For those of you that felt the P800 was released unfinished.

C'Mon.

The P800 was announced in March 2002 and was only availble in March 2003 - They had 12 months of development time -- an who knows how much prior to announcement.

Many of the Apps are half baked. Just look at items such as
-- MP3 Player is only basic
-- E-mail has limitation and misses out on facilities provided in the most basic POP e-mail software
-- Phone call lists are impossible to export

So we all have to go out and buy apps to fill the gaps that Sony Ericsson left.

The mp3 player is pretty basic, but ive had a few normal ones, and the only function i used that isnt on the P800 was shuffle.
I have never even looked for call list exporting! Didnt know you could do it!

What features are missing from the email?

There are a few niggles, but overall for the amount of stuff in the phone i think they did pretty well, although a built in file manager would have been nice. Just saying its not bad when compared to other things out there. You'd have to try a 606 to see how wrong things could have gone.

[quote="sidneylopsides"] the P800 i feel is very well finished, with great potential, unlike some of its (kind of) rivals[/quote]

Agreed! It's the most complete and stable device I've had in a long time. Sure one might argue the lack of this and that and that some things are a little too basic, but hey, that's where having an open OS comes in hand.

Let's just take a look at some of the competition shall we... -How about the Palm Tungsten W? -That's got to rock huh, having all the power of the T/T with added phone capabilities? -Wrong! What you get is a step backwards, where the Tungsten W actually goes back to the older version of the Palm OS, even cutting back on processor power and RAM and doing an extremely poor attemt of integrating the phone functions. The poor thing doesn't even have a speakerphone, let alone a way of answering a call without having to plug in the headset. Well, that's not going to be too big of a problem you might think, I can just use my Bluetooth headset...-Wrong! The stupid thing doesn't even have BT integrated.

And what about the Orange SPV and his brothers in arms; the Qtek 7070, the SPVx, the "Smart Amazing Phone", or whatever the different versions are called around the world? Wow, a Windows powered phone, wow, having the backup of the biggest company in the world, making software for ages... -That's got to be one well thought out stable platform having your phone run huh? -Wrong! The infamous blue screen of death several times a day, slowdowns, a processor that's pushed way too hard, just about every toothache of the older PC Windows versions now crammed in a tiny smartphone.

I'm sick of all these complainers who don't know di@k about anything, showing off their ignorance in online forums by slagging off the P800. It's the best damn phone/PDA hybrid out there, and probably will be for quite some time still. Remember, it can only get better. Give the developers some time to get accustomed to this new OS/UI, and great things will come. Until then, the P800 makes a great companion to go with your PDA/Notebook(for all you hardcore users out there). I know my P800 will make a great partner to my soon to arrive, brand new(never been used), HP Jornada 720 handheld. :bday:

Raven I wish to shake you hand.... sanity finallt prevails

Raven,

yep and I enjoy all the basic pda functions of the p800 and when I need to use a keyboard to type up a report or two I use my psion 5 (which made me a star at uni....all those lectures typed straight into what is still the finest pda for keyboard use....just aimed it at the printer and a copy for all my colleagues!)

I used the 5 with my p800 for the first time the other day to do some hefty emails....all worked together like a dream. 😃

i'm dead chuffed with my p800 because i never ysed my ipaq to the full, but i get to use every aspect of my p800 and it has pretty much everything i could ask for except for not being able to play windows media files cry .

The nec e606 is a git phone to use, i'm waiting for my bro to finish his contract and the sony erricsson z1010 to come out b4 i even think of 3G.

If some developer out there wouldn't mind making a player that plays windows media files plz.

T1mC,

Yeah, I've been thinking about getting a Psion too. I really wanted an Epoc device to go with my P800, but I finally decided to go with the 720 in stead. I need a real keyboard and a good screen, and the hardware side of the Jornada is quite impressing even with todays standards. It's 65K colour, 640 � 240 pixels screen running a 32-bit StrongARM processor at 206MHz should be sufficient even for Win CE, and hell, if it's not I could always replace it with Linux. It's also quite a bit smaller and lighter than the Psion machines, I just hope the 3/4 sized keyboard will be comfortable to type on..
😊

[quote="Raven"] It's the best damn phone/PDA hybrid out there, and probably will be for quite some time still. Remember, it can only get better.[/quote]

Agree with you 100%. I've had many people asking me why i would want such a "big" phone..............they of course haven't heard of the P800 and its features.

[quote="Raven"]I'm sick of all these complainers who don't know di@k about anything, showing off their ignorance in online forums by slagging off the P800. [/quote]

It seems that you are one of the people that like to make statements which puts people in small boxes. "Either you are with me or against me". This [to me] is MORE of a sign of ignorance in online forums. Without people expressing thier opinions, forums wouldn't exist and the items/people the opinions are about wouldn't have a chance to learn of what the populace thinks.

I agree that many people put down the P800 but that doesn't mean that they are ignorant. Many people praise the P800 but that doesn't make them more any more informed than others. They don't have a vision of how things are that the 'ignorant' ones cannot see.

I have owned a P800 for several months. I shopped for a phone, while educating myself, for several months before making my decision on the P800 and pre-ordering one with SE. Currently I know of no match for the P800 but that doesn't make it a Killer Phone. Pair the P800 phone with poor or inacurate information on the SE website (I'll be glad to point out several examples if necessary), poor knowledge in SE customer service on the P800 and it's accesories, and poor knowledge in SE Technical Support on the P800's accesories and how they work together with the P800. Then there are the bugs in the phone. These problems have been well discussed in this forum and I don't need to go through them again. MOST of these problems can be fixed or have been fixed by firmware upgrades. Several upgrades have already been released. SE email support (in the USA) won't tell me where to get a firmware upgrade or even that one exists. They just insist that if you have a problem, you should call. This is absurd.

It is the cumulation of the things mentioned above factored together that brings down the P800 from being a killer phone. What I consider to be the failure of the P800 is not necessarily in the hardware, software or applications but rather in the corporate stance in how they support thier product.

My opinions can be changed by SE changing the way they do business, train their support personel, support thier hardware and treat their customers. I don't expect this though. I still hold my belief that when a phone is released by a competitor that is all the P800 is but has the support to back the phone, then the P800's days will be over. It will be remembered as a great phone that couldn't get it's act together.

Cranium:

You took every bit of angst and frustration I have out of my mouth. No one can doubt how great the P800 is. But until SE has the support to match its potentials, it remains a shell full of potential that just can't be realised.

Palm was imperfect, simplistic. But look how great a community it has garnered. Why doesn't this kind of community exist for P800? It may have to do with how approachable friendly the system is. I'm sorry, but SE just doesn't cut it on this level. Code Warrior and the ridiculous app forge etc doesn't help either. SE must make even the high school kid want to create some simple program for the platform without feeling he has to be a rich and big software developer company.

P800 is great. But how great will it be when its master keeps it on a leash bounded by economics and stupidity?

Raven
you said you don't like people comlaining when they don't know anything!
I have the P800 and love it, but I had an SPV before and never once had a blue screen of death. It is MUCH more intuitive to use as a phone once you have spent an hour or so with it.
I prefer my P800, it is without a doubt better, but watch out for Smartphone 2003 if it comes about with better hardware backers, the OS is pretty good.
Still, Symbian will come out with UIQ 2.1 by then, and be better still 😃

[quote="Cranium"]It seems that you are one of the people that like to make statements which puts people in small boxes.[/quote]

[quote="Cranium"]Without people expressing thier opinions, forums wouldn't exist and the items/people the opinions are about wouldn't have a chance to learn of what the populace thinks.[/quote]

Not at all. You must be blind not to notice all the ignorant comments about the P800 coming from people who didn't even bother to read the user manual, or simply don't have a clue how electronic devices work. If you have a problem, ask about it here and you might just find out there is a fix, rather than just starting to put the P800 down from a problem that just may lie within your service provider/operator rather than the P800. I've found a majority of the negative comments to come from ignorance one way or another.

Take a look at the S60 or communicator part of this forum compared to this one and perhaps you'll understand what I'm talking about. Do you think those devices have any less flaws or bugs? -No. They just don't choose to EMPHASIZE and FOCUS on only the negative points like, not especially this one, but most of the P800 forums out there does. In fact I prefer this forum in that regard. Just take a look at the Esato forums -Nothing but hostillity and negativity. Who wouldn't get scared off buying a P800 visiting that forum?! And I'm sad to see that the My-Symbian forums is becoming more and more like Esato. I suppose that is the prize of popularity and diversety of people. I've visiteted ALOT of different forums to find out about a product I'm curious about, but NEVER have I found more hostility and negativity in a forum than in the various P800 forums(especially Esato). This forum is actuallly quite great compared to the others -dare I say more popular/busy ones. Who would have guessed that people in some P800 forums actually own one, the way they go on with petty complaining/bickering about the smallest things, I wouldn't.

[quote="Cranium"]I agree that many people put down the P800 but that doesn't mean that they are ignorant. Many people praise the P800 but that doesn't make them more any more informed than others. They don't have a vision of how things are that the 'ignorant' ones cannot see.[/quote]

Actually in many cases it's in fact just that, ignorance. Most of the compainers are "newbies" having bought a device that wasn't meant for them to use in the first place, and most of the non-complainers have used it many months and know how things work by know.

[quote="Cranium"] Pair the P800 phone with poor or inacurate information on the SE website (I'll be glad to point out several examples if necessary), poor knowledge in SE customer service on the P800 and it's accesories, and poor knowledge in SE Technical Support on the P800's accesories and how they work together with the P800.[/quote]

Yes, please show me some examples. I think the SE website is quite informative. I suspect this is more of problem USA citizens are experiencing, I don't know.

[quote="Cranium"]Then there are the bugs in the phone. These problems have been well discussed in this forum and I don't need to go through them again.[/quote]

What bugs? Please refresh my memory.

[quote="Cranium"]MOST of these problems can be fixed or have been fixed by firmware upgrades. Several upgrades have already been released.[/quote]

It's funny then that I'm still on the very first firmware version and haven't experienced half of the problems that people seem to be having even with the latest firmwares. Many of these problems seems to be user-caused by either messing with the file system or other neglectful usage. Remember, the more advanced technology gets, the more (user-caused) errors will happen. If you're looking for just a cool cell phone, this is NOT the device for you. If you're looking for a phone with PDA functionality, the P800 might be just what you need.

[quote="Cranium"]SE email support (in the USA) won't tell me where to get a firmware upgrade or even that one exists. They just insist that if you have a problem, you should call. This is absurd.[/quote]

I don't know anything about the service you are getting in the USA, but here in Norway it appears to be top notch.

[quote="Cranium"]What I consider to be the failure of the P800 is not necessarily in the hardware, software or applications but rather in the corporate stance in how they support thier product.[/quote]

Again I wouldn't know about the support you're getting in the states, but in Europe it seems to be very good compared to other companies.
If you're talking about the support, or rather LACK OF, the developers are getting from SE, then I would completely agree.

[quote="Cranium"]I still hold my belief that when a phone is released by a competitor that is all the P800 is but has the support to back the phone, then the P800's days will be over. It will be remembered as a great phone that couldn't get it's act together.[/quote]

What company would that be then? And in which reality? Again, as far as I can tell SE seems to be one of the few companies to actually listen to their consumers. Releasing firmware update after update trying to improve their products. Although this should of course have been made easier(especially for US customers) by allowing for "home updates".

I think I may have explained myself a little poorly this time, but I hope you get my point. I have nothing against newbies asking questions, and I always(usually) try to answer in a polite and informative manner. And I have nothing against discussing negative points/problems, but what I do have something against is people(trolls) who ONLY come here(a P800 forum) to put it down. And generally people emphasizing on problems without having the will to LEARN how to fix it.

[quote="guest"]I have the P800 and love it, but I had an SPV before and never once had a blue screen of death.[/quote]

Are you saying that you have never experienced "hangs"/"crashes"/"slowdowns" using an SPV? 😮 Guess you are one of(the few) lucky ones then.. 😉

Wow,this topic again?I agree that Raven might have gone off a little,its not forbidden 😊

@Raven,I think that we can agree that I spend a lot of time in UIQ and Series 60 forums and I can tell you that the situations is identical.

There too you can find people posting just with one purpose,to put the device down(I try to put down every device in every forum as much as I can 😊 ),and there too you can find people who claim that their device is perfect and they don't know of any bugs or haven't experienced any.

What bugs? Please refresh my memory.It's funny then that I'm still on the very first firmware version and haven't experienced half of the problems that people seem to be having even with the latest firmwares

Like you said,you must be one of the lucky ones 😊

And lets not bring the SPV in to this.First of all,the SPV is a smartphone,the p800 is a PDA/Smartphone combo,would you compare a pickup with a MAN truck (Rough example maybe 😊 ).The SPV could be compared to x650 devices but even in that case,the outcome does not look good for the SPV.[/quote]

Im glad to have started such a rousing topic!
I do agree partly with cranium, SE somehow managed to lose the edge to make it a killer phone, but the support here in the uk seems excellent.
Ravens comments about truely ignorant people are true also, there are so many people out there that simply wont understand if they dont want to, i deal with them everyday.

[quote="GhostDog"]Wow,this topic again?I agree that Raven might have gone off a little,its not forbidden 😊[/quote]

Indeed. Exaggerating to make a point is my way of writing.

[quote="GhostDog"]There too you can find people posting just with one purpose,to put the device down(I try to put down every device in every forum as much as I can 😊 ),and there too you can find people who claim that their device is perfect and they don't know of any bugs or haven't experienced any.[/quote]

I have never claimed that the P800 is perfect, you know that, that is not the point I'm trying to make.

What bugs? Please refresh my memory.It's funny then that I'm still on the very first firmware version and haven't experienced half of the problems that people seem to be having even with the latest firmwares

[quote="GhostDog"]Like you said,you must be one of the lucky ones 😊[/quote]

Not at all. I've had it for more than 6 MONTHS now, and I know how to use it. It has nothing to do with luck.

[quote="GhostDog"]And lets not bring the SPV in to this.First of all,the SPV is a smartphone,the p800 is a PDA/Smartphone combo,would you compare a pickup with a MAN truck (Rough example maybe 😊 ).The SPV could be compared to x650 devices but even in that case,the outcome does not look good for the SPV.[/quote]

I wouldn't really compare them no, but I brought it up because many people seems to do just that. And in regards to them both running a "real" OS I think some comparison will be fair enough. Although you and me both know how superior Symbian is to Windows.. 😉

I might have gone off a little too 😊

My point was that sometimes users(WE) are lucky and sometimes not, IE: While everyone suffered from the Memory Full problem,nothing happened to my Nokia 7650,instead of that,the Bluetooth broke down.I've had it replaced,no problems since.

Although you and me both know how superior Symbian is to Windows..

You've touched my soft spot (In a not gay way) 😃

aside from some of the mentioned things what i'd like for my p800 is

You know from the James Bond Tomorrow never dies film yeah i that's what i want, a remote car driving thingy. If that fails i'd settle for the electrick shocker. And if they can't deliver on that then atleast make a twin sim for the thing pweeese. angel

[quote="Raven"][quote="Cranium"] Pair the P800 phone with poor or inacurate information on the SE website (I'll be glad to point out several examples if necessary), poor knowledge in SE customer service on the P800 and it's accesories, and poor knowledge in SE Technical Support on the P800's accesories and how they work together with the P800.[/quote]

Yes, please show me some examples. I think the SE website is quite informative.
[/quote]

Some of these examples are from the USA only site, some are from the international site, and some are from the http://shopwireless.sonyericsson.com site (don't know if this is USA only)

Example #1: When I first ordered my P800 I had shopped for an additional phone holder. The website had the CDW-10 Desk/Wall Stand as an accessory for it. I called to verify that it was correct and the customer service person verified that it was. I placed the order for the CDW-10 along with pre-ordering the P800. When it arrived, the CDW-10 was too small for the phone. I called and asked SE to pay to have it shipped back, and they say [quote="Sony Ericsson"]We can't do that.[/quote]This is after they even acknowledged that the website did have it listed as an accessory. They would reimburse the price of the CDW-10 but I had to pay to send it back. This was corrected on their website shortly thereafter.

Example #2: The Advanced Car Handsfree (HCA-20) states: [quote="Sony Ericsson Website"]To get the most out of the HCA-20, it can be completed with the Advanced music mute cable/[/quote]Odd thing is the HCA-20 has a wire on it labled "music mute cable". This Yellow wire is mentioned but not documented on how to use it. But just in case, there is a music mute cable they list seperately (in case you accidently cut off the wire attached to the HCA-20?). And in the documentation, just to keep you confused, it mentions the Advanced Music Mute (HCE-16) as an addon to mute the radio. Now try to easily find ANY information on their site about the HCE-16. On top of that I call the SE customer service and Tech support and all of them are baffled and can't even find the HCE-16 in their computers. What do you use to mute the music: the music mute wire on the HCA-20, purchase the Advanced music mute cable or purchase the HCE-16??

Example #3: Antenna Cable (HCE-12): The website states [quote="Sony Ericsson Website"]Requires the Advanced Vehicle Handsfree HCA-20[/quote] I again spoke to SE customer service AND Tech support who both confirmed that I needed to purchase the HCA-20 in order to use the HCE-12. This is completely FALSE INFORMATION on thier site. The ONLY thing needed with the HCE-12 is the Car Holder (HCH-32). I have emailed them twice about this discrepancie, spoken to customer service who referred me to tech support who referred me back to customer service to report the issue. This has been several weeks and their website still displays the false information.

Example #4: In Global Accessories it lists the Music Mute Cable (MMC) with a description of [quote="Sony Ericsson Website"]Mutes radio for incoming calls[/quote] What does this work with???? What is required???? This must be the cable mentioned in Example #2 in case you accidently cut off the yellow wire from the HCA-20.

Example #5: The Business Kit (IBK-20) states [quote="Sony Ericsson Website"]the Business Kit IBK-20 is everything you need to complete your P800.[/quote] The ONLY thing in the kit that didn't come with the phone allready is the case. If the case is what completes the P800 then why do they package an additional 3 styli, another useless strap, and an additional stereo handsfree? You need to double what came with the phone to be complete?

Example #6: There is no information on the SE site to list and document known bugs with the P800.

Example #7: There is no information on the SE site to list firmware updates, fixes and help users obtain firmware updates. Not only this but in the USA when I asked "Where can I obtain a firmware upgrade to fix some of the bugs in the phone?" I received this response: [quote="Sony Ericsson Email"]Because most products have multiple releases of software, which are dependent on target carriers, feature sets, and other factors, it is almost impossible to provide "current" software information.
If you are having problems with your phone, please call 1-800-374-2776 and our Customer Care Center will be happy to try to help you work through your problem.[/quote]They totally dodged the question. After reasking the question and pointing out they dodged the answer, I recieved essentially the same response.

These are dicrepancies that I found based on personal purchases, conversations with SE or site information found while researching a purchase. If I start digging I'm sure I can find many more. If this issue is isolated to the USA as Raven suggests (which many of the issues are not) then it still reflects badly on SE as a whole.

The P800 hardware is excellent,
SE needs only to provide us more software support,
(Debug, Camcorder, Office, RealOne�)

:fadein:

I just want to thank Cranium for documenting the same issue I have had with SE, both in the USA and in Asia (HKG).

A few rather interesting observations about the way SE does business (ex-Europe)...

1. Releasing the phone with no easy way of purchasing DUOs. Making it useless for serious users it was marketed for.
2. Releasing a useless viewer, with fonts that do not resize properly.
3. Releasing sync software that is ridiculously bloated, and, after 2 years, still does not work properly with Microsoft Outlook (the security modal dialogue box still comes up on sync, come on lazy bumps, Palm has fixed that one ages ago)

On the other hand, USA support, when it does not involve software issue, seems reasonable. I have had my batteries replaced free of charge on my T68mc/T68ie and my P800C here in the USA, through UPS ground, with minimal hassle.

Same thing can't be said of SE HKG though, it's a sub-contracted operation and will waste your time(by taking a day to "check" phone)/deny any defect in the phone then charging you to fix simple things (like replacing defective stereo headphones).

I rarely rant on the boards, but I too have had enough with SE. I love my P800, but unless SE improves it support services ex-Europe, I'll have to to the Nokia camp.

Kenny

[quote="Raven"]what I do have something against is people(trolls) who ONLY come here(a P800 forum) to put it down. And generally people emphasizing on problems without having the will to LEARN how to fix it.[/quote]

I agree with you on this point. People who experience problems should first try to find out what is causing the problem and if there is a fix for it or an acceptable workaround before ranting on the forums.

That is absolutely correct - we have to put up with a huge number of ignorant people on a daily basis in our line of work. I also agree with you and your initial comments at the beginning of this thread regarding 3 handsets. The NEC606 is an absolute design nightmare - with possibly the least intuitive interface ever. I'm fed up dealing with customers bringing back 3G handsets complaining that they just can't get to grips with them. Anyone who buys a lot of PC software should be used to patches and upgrades - so I'm not really surprised and/or dissapointed in the P800 with regards to this. Indeed, I'm pretty happy that we can keep upgrading it and it doesn't get outdated as quickly as all the other phones and PDA's we've all owned.

:fadein: