Psion sells stake in Symbian to Nokia!

I agree that this should be terminated - especially since you confuse analytical discussion with name calling, an activity that you seem happy to indulge in.............I have been careful not to make personal comments - although you have - so please refrain from a frank discussion turning into a slanging match.

You commenced on 02-11-2004 01:45 PM with the following reference to myself:

In particular martinharnevie has been posting comments that argue with other views but are all based upon supposition

I replied with a rather friendly "In any case, what we all share is a certain interest in a good future for Symbian OS and that this OS will continue to be the superior OS for smart mobile phones." As everyone can see, this had no ad personam ingredients at all, but rather a friendly take.

In consecutive discussions you have continually dismissed my statements as "negative suppositions" while you - of course - have ascribed yourself a monopoly on facts, even though, on request, I have quoted sources for "my facts" but you have not quoted any sources for "your facts".

Thus, you have been the instigator of flaming and slanging. You are jumping in here under a pseodonym with no other posting history and basically saying that "no one is allowed to express any worry about Symbian unless they are close to the situation".

cheers
Martin

I have been following this discussion now. I must say I am very confused about this brazilian. Sometimes he seems to claim to come from some inner source and appear to produce __facts__. On the other hand, his posting style leaves much to be desired. And how he can accuse Martin of slanging when it was him who did it all the time appears just too unprofessional for coming from someone anywhere near Symbian. He puts some undeniable facts in place...and then jumps to conclusions without any sort of logical chain or analytical intent.

Is he just a troll? Or is he on Symbian's payroll? On the other hand he cannot, because he does not seem to make any sense.

On the other hand I know Martin from plenty of other forums. He is actually the CEO of a multinational software house (sorry Martin...) and has shown in multiple very informative discussions that he possesses a brilliant understanding of the industry. In fact, loads of stuff that Martin stated in forums five years ago are facts today!!!

He also runs a small Symbian application development shop and often contributes to the OPL community.

That he spends a lot of his time in this discussion to express worries about something which is very dear to him (Symbian) can only be positive. So I just can't understand brazilians attacks.

regards
D.K.

I know who both Brazilian and Martin are. The thing is they both have different perspectives. Inevitably a lot of the debate over this issue is going to be influenced by an individuals interpretation and view point. We should bare in mind these are all views. Brazillian is completely correct in his points, similarly Martin's intepretation is also perfectly valid (I don;t actually agree with it, but that's another point entirely!).

My personal take on this, having chatted with a few people.

It's actually more a case of Psion not wanting to hold onto to the shares than Nokia wanting to buy then. From what I can tell Nokia were actually some what reluctant to take on the sahre precisely because of some of the inevitable reaction.

The other shareholders in Symbian were entitled to take up a share of Psion shares. I think this would have been dealt with before any announcement [think about the Motorola announcement - Psion and Nokia hd the agreement to split the shares before it was publically announced] (I may be wrong here, and I suspect the right to purchase applies for a while yet). The fact that they have not is as clear as indication as I think we're going to get that the other shareholders are relatively unconcerned.

The way the Symbian governance rules have been written (and I relaise these aren't public, but this is my understanding of them) go a long way to ensuring the continued independence of Symbian despite Nokia being a majority shareholder. This is mainly to do with decisions being consensus based, rotating positions among shareholders etc etc.

Nokia have publically committed to maintaining an indpendent Symbian. I suspect of anything Nokia is go to go to more trouble than before to demonstarte it does not have undue influence over Symbian. I'd expect to see considerable investment in all areas.

UIQ is not going anywhere (nor do I think Nokia will convert it to Series UIQ). I think that in the next year or so UIQ is going to come very much out of the shadows and we're going to see a lot of UIQ stuff. While I think Series 60 will 'win' in Europe my personal prediction would be UIQ will win in Asia.

While I do believe its perfectly fair to worry about the influence Nokia will have over Symbian (and the resultant reaction of other shareholders) I genuinely think it's not going to be an issue. Aside from the comments above I think we might also consider the alternatives...

Firstly a lot of companies (Siemens, Sendo, Sony Ericsson, Moto etc.) have invested a lot of money in Symbian OS programs. That sunk cost alone is a barrier to exit. Similarly the switching costs involved in getting into a new OS at this stage are prohobitive in finanical and time terms.

Secondly the alternatives. Microsoft is the obvious one. The minor shareholders have considerable influence still in Symbian's running. None in Microsoft's strategy. Symbian's philosophy is fundamentally different to MS (Symbian uses Open Standards and encourages manufactuers customisation at low levels). Palm is an alterntive in some ways but I really don't think OS5 cuts the mustard as a smartphone OS. OS6 is too resource hungry. Linux isn't mature enough and if you do choose to go for it - it's going to require massive investment.

Ironically despite naysayers claims one of Symbian's strongest cards in software standardisation. At the moment we're in a situation where developers have to target each phone differently. Nokia's Series XX strategy has already been remarkably successful. Its going to get to the point where to cover the majority of smartphone developers are going to be able to write for just 2 platforms - UIQ and Series 60 (perhaps with Series 90 thrown in too).. and these share a common code base. AS most Symbian developer's will tell you providing you write your code with portability in mind from the beginning porting from Series 60 to UIQ and vice versa is very easy. Put it this way can you think of any other mobile platform which will have 20 million + device base by the end of this year? Can;t you hear the developers licking their lips already!

[hmm I got off the point a bit there...]

In anycase please keep thing as friendly as possible afterall we are all Symbian 'fans' to one degree or another.

</gets off Symbian evangelist soap box>

Thanks both D.K. and Rafe,

I was really worried about where this discussion was going. It is very unlike me to go into personal attacks and I really hate that.

I am generally a long time mobile technology industry observer with a specific interest in Symbian for exactly the same reasons as Rafe points out.

I normally agree with Rafe in a lot of things and despite we might argue certain points there is generally a great mind share and genuine interest in the furtherance of Symbian and the smartphones based on this OS. And I think this mind share is the baseline from which we all should contribute in this forum and not question each others bona fide just because there are occasions when we do not agree on certain matters.

And, those who know me will also understand that I really want to be proven wrong in the worries that I have expressed earlier in this thread.

Yes, and as D.K. pointed out, I do have a particular passion for OPL...power to the peOPLe !!!

cheers
Martin

And BTW Rafe,

Ironically despite naysayers claims one of Symbian's strongest cards in software standardisation. At the moment we're in a situation where developers have to target each phone differently. Nokia's Series XX strategy has already been remarkably successful. Its going to get to the point where to cover the majority of smartphone developers are going to be able to write for just 2 platforms - UIQ and Series 60 (perhaps with Series 90 thrown in too).. and these share a common code base. AS most Symbian developer's will tell you providing you write your code with portability in mind from the beginning porting from Series 60 to UIQ and vice versa is very easy. Put it this way can you think of any other mobile platform which will have 20 million + device base by the end of this year? Can;t you hear the developers licking their lips already!

However, while Series 60 has indeed been successful, Series 80 wasn't really, though I am forever thankful for the existence of Series 80, because without it, OPL might not have survived. I strongly believe in Series 90 as well, because in Series 90 you see the "spirit" of Eikon.

cheers
Martin

Guys,

I am sure it is a genuine case of misinterpretation. I have at no time made any attacks - I did warn in general of the concern I have that people read more into the facts than there is.

As Rafe knows, I have particular interests here (and have been involved in the recent moves in OPL in particular) and everything I have said has been factual. I don't really have to post sources but Rafe can independently verify that I am very aware of the situation.

Symbian is remaining independent!

No Trolls here.

'Nuff said