Hi, i'm a new user of 3650. I usually work with Ipaq 3950.
When i installed Appman, i notice that it shows 2 type of internal phone memory: one for storing data (which the file manager refer to as disk C😊 and the other as the one that the phone uses as it's working (processing) memory.
This is similar to the Ipaq. But in the Ipaq, we can assign manually (although the OS-->Pocket PC 2002 will mostly do the dynamic assigning of memory). This way, if, say we still have a disk memory of 4MB and the free working memory is only 1MB left, and we need more free memory , we can assign some of the unused disk memory and give it to working memory. So the disk will be just 1 MB and the working memory will be 4MB.
I know that we can compact (or free) some working memory using some application such as Stacker. But this is not the same as what we can do in Ipaq. Because in Ipaq, we not only free some working memory, but we actually change the disk size of the storage memory and give the new free memory to the working memory.
This principle is like partitioning your HD, take some space from disk C: and give it to D: (Using Partition Magic for example).
So is anyone know is there an application that can do this partitioning to the internal memory of the 3650? I would really love to be able to take some space from disk C: of the phone and assign it as a free working memory. And since i use an MMC, to store everything (apps, photo, mp3 etc.) i still have 2.8MB of disk C: free. While when working with some application, my working memory can sometimes go down from 2MB+ to about 300KB and sometimes less.
Because of that, i semotimes get "memory insufficient" (or something like that) error message that cause the application i work with to stop, and i would have to restart the phone before i can reload that application.
Please help me, and thank you in advance!
Davee, welcome to our nightmare. The only advice you will find in this forum is install everything to the MMC. There are no memory managers out there for this phone and it seems to leak memory about as fast as Win95 used to do it. We are crying out to developers to make an EMM386 like memory manager that would allow the phone to use the MMC to emulate some RAM.
Sorry could not provide more useful info.
😃 Thank you very much Kirill. Now that make sense why i can't find any software for this purpose in almost every online store including Handango.
What a shame though, having so much free C: memory that i did not use and can do anything about it to prevent getting an "Memory insufficient" error message while running an aplication. SIGH...
Anyway, with you and all those who are already calling (or should i say: yelling) out to the developers for a memory manager such as EMM386 that can emulate some MMC memory as the phone working memory, i too would like to be count in with you all.
Davee you are welcome. Let me correct you on one thing. C: is the internal phone memory. Files written in there take away from the "available" RAM. E: is the MMC card that is expandable. To help you understand the structure of the phone better download an excellent app written by a memeber of this forun Domi.
http://users.skynet.be/domi/fexplorer.htm
Cheers.
Thank you again Kirill 😃 I have installed FExplorer, and it's a very good software. And it's free too! THANK YOU!
I understand about the structure of the memory now.
If only there are some developers good enough to give us a memory emulator like the one you mention... Hopefully...
[quote="Kirill"]There are no memory managers out there for this phone and it seems to leak memory about as fast as Win95 used to do it.[/quote]How, exactly, do you determine that memory is leaking?
Memory leaking means that after you exist an application, all the RAM it used isn't freed up. In practice it means that if you run that particular leaking application multiple times, after a while all your available free memory is gone, and you cannot run that or any other application any longer (without rebooting).
Does that happen to you? If so, with what application(s)?
If that doesn't happen to you, my initial question still stands. Please, explain.
I did not pay attention to which apps cause this because rebooting once in a while does not bother me but YES when looking at the avaiable RAM in FExplorer I do notice that there is less and less RAM the longer the phone runs. This I always check with all apps closed (not using any manager like Smart Launcher, just the standard hold the menu key). So technically it could be some apps running that are hidden and don't close. Well need to pay more attention but seems like memory leaks to me and I have dealt with those before.
[quote="Kirill"]Davee you are welcome. Let me correct you on one thing. C: is the internal phone memory. Files written in there take away from the "available" RAM.[/quote]
Wrong. C: drive has nothing to do with RAM.
On the subject of EMM386, that's impossible, too. On ancient PC's with MS-DOS you couldn't use all installed memory without a memory manager. But you cannot add new memory chips to 7650 so your hope for EMM386 type of software is pointless.
Maybe you meant a virtual memory manager which could swap data from RAM to disk? That could be possible but remember that flash memory is much slower than RAM. It's like those ancient PC's with really slow hard disk and Windows/386 again 😉
So you are telling me that if you install 3 MB worth of programs onto drive C: you will still have all the available execution memory. I beg to differ but correct me if I am wrong please.
And why do you say that is is impossible to use the MMC card as virtual ram, just like windows would allocate room on an HDD for it.
[quote="Kirill"]And why do you say that is is impossible to use the MMC card as virtual ram, just like windows would allocate room on an HDD for it.[/quote]It is not impossible, but as far as I know, it is not a feature that exists in the Symbian OS as it stands today.
I'm with kiryll... the memory on drive C is used as RAM, as well as a hard disk.
[quote="Tatuagem"]I'm with kiryll... the memory on drive C is used as RAM, as well as a hard disk.[/quote]
Believe me, C drive is not RAM. C drive is just a disk where your data and application files are. When you run an application or open a file, it is loaded from disk to RAM. Technically C drive is of course a memory chip and not a spinning disk but it uses much slower memory than the RAM memory chips.
If you fill your C drive, you still have about 3 MB RAM free if you have no applications running.
There is also a RAM disk, the D drive. This is used for temporary files and size of it is about 400 kB.
well... going back to the days when I had my 7650, I remember that the more apps I installed in my cell phone, the less RAM memory I had available... that's the only thing that makes me think that the C drive's memory is used to run apps (aka as ram, I mean).... I don't have hard data to back this up and I'm not really in the mood to go install a bunch of crap on my phone's mem to prove my point, but I really don't think that I'll have a bunch of free ram after I fill my C drive with data... :-? :-? :-?
That maybe the case if some of the apps need to reside in memory(RAM- sLauncher),but like simeonbubblegum said the C drive is not RAM.
The memory thing sure is kinda complicated :turn-l:
I use a program called switcher for freeing up memory and it really works and prevents memory leak. It�s like the windows task manager..
It is not impossible, but as far as I know, it is not a feature that exists in the Symbian OS as it stands today.
It's not a feature of the OS in MS-DOS (Which Windows still runs on) either. It is implemented using a application just like any other. Just in Win95 and later the app is loaded by default and is managed by the "convenient" GUI.
[quote="forlan"]The memory thing sure is kinda complicated :turn-l:
I use a program called switcher for freeing up memory and it really works and prevents memory leak. It�s like the windows task manager..[/quote]
URL for switcher?
Is it reliable?
What other people's experiene with it?
Switcher is great,and best of all,its freeware,i guess that you can find it if you search our software directory: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/software/
[quote="Anonymous"][quote="forlan"]The memory thing sure is kinda complicated :turn-l:
I use a program called switcher for freeing up memory and it really works and prevents memory leak. It�s like the windows task manager..[/quote]
URL for switcher?
Is it reliable?
What other people's experiene with it?[/quote]
seems great...
http://www.ki-ag.de/html/tech/nokiaswitcher.html
to those saying that C: drive has nothing to do with the phone's working memory, here goes an extract of a text found on http://www.nokiagame.com/mobile/en/index.html:
"To play Nokia Game you need 3 MB free internal phone memory. If you have many applications installed on your internal phone memory or you have stored a large number of pictures, you can get out-of-memory errors while running Nokia Game. To prevent this, copy or move your applications and pictures from the phone memory to the memory card so they are deleted from internal phone memory."
...food for thought.
To clarify what others have said here, the type of memory on Symbian OS devices are:
ROM - typically between 8-16MB. Read only. However support XIP (execute in place, which basically means that the apps/libraries do not need to be loaded into Dynamic-RAM to be run). Usually mapped to Z: drive.
Dynamic RAM - typically 8-16MB. This is where program execution takes place. However it can become fragmented after an extended period of the phone running.
Flash RAM - generally NAND or serial flash. For internal Flash RAM usually 4MB (on S60, c: ), external Flash RAM (d: ) is whatever size MMC you have. The technology allows persistence of data why the phone is off, however it does not allow direct addressing of segments, and therefore does not support XIP or any other type or program execution. Any applications stored on FLash needs to be loaded into Dynamic RAM before execution.
If you are interested in seeing whats happening in your RAM real time, check out DevMan (on My-Symbian.com, handango, or www.mikeullrich.com). In the docs with it, there is also a small section describing memory fragmentation.
This is what my FExplorer is showing me:
C: = Flash RAM - 3,997MB
D: = RAM - 443,5KB
E: = MMC - 122,104MB
Z: = ROM - 17,813MB
So C-drive is for phone memory, E-drive is for the MMC (memory card), Z-drive is the read-only (ROM) that's where all the standard programs are installed (phonebook, calendar, camera etc..).
I guess then that D-drive is for, what you call Dynamic RAM. Where the executing takes place. But it is 443,5KB instead of the 8-16MB what you said.😕
yup, almost right! 😊
D: drive is actually a RAM Disk, like they used on the old Psion Series 5. Its kind of a scratch area for temporary files.
You will have 8MB of RAM on your phone (the Series 60 phones released so far have only 8MB of Dynamic RAM), of which 443KB is taken up by this RAM Disk.
Ok, thankz for clearing that up. 😊 So 443KB is for the temp. files and the other 7,5MB Dynamic RAM is used for programs that are running in the background?
You got it...
Of course, out of that 7.5MB comes all the different servers, application engines, etc which are all needed for the OS to run.
So reality is that there is usuablly between 3-5MB available for the user to run their own apps.
You can maximise the amount of memory available by using the "Close All Programs" feature in DevMan. This will close down all unnecessary servers, app engines and applications, allowing you a better chance at running thirst programs such as Doom...
Wonderstuff wrote:You got it...Of course, out of that 7.5MB comes all the different servers, application engines, etc which are all needed for the OS to run.
So reality is that there is usuablly between 3-5MB available for the user to run their own apps.
You can maximise the amount of memory available by using the "Close All Programs" feature in DevMan. This will close down all unnecessary servers, app engines and applications, allowing you a better chance at running thirst programs such as Doom...
Whats about nokia n-gage does it have more ram memory than 3650 and how can n-gage games work on 3650 , i think that n-gage uses mmc memory like ram!?
Like it was said,Symbian OS doesn't support virtual memory,the N-Gage has a lot more(double) RAM then the 3650 so it doesn't use MMC memory like RAM.
Don't detour this topic in to a discussion about cracked N-Gage games.
3650 has 8MB DRAM of which about 3.5MB is available for apps after the phone has started up.
N-Gage has 16MB DRAM of which about 10.5MB is available for apps after the phone has started up.