Application auto-update the way to go - as part of a two-pronged strategy?

while I haven't used an iphone myself, I see the definite advantage of having a central location tell us that there are updates available. Since (logically) this would only work for software purchased from the Ovi store, Nokia will need to put in a serious effort to attract developers to the platform.

Opening it up to *all* symbian OS devices (not just Nokia branded phones), would be a necessary step. The other major steps were recently made (simpler/cheaper signing process, uploading new versions, etc).

I've been using Gravity for over a year now, and while the application's auto-notification of updates is brilliant, I find that directly following the author (@janole) gives us faster access to the updates. He posts links to new versions more often than he updates the Update tab. Of course, this is for pre-Alpha versions, so that is not unexpected. (A nice feature that he could add would be a preference option for "give me scary updates" vs "give me released versions" in the Updates tab. Would make sure that the average user is recommended only tested and vetted versions, and would allow advanced users access to bleeding edge versions.

I would argue that Maemo does this better than any mobile OS.

All the devs do is update the version in the repository, and mameo automatically notices the new version and shows updates available in the n900's notification area.

WIN.

I agree that following developers on twitter is often the easiest way to become aware of updates, but you have to spot them in the stream of other updates, and you then have to act upon that knowledge - download sis, install...

I find Gravity's system great, but it can be easy to notice that an update's waiting for you, if your focus is on open app > check twitter > check facebook > read news > close app.

I'm also somewhat bewildered by Nokia's glacial pace of development of the Ovi Store client with regard to update notifications, since they implemented an update application for system software.

Another option is the one followed by one software publisher - I forget who - who demanded registration with an email address, and then justified that by emailing an updated *.sis file to registered users. If you've got on-device email set up, that makes things even easier.

Personally, I don't think that any application which needs network access to function has an excuse for not regularly checking for updates - and that doesn't include an option to open Web and check manually - and it is in the interests of all developers to provide an easy update route for users so users respect the developer and don't lose faith if they find a bug or have been waiting for functionality improvements.

Since Nokia hasn't done this for you, and more importantly since Symbian =\= Nokia, despite what the uninformed may assume to the contrary, developers need to do it for themselves.

j d wrote:I would argue that Maemo does this better than any mobile OS.

All the devs do is update the version in the repository, and mameo automatically notices the new version and shows updates available in the n900's notification area.

WIN.

I agree. If only the application manager wasn't so sloooow.

Profimail on Symbian informs the user of available updates, it works beautifully. I prefer the updates to come from within the application because users and developers are not constrained to distributing apps through one monopolising outlet.

The trouble with the application auto update model is that you have to start the app to see if there is an update. Fine if you only have ten apps installed. But I have 223 apps on my iPhone, and its great that I can just check one place to see if there are updates.
I realise that I am probably not the norm not everyone would have as many apps, but even so, I would have loved to have had the same function on my Symbian phones.

Surely the model preferred by Steve is that the application checks for updates when you open it? If you haven't opened it then you don't need an update because you aren't using it. As soon as you do open it (and therefore need the update) you'll get served it. An exception would be applications that run as services - these might need to issue a notification to some central place.

I agree that N900 has the best way, but it is hampered by a slow manager, also the interface itself is not very user friendly.

Android Froyo allows users to update softwares all at once, I wonder why the author mentions it so passingly (atrocious word I know). Yes you may argue that 'Android is fragmented' (so spoketh a Symbian user!) but Froyo is being pushed out to all sorts of devices, even the D1, through rooting and ROMs, and installing custom ROMs on Android is easier than ever.

Symbian, oh symbian. Firstly, the platform is fragmented. Secondly, the 'flavours' of the OS are fragmented according to the maker's brand. Thirdly, the Ovi store is fragmented according to device. Fourthly, the devices are fragmented according to regions. And why bother, since most apps are not worth the trouble of using a Symbian phone anyway.

I SO wish Nokia adopt Maemo/Meego as their platform of choice. Maemo, despite on its last legs, is as good as Android and better in some respects.

LCGs Xplore does auto update.
Basically all LCG apps can check and automatically install an update if its available also the UC browser can do the same thing.

I'm on the fence.

I can see benefits to applications self-updating, such as access to betas, and for many it works well. But it does require far more button presses in the long run compared to a centralised update all option.

However, the main reason to have a centralised updating mechanism is because it's safer. Say I'm an evil hacker and somehow compromise the servers of an app that self-updates. I put up a fake update with some kind of malware in it. You see an update, you install it, you send me premium rate text messages or something.

I'm not saying that scenario is impossible on the App Store just that you need to get an application approved first and that extra step adds a layer of security.

Of course app stores being the only method of installing apps is another kettle of fish...

@Biggles,

Sorry, you're wrong. The only way to update binaries is through the software-install mechanism. Updates need to be signed as well. Taking updates from a developers server is no more or less dangerous than taking an app from there in the first place.

Sorry Steve, but this article is yet another attempt to justify Symbian's shortcomings and present them as advantage of some kind.

You say that app-integrated update might be a good thing and give 2 advantages:

1. the user doesn't have to lift a finger

Your example would mean that you start an app, intending to use it, instead your workflow gets interrupted by update process - restart of app etc.

For me, true definition of 'doesn't have to lift a finger' approach is system as implemented in Android 2.2 at the moment, when you check whether app should be able to update automatically and from that point on, you don't do a damn thing. It's always up to date. Even better would be if this option were on by default (on wifi), so mainstream users would have apps always updated. IF (stressing IF) you feel the need, you might install latest alpha/beta as apk package file, same as in Symbian.

Iphone OS is close, but doesn't have the automatic update capability as far as I know...

2. updates obtained from the developer's server will be bang up to date

True, but there are two major problems with this:

1) You might not always want to go for the latest, greatest alpha version available. With Gravity, this works because janole is such a great developer, but even with him there were several times when one update was following the other, fixing something broke in the previous alpha.

2) How do you get the information? Certainly, you can follow social media channel - twitter etc. of the developer. But honestly, regular Joe the user doesn't even perhaps know what twitter is, and surely you cannot expect mainstream users to follow app developers for such simple task of keeping apps updated.
I have some 70 apps installed on my phone at the moment, following just 2 or 3 devs. For entirely different reasons than updates 😊

I can see the approach perhaps working for you, since you're interested in Telco, but for normal users this is simply too complicated, time consuming and awkward to use.

I didn't write this to do some Symbian trolling that's so popular nowadays, but in hopes that Symbian folks will stop whitewashing Symbian's faults and try to push it to reach level of other modern mobile OS.

payaxy
(previously Symbian, now happy Android user)

I also like the Update and Operation of Lonely Cat Games . While using X-Plore you will get a reminder to check for Updates after a period of use . You can neglect or accept the reminder .
What's more : also (in my case using Opera Mini) one can visit the website to check the current version and download the file to the filemanager first . From there the install can be done .
This way you can store the old version . It is of great benefit , when the Updated version has glitches , which are not on the former version .
Shortly : from filemanager I reinstalled X-Plore 1.42 after I found glitches in V. 1.45 .

😊 Regards jApi NL

talhamid wrote:I agree that N900 has the best way, but it is hampered by a slow manager, also the interface itself is not very user friendly.

Android Froyo allows users to update softwares all at once, I wonder why the author mentions it so passingly (atrocious word I know). Yes you may argue that 'Android is fragmented' (so spoketh a Symbian user!) but Froyo is being pushed out to all sorts of devices, even the D1, through rooting and ROMs, and installing custom ROMs on Android is easier than ever.

Symbian, oh symbian. Firstly, the platform is fragmented. Secondly, the 'flavours' of the OS are fragmented according to the maker's brand. Thirdly, the Ovi store is fragmented according to device. Fourthly, the devices are fragmented according to regions. And why bother, since most apps are not worth the trouble of using a Symbian phone anyway.

I SO wish Nokia adopt Maemo/Meego as their platform of choice. Maemo, despite on its last legs, is as good as Android and better in some respects.

That really is BS. Any phone OS will get to that point once it matures, Maemo will go the same way, Android is already there. The only way to avoid completely fragmenting in that way is to take the iPhone route and have a single platform with minimal variation as with iPhone/iPad.

Today I became completely hacked off with my Android phone that I am trying to persevere with and have gone back to the iPhone while I wait for the new Symbian ^3 / ^4 stuff to arrive. All the hype and bull about Android and in my experience it is complete crap. I find it halarious how many criticisms of old Symbian are equally valid against Android.

The one thing more likely to send me to iPhone and not Symbian/ Maemo for my next phone is the handset firmware updates coming to the user at the mercy of the carrier they purchased the phone from. I wish Nokia could do the same thing.

I used the Nokia AU site to try and find prices for a new phone, just to check how much I would need when I do upgrade in six months time perhaps and I could not find a way on the site to buy an unlocked unbranded phone from Nokia AU so I did not end at the mercy of some indifferent carrier.

As for third party apps I download myself, I usually only look for an update for symbian apps if I have a problem. For my iPad I regularly check for updates and download them to my computer then update the device through iTunes when I next sync it.

I am more willing to update my Apple app store stuff due to the simplicity of the process. I have had issues in the past with symbian apps not installing correctly and needing to install a second time to get it right.

brendand wrote:@Biggles,

Sorry, you're wrong. The only way to update binaries is through the software-install mechanism. Updates need to be signed as well. Taking updates from a developers server is no more or less dangerous than taking an app from there in the first place.

Assuming that all applications are signed. A high proportion of Symbian users hack their phones to install unsigned apps, including ones that update themselves.

Biggles wrote:A high proportion of Symbian users hack their phones to install unsigned apps

Might be a high proportion in certain circles but out of all Symbian users I bet that the proportion is very small.

Biggles wrote:Assuming that all applications are signed. A high proportion of Symbian users hack their phones to install unsigned apps, including ones that update themselves.

This is getting slightly sideways, but in my opinion the whole Symbian Signed process is a golden example of the way in which security regimes become self-defeating because they aggravate users into circumventing them.

There are several other reasons why people hack Symbian phones, but circumventing the whole infuriating signing process for cool and powerful apps from developers too low-key or frustrated to sign themselves is definitely at the top of the list.

Just look at how popular jailbreaking is on the iPhone, as well.

@ Biggles,
Well, installing an unsigned update on a hacked phone can be as safe as downloading updates from an appstore if you follow the 2 golden rules:
1. Don't be the first one to update. First, let others in the symbian underground scene (or hacker communities if you insist!) try the update. If they show a green signal, you're good to go. And normally this 'testing' process takes a few hours, so its no big deal.
2. Always keep a backup of important data. In this way, even if you mess things up, you're only a hard-reset (and an hour or two) away from recuperating. This is more of a last resort, but by following rule 1 carefully you can almost negate this possibility.
And for an example of safe unsigned apps, look no further, the HX firmwares are the best example. They are not apps, but they are theoretically able to do much harm as they get into the system core. Yet, they are 100% safe. Back to the topic, Google maps also notifies of an update automatically. Count it in.

@Biggles - as I said, it's no more or less dangerous. If you hack your phone to install unsigned apps then you're explicitly inviting anything and everything on to your phone. Any unwanted consequences are your own problem and while I understand hacking devices is part of the smartphone culture, no attention should be given to it when formulating application deployment strategies.

Also, I'm quite sure you're overestimating the prevelance of that practice anyway - regardless of the operating system in question. It's more common amongst iOS users I would say due to the huge amount of restriction Apple place on the system.

Looking at the apps on my E90, I don't think any of them check for updates automatically. So, if it's a toss-up between having centralised control a la Apple with semi-automated update checking or having the checking done on an ad hoc basis by individual developers, with the result that most apps remain un-updated without a lot of checking, I prefer the Apple model. And as an iPod Touch owner, the on-device App Store app is superb. However, the level of control they exert over what goes into the App store is totally unacceptable in a democratic world, and I really believe that this will come round and bite them in the backside in the next year or so...

"A high proportion of Symbian users hack their phones to install unsigned apps"

Only if you call 0.001% a high proportion... Give me strength.... [FX: sighs]

I must aggree with payaxy, I don't see a pro on the fact that Ovi Store doesn't have an update mechanism.
Devs who doesn't want to use the Ovi Store have to develope their own update mechanism in every case, so I see a two way strategy:

1) Ovi Store provides updates as painless as possible
2) Apps which doesn't come from the Ovi Store do their own thing

Biggles wrote:A high proportion of Symbian users hack their phones to install unsigned apps, including ones that update themselves.

ClockworkZombie wrote:The one thing more likely to send me to iPhone and not Symbian/ Maemo for my next phone is the handset firmware updates coming to the user at the mercy of the carrier they purchased the phone from. I wish Nokia could do the same thing.

Changing a product code is very easy and so there is no carrier dependency. I have tested the warranty myth, and it's a non issue.

ClockworkZombie wrote:
I am more willing to update my Apple app store stuff due to the simplicity of the process. I have had issues in the past with symbian apps not installing correctly and needing to install a second time to get it right.

I've had plenty of App store installs on my iPhone where the install has just stalled and needing to be restarted. Also apps that have installed but immediately exit when they launch requiring a reinstall. All on my "perfect" iPhone.

Tsepz_011 wrote:I prefer Android's way far more than Symbian. As someone said before, the app specific way can totaly kill the user's flow. I remember many times on my 5800 where id boot Tweets60, UCWeb, Ovi Store, Nokia Messaging Email etc... when wanting to quickly use them and a moment after boot up especialy with Ovi Store, you get the update prompt,update and the app has to then shutdown and then booted up again and with Tweets60 this would be annoying as it would have to reload all those Tweets. .

The app specific way with an app like profimail might well offer an update but you can choose to ignore it. I don't know why Tweets60 is designed like that but it doesn't need to be.

I really hate being locked into a single source. I much prefer being able to buy from where I like and handle the installation files etc.

For some reason with my Android, I get new update notifications in the top bar, but if I miss them they clear and never come back. Pretty shite really.

talhamid : I'm not agree with you. I like a lot the N900 interface and if you think that the application manager is too slow you can install 'Fast application manager", an application that have the same features than the application manager and do the same job but faster !

Unregistered wrote:Changing a product code is very easy and so there is no carrier dependency. I have tested the warranty myth, and it's a non issue.

I've had plenty of App store installs on my iPhone where the install has just stalled and needing to be restarted. Also apps that have installed but immediately exit when they launch requiring a reinstall. All on my "perfect" iPhone.

I have read of people NOT getting warranty service if the product code has been changed it probably depends on your country I have had dud applications that do not work after installation but not apps that do not install, this may be the same thing though.

ClockworkZombie wrote:I have read of people NOT getting warranty service if the product code has been changed it probably depends on your country I have had dud applications that do not work after installation but not apps that do not install, this may be the same thing though.

Unless the problem with the phone was caused by the change of product code, then I don't see how the warranty shouldn't stand.