Just returned my N70 to Orange.......

Dr, Who? wrote:........because it is poo.

I have used an SPV C500 for the last 18 months (Windows powered smartphone) but since the latest upgrade to that series is only iterative (no 3G for instance) I thought I would try the N70. What a mistake!

Specific problems I have had are:

1) My GOD it is sssssllllllllooooooowwwwwwwwwwww. The worst offender was the web browser. Visited a page I go to a lot on my C500, which takes ages to load over GPRS but displays instantly, using the N70 which downloaded the data instantly but then took about 2 minutes actually showing the page. However, it was generally very slow to transition between apps. Rubbish.

2) CallerID didn't work properly. My contacts were synced from Outlook but most numbers wouldn't ID - I would just get the number flashing up. Except the missed call list shown from the Orange Home Page COULD identify the call, saying Mr X - missed call at, but then if I went actually in to the missed call app then it was just the number NOT the name. Can only be a software error. I checked ones that did work against ones that didn't and there was no difference in the number format, name format, type of call, caller group, etc, etc its just some would ID and others wouldn't. Rubbish.

3) In Network connection you can only select Dual or GSM NOT UMTS only, which HAS to be a revenue thing. I have a 3G only data package so by forcing me to use Dual when my 3G signal dips rather than me not having connectivity it will automatically pickup using GPRS, which is billed at something like �4/Mb out of contract. You don't have to have this happen very often to clock up a huge bill.

4) You can't change the Home Page from the Orange portal. Or at least I couldn't figure out how to. I tried manually redefining the home page, selecting 'use current page' option, deleting oragne world and various methods. And still as soon as I open Home from the Home key, Web by pressing and holding 0 or by going into menu-Web it would open the Orange portal. Again a revenue stream thing - it just so happens to have about 200k of data on that home page, it is even 40kb with image loading turned off.

5) You can't remap the Home key. I can get to the internet by pressing and holding 0 for 1 second, why do I need another key? I would rather have instant access to my contact for instance rather than having to press down-right-click.

6) You can't search your contacts using T9. Everywhere else on the phone you can change the dictionary but not here. In fact mine defaulted to T9 for INPUTTING contacts which I really don't want, but at least you can change that.

It is a shame because there are things I really DID like - the connectivity to a PC is SO much easier than using Activesync. For instance people can spend days just getting syncing via BT working on activesync (and it can still be intermittent) and with the Nokia PCSuite it took just a few seconds. The sync function itself is painfully slow though and unacceptable since this has been a problem for at least 4 years. Setting up a modem is also a hassle under Activesync, but dead easy with the Nokia. The camera is also useable on the Nokia, unlike the Windows equivalents, which is nice. But other than that it was a completely underwhelming experience.

I have no idea what the N70 is like with Nokia firmware, or other operators, but it is complete shash on Orange. If you think this phone is good do yourself a favour and get a Windows Smartphone based phone - it is streets ahead.

Dr, Who? wrote: If you think this phone is good do yourself a favour and get a Windows Smartphone based phone - it is streets ahead.

🙄 you are very funny, I guess that you work for Microsoft or one of his companies for writing such nonsense !!!!

Unless you don't know how to use a phone with a superb os, which happens quite often with users of windows products .....

So get back your N70, learn how to use it, and buy yourself a Mac too !!!

Happy new year

Dr Who's points are very valid.

I would love to have an option to set 3G only aswel, because when I am at home in my study I can get reasonable 3g coverage but for some reason the phone still decides to sometimes bind to a 2G transmitter, VERY annoying if part-way through web browsing, or in Dr Who's case having to pay for GPRS.

The phone IS slow, even with no other apps open is takes a second or two to load the contacts window, on most other phones it's instant, the gallery app is also slow to open. (this might be a firmware thing, though I don't have the Orange firmware)

I find the lack of predictive text annoying in the contacts window aswel, reason being I usually end up adding the names of my most used contacts to the T9 dictionary for texting, so it would be nice to be able to have it there for the contacts list.

As for the caller display option, I had this problem right back in the days of the 7650, it was because if you have the same number stored for more than one contact it doesn't know which to go for and just displays the number, so for example I have seperate contacts for my Mum and Dad as they have different work numbers but the SAME home number, so if someone calls from the house phone it just comes up as the number. Could this be your problem?

A few of the problems, home screen, nav buttons are Orange's fault, and yes a firmware upgrade would solve them.

I have never had a Microsoft phone, but I have played with a few and they are not as bad as people like to make out, and I can certainly say I am not as impressed with the N70 as I hoped to be.

"most of your probslems with the phone are due to the orange firmware."

Quite possibly.

"find a shop that will give you generic firmware & its amazing."

Don't really want to have to reflash my brand new phone and invalidate the warranty - should work out of the box.

"your comment on 3g or gprs, so your saying that if the 3g in the place where you are isnt good you would prefure to have no signal at all??"

I would prefer to have that option, yes.

"no calls no messages?phone to be pretty much useless?"

If I have it in dual mode and go out of GSM range then it is also pretty much useless, non? I live in London where the 3G coverage is pretty good, but I use data services a LOT and I do NOT want to pay �1 in data costs whenever my 3G connection temporarily drops out. This could amount to quite a considerable extra cost to me a month.

"there is another thread/news article saying how crappy windows is comapred to symbian, about a guy having to press the reset button in an o2 xda II 3 times before giving up & forgeting about what he was trying tyo do."

It is not unheard of to reset a Windows phone it is true. The XDA is the PPC operating system though, not Smartphone OS so is not actually a valid comparison. The Smartphone OS is not perfect, hence I was willing to change. If you have to reset it 3 times then you need a replacement handset!

"i got nothing to say on caller ID maybe its an orange firmware problem because i dont have it on my n70(2.0536.0.2)."

No idea what was causing it and may well be localised to my handset, but it is essential to me and given all the other faults I couldn't be bothered trying to figure it out any more/

"how can you say its slow??"

Because it is. Painfully so.

"you probably had many apps runnign in the background,"

Nope, only 'telephone' and the internet app.

"or the phone was trying to render the page that you was loading."

Precisely. This is almost instantaneous on my old C500. A few seconds at most. I could have made a cup of tea waiting for the N70 to display the same page.

"t9 support is in most apps if you turned it off to input the contacts why do you need it when finding them?also its quicker to press the keys more times for names since the dictionary isnt going to know every single name out there"

When inputting names I agree, it is easier doing it with the 'abc' dictionary, but once they are on your phone it is much faster finding them with T9 - for instance searching for 'Chris' takes 5 presses on T9 but 15 using 'abc'. There are a LOT of different names in the world but not so many on my phone.

I wanted to like this phone, I wouldn't have bought it if I didn't! I REALLY wanted to get an N80 when it comes out but this experience has totally put me off. It may well be because of the Orange firmware, but since that is all I have access to that is all I can try. The 18 month old Orange firmware C500 kills the brand new Orange firmware N70, with the exception of 3G. Unfortunately the phone is THAT bad that I can't live with it just to get 3G data services. I have now ordered a 3G card for my laptop instead.

Dr Who, you must have just posted about a second after me! See my post above for a possible cause of the caller display problem!!

"you are very funny, I guess that you work for Microsoft or one of his companies for writing such nonsense !!!!"

Nuh, just average Joe User who has actually TRIED both of the products.

"Unless you don't know how to use a phone with a superb os, which happens quite often with users of windows products ....."

Not saying it is perfect bro, just that the Orange N70 (the only one I have experience of) is dog slow and has faults that, to me, render it unusable.

"So get back your N70, learn how to use it, and buy yourself a Mac too !!!"

I know how it works, it just doesn't work very well! I use a Mac at home and work and have several thanks. I also use a PC. Both do certain things very well, so it would be foolish to say one is better than the other, it depends on the user. The only thing that I liked about the N70 was the 3G and the Blue Tooth (non existant and poor on Windows Smartphones, BTW) but the package is really poor.

Happy new year[/QUOTE]

Cheers Seb, that was my first thought. I looked for duplicates but for the most of the numbers that weren't IDing there weren't any. Then I tried number format. Then I tried deleting the problem entry and saving the number from Call History and it STILL didn't work. I don't put it past a problem with syncing the numbers from Outlook but I have hundreds of contacts and moving from a non series 60 phone I had no other way of transferring them other than doing and re-doing SIM transfers. Really TOO boring to bother sorting out.

bluestar wrote:🙄 you are very funny, I guess that you work for Microsoft or one of his companies for writing such nonsense !!!!

Unless you don't know how to use a phone with a superb os, which happens quite often with users of windows products .....

So get back your N70, learn how to use it, and buy yourself a Mac too !!!

Silly war-of-religion-style answer (confirmed by reference to Mac!). What he is saying has nothing to do with not being able to use a phone; and a superb OS (maybe superb is "slightly" overstated but anyway) can also happen to be used on shitty products....

BTW you sound like someone who has never used another OS so maybe it's time for a reality check on your side.... try other options so your comparisons will be based on facts... at least the guy you attack has tried to change boats with an open mind attitude!

If you have a 3G phone (this applies to all networks) and a 3G data bundle, the bundle covers you for GPRS data too. So if out of 3G coverage you do not suddenly pay GPRS costs for data.

Ah, I hadn't appreciated that, Jay. OK, that mitigates some of my fury regarding my third point. Doesn't make any of the others any easier to live with. It is now sat in its box waiting to be returned. I really hope the (Orange) N80 is a cut above the N70 or I will be REALLY disappointed. Maybe the E60 would be a better bet for me. Or maybe Nokias just aren't for me at the moment.

Your Orange 3G data contract doesnt actually drop in to GPRS when in a non 3G area, it drops into 'high speed gprs or edge or eGPRS as it is sometimes called' (they all share the same icon on your phone)

You will not be charged extra when you drop into GPRS, Orange's 3G data package allows you too to do it when out of 3G coverage.

There would be no point in a 3G only option as the phone would be rendered useless for calls etc once outside 3G coverage.

Browser wise you should have installed the Opera browser (available free from http://www.opera.com it is much faster than the built in browser, displays instantly. (most N70's come with it preinstalled, orange remove it)

The orange home screen is now the same across all there phones including new SPV's and is at this time unremovable, Orange have done it to provide a consistant look across there products. (you can have your N70 reflashed at a Nokia service point with a generic software to remove it)

The Caller ID prob if not caused by duplicates is probably done to the way PS suite and active sync work, if I sync my PPC or XDA with my PC it buggers up my contacts pn my N70, even though no changes were made, they obviously sync in a slightly different manner, i found that by only entering contacts in outlook it syncs to both phone and PPC ok. I had to adjust the contacts in outlook to display first name first. and then I could enter contacts in my N70 also

Dr, Who? wrote:Ah, I hadn't appreciated that, Jay. OK, that mitigates some of my fury regarding my third point. Doesn't make any of the others any easier to live with. It is now sat in its box waiting to be returned. I really hope the (Orange) N80 is a cut above the N70 or I will be REALLY disappointed. Maybe the E60 would be a better bet for me. Or maybe Nokias just aren't for me at the moment.

My serious recommendation would be not to buy an Orange branded phone. Look at another network where customisation is not so evident. The Vodafone branding on the N70, for instance, whilst clearly there is easily removable (FExplorer to remove the network logo, change theme, change shortcuts, and that's pretty much all you need)

I can't see any reason why the E61 or N80 will be any less butchered by Orange. I had the 6680 on Orange, hated it, the N70 on Voda is a much better product.

As Orange subsidise the cost of your handset the view can be taken that they are free to do as they please. My advice would be look at an alternative network (and the only real serious alternative is Vodafone) or buy sim free.

Hi Ratkat, I didn't think Orange supported EDGE in the UK? I hadn't appreciated that the 3G data usage and GPRS data usage were combined - it might have helped if this had been made more obvious by Orange.

I didn't mind the front page home screen per se, as you observe it is the same on the C500 so I am completely used to it. I can even see the benefit, since on moving to the N70 it was familiar. The fact you can't remap the right hand soft key, or at least I couldn't, to contacts or anything else was annoying - why do I need 3 ways to get to the web browser from the front page??? You are probably right, I should have installed Opera which I am guessing would not be locked to the Orange home site but they only give you 7 days to return the phone and I had the feeling this might have been a sticking plaster over a more serious problem. I suspected a fault with the sync mechanism, in fact the last name/first name thing is something I suspected but it was a job to sort out my contacts list and with no guarantee that callerID would then work and the deadline looming I just boxed it up.

Jay, I have a fantastic contract with Orange which makes it impossible to swap networks and the idea of shelling out £300 for a SIM free is just too painful when being offered it for free.

I am sure there were work-rounds for some of the problems I encountered, and I am used to having to do this on my Windows phones for instance, but I was very disappointed by the performance of the phone in general.

I may revisit Nokia when the N80 comes out and investigate it closely.

Hah! I have just started experiencing the contacts problem you have!

Got a girl from work's number, shared a few texts, all good, then earlier get an incoming call from an unrecognised number, woman starts talking to me as if she knows me, so I'm forced to say "umm, sorry, who is this?". Guess what, it was her, on the same number that I have stored. Very uncool.

Her contact name shows up fine on messages, but doesn't appear when she calls, or in the call log on the phone! What the hell is going on here?

I never managed to figure it out, Seb. If you make any progress I would be interested to know what caused it.

Wasn't there a problem with another Symbian phone. not recognising numbers unless they were in the international format? Or maybe it was the other way round? Could be something to do with that.....

Jay3gsm wrote:Wasn't there a problem with another Symbian phone. not recognising numbers unless they were in the international format? Or maybe it was the other way round? Could be something to do with that.....

I tried that. It has always been a problem with my C500!

I tried 078xxxxxxxx, +4478xxxxxxxx and +44 78xxxxxxxx none of which worked. The incoming number showed up as 078xxxxxxxx, which I saved as the only number for that contact and it STILL wouldn't ID it. Except in the missed call shown from the Orange home page side bar, but in the actual call log it still showed as only the number. Given that I would say it HAS to be a software problem.

Good luck.

most lickely to be a software problem. getting a firmware upgrade might have solved it.btw dr who? orange are feeding u b.s. if they told you that flashing your phone byu a nokia service centre would invalidate your warrenty,its nokia that made thoe phone therefore your warrenty is with them not orange, but i can see your dilema you only had 1 week to get to grips with a completely new OS took me at least 3 weeks to get to grips with it.

OK, maybe not invalidate the warranty but I would imagine them getting very sniffy about providing Orange Care with a flashed handset. Orange Care has got much worse lately - the reason I took the upgrade is over the course of 2 months they continually refused to replace a faulty handset for me, telling me that it crashing every day and having problems hearing other people when I was phoning them wasn't a serious fault. I know they have stitched C500 owners up when they have flashed it with non-Orange ROMs. Ah well, roll on the N80 - I hope they do a better job with that than the N70.

Tried an N70 on O2 last night and it is a definite improvement. Opera is light years ahead of the shan Nokia offering - why Orange saw fit to remove this I have no idea. I guess to make sure everyone has to visit the Orange portal before they go anywhere else. Also, mapping the right hand soft key to contacts makes vastly more sense than putting the internet there. However opening contacts is still slow if the app isn't already open. Not sorry that I sent it back.

eveything takes time when laoding it for the first time in that boot up.but once its been opened theres a certain precess/task that remians running even if you close that app. e.g. menu opening is slow then it leaves a process running so its quicker same with the contacts

The interesting thing here is that with regards to speed is that in my experience S60 is better than WM. But this may be partly the way I use the phone. Task switching is quicker in S60 (S60 seems to do multi tasking much better). If you have contacts open its instant swicth back. The nice thing about the N70 is the extra memory means that you can keep more programs open.

The mapping of softkeys should be configurable and Orange also remove the valuable Active Idle feature which I suspect some people will miss.

To be fair multitasking is probably better in S60 although it starts running much slower much earlier than Windows phones I have used, although they have all had much higher system resources and a faster processor. But my C500 kills the N70 for speed in opening apps, data handling, rendering web pages, etc, etc. I may have been able to live with an N70 for phone calls alone but as a smartphone it is, IMHO, behind the Windows powered alternatives. I am seriously hoping that the N80 performs better (is it Symbian 9.0???) - the feature set is much better than that available on any Windows Smartphone platform at the moment and I would love to have it IF it works properly on Orange.

The N80 I tried was quick, but then I don't find my N70 slow (the exception being start up, but then they are all guilty of this).

I've also got a C500 and the biggest problem I had with it was it was just slower doing things and wasn't as good as a phone; there were other things too - camera (compared to a 6670 back then). I also had the fairly common issue that it needed rebooting fairly frequently. Of course some of this speed difference would probably be explained by familiarity with S60, but I also think its down the S60 generally be more usable (bit of a nebuolous concept eh!) and therefore quicker carrying out tasks. Incidentally Windoes Mobile 5 has defintely narrowed the gap, but the S60 3rd Edition devices widen the gap again (and the feature set of say the N80 is quite a bit more compelling.

I guess the reality is that everyone will have thier own preferences and I think thats a good thing. Having two strong competitors defintely help us consumers.

Call quality WAS better on the N70 and signal strength was better. And the way they work definitely requires a different mindset, a bit like Macs and PCs, and it took me quite a while to get my head round the C500 but once I did I much prefer it. The cameras are also rubbish on the all the Windows phones I have seen. It is for all these reasons I wanted to try the N70. Ah well, I'll upgrade one of my handsets to a C600 and then the other to an N80 and see which I prefer! I just hope Orange don't do their best to kill the functionality (such as removing the WLAN present on the HTC Typhoon on the Orange branded C600). Do you know whether the N80 will have enough power to run a VoIP application?

Yes I think VOIP on the N80 is quite likely.

Yep hope Orange doesn't do too much to remove stuff from the N80.

As ever, if you buy a subsidised handset you take the risk that the network will brand the handset as they see fit. I can't see Orange changing their mind on the branding issue, they see it as the way forward and have no currentp lans to change it. I've seen so many posts on so many forums around this issue, the reply from Orange is always the same.

Your options are buy from a.n.other network that don't brand so heavily, or buy sim free. If you need to buy Orange, have a look at the de-branding services available. I got my Orange 6680 de-branded before I sold it, the 6680 was so much better without the Orange homescreen.

Don't let Orange customisation ruin the opinion of what is going to be a great handset.

Get N90. A true next generation phone.

fdxd wrote:Get N90. A true next generation phone.

.... and next generation trousers (that is trousers with giant pockets)....