The best of Nokia's Symbian^1 line-up: picking a 'flagship'

I've been using a couple of other phones, an Android and an iPhone for about 4 months. After I heard there was an update for the 5800 I got it out of the drawer to upgrade and play with. I hadn't noticed the sluggishness before when it was my main phone, but it stands out now. Everything else about it seemed really good though, it's still an impressive phone, but the ARM 11, 434MHz without external help from a supporting display accelerator is a bit of a problem.

This is exactly the same processor as in these two compared devices, so people are going to notice. Neither of them can be called "flagship", Nokia just don't have one. I don't think the N8 will be either, despite the superb imaging. That role is going to be fulfilled by a Meego phone with hardware to leapfrog everything else.

If the mini would have 256mb of RAM and a 600mhz processor (note that I am not asking too much) it would be a superb device.

N97 mini has been about 360� for a while now, but this price drop came too late, so I managed to grap couple of months ago HTC Desire also only for 360�, sick price.

iPhone 4 = 599�/699�
Desire normal price= 480�

Greetings from Finland.

"If the mini would have 256mb of RAM and a 600mhz processor (note that I am not asking too much) it would be a superb device."

I wholeheartedly agree! It is such a shame that Nokia decided to cut costs on the CPU and RAM - really really stupid. The rest of the device is beatiful, only hindered by the poor CPU/RAM thingy.

If rumors (and leaked videos) are true, the coming Nokia E7 should be just that perfect device.

The N97 mini looks an is the Best Valued handset as with the metal body it looks worth its True Value,the X6 might be o.k for younger generation but the Plastic body lets the phone down an the Music Player not as simple as people were expecting,but one mobile thats deserves alot of praise is the 5800,as the Music player is spot on an the Speakers Superb an the software so simple to use an this mobile as really got to be Nokia top seller,o.k the camera not so good but the younger generation love music mobiles an not many can beat the 5800 as the best music player mobile,just want to hear the speakers on the N8 as we know about everything else about the N8 but hope the Dolby speakers are top class

"With the N8 on the way (honest!), with larger, brighter, capacitive screen, fast processor, graphics acceleration, more intuitive OS and far better camera/camcorder, and presumably with a QWERTY-equipped companion following, both the X6 and N97 mini"

Steve, you are a great guy and this is still my favorite tech site and all, but.... when you say 'more intuitive OS", I find myself reading all Symbian^3 previews and being forced to disagree. Similarly, 'fast' processor is relative. Sorry - the A-word again. I had HTC Legend and it NEVER slowed down on a 600 MHz processor. I guess we have to face it: throwing a faster processor at Symbian does not do anyone any good - it remains slow, clunky and prone to freezes. I find it hard to believe that when my N97 and 5800 froze on more than two web pages, N8 will zip at Android-like speeds with a barely adequate processor and half the RAM of other smartphones.

The proof is in the pudding though. It is just that I have lost faith and Nokia's care and diligence before releasing sets.

Why not add the C6 into the mix?

Problem with this model line is that there isn't really that much to differentiate them, at least not to the consumer.

Why do they really need to have ....
N97
N97 Mini
X6 (in 7 and 16gig variants)
5800
5530
5230 (and 5233, 5235)
C6

Which all have the same screen resolution, CPU, memory. Addition or removal of 3G, GPS, compass, and slightly differing cameras and a little memory really isn't enough to differentiate them.

There hasn't been a "high end" Symbian handset since the N95. The N86 could have taken that role, but it seems to be semi-ignored by Nokia these days.

talhamid wrote:"With the N8 on the way (honest!), with larger, brighter, capacitive screen, fast processor, graphics acceleration, more intuitive OS and far better camera/camcorder, and presumably with a QWERTY-equipped companion following, both the X6 and N97 mini"

Steve, you are a great guy and this is still my favorite tech site and all, but.... when you say 'more intuitive OS", I find myself reading all Symbian^3 previews and being forced to disagree. Similarly, 'fast' processor is relative. Sorry - the A-word again. I had HTC Legend and it NEVER slowed down on a 600 MHz processor. I guess we have to face it: throwing a faster processor at Symbian does not do anyone any good - it remains slow, clunky and prone to freezes. I find it hard to believe that when my N97 and 5800 froze on more than two web pages, N8 will zip at Android-like speeds with a barely adequate processor and half the RAM of other smartphones.

The proof is in the pudding though. It is just that I have lost faith and Nokia's care and diligence before releasing sets.

Symbians touch layer was clunky, but if after having seen the videos you still think the N8 is clunky .... please try looking past the dull icons. Everything seems to zip by as fast as anything else on the market.

The N8 has a CPU thats probably close on twice as fast in real world usage than its S^1 predecessors, it has more memory, a truly class-leading GPU, and a totally re-written operating system.

clonmult wrote:

The N8 has a CPU thats probably close on twice as fast in real world usage than its S^1 predecessors, it has more memory, a truly class-leading GPU, and a totally re-written operating system.

I doubt that ^3 is an OS with a new codebase, but has a redesigned UI with Qt integration. This is the difference that was required. Belwo the UI the OS is as good a mobile OS as any (although it doesn't have the similarity to desktop OS development, this is a price worth paying)

I'm sure that N8 is going to be sufficiently fast for it's mid-tier positioning. It won't take much to improve on the Android products out there, which are disappointing - but somehow that's OK because Android is the current flavour of the month.

"With the N8 on the way (honest!), with larger, brighter, capacitive screen, fast processor, graphics acceleration, more intuitive OS and far better camera/camcorder, and presumably with a QWERTY-equipped companion following, both the X6 and N97 mini"

Steve, you are a great guy and this is still my favorite tech site and all, but.... when you say 'more intuitive OS", I find myself reading all Symbian^3 previews and being forced to disagree. Similarly, 'fast' processor is relative. Sorry - the A-word again. I had HTC Legend and it NEVER slowed down on a 600 MHz processor. I guess we have to face it: throwing a faster processor at Symbian does not do anyone any good - it remains slow, clunky and prone to freezes. I find it hard to believe that when my N97 and 5800 froze on more than two web pages, N8 will zip at Android-like speeds with a barely adequate processor and half the RAM of other smartphones.

The proof is in the pudding though. It is just that I have lost faith and Nokia's care and diligence before releasing sets.

Sorry.. but WHAT?! Throwing a faster processor at symbian DOES do it good.. Just look at i8910 with custom FW. not one out of mem error, not one app crash since my 1.3 years of ownership (I was one who got the phone on launch date), Everything is pretty zippy. Your post makes no sense at all. UI is clumsy and clunky, but its definitely not slow.

Agreed. The slowdowns on the N97 and similar devices were mainly to do with not enough RAM. The i8910 HD and Satio/Vivaz and N8 all have plenty of RAM and things progress far more smoothly.

I have high hopes for the N8 - its browsing won't be Android-quality and it won't match the iPhone for 3rd party apps, but it'll knock the ball out of the park in most other areas.

I agree with Steve about removing the i8190 due to its 'geek' status. If Samsung had actually supported their product the way Nokia does, and hence included in theis race, it would be head and shoulders above all other comers in this 'flagship' contest.

Remember, its STILL the ONLY Symbian 5th edition device that can play Steves Phones Show, VGA version.

Just my opinion...🙄
I had both... and I mean, 5800, X6 and N97 mini, not at same time... I�m not rich, and search always second hand, if possible!
I said "had" because I sold one by one all, because I just don�t thing they are great devices.
Slow, very slow, so-so cameras, lens exposed, with freezes, sometime need to remove the battery, that one does not last long (with 3,5G navigation, GPS and some Joikuspot), X6 was a very fragile device, with lousy construction, and all low on ergonomics.
I return, once again, always, to N82... at least that one it�s always ready for all duty. But N82 was a 2007 product😮
Now... Well I go try an E72... maybe it can fulfill my requirements (it should be fast, it have almost a 3x faster processor that the one on N82).
If that one, also fail on my daily use, I must search on other side... Android seems the green field.

I think you're being a bit harsh on the vivaz. I've had one for about 5 months and find it stable and relatively easy to use. I quite like the panel homescreen as it allows you to load any swf file which means I can see my emails and calendar using the roadsync flash panel and have the notes application (similar to the uiq version on g900) on another. You can then have instant access to these rather than having to load up seperate applications. The pictures and videos from the camera are pretty good aswell.

If you mean a mess by having kinetic scrolling in the panels and media application but not in menus then this is not too big a hurdle and is something you get used to pretty quickly.

nj7 wrote:Just my opinion...🙄
I had both... and I mean, 5800, X6 and N97 mini, not at same time... I�m not rich, and search always second hand, if possible!
I said "had" because I sold one by one all, because I just don�t thing they are great devices.
Slow, very slow, so-so cameras, lens exposed, with freezes, sometime need to remove the battery, that one does not last long (with 3,5G navigation, GPS and some Joikuspot), X6 was a very fragile device, with lousy construction, and all low on ergonomics.

Slow .... hmmmmm. Were yours running on the original vanilla firmware, not upgraded, or on operator screwed variants?

I only ask, as my stepsons 5800 and my 5230 have never had any performance problems. Well, i say never - Opera Mobile is the only application I've ever found to have occasional lockups.

nokia n97 mini??? lol it suffer of antenna issue and battery life is ridiculus!!!

much better N97 CLASSIC 32GB, 3,5 DISPLAY, 1500BATTERY, ETC ETC... AND SAME PRICE OF N97 MINI NOW...!!

x6 is crap...just good only for the capacitative screen...

"Symbians touch layer was clunky, but if after having seen the videos you still think the N8 is clunky .... please try looking past the dull icons. Everything seems to zip by as fast as anything else on the market.
"

Really?? Because all the videos i've seen of it on Youtube show lag, lag and more lag and oh yes! More lag 😊 From everything from moving about menus to looking at pictures it's MILES behind the competition in this area, no idea if it's because of an early firmware, CPU or what, but it's definitely NOT zipping by as fast as anything else on the market 😊

"Slow .... hmmmmm. Were yours running on the original vanilla firmware, not upgraded, or on operator screwed variants?

I only ask, as my stepsons 5800 and my 5230 have never had any performance problems. Well, i say never - Opera Mobile is the only application I've ever found to have occasional lockups.
"

Funny, my dads 5800 is slow as hell, has the stock Nokia FW on and is up to date, my mum can't even make a call on it, well she can, but it takes her ages to figure out how the hell to do it, then perform it, whilst I just hand my iPhone over (Uh oh, mentioned the Jesus Device! Every word out the window now!) to her and she makes the call easy as pie.

Facing_Reality wrote:Really?? Because all the videos i've seen of it on Youtube show lag, lag and more lag and oh yes! More lag 😊 From everything from moving about menus to looking at pictures it's MILES behind the competition in this area, no idea if it's because of an early firmware, CPU or what, but it's definitely NOT zipping by as fast as anything else on the market 😊

Funny, my dads 5800 is slow as hell, has the stock Nokia FW on and is up to date, my mum can't even make a call on it, well she can, but it takes her ages to figure out how the hell to do it, then perform it, whilst I just hand my iPhone over (Uh oh, mentioned the Jesus Device! Every word out the window now!) to her and she makes the call easy as pie.

Can you please point to some example videos, pointing to where there is lag? I've gone through quite a few, and haven't seen any lag at all.

Very definitely not behind any of the competition. The only area that is lacking in is the icon design. Everything else looks pretty sweet. ps - I'm definitely not a Nokia fanboy, but these comments about lag on the N8 are basically rubbish.

Interesting about your dads 5800 being slow, as its not something I've ever experienced, either on the 5800 or 5230.

Intresting article. I have the X6 as a backup to my N97 Classic and could agree that these are two of the better devices from Nokia. Both are powerful, and reasonably solid. The SIM stays in my N97 mostly because of battery life and the holding of a ton more content. Because I am not on a PC, it is more difficult to sync media between them.

Should be interesting to read this article at this point next year. I think we will see the same form factors on the recommended angel, I wonder if Nokia will have both models.

Well, I understand Nokia is a world wide manufacturer that also caters to non-Euro/non-US/non-first world countries, but if the argument is: if you're looking for a premium, high end device/phone/gadget, which one do you get, realistically, Nokia isn't playing in that game.

At least for now.

As has been said, if you want a high end Nokia, you have to wait for a Meego *something*. Either that, or go with the competition.

But I will truly LOL, if everybody holding out for a Meego Super Phone finds out that Nokia is instead releasing a Meego.....netbook.

I haven�t got any problems at all with my X 6..and after all the bla..bla...of the technical such and such I challenge anyone to deny that the design the handly comfort and beauty of the X6 is not the best.

Hurra for the beautiful design..who cares about minor new stuff every 3 months on the "ever getting better" tourist trap..spend some more $$?

if you're looking for a premium, high end device/phone/gadget, which one do you get, realistically

The Desire or the iPhone. Well if you want to spend �400-500 on the handset or tie yourself into a contract at �35 per month for two years you do.

Or you can get an X6 that does 90% of all the stuff they do plus a few other things aside for �200 on eBay plus a month on month contract. Which is what I did.

I don't think the high end game is one most people play to be honest.

Mr Mark wrote:The Desire or the iPhone. ...

I don't think the high end game is one most people play to be honest.

The Desire and its NAM equivalent, the HTC Incredible, are really great devices, though they're more in the 'pocket computer' category than just mere phones.

With some electronics, I agree that due to component failure and quick obsolescence, that it doesn't always pay to get the best.

I would disagree with a day-to-day device like a smart phone/pda or a computer.

For example, I'll be returning to Grad School in January of 2011 to study for an MBA in Supply Chain/Industrial Management at New York University. Now, to complement my studies, I can buy a cheap laptop like a Dell or H-P, which some may deem "good enough; it does its job, etc. etc." that'll likely have hardware and software issues little more than a year out.

Or I can just spare myself the headaches, hardware failures/driver issues and software crashes and just lay out the cash to buy a Macbook Pro, which I'm doing.

I think the nokia 5800 is a better competitor than the nokia X-6, but it's just my opinion

Just to add, the N97 Mini is actually a gorgeous looking phone. That thing is just sex.

The problem lies with what happens once you turn it on; it makes you want to throw it against the wall.

Jimmy1 wrote:

Or I can just spare myself the headaches, hardware failures/driver issues and software crashes and just lay out the cash to buy a Macbook Pro, which I'm doing.

That's quite funny. I don't think anyone buys MacBook pro for hardware reliability, if they do they've not been awake for a few years. Make damn sure you buy two, back up frequently and Apple Care will indispensable.

There are one or two laptop makers with a reputation for reliability, but Mac sure ain't one of them.

Jimmy1 wrote:Just to add, the N97 Mini is actually a gorgeous looking phone. That thing is just sex.

The problem lies with what happens once you turn it on; it makes you want to throw it against the wall.

I really can't believe anybody sees a small electronic device as "sex". That is seriously warped.

Or I can just spare myself the headaches, hardware failures/driver issues and software crashes and just lay out the cash to buy a Macbook Pro, which I'm doing.

As a Macbook user I have to say you're kidding yourself if you think they're problem free. You're also being a bit silly if you think HP and Dell only do budget machines.

Personally my next laptop will be a second generation HP Envy 14. I prefer Windows 7 because it's more versatile than OS X 10.6. The Macbook only really gets used as a browser and media management device (everything else is done on the desktop) these days which isn't the best use of something that cost me over �900 new.

As for phones, no, I really think most people don't care that much as long as it works and does what it needs to do which, for me, the X6 does.

Unregistered wrote:I really can't believe anybody sees a small electronic device as "sex". That is seriously warped.

It's inter-tubes speak for 'nice-looking'.