netborn wrote:Ewan,I really think that android mail is way better than Nokia�s (stock or Nokia Messaging), BUT the problem with android is if you need Exchange support.
re.
Android Mail is very buggy. I've had to change over to using the Google Mail app because the email one frequently became broken and unusable.
I wish I had profimail on Android.
Unregistered wrote:Android Mail is very buggy. I've had to change over to using the Google Mail app because the email one frequently became broken and unusable.I wish I had profimail on Android.
You are right, using anything different from GMail is not very good, for instance if you need Hotmail NM wins.
netborn wrote:You are right, using anything different from GMail is not very good, for instance if you need Hotmail NM wins.
LOL, yeah, but if you're using Hotmail, you kind of already lost, so to speak.
@ewan - wow i stand corrected (and gobsmacked) as it appears they have indeed taken stuff out of standard android in the network settings screens
what a completely crap phone that is then and the nokia should be considered better
of course i would also say that this is absolutely not representative of android phones and would even go so far as to say that this phone should be taken out back and shot without hesitation
but the comparison rules you made cannot be argues with so there it is
i stand corrected
Just to add a comment about why we're doing a review like this - well the answer is basically that while it may not be as cool as the high end devices they're just as important. Yes high end phones get more exposure and are important for brand etc. but the cheaper the phone is the more it sells (well in theory...).
As mentioned in the podcast I've been using the Vodafone 845 - I think its probably a bit better than the ZTE Racer (e.g. it does have the turn off 3G stuff)... however it shares many of the problems Ewan has talked about in the review. It also not available on PAYG (yet) and looks to be heading to a price of around �130 when it does.
Pricing is an interesting area because even small differences can be a significant portion of the cost. On a �100 device �20 is 20% of the cost, whereas on a �500 its only 4%... that proportion difference will obviously have an impact on retail decisions. The fact that the 5230 is widely available for �80 and has been for a while gives it another edge I guess.
In general would agree with sentiment over Android email - fine if you're on GMail otherwise can be problematic. A lot of people don't seem to think this is a problem, but GMail although popular among geeks isn't even the biggest webmail service. I think both Hotmail and Yahoo Mail are still ahead. I'm fairly sure that the cross over between Gmail and the target audience for the ZTE Racer (and any other low cost Android device) is much less than for the higher end devices.
Nokia Messaging seems to be a lot more battery friendly too - I guess because they can more closely control the phone - server relationship but putting a middle man in. Though its probably a combination of this and the network / cellular stack.
Maybe we could do a repeat of this series, but with a mid tier device?
I take the point about not mentioning the Desire or anything else, and to not be able to disable 3g easily is a pain, but the fact is why have a smartphone if you don't want to be connected? isn't the whole purpose of an android phone to be constantly in sync with google apps etc. exchange, location services.
gadget freak wrote:I take the point about not mentioning the Desire or anything else, and to not be able to disable 3g easily is a pain, but the fact is why have a smartphone if you don't want to be connected? isn't the whole purpose of an android phone to be constantly in sync with google apps etc. exchange, location services.
Of course it is to most people. But if I am in WiFi range, with marginal 3G, I know which way I want to connect, and having the 3G step in is a pain.
Interesting article but I agree that top end phones get more exposure and rightly so as it's usually the manufacturers flag-ship models so to speak.
Unregistered wrote:Of course it is to most people. But if I am in WiFi range, with marginal 3G, I know which way I want to connect, and having the 3G step in is a pain.
Ok your right but i have 2 android devices( not the racer) and when in wifi coverage it uses wi-fi, move out of wifi coverage use 3g, it would seem this racer is a badly implemented form of android
@Ewan -- yes sounds like the ZTE kills battery. Not good at all.
@Rafe -- agree on the importance of the budget category. Would like to see low-to-mid-range comparisons as as well.
OK I'll schedule, or at least make a note, to do a mid-range comparison. Maybe the �200-�250 area. Be interesting to do this with a Symbian^3 device and Android 2.2 if possible too. Might mean later in the year.
gadget freak wrote:I take the point about not mentioning the Desire or anything else, and to not be able to disable 3g easily is a pain, but the fact is why have a smartphone if you don't want to be connected? isn't the whole purpose of an android phone to be constantly in sync with google apps etc. exchange, location services.
I think that's a 'high end' aspiration that's not always attainable on a low-end PAYG budget.
At the sub-�100 mark I'd guess the people using these phones also want really cheap data services too so having to be connected all the time is going to eat into that budget.
Some carriers like Three solve that by giving you free Facebook/Twitter/MSN and even free email and Skype but in this comparison you've also got Ovi Maps v Google Maps. Ovi Maps allows completely offline navigation with no data connection. If that's important then it costs you much less for Ovi Maps than Google.
Unregistered wrote:I think that's a 'high end' aspiration that's not always attainable on a low-end PAYG budget.At the sub-�100 mark I'd guess the people using these phones also want really cheap data services too so having to be connected all the time is going to eat into that budget.
Some carriers like Three solve that by giving you free Facebook/Twitter/MSN and even free email and Skype but in this comparison you've also got Ovi Maps v Google Maps. Ovi Maps allows completely offline navigation with no data connection. If that's important then it costs you much less for Ovi Maps than Google.
That would be a very low end PAYG budget, as a �10 topup gives data for one month, or in the case of Three you get 3 months.
how many people that buy a low end device are going to bother syncing up with a computer? how many will pre load the maps? truth is the type that does that kind of thing will be buying at the higher end of the market
how many people that buy a low end device are going to bother syncing up with a computer?
how many will pre load the maps? truth is the type that does that kind of thing will be buying at the higher end of the market
That would be a very low end PAYG budget, as a �10 topup gives data for one month, or in the case of Three you get 3 months.
user47alpha wrote:Not many, because besides contacts, many people have absolutely no need for syncing there phones with a pc.Lucky for them, the needed maps are already preloaded (at least in germany), so even if they don't know it, Ovi Maps is a big advantage for them. If you assume that the targeted audience is completely clueless then Ovi Maps with already preloaded maps is an even bigger advantage because they will not tab in the "Oh look, I have nice google maps, lets use it without a dataplan and pay per MB without knowing how much this will cost me!"-trap..
ok fair enough but i had to load the maps on my e71, the irony of course is google maps on the e71 is more accurate than ovi maps in my experience.
user47alpha wrote:You do realise that if you invest �80 in the phone, a �10/month topup is a very big cost factor? I use my 5800 without a dataplan (most of the time) and am quite happy that it only connects to the internet when I want it to do so.
I do the topup when I ened it. When I am going away from home and won't have the access to WiFi that I do at home and work.
gadget freak wrote:ok fair enough but i had to load the maps on my e71, the irony of course is google maps on the e71 is more accurate than ovi maps in my experience.
My street isn't actually on Google Maps or TomTom either. It is on Ovi Maps.
But apart from that, the turn-by-turn navigation in Ovi Maps works much better than either Google or TomTom - again "in my experience" - especially in areas where the phone signal is marginal. When there's no signal at all, Ovi Maps with it's preloaded maps is the obvious winner.
What puzzles me though is there's no API a developer can use to embed Ovi Maps in their application which is why so many use Google Maps. Come on Nokia - that's stupid.
Unregistered wrote:My street isn't actually on Google Maps or TomTom either. It is on Ovi Maps.But apart from that, the turn-by-turn navigation in Ovi Maps works much better than either Google or TomTom - again "in my experience" - especially in areas where the phone signal is marginal. When there's no signal at all, Ovi Maps with it's preloaded maps is the obvious winner.
What puzzles me though is there's no API a developer can use to embed Ovi Maps in their application which is why so many use Google Maps. Come on Nokia - that's stupid.
That matches my experiences as well.
And also, rather bizarrely, none of the "mainstream" mapping services lists where my partner lives.
However, Openstreetmap does include it on their database. Which is used by Sportstracker. And obviously because of the apparent lack of a suitable API to the Ovi maps database.
well in my experience ovi maps puts me the best part of half a mile a way, while google locks me down almost to the yard. then magically i go back into ovi maps and i've moved to where i am!!!!
in short i open google maps to find me before i can use Ovi.(e71)
Of course Google maps on android obliterates ovi maps
ps: for symbian freaks engadget have a video of the c7 up
gadget freak wrote:well in my experience ovi maps puts me the best part of half a mile a way, while google locks me down almost to the yard. then magically i go back into ovi maps and i've moved to where i am!!!!
in short i open google maps to find me before i can use Ovi.(e71)Of course Google maps on android obliterates ovi maps
Google maps on anything couldn't obliterate anything with its amazing grey screen maps.
Google maps is something of a joke and is the bottom of the useful league, the totally ridiculous tile downloading can frequently mean it's often ally useless and with such a handicap it's not even at the races I can't believe anyone can even attempt to argue for it.
Also, these fictional position errors on Ovi Maps, never seen them.
U
Unregistered wrote:Google maps on anything couldn't obliterate anything with its amazing grey screen maps.Google maps is something of a joke and is the bottom of the useful league, the totally ridiculous tile downloading can frequently mean it's often ally useless and with such a handicap it's not even at the races I can't believe anyone can even attempt to argue for it.
Also, these fictional position errors on Ovi Maps, never seen them.
Sorry fanboy those position errors are very real rendering ovi useless unless pre planned, google maps on android complete with layers, street view and turn by turn navigations wipes the floor with ovi, simple as that. Over to nokia to fight back we'll see.
gadget freak wrote:USorry fanboy
No need to apologise. You probably can't help it.
gadget freak wrote:
those position errors are very real rendering ovi useless unless pre planned, google maps on android complete with layers, street view and turn by turn navigations wipes the floor with ovi, simple as that. Over to nokia to fight back we'll see.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a HTC Desire user who is pissed off waiting for tiles to download, or not download as is often the case., How can a Maps application where you can't see the maps even make it to release? Joke. Justify invisible maps please? Any failure to justify them and you lose.
Forget it, you already lost. I'll sell you a blank sketch book and tell you it's a road atlas.
I've never seen half mile position errors on an sat nav ever. You can't just lie to make your point.
gadget freak wrote:I take the point about not mentioning the Desire or anything else, and to not be able to disable 3g easily is a pain, but the fact is why have a smartphone if you don't want to be connected? isn't the whole purpose of an android phone to be constantly in sync with google apps etc. exchange, location services.
Presumably not if the battery life is only five hours when it is constantly connected/connecting...
you cannot turn off the 3G radio in the ZTE because it is on 3 mobile and 3 mobile (being a 3G only network) require you to ALWAYS have 3G turned ON. <-- THIS
but you can turn off the network data transfer when you are away from wifi so zero data will be used (ie if you had no data plan/credit) by doing this:
# Open dialer.
# Dial *#*#4636#*#* to open �Testing� screen.
# Tap on Phone Information.
# Press the Menu key or button.
# Tap on More.
# Tap on Disable data connection to disconnect and make inactive any data connection immediately.
but that is not very friendly and easier way is to use the app APNdroid as mentioned.
THIS IS A MASSIVE FLAW IN ALL ANDROID phones running less than 2.2
Unregistered wrote:No need to apologise. You probably can't help it.I'm not a fanboy, I'm a HTC Desire user who is pissed off waiting for tiles to download, or not download as is often the case., How can a Maps application where you can't see the maps even make it to release? Joke. Justify invisible maps please? Any failure to justify them and you lose.
Forget it, you already lost. I'll sell you a blank sketch book and tell you it's a road atlas.
I've never seen half mile position errors on an sat nav ever. You can't just lie to make your point.
What possible reason would i have for lying on an internet forum, fact is i work at moorfields eye hospital and ovi maps puts me at shoreditch park half a mile away every time, so there you go why not ask our fellow posters how accurate Ovi maps is. My Desire loads maps quicker than ovi and loads everytime maybe you should take yours back mr unregistered troll
buster wrote:Presumably not if the battery life is only five hours when it is constantly connected/connecting...
This is correct, the battery life on android phones is a big deal breaker, i would recommend them as great gadgets and if your in the office during they day when you can top up your charge fine.
But for enterprise users, salesman or generally people who are out and about all day you just cannot justify them, those people must be connected all day everyday and i would still say a blackberry or an E71 is the device to have.
I still say as well nokia should go after Rim, the Apple v Google war they want to steer away from.