The FT has a lovely article with some commments from Juha Christensen (ex Symbian, now Microsoft), illustrating why Microsoft will win the Mobile Phone OS Wars. Highlights include [we] would like to work with Helsinki-based Nokia and Expect at least one major manufacturer to announce its support for Microsoft's Smartphone before the end of this year.
Microsoft Pocket PC 2003 Mobile Edition Windows Mobile (!)
[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]Highlights include [we] would like to work with Helsinki-based Nokia and Expect at least one major manufacturer to announce its support for Microsoft's Smartphone before the end of this year.[/quote]
Ofcourse they would like to be working with Nokia, but I don't see that happening soon... I wonder what they mean with expect to announce, do they have a big manufacturer signed already, or do they expect to sign one soon?
This is what's called Talking Up.
They think that by talking about trash as if it were roses, that it would suddenly become roses. Unfortunately, it's all trash.
Microsoft have so much to learn about making an OS designed for phones!
Huh! They think that changing something's name will make it better?
[quote="Judas"]
It's a little too early to be beating each other up - we should work together to grow the pie.
[/quote]
That's right, we should be working together - just ask Sendo!
The "we expect" comment is from the Gartner analysis and considering Samsung have already previewed a MS SMartphone and Motorola more or less announced one for one of the US operators the comment is hardly a stagering piece of research but neither enterprise is particularly significant particularly given Samsungs public statements about Symbian.
Juha's statement about working with MS is shear desparation - Nokia will grow the market even if no one else was interested but they have the close co-operation of Siemens and all the other Symbian licencees. Any success MS achieves will be by riding the shirt tails no more, they just want to climb futher up the industries back which their product certainly won't let them do - unfortunately their money might.
I would laugh soooo hard if microsoft got on board with nokia, it would certainly be a cause for concern for other O/S, but perhaps not symbian as it 100% perfect and free from any clitches or bugs. long live a bit of healthy competion and may the company with the most money and inflence win.
SWITCH-donkey boy-BLADE
[quote="Milky bar"]I would laugh soooo hard if microsoft got on board with nokia, it would certainly be a cause for concern for other O/S, but perhaps not symbian as it 100% perfect and free from any clitches or bugs. long live a bit of healthy competion and may the company with the most money and inflence win.
SWITCH-donkey boy-BLADE[/quote]
Symbian is far from 100% perfect!, and contary to your beleif it does have bugs!...anyone that says it doesn't is wrong, a 100% perfect OS doesn't exist.
Symbian is well ahead of the game as far as stability goes, but it's not perfect!
Hang on, I think I just got it 😃
The only reason for Nokia getting in bed with M$, I think, would be if Nokia was headed for a big fall. - Which I don't see happening anytime soon, they are still far ahead of the competition, still going strong. And no matter how much money Crappy$oft were willing to invest in this market, Nokia has no reason for selling out(as of yet). Add that to the large amount Nokia has invested in Symbian already.
I wonder what's going on with Samsung though, they seem to be going both ways. Planning to release both a Symbian powered device as well as PPC, there's even a Palm powered device in the pipeline from this manufacturer.. :roll:
And Motorola is a shareholder in Symbian too, right? What's up with them going with Linux?
Someone please enlighten me here, getting mighty confused.. :-?
I guess that,both Samsung and Motorola want to have more options,a smart business move.
And Jordan,you got it?What is it? 😊
[quote="TANKERx"]
Microsoft have so much to learn about making an OS designed for phones!
[/quote]
Like what?
MS Smartphone 2002 is just a tiny warm-up.
[quote="Guest1"]neither enterprise is particularly significant particularly given Samsungs public statements about Symbian.[/quote]
Samsung is not commited to Symbian. Show me one Samsung phone with Symbian on the market please... or stop telling not-truth.
[quote="Raven"]The only reason for Nokia getting in bed with M$, I think, would be if Nokia was headed for a big fall.[/quote]
"Kekkonen works in mysterious ways". If you would be Finnish you would understand what I mean. Everything is possible...
[quote="thejpzr"][quote="TANKERx"]
Microsoft have so much to learn about making an OS designed for phones!
[/quote]
Like what?
MS Smartphone 2002 is just a tiny warm-up.[/quote]
So you're saying that Microsoft deliberately made their smartphone to function like a lazy hairy-assed builder with as much initiative as a bottle of squash?
And the new firmware upgrade for the SPV hardly addresses any of the issues surrounding it, even you admit on your web site that the SMS counter doesn't work properly! And what, still no GPRS counter!?
Come on, the first mass-market symbian phones addressed these as foundational issues and yet Microsoft says "You don't need them" (either that, or they're saying "it's too hard"😉.
This, along with the fact that the new SPV, due out in a few weeks, is almost an exact replica of the first shows the contempt that Microsoft has for its customers. Oh, not forgetting Smartphone2003 which will instantly disenfranchise the Smartphone2002 users (you say it won't, but already there are incompatibility issues on PocketPC devices which means that once people start developing this .Net nonsense, the older users will either upgrade or suffer neglect).
The bugs that I have experienced in the SPV suggest to me that it is a half-baked platform which is good for playing music and videos, but useless for making a call. It is impossible for me to recommend a Microsoft based smartphone to anybody I consider a friend.
PS. I like the new look of your site. They say that immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and so you must really admire The Register since you want to flatter them so much! 😃
PPS. You said that .Net (unlike Java) is 'faster than light'? Ever heard of Einstein? 😉
[quote="TANKERx"]
So you're saying that Microsoft deliberately made their smartphone to function like a lazy hairy-assed builder with as much initiative as a bottle of squash?
[/quote]
Updates improved it and now many problems have been resolved thanks to these updates.
[quote="TANKERx"]
And the new firmware upgrade for the SPV hardly addresses any of the issues surrounding it, even you admit on your web site that the SMS counter doesn't work properly! And what, still no GPRS counter!?
[/quote]
I don't admit anything, it just information from other sources reported at the web site.
GPRS counter programs are available from third parties - some of them with fantastic features.
[quote="TANKERx"]
Come on, the first mass-market symbian phones addressed these as foundational issues and yet Microsoft says "You don't need them" (either that, or they're saying "it's too hard"😉.
[/quote]
Well, not everybody needs them, but some users needs to sync their Outlook wirelessly with their cell phone. MS Smarpthone can do it without any additional software. Symbian phones can't.
[quote="TANKERx"]
This, along with the fact that the new SPV, due out in a few weeks, is almost an exact replica of the first shows the contempt that Microsoft has for its customers.
[/quote]
SPV E100 is better: much better display and much better keyboards. It is not "exact replica".
[quote="TANKERx"]
Oh, not forgetting Smartphone2003 which will instantly disenfranchise the Smartphone2002 users
[/quote]
Microsoft employees were telling me that Smarthone 2003 will be binary compatible with 2002.
[quote="TANKERx"]
The bugs that I have experienced in the SPV suggest to me that it is a half-baked platform which is good for playing music and videos, but useless for making a call. It is impossible for me to recommend a Microsoft based smartphone to anybody I consider a friend.
[/quote]
Update it! Also get SPV E100 that is much much better.
[quote="TANKERx"]
PS. I like the new look of your site. They say that immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and so you must really admire The Register since you want to flatter them so much! 😃
[/quote]
What imitation? There is no imitation.
I don't admire The Register Admin Edit: remaining libelous comments removed
[quote="TANKERx"]
PPS. You said that .Net (unlike Java) is 'faster than light'? Ever heard of Einstein? 😉
[/quote]
Java is middle ages, outdated technology. .NET is like modern Star Trek hyperspace capable starship - faster than light thanks to modern technologies not available in Java.
I believe you both should read ys9.
I would have thought Tankerx read it 😛
[quote="Dazler"]I believe you both should read ys9.
I would have thought Tankerx read it 😛[/quote]
What is "ys9"? Please speak to me in one of 6 languages I understand.
Dazler, are you still bedazzled in a matter of the best smartphone operating system on this planet? No need to be: it is MS Smartphone and Pocket PC.
Hehe!
Sorry guys, I'll shut up after this..... I promise! 😉
I honestly think that jpzr is on a mission to make the world hate him. Which is a shame really because he winds up the people on Smartphone forums, he's derided on the Smartphone newsgroups and here he just spouts more and more lies.
Here, he proclaims the wonders of .Net while in the Smartphone communities, he brags about how he's developed a Java runtime environment.
I don't know. At the end of the day, it's just a phone and I'm beginning to think that I spend too much time arguing about it as it is.
I don't think it's neither of them 😊
YS9: Your Symbian issue 9, THE symbian newsletter with an interesting article about fan boys.
I played with the SPV but it did seem confusing, it couldn't beat the good 9210 design.
But then again after playing with the 7650 and p800 I think they are equally confusing.
Only good symbian is the communicator(for me 😛) although me running on the oldest firmware doesn't impress anyone because it crashes from time to time.
I haven't seen any good smartphone with following functions: good looks/easy interface/stable/fast
But I do say that Symbian is in the lead to get to such a smartphone.
Because my phone only crashes because of the third party stuff 😛.
I just hope they learn something about design, because the UI's just suck (although I believe Symbian has not much say in this(nokia 6600 with skin option will probably rock)).
So in the meanwhile I'm going to stick with my brick, enjoy the things it can and live with it's flaws.
As for Symbian and Microsoft, let the best OS win 😛
[quote="TANKERx"]
I don't know. At the end of the day, it's just a phone and I'm beginning to think that I spend too much time arguing about it as it is.[/quote]
right on! 😊
As it goes for religions: every man can believe whatever he wants.
You should not force anyone else to believe what you believe.
You'll see if your religion is/was the best after armageddon 😃
JPZR's fanboy attitude is well known here. So firstly YS9 is "Your Symbian, Issue 9" available here. The Fanboy article is here.
I've an SPV here. Can you answer me the following basic questions without resorting to "the new phone fixes this" or "upgrade your phone." If MS/Ornage sold this, they think it is fit for the purpose it is sold for.
1) Why can it take 5-10 seconds for the More Apps menu to appear and go through the programs?
2) Why can I not have two POP mailboxes?
3) Why no hotmail in the Message application?
4) Can you dial from contacts that have been synchronised formOutlook yet? How did MS miss this before shipping. it is FUNDAMENTAL in a mobile phone.
5) Why can I get only 20 characters per task in the TASKS applicaion
6) Why is it, overall, too darn slow? Have you really used this side by side with a Symbian OS phone? And you truly think it is better?
[quote="TANKERx"]
Here, he proclaims the wonders of .Net while in the Smartphone communities, he brags about how he's developed a Java runtime environment.[/quote]
Admin Edit: Do NOT post libellous comments on AAS
.NET still will be superior particularly because it is easier to develop software with it than with Java or anything else, and particularly because it has simply more features. Also: it has the same programming model for server, desktop and mobiles, while Java's models are different everywhere.
After bringing Java MIDP to MS cellphones, they will have .NET, native windows apps AND Java - combination that no Symbian phone will have.
[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]
JPZR's fanboy attitude is well known here. So firstly YS9 is "Your Symbian, Issue 9" available here. The Fanboy article is here.
[/quote]
Sorry pals, but your Fanboy article is inaccurate and totally childish and not-professional. In fact it looks like it was written by a childish fanboy who is a symbian fanatic, not fan.
Look at this quote from the article:
[quote="some childish symbian fanatic"]
Arguments from the pro-M$ camp that their devices are better because of the MP3 and video playback, seem to forget that people may wish to do something useful with a device, but their only argument is silly features and not usefulness. [/quote]
... which misses many things!!! One example: MS Smartphone can wirelesssly synchronize with Outlook without the need to buy addtional software!
[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]
1) Why can it take 5-10 seconds for the More Apps menu to appear and go through the programs?[/quote]
Update software in your SPV to latest version. Also: use (free or not) task manager program to kill programs running in the background - that'll make the phone faster.
[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]
2) Why can I not have two POP mailboxes?
[/quote]
Teething problems, it is resolved in next version of the OS. MS Smartphone 2002 is just a first version of the phone soft from MS, compare it to nokia communicators which are what, 5 years old? and you will see that it is just a beginning.
[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]
3) Why no hotmail in the Message application?
[/quote]
why no AOL ? in fact you can read hotmail in ms smarpthone through web interface.
[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]
4) Can you dial from contacts that have been synchronised formOutlook yet? How did MS miss this before shipping. it is FUNDAMENTAL in a mobile phone.
[/quote]
you can.
[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]
5) Why can I get only 20 characters per task in the TASKS applicaion
[/quote]
task application is just sample. there are FREE taks/notes programs for ms smartphone that resolve this problem.
[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]
6) Why is it, overall, too darn slow? Have you really used this side by side with a Symbian OS phone? And you truly think it is better?
[/quote]
because you forget to kill programs running in the background.
yes, it is better, it has home screen, wireless outlook synchronization, mp3 and video playback (with built in and with pocket tv programs), and coming soon the killer: .NET in the ROM. ah, the .NET killer is already downloadable for all pocket PCs, and next version of Pocket PC - now available - Pocket PC 2003 - already has .NET in ROM as well as a web browser superior to Opera.
Well least Symbian have so far proved to be an honest and reliable company who are prepared to work in partnership with the hardware and software developers.
They are not a company who has been found guilty of abusing its postion as a monopoly by setting out to damage other companies with unfair business practices.
[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]Can you answer me the following basic questions without resorting to "the new phone fixes this" or "upgrade your phone." If MS/Orange sold this, they think it is fit for the purpose it is sold for.
[/quote]
Looks like he couldn;t. Thanks for admitting that MS sold a phone before it was ready, and that they *rely* on third party software for the things they don't know how to do 😉
SyncML.
Microsoft hates standards it can't control.
jpzr, I'm sure you're a nice bloke deep down, but you do need to get out more.
'Nuff said.
Now i know why people in modaco forums have jpzr on top of their loathing list.
Even if i was payed by Microsoft i wouldn't make such an ass of my self for the company i work?I wonder why you were not invited to go on Mobius?
[quote="thejpzr"]
Look at this quote from the article:
[quote="some childish symbian fanatic"]
Arguments from the pro-M$ camp that their devices are better because of the MP3 and video playback, seem to forget that people may wish to do something useful with a device, but their only argument is silly features and not usefulness. [/quote]
... which misses many things!!! One example: MS Smartphone can wirelesssly synchronize with Outlook without the need to buy addtional software!
[/quote]
I wasn't quoting good or bad sides for either argument, that has nothing to do with the article. Might I suggest learning to read?
[quote="langdona"]
They are not a company who has been found guilty of abusing its postion
as a monopoly by setting out to damage other companies with unfair
business practices.[/quote]
Being accused by some tiny company with low engineering skills (Sendo)
means nothing. Being accused is not being sentenced. There is no court
ruling. You are telling lies, "langdona". Is it the symbian way?
[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"][quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]Can you answer me the following basic questions without resorting to "the new phone fixes
this" or "upgrade your phone." If MS/Orange sold this, they think it is
fit for the purpose it is sold for.
[/quote]
Looks like he couldn;t. Thanks for admitting that MS sold a phone before
it was ready, and that they *rely* on third party software for the
things they don't know how to do 😉[/quote]
Don't know? It is not a matter of knowing. It is a matter of choice. In
Symbian phones you need to get along what you get pre-installed, and in
MS phones you can get fantastic add-ons.
[quote="TANKERx"]SyncML.
Microsoft hates standards it can't control.
[/quote]
What about SyncML? YOU think it really is used in Symbian phones. Tell me more about it...! I don't believe.
[quote="SwitchBlade"]I wasn't quoting good or bad sides for either
argument, that has nothing to do with the article. Might I suggest
learning to read?[/quote]
Oh yes, it does. You "forgot" to mention one of the most important
things - wireless sync with outlook - the thing, which Symbian phones
don't have.
[quote="GhostDog"]I wonder why you were not invited to go on Mobius?[/quote]
Rise above that Mobius bullsh*t, pleaZe. I don't give a damn.
Peace out, Macedonian boy.
remove former post, I posted as Guest by mistake - I forgot that in your forum Guests are allowed too... (one of very few forums that allow it..)
[quote="langdona"]
They are not a company who has been found guilty of abusing its postion
as a monopoly by setting out to damage other companies with unfair
business practices.[/quote]
Being accused by some tiny company with low engineering skills (Sendo)
means nothing. Being accused is not being sentenced. There is no court
ruling. You are telling lies, "langdona". Is it the symbian way?
[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"][quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]Can you answer me the following basic questions without resorting to "the new phone fixes
this" or "upgrade your phone." If MS/Orange sold this, they think it is
fit for the purpose it is sold for.
[/quote]
Looks like he couldn;t. Thanks for admitting that MS sold a phone before
it was ready, and that they *rely* on third party software for the
things they don't know how to do 😉[/quote]
Don't know? It is not a matter of knowing. It is a matter of choice. In
Symbian phones you need to get along what you get pre-installed, and in
MS phones you can get fantastic add-ons.
[quote="TANKERx"]SyncML.
Microsoft hates standards it can't control.
[/quote]
What about SyncML? YOU think it really is used in Symbian phones. Tell me more about it...! I don't believe.
[quote="SwitchBlade"]I wasn't quoting good or bad sides for either
argument, that has nothing to do with the article. Might I suggest
learning to read?[/quote]
Oh yes, it does. You "forgot" to mention one of the most important
things - wireless sync with outlook - the thing, which Symbian phones
don't have.
[quote="GhostDog"]I wonder why you were not invited to go on Mobius?[/quote]
Rise above that Mobius bullsh*t, pleaZe. I don't give a damn.
Peace out, Macedonian boy.
Oh jpzr! You certainly do brighten my day! I'm sorry, but when I read your posts, I see a red faced nutter throwing his monitor on the floor and jumping on it! Heh!
Anyway, back to some of the points you've made (I thought I'd reply since I'm a bit bored at the moment).
First of all, I don't give two hoots about being able to sync wirelessly with Outlook. It's clearly giving you a stiffy, but for me, nah, sorry. Oh hang on...... no, sorry, I thought I'd had a bit of excitement there, but it was a fart.
You say that Symbian phones are stuck with the software that comes with them. I really don't know which part of your anus you're thinking with because when I visit Handango, I can hear a pin drop in the Microsoft Smartphone section yet in the Symbian section.... let's see; TV Remote control - GPS - Skinning tools - remote control via PC - remote control of a PC - remote control of another phone - remote locking in case of theft - image manipulation - panorama image creation - video recorder (it works too - tried that on the SPV? You get 1 frame a second if you're lucky and that's an AVI and not MPEG) - 3D Games - Cross-Provider Instant Messaging - Java Software - Encrypted Texting - Enhanced E-Mailing (and the basic messaging on the SPV is less than what comes with Symbian) - Great Hotmail Compatibility - FAX Software - Call Blocking based on caller - SMS Processing - Tamagotchi and that's not all of it!
Where is the SPV's equivalent? If porting software from the PocketPC to SPV is so easy, why is hardly anybody doing it?.
SyncML? It is used and it now works with Apple machines also (even better than with Windows. Interesting huh! Another standard (Bluetooth) that Microsoft can't control and therefore puts it in the "too-hard" tray.
Oh, and I don't think langdona was referring to Sendo when you tried so hard to change the subject. The American government did find Microsoft guilty of abusing its power and influence.
I suppose if Microsoft wanted to release a fully working SPV, they should have waited for Sendo to finish before running away with the booty. :roll:
[quote="TANKERx"]Oh jpzr! You certainly do brighten my day! [/quote]
See, man, I am good guy. MS ain't bad too.
[quote="TANKERx"]
I'm sorry, but when I read your posts, I see a red faced nutter throwing
his monitor on the floor and jumping on it! Heh![/quote]
You mean you look at the mirror then? You have big mirror in your place tanking man?
[quote="TANKERx"]
First of all, I don't give two hoots about being able to sync wirelessly
with Outlook. It's clearly giving you a stiffy, but for me, nah, sorry.
Oh hang on...... no, sorry, I thought I'd had a bit of excitement there,
but it was a fart.[/quote]
Your vulgar smalltalk is freaking me out man. Is, it the
symbian way nowadays, or what? Chill it pleaZe.
MS phones can wirelessly sync with Outlook, symbian phones can't, and
that's one heck of a killer application that symbian phones miss!
[quote="TANKERx"]
You say that Symbian phones are stuck with the software that comes with
them. I really don't know which part of your anus you're thinking with
because when I visit Handango, I can hear a pin drop in the Microsoft
Smartphone section yet in the Symbian section.... let's see
[/quote]
no, I didn't say THAT. I just said if some crappy GPRS counter is pre-
installed, then there is no motivation to make (by soft vendors) a
fantastic one.
As far as symbian section versus smartphone section: what the crap you
talking here, heh? Firstly you forget Pocket pC phones, secondly you
don't take into account that symbian phones, like communicators and 7650 entered the market much earlier and that's why there is a bit more soft for them than for smartphone. And don't forget pocket pc-s - these babies (I have one too) are direct competitors to your puny P800 and
commmunicators...
[quote="TANKERx"]
SyncML? It is used and it now works with Apple machines also (even
better than with Windows. Interesting huh! Another standard (Bluetooth)
that Microsoft can't control and therefore puts it in the "too-hard"
tray.
[/quote]
bluetooth comes to ms smartphone 2003 - next generation. Myself have
seen such ms smartphone with bluetooth. they're coming, worry not. The
point however is to be able to do things INSIDE of the smartphone so no
need for bluetooth then. anyway: bluetooth is crap, Wi-fi is king! and
the only phones that can NOW do Internet-ing both through cell networks
and through wi-fi-s are pocket pc phones (ms smartphone join them later
too). so who cares about Apple? it has minimal market share anyway -
most people use windows xp and outlook.
[quote="TANKERx"]
Oh, and I don't think langdona was referring to Sendo when you
tried so hard to change the subject. The American government did find
Microsoft guilty of abusing its power and influence.
[/quote]
are we talking here about bannnas or cell phones. wake up tanker, or tank more beer, but I am refering to the context (cell phones) not some a*holes on the sun... shortly speaking: to the topic please!
[quote="TANKERx"]
I suppose if Microsoft wanted to release a fully working SPV, they
should have waited for Sendo to finish before running away with the
booty. :roll:[/quote]
you STILL don't understand ? they released EASY TO UPGRADE cell phones - users update them throug USB cable (what? you don't have this invention in 7650/3650? what an outdated tech they are!) very easily. no USB in 7650/3650 to flash them you need to go to mum's place (service point, heh) and ask other to do the blow job, pardon flash job. with ms cell phones you upgrade the soft easily so companies can release hardware early and then everybody (who cares) can keep upgrading. also in ms phones you have incremental upgrade technology. in your outdated symbian phones you have to, pardon me my langue, to "flash" (don't take dump in the middle by a coincidence) the phone at foreign place.
waiting for sendo? sendo has engineering skills of primary school boys. nobody is waiting for sendo. wake up and tank more beer...