fail by the looks of it, to have apps I need. Even until now, Symbian still have no proper native facebook app. For me that's the deal braker. User experience just isn't there without good apps and PC and firmware support.

In the package, I expect decent camera and video. Even though N8 may have better than compact camera, that's all it pretty much is, and cameras are so cheap now too - beside iPhone should come closer in image, and video quality to N8 - far as casual pic goes, and the huge gap between N8 and proper DSLR is alarming ; for me it replaces nothing, your milage may vary. So as interesting N8 is, one fit all solution just isn't for me. It won't be available when I renew anyway, and I'm also tired of getting screwed over as early buyer by Nokia.

Galaxy S fantastic hardware but the software is nowhere up to the desire class, wait till samsung release some firmware before committing. Take that from someone who uses both.

gadget freak wrote:Galaxy S fantastic hardware but the software is nowhere up to the desire class, wait till samsung release some firmware before committing. Take that from someone who uses both.

I dunno why I dont associate engineering percision with HTC. On the other hand Samsung, 😮 . I mean compare battery life, audio quality, etc - Galaxy is superior.

junchao8 wrote:I dunno why I dont associate engineering percision with HTC. On the other hand Samsung, 😮 . I mean compare battery life, audio quality, etc - Galaxy is superior.

Battery life desire wins hands down
audio quality unless you invest in better buds the desire wins again:
galaxy force closes its own app launcher at least three times a day.
Its quicker to wake micheal jackson from the dead than it is the wake the galaxy after a charge.

The reason Nokia "Flagship" devices are so poor, is easy, and exemplified by the FORTHCOMING N8...

Nokia's "lead in" time, for a new device, from announcement, to retail channel, is so so so slow compared to many other manufacturers, and Android etc.

Why this is the case, when you are wholly in house (OS, materials, design, construction), is well beyond me.

But this invariably always means that a Nokia Flagship device, even if we were to PRETEND that it was bang up to date spec wise, for EVERYTHING, at the time it is announced, is matterless anyway, because by the time it comes to retail, lots of it's features are by then old-hat.

I'm over exaggerating things for sure, but the basic principle is a sound one. Nokia really do have a long lead-in time, from Announcement to Retail.

And linked to this, and the other great issue, Nokia are not ahead of the game.

As a result, theie FORTHCOMING (yes, it's not even out YET), 'flagship device', the Nokia N8, uses a screen resolution lower than any other high end smartphone from any other manufacturer.

@Steve/Rafe.... I know you two SOOOO want the N8 to succeed, and want to give it every change etc.

But I'm serious Steve, if you go with the theme of your "let's spot the key flaws with each previous Nokia high end device", then alas, before it's even out, the N8 does have one.

And there are many that say "so what's the issue with only a 600px wide display...?

Neglecting to realise, that once you hit 800 wide or over, the vast majority of websites, full real websites, provided they are properly coded, will not need any scrolling to display width-wise, as they should reflow or fit for an 800 wide display.

So this makes any screen less than 800 wide, a fundamental issue, as your entire use of that device, for evermore (as it's a hardware feature), will have a restriction, issue, or flaw to it.

So Rafe or Steve, if you do not feel this is fundamental, I cannot comprehend how you think that...

Steve - as someone who appreciates the difference a 2.6" screen on a qwerty Nokia would have made, to a 2.4" one fitted instead even despite what would sound like only a .2 inch increase, then you simply HAVE to understand the fundamental issue of a screen that is not 800px wide, in terms of the issue it will have for evermore, with web-pages, that a 800px+ display device most often won't have.

So Nokia have done it again... and we all know why... expedience. And THAT my friends is the issue with Nokia... too much of what they do is driven by expedience only...

Using 600px displays meant they could just go with what they already had, a la X6 etc.

Great. But how does that make you remain competitive in the high end smartphone field, when other manufacturers have been using 800px+ screens for AGES, and your flagship device ISN'T EVEN OUT YET, and yet will only come with 600px screen.

THESE reasons, the underlying problem with Nokia, are why they are failing dismally, and will continue to do so.

After moving from 67 Nokias, over to Android recently, I would have LOVED for the N8 to be the device that brought me back into the fold. Indeed the camera aspects of it are still trying to tempt me.

But move back to a 600px screen, from my current 800px one...?

How is that a step FORWARD for me?

And that's the problem... if it means a step BACKWARDS for me, then it' means it's a step backwards for NOKIA...

It seems Nokia don't want to learn... but one thing's for sure... if they DO finally "get this", it will certainly be too late by then, as the N8 needed to stem the flow for now, and I'm not sure it will now...

gadget freak wrote:Battery life desire wins hands down

Source?

The Galaxy lasted for an unprecedented 29 hours in our light usage battery tests, which is around 50 per cent more than its nearest equivalent, the HTC Desire. This means it should last a couple of days if you&#8217;re careful with power-hungry features, such as GPS.

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/smartphones/1279195/samsung-gt-i9000-galaxy-s-16gb?CMP=NLC-Newsletters

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/htc-desire-vs-iphone-4-vs-samsung-galaxy-s-702739?artc_pg=8

http://www.careace.net/2010/06/29/comparison-of-htc-desire-vs-samsung-galaxy-s/

audio quality unless you invest in better buds the desire wins again:

If you could tell the difference, the chances are you have, or plan to get one already.

galaxy force closes its own app launcher at least three times a day.
Its quicker to wake micheal jackson from the dead than it is the wake the galaxy after a charge.

Raising the dead sets the bar slightly high? 😃

@shadamehr,

Definitely get what ur saying. However if the browser is very efficiently and intuitively designed, 600x wide is almost acceptable, that said, S60 webkit has to be one of the worse ones. Even on XGA res on a PC, sites still dont look great imo. Its only after 1280x1024 when it looks natural.

But let's rewind - small screen is why there are many native apps, designed to reduce the effort and annoyance of having to load-up the full site. Where the content is especially customized. On some platforms they are arguably better, designed, easier to use; and to a extent they are alternative to surfing on the move. Nokia's app support isn't great in that sense in both user experience, and range.

junchao8 wrote:Source?

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/smartphones/1279195/samsung-gt-i9000-galaxy-s-16gb?CMP=NLC-Newsletters

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/htc-desire-vs-iphone-4-vs-samsung-galaxy-s-702739?artc_pg=8

http://www.careace.net/2010/06/29/comparison-of-htc-desire-vs-samsung-galaxy-s/

If you could tell the difference, the chances are you have, or plan to get one already.

Raising the dead raises the bar slightly high? 😃

i have both, and the desire is a more polished device, but if samsung get their finger outta their ass and fix these bugs then it will be a very close.

"Certainly those people who specifically want a great camera phone would be daft not to be considering the N8, but I suspect most smartphone users are like me and view their devices as 'swiss-army knives' that they want to be competent at whole range of things rather than very good at one single aspect. Even on a good day when my N97 was working as it should (and this is the essence of what I perceive the N8 will offer), it was definitely playing in a different (lower) league to my HTC Desire for all-round functionality and useablity."

-- I agree that a smartphone has to be a swiss army knife.

That's exactly why I still love my N97, despite the imperfections. I have tried both the Desire and Nexus numerous times, esspecially the Nexus I have at work, and even though the UI is smoother and faster than the N97, I just can't bring myself to switch. My N97 does EVERYTHING I want (Cam, Mail, Browsing (Opera), Maps, Games, Music, Video, News widgets, Skype, Dropbox web, Instant messaging, Guitar Tuner etc.etc.)! Including some pretty decent Wifi tethering with the Joikuspot app. Yes, I know Android 2.2 can do it as well, only problem is, if I upgrade the Nexus to 2.2, half of the apps do not work anymore. Now that is utter crap!

No, man. I'll stick with Symbian, and specifically I am looking forward to the N8!

Interesting comments on screen resolution, but on a 3.5" screen, I think nHD is fine. Web browsing aside, the fonts and general interface detail on the N97 are great for my eyes, at least.

Browsing is a special case, of course. But what the heck's the point in being able to show a 1024 pixel wide web page at 1:1 when the text is so small that you can't read any of it??? In every real world case, you've got to double-tap (or pinch/splay) to zoom anyway, to zoom in on the para you want to read. At which point the resolution becomes immaterial - it's all about screen (physical) size and choice of rendering fonts.

I agree that nHD might start to look blocky on a 4" screen, so if there is a Symbian^3 device with screen that size then they'd do well do look at a resolution bump at that size.

junchao8 wrote:What hardware family would that be, ARM11? There are plenty of successful hardware based on that platform - 1st two generation of iPhone didn't have the problem - it most likely would be be software limitation of Symbian addressing the extra RAM module. On the other hand, OMAP 3's performed fine with i8910 in multitasking; N900 managed exceptional well too; 3Gs performed twice better than ARM 11.

In this context hardware family means the design / architecture of the hardware - Nokia tends to have common hardware families (i.e. may device running the same base hardware). Within this family things like the base board, RAM and CPU and ancillary chips are common. Some variation in things like camera module, materials form factor etc. i.e. N97, 5800, X6 etc etc are a common family.

And no, in the case of RAM, this is not a software problem.

Free yourself - get Android phone.

These "negative" articles about Symbian and Nokia are boring. So I unsubscribed AAS (AAN) news after seven years. 😊

Unregistered wrote:Sorry but cannot understand with Steve about the amount of RAM in N8. Although 256 MB is the double of the 128 MB that N97, X6 and the other current phones have, but take the upgraded OS into account, with its new UI. I have seen earlier that doubling RAM for the next generation is simply not enough as the OS evolves in the meantime as well (my old E70 with just 64 MB built in had the same RAM problems as my new X6 with 128 MB built in).
It is really disappointing, as it seems that the hardware specification is always one or two years behind the OS requirements. And Nokia plays this game for several years now!! I really cannot understand why.
Read the previews about N8 (for example on mobile-review.com) and you will see that N8 will have the same RAM issues.... again.
Which means that I can see no hope anymore, any reasons to hang on and stay a Nokia fan. I have been using Nokias for 12 years now, always their "flagship" models, and now I am sorry to say that next time I will choose an Android handset for sure.
Sorry Nokia, too many mistakes, and even worse, always repeated.

Couple of things to point out. Firstly, you forget that we have WDP on the N8 so boosts the available memory you have available. It works like a dream, from a consumer point of view you will not see any out of memory issues, and I have not noticed any impact to daily use.

Secondly, would not pay too much attention to the Russian review, not my experience with the N8.

So hang on in there, you will be pleasantly surprised 😊

Cheers,

Kevin

beardyweirdy wrote:I agree with a lot of what you've said here, certainly my idea of a flagship device is the one that has the best bits of all the others which Nokia seem to have inexplicably missed in recent years.

As one of the many long-time-Symbian-users-who-recently-made-the-switch-to-Android who seem to comment on these threads I still really hope that the N8 proves to be a big success.

Personally I'm sceptical that it will live up to some of the expectations being put upon it. Whilst spec-wise it seems pretty good (screen resolution notwithstanding), there's so much pressure on Nokia to redeem itself at the moment that it's going to be immediately put under an awful lot of scrutiny when released. I suspect that it's not just this phone that's going to be reviewed, it's Nokia's overall ability to continue playing in the smartphone premiership.

That's a lot for a single device to live up to, and from what I've seen and read about the UI in particular, this phone doesn't seem to be quite enough to do that. If it had been released a year ago, or if the climate were different and it were being judged simply on it's own merits, I reckon the N8 would fare a lot better than I fear it will be in this context.

Certainly those people who specifically want a great camera phone would be daft not to be considering the N8, but I suspect most smartphone users are like me and view their devices as 'swiss-army knives' that they want to be competent at whole range of things rather than very good at one single aspect. Even on a good day when my N97 was working as it should (and this is the essence of what I perceive the N8 will offer), it was definitely playing in a different (lower) league to my HTC Desire for all-round functionality and useablity.

I think people need to remember that we are not just launching one Symbian^3 device in the N8, rather this is the first of many 😊 I think people will be surprised with this and other Symbian^3 phones.

For me, one of the biggest things especially for developers is the inclusion of Qt, you will quickly start to see many many apps available for Qt. I am not a programmer and I even managed to create one useless app, and if a marketing type can do then real programmers will have a ball. Which removes one of the biggest issue we had in Symbian days, our development environment.