TWO Faced moderators??

Just my 2 cents on this. I think the process whereby one modifies the operating system of a protected system is considered 'Hacking'. On a technicallity, if the forum doesn't permit discussions on the subject matter 'hacking' then the thread can be subject to lock down. Justification all lies within the forum rules. I think if you work on a post that justifies why the aforementioned subject doesn't constitute as 'hacking' then you have a very good case here. However, I don't think that rant was effective in winning this argument although I personally think there are better ways you could have approached it.

In addition, just to clear things up about the 'example' you used to justify your statement in this thread. Making a backup copy of a medium which you own is permissible by law. How you handle it from there is subject to rules and regulations in your governing country/state/city. With that said I don't see how your example of that particular incident you mentioned undermines the forum rules.

I hope that bit of information helps you formulate a more proactive argument. 😃

You have not answered my question on how changing the CDA on a phone is ILLEGAL??

lets face it what are SONY E going to be more likely to prosecute over ,
1. Changing the software on a phone you have already bought

2. Ripping off one of their DVDs CDs etc

Give me a break about backing up your own medium everyone knows that the majority of people buy back up software to rip off dvds cds etc .

SONY may not like having their software update 'hacked' as you put it , but are they prosecuting anyone for doing it.

Like I said I had a BRANDED phone and the SONY ERICCSSON official service centre UNBRANDED it for me so they hardly seem bothered do they?

BTW I would understand hacking in terms of breaking the law as as a way of making something free that was previously charged for, the SONY Update service is free so what exactly are they losing. I also do not believe that the unbrander actually HACKS anything because nothing is being done to the SONY website at all just your own computer.If moron sorry i mean Raven had read the Yahoo site properly where this was discussed he would have noted that the many more intelligent people who were involved
stated THAT THIS IS NOT ILLEGAL!!! AND NOT TECHNICALLY HACKING!!

Is that Proactive enough for you!!!
🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

I already explained it in this tread;

Originally posted by Raven
Well, the CDA version is used to determine the "customizations" made to your particular unit (i.e operator branded). So, when you buy a phone through an operator you're bound to a certain contract, and by removing the branding made by the operator (change of CDA), you may break that contract and avoid the warranty.

Changing of CDA is obviously not condoned by Sony Ericsson either, otherwise the whole CDA version of the firmware wouldn't exist, and wouldn't be needed to make online updates.

I'm not a lawyer, so whether or not it is actually "illegal" to change the CDA I wouldn't know for sure, but, for now, it IS against forum rules to discuss the procedure here.

Some of these things are really hard to determine whether or not they are legal, and if we should allow discussing it in the forums. So, many things will be up to the individual moderator to decide, or as a united decision among all the mods/admins.

I am open to any input regarding this issue of course, and would appreciate input from my fellow mods/admins as well. 😊

@Spacedude -

You have your work cut out for you m8. I think you need to strengthen your arguments with better examples. It still sounds like your ranting more then arguing. I think the easier way to get out of this is to get a written statement from both SE and your contract carrier that explains why they feel your actions are acceptable. If they abide by what you're doing and can put it in writting then I think your argument can be sealed. You could probably present that letter to the mods and they can review it. Now there's an example of a proactive move. You could end up helping several other members on this thread and other forums if you go in that direction. Again, just my 2 cents. My old man has been a district circuit judge for over 20 years so I'm sure that's the advice he'd recommend. 😉

By the way I think you totally missed my point about copy devices. Rules and regulations set guidelines for 'intent'. Hence the reason why recordable devices are permissible to be sold to the consumer. I bought a CD writter in '94 and most people around me assumed I had an illegal device because it would permitt me to make copies of a CD. I had the same case in 1999 when I purchased my first SCSII DVD writer. Again, they assumed the worst. However, the law allowed me to purchase these industry writers with no questions asked. People were simply not informed or knowledgable about how the law works. So it's very important to realize that the law works with boundaries. So if you don't understand those boundries, don't assume your argument is correct.

Like i am really going to bother getting Sony Ericsson to put it in writing, whether or not you can change your CDA or not!!

The Joke is I am on T mobile and I was happily(ish) using an O2 Branded phone. No one from O2 is coming to my door asking why are they, the very fact that I can use a different companies Sim card in another ones phone blows this whole argument out of the water.
YOU are ALSO BOTH failing to note one very important point as well

I HAD MY PHONE UNBRANDED AT AN OFFICIAL SONY ERICSSON SERVICE CENTRE!!!!!!!!!!!!

By doing this as OFFICIAL representatives of SONY ERICSSON they are condoning the changing of CDA's!!

There is too much maybe and what if about ravens argument with regards to 'you may break a contract' why doesnt he find out for sure then if it is illegal then stop the threads

As for the whole copy devices thread, YES I know its legal to buy a CD writer and back up your own stuff, BUT the fact remains
that the majority backups are done illegally so maybe there is also a moral issue here as well.(Some 40% of all software in Europe is ripped off!!) let alone all the music Cds and DVDs.
I think the music industry and movie industry and software companies are gonna be a lot hotter on this than the Telephone companies whose YOU are still going to be using no matter what you do to THEIR??? phones??? or YOUR PHONES???!!!whose phone is it???

A few questions for you both

1. Has anyone been prosecuted for changing their CDA?
2.Has SONY issued any statements saying its illegal to do so?
3.Have any Phone companies stated thats its illegal to take their crap off our phones??
4. WHAT HAPPENED TO CONSUMER POWER???? WHEN DID WE BECOME A BUNCH OF f&^%KIN SHEEP?? IF I PAY TMOBILE or ORANGE or O2 etc my hard earned cash every month for their service, why do I have to look at their shitty adverts on my phone every time I turn the F&^kin thing on??

5.WHY SHOULD THEY DICTATE WHEN I CAN HAVE THE LATEST SOFTWARE FOR MY PHONE JUST BECAUSE THEY CANNOT BE ARSED TO UPDATE IT.

6.WHO IS BEING HURT OR LOSING MONEY BY DOING THIS??

This whole branding CRAP needs closing down its getting everywhere.I pay my TV licence every year yet if i watch a BB3 programme I have to look at their F&^%kin BBC3 logo in the corner of my TV WHY???? I paid them the Licence !!!
Its distracting and annoying, why do we have to put up with this irritating crap.I subscribe to Digital TV , I pay my money every month practically EVERY F&*^*kin channel has this LOGO SHITE sometimes 2 LOGOS!!!!! WHY ?? I have paid already, its all CRAP Advertising, there should be an option to turn it off!!

Its the same with phones, I pay TMOBILE thats it !! If I want their crap screens i can , BUT I SHOULD HAVE A CHOICE thats all im saying

ANYHOW ITS NO BIG SHIT TO ME ,

MY PHONE IS NOW UNBRANDED AND RUNNING THE LATEST SOFTWARE!!

SO MY ADVICE TO ALL OF YOU DONT BOTHER TRYING THE CDA CHANGE 'HACK' or SOFTWARE INNOVATION depending on your point of view.

JUST TAKE YOUR PHONE DOWN TO YOUR NEAREST SONY ERICCSSON CENTRE AND THEY WILL DO IT FOR YOU FOR FREE!!!!

spacedude,the forum is not a democracy.Its up to the moderators and admins to decide whether or not some bit of information will be published.On the subject of CDA changing we decided not to publish anything.

If you want to be heard you can start by posting facts and not calling the member of the forum two faced or idiots or morons or whatever.This way,you are not having much progress and probably,in the future i won't even bother to read your posts.

Spacedude,

You are a very angry young man aren't you? 😛 Seriously though, I do understand your frustration, and whether or not I agree personally with many of your points, is not really relevant. I still have to "do my job" as a moderator. And on that note, if you have any problems with the way I moderate the forum, you can take it up with Rafe.

Originally posted by spacedude
YOU are ALSO BOTH failing to note one very important point as well

I HAD MY PHONE UNBRANDED AT AN OFFICIAL SONY ERICSSON SERVICE CENTRE!!!!!!!!!!!!

By doing this as OFFICIAL representatives of SONY ERICSSON they are condoning the changing of CDA's!!

Not really. There's a big difference between changing your firmware at an official SE service centre, and with some "hack" found on the Internet.

Besides, the mere fact that SE have made sure that you can no longer use this "hack" with the online update service, should give you a big clue that SE does NOT condone it.

I thought democracy was the Keystone of every Civilised society!!

By not discussing CDA changing or any other pertinent issue this forum becomes a censored toothless, asskissing nonentity.

Hey guys lets discuss what my favourite screensaver is, or ooh do you think they will bring out the P900 in another colour
HOW ABOUT YELLOW!!!

Whatever dudes!!

A. what makes you think I'm young??

B. Whats wrong with being Angry?

Sure Sony changed the software to stop the debranding software but they will do it for you at a SONY Service Centre!!

Is it me or is there something inherently ILLOGICAL about that
Hey lets stop people from unbranding their phones in way that costs us or our staff nothing.
But Hey we will UNBRAND your phones FOR YOU at OUR SERVICE CENTRES!!

DOOHH!!!

C.Maybe you should stop being so passive

Spacedude,

This is not a public forum. It is owned by Rafe.

If you don't like the rules of the forum, you are free to go elsewhere.

Raven is in the right here, please respect his decision.

Raven is not in the RIGHT and neither are you Rafe,

You just make weak decisions based on fear, ignorance and call them RIGHT

Whats the point of a forum if you cannot discuss 'HOT' topics?

This has been the only interesting discussion here for sometime.

I am amused by the fact that you guys never answer questions.

Ho Hum, back to the boring stuff then

So tell me whats your favourite button on your P900???
personally I like the camera button with the cute little picture
🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

PS dont forget to close the Topic!!!!
🙄

@Spacedude,

😃 It's not looking good dude. I was trying to help you out with your argument because it sounded like a raving rant with no substantial evidence. I'm not a mod just a curious observer so no beef from me. You're happy with your phone now and that's good. But just don't make yourself look foolish when you start a thread with an agument supported by week and baseless examples. You would have been thrown out in any court house if that's how you'd expect to carry your point across. THis is Rafe's courthouse so PM him about how you feel your opinions have been treated. Focus my man. Focus.

Err excuse me Bigfeat but I did not ask for and really do not need your patronising so called 'Support'.

I dont need to focus after all this is just a forum about a Phone!! not world peace or something truly important.

If my arguments are baseless how come no one can give a decent thought out response to the many points i have raised.

such as 'Is it Illegal to change a CDA?'' especially one made for a network company i.e. O2, Tmobile,Orange etc?

If this is illegal why would SONY ERICSSON themselves change a BRANDED phone to UNBRANDED??

I have raised IMHO many valid points especially the way WE the CONSUMER are crapped on by these companies why cannot these topics be discussed?

This is not a court house its a PHONE FORUM!! and so far not one SHRED of evidence has been put forward to Confirm that changing your CDA is ILLEGAL.

Sure its a bit of a RANT so what??, better than being a meek little mouse who just creeps along doing what he is told accepting everything.

I just find it disappointing that a forum will not even discuss anything more challenging than the sad fanboy 'just how much do you love your phone crap'

Sure I can be banned or I will not bother to post and then you can go back to your SAFE little Topics , good luck to you

But I think that some people here 'Raven?' agrees with some of what i have said

Anyway to my favourite quote

'wining an argument on the internet is like winning the special olympics, you may get a medal but your still a retard!!'

Not that I LOST!!!!!!😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃

Do you plan on going to your contract carroer if the phone is broken at anytime in the future? If they refuse to replace it because they noticed you have manipulated the software that they paid to put on the phone, will you then complain? If you tell them you went to an SE authorized center and had them wipe out the phone's original firmware do you think they should care? Read your contract and you'll understand that the carrier does not care who performed the service for you if you decided to go outside their policy by not going through them first. You having anything done by an authorized SE center isn't any different from me tweaking your phone in my basement. Your contract is not with SE, it's with your carrier. Hence, if they really wanted to they could technically void your warranty (per contract) and leave you assed out. Remember it's not SE's obligation to make sure you're abiding to a contract you have with another company. They'll do the work for you because they don't have to care what you decide to do with someone else's contract.

In addition once you have that SE firmware and you feel like tinkering with it. If you were to ask SE to replace the phone and they noticed you tampered with their software (ie modified CDA), they too could tell you to take a hike. Modifying their software DOES void the manufacturer's warranty. So again, if you were to focus on SE repairing/replacing the phone they can refuse service per warranty agreement.

In either case you would not be able to take either your contract carrier or phone manufacturer to court for refusal of service. Because you my friend may have very well voided your warranty with both. Just keep that in mind IF either of them feels like giving you a hard time if/when you want them to fix/replace it. With that said, I don't see why any of those companies would condone your actions if it means they have to do extra work on the phone because you screwed with it using tactics that was outside the warranty policy. They do pay contractors to fix those phones you know. So your actions will cause them to spend money nonetheless.

Thus, I think I have answered that burning question you thought we were avoiding. 😃

BigFeat you truly are A pompass dipshit aren't you and you havent followed the thread very well. READ PROPERLY

You are missing the main point that I AM ON T MOBILE but was using an O2 branded phone which I bought nice and cheap!!!
a private sale
O2 ARE NOT MY CARRIER OK!!I hAVEN'T GOT A warranty with them!! YOU UNDERSTAND NOW??

I HAVE NO CONTRACT WITH O2 you idiot I am with T MOBILE who at the time I bought my phone did not even officially SUPPORT
the P900. T Mobile were very happy to send all the relevant software to my phone GSM email etc and I even told them it was an O2 Phone !!AND they DID NOT GIVE A SHIT!!

As far as they were concerned I had simply bought my P900 OFFLINE.Therefore In their EYES I am still using THEIR SERVICE with my OFFLINE phone.

My phone is now totally debranded and has been done so by Professionals WHO WERE MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO IT.

SE provide online updates to their phones ESPECIALLY those bought Offline anyway , now as far they are concerned my phone is an OFFLINE PHONE!!! So they will continue to support it .
THe GUY at the Service Centre told me to bring it back If I had any problems and they would sort it out ALL FOR FREE so obviously they will SUPPORT MY PHONE IF I NEED THEM TO

Re your dumbshit answer about SE saying I Tinkered with their CDA , THEY PROVIDE AN UPDATE SERVICE WHICH ALLOWS ANYONE TO TINKER WITH THEIR PHONE AND UPDATE IT SO THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY PREPARED TO PUT RIGHT PHONES THAT GO WRONG DURING THIS PROCESS.

i aCTUALLY f*&^%ED UP MY PHONE BY MESSING UP THE SO CALLED HACK PROCESS! THE SERVICE CENTRE HAPPILY WIPED THE PHONE CLEAN AND TURNED IT INTO AN UNBRANDED PHONE

I DO NOT EVER NEED TO HACK/SOFTWARE UPDATE MY OWN PHONE AGAIN SONY ERICSSON WILL DO IT FOR ME !!

SURE I TOOK A RISK BUT THATS WHAT LIFE IS ALL ABOUT HOWEVER IT PAID OFF BIG TIME.

I BET YOU DID EVERYTHING YOU WERE EVER TOLD TO DO LIKE A GOOD LITTLE BOY RIGHT? , YES SIR NO SIR ANYTHING YOU SAY SIR.

PS you have not answered any questions at all

1. IS IT ILLEGAL TO CHANGE A CDA!! if so what LAW exactly is BEING BROKEN??

2.You havent answered why you let these people crap all over you and dictate what you can or cannot do with your own phone
maybe you enjoy it

3. Why are you so Pompass??

Its funny at the start of this topic the problem I found was related to one that the guys at the LINUX Xboxs project have. That is Microsoft dont agree that people should be allowed to modify Xbox's. However the fact remains that once purchased (much liek a home computer) you decide the fate of the unit with the only risk of voiding warranty.

That is once purchased surely you are the owner of the phone.(obvously in a contract this is a shady area for 12 months as the phone is technically on loan) but once the contract has ended then there is no reason I dont think why any person should not be allowed to do whatever they want with that phone.

The fact that Spacedude got his phoned rebranded by SONY I think shows that its not the biggest crime in the world even if discouraged by the network.

The Issue about ripping DVD is most interesting as everyone knows here in the UK it is illegal to make recording from the radio yet recordable tape decks were always packaged with radios.

Yes BigFeat is right they sell the Writers because they also come with a warning about copyright theft. I do think if DVD ripping techniques have been discussed on this forum then it extremely irresposible of the moderators to let it happen because the implications of copyright theft are left wide open.

I would liken it to giving hints on a Amateur camcorder forum about best use of sound and lighting while filming in the movie theatre. Afterall doesnt mean they are going to commit a crime!

However Bigfeat cant really talk as his site also openly promotes copyright theft. I mean I dont know which country The Last Samuri has been released on DVD yet but he seems to have screen shots on his phone? Or is it maybe that becuase you own the original pirated DVD therefore you are permitted to make copies of it?

I think all these issues are shady areas but ultimately this is a forum. I dont agree in releasing information about directly breaking laws, or allowing discussions resulting in cartels of phone software thieves or whatever to start but I do think the mods are sometime too cautious - afterall if the actions and discussions of Spacedude are completely legel then this is the place it should be talked about and I think its up tot he mods to be clued up on all aspects of the law which governs the subject.

FINALLY A VOICE OF REASON APPEARS !!

1 LAST QUESTION

BIGFEAT are you a 2 FACED thieving copyright breaker with an ILLEGAL LAST SAMURAI MOVIE openly on display on your phone??? OR NOT??

It would be funny if you were, then maybe you could be sentenced by your OWN DAD FOR COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!!!

NOW THAT WOULD BE FUNNY 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃

spacedude,how come that someone who even remotely shares your opinion is a voice of reason?At least pasa expressed his opinion in a polite way,without calling anyone,pompass dipshit,dumbshit or whatever.In the future,respect the rules of this forum and make a better choice of your words.

BTW: Does BigFeat post illegal material on AAS?All I saw was a screenshot from a movie,it could've been from a trailer for all I care.

You know what would be funny,if you actually started backing up your posts with facts and arguments not just trash-talk.What's with the Caps?Is anyone blind here 😕

pasa,we also think its a shady area,but sometimes its better to stay on the safe side.If it was OK,why did SE take actions to prevent the hack from working anymore.

Ghostdog I dont deny the illegallity of such stuff - maybe its my misguided view of the justice system on a whole which gives me a vigalante attitude to large companies protecting there rights!

I can also understand standing on the safe side until you can be sure of the facts but hopefully this will push for the facts.

As with Bigfeat the screen shot and caption show that its the whole movie and he promotes his URL on this forum...again this may not be direct sharing of warez or copyright material but if the safe side is to be taken then.....

At the very least please keep post reasonably polite, there's no need to call people names to get your point across.

I realise that many forum users would like to be able to discuss firmware modification etc etc. but these are legally gray areas. Rather than have a complex you can't post this / you can post this set of forum rules it was decided very early on it the sites life to keep things as simple as possible. Regardless of what I may personally think about some of the issues that come up it is basically a legal question. I get the occasional e-mail or letter from a company or its legal representatives. The site has to be whiter than white to avoid problems.

It also allows for far better relations with software and hardware companies, which are vital in bringing you the site.

You may not agree with the policy and you don't have to but when using the forum you have to respect it and the moderators. If you feel you have been unfairly treated you can e-mail me personally with your side of the argument and at the very least I will explain to you why a decision has been made and if appropriate I will talk to the moderator concerned.

pasa,i don't have time to check BigFeats website but if you say its not OK i'm going to ask Bigfeat to remove his url from his signature.BTW:I usually check signature url's but i never noticed it was there. 😮

Bit unsure as to whether i should even reply but i just cant believe how rude spacedude is.
i can see your argument space dude but to say dvd blah blah to try and justify phone tampering is kinda pointless. it has absolutely no relevence to any phone based discussion unless your talking about watching a dvd on your phone (which you're not).
You do come across as very angry.
And why bother getting angry at a moderator who doesnt make the rules just follows them?
I hope you take MY comments a bit more easier than the other replies youve had as i wouldnt like to see an abusive response.
It would only enforce a rather negative first impression ive already got from your earlier unfriendly, rude postings.
everyones entitled to their own opinions and thoughts but it doesnt cost to have manners!

Ghostdog, I have no idea to be honest whether what Bigfeat has featured on his site can be considered against the policy of the forum, and I cartainly wouldnt want it removed on my behalf - afterall it doesnt personally offend me I was merely making a point.

I think it would have to be one of your (moderators) decisions to be fair on him and other users who may benefit from his site. I think it does however point out the difficulty of your jobs to uphold these policies and praise due...and it may also highlight just how grey these grey areas are...

The point is stimpy when i mentioned DVD ripping as an example as that can obviously lead to Illegal activities, ie copying copyrighted software material etc. My point is that this is allowed on this forum but talking about changing CDA's which No One has yet determined is Illegal is Not!

I never said I wasnt angry, This does make me angry/frustrated at the way we allow corporations to control us.

Why should a mobile phone carrier make me watch their adverts and not let me update my phone to the latest software even though I pay them plenty of money each month?.

Why should we not have a choice?

Why should they stop me from getting the best out of what I have bought just because they want to show me adverts?

What annoys me is the people who just accept this situation

I think rafe said it all in his comment about Software and Hardware companies and relations with them.Far be it from us the consumer (and lets face it we are probably early adopters of P900's etc so we are Pioneer Consumers), to have any say in the products for which we pay vast amounts of our hard earned cash .

Rafe why do not you as owner of this site ask one of your Industry contacts if this is Illegal once and for all. If they say it is Illegal what law is exactly being broken?

Anyway like I said before SE unbranded my phone for me so good luck to you all, i hope you enjoy watching the adverts on your branded phones and living with buggy out of date software for which new and improved versions are available for free to those without branded phones.

hey i managed to do a whole post without any CAPS oops!! 😃 😃

I think Spacedude does show that he has a point now that he fixed the problem with his caps lock! haha

I agree that its annoying people accept the situations as we make up the prime users of this new to market products. And because these new protocols are being implemented then if WE as highend users have a problem then now is the time to talk about it and get something done instead of pretending it doesnt exist.

I dont dissagree with the forum policies and they are there to protect everyone and help provide the best service - but Spacedude is right - we are the paying customer how about software developers listen to us, maybe then we could spend less time bitching about the problems and features we havent got....

maybe if there were a forum which was fully open to discuss these new methods and not be tainted by the law we could get more sense of some of these "grey" areas and start to actually do something about them...

Bigfeat hasn't done anything wrong. He is not actually sharing any copyrighted material. Ripping a DVD for personal use is NOT against the law, and like Stimpydon mentioned it has NO relevance to the "firmware hacking" issue whatsoever.

And, Spacedude, thank you for this comment:

Originally posted by spacedude
i aCTUALLY f*&^%ED UP MY PHONE BY MESSING UP THE SO CALLED HACK PROCESS!

It just proves that I made the right decision by removing the link to the "hack". It also makes most of your arguments crumble to pieces.