Read-only archive of the All About Symbian forum (2001–2013) · About this archive

MOVED FOR ADMIN DISCUSSION - C64 games...tested and snapped.

13 replies · 85 views · Started 20 November 2002

Hi,

Here is where i will be posting all the c64 games that gets a "Nosferatu O.K"... How do i judge them??? well... it's all about playability... nice graphic... great sound FX... and most important of all... runs smoothly on our 9210!!!

in the .ZIP file, u'll get:

1. a copy of the game.
2. snap of the game.

What is "SNAP"??? okay, "SNAP" is basically just like a saved game...
the reason why i include the "SNAP" is so that u guys could load the game easier (u can use it as "shortcuts" at the desk)... 😉

Here's PacMania by NAMCO LTD.

Graphics: Jason Wilson
Programmed: Shaun Hollingworth Peter Harrad
Musician: Ben Daglish
Developed by: Grandslam Entertainment
Published by: Namco

Its basically Pacman in 3D with the capability to jump...
Very nice and is a "MUST" for PacMan fan...

It's Bubble Bobble time!!! spit those bubbles baby...

Graphics: Andrew Threlfall
Programmed: Stephen Ruddy
Musician: Peter Clarke
Developed by: Software Creations
Published by: Firebird

What i like most abt this game would be the great sound/music...
and it's really cute too!!!

Right then, moderator hat goes on. Technically these games are still in copyright and cannot be redistributed. I refer you to Codemasters UK who have said that they will protect the copyright on all tehir old games just as if they were Colin MacRae Rally 4 for PS2.

Now we could get into a long debate on the meits of old games, but copyright lasts for 100 years, and if we protect new stuff, what are we going to do about the old stuff?

Comments welcome.

It may seem ok to make old C64 games available for download for nostalgic purposes, although copyrights are still valid for a long time...

There's a few arguments for Nostalgia...

Firstly, many of the programs are more than 15 years old.

Secondly, no Commodore 64 software is available for sale from any retail outlet anywhere and because no software is available at a reasonable fee, this supposendly allows users to copy the software freely because it doesn't damage anybody's business (No company is losing profits/money, since none of the old stuff can be found anywhere on sale!).

Thirdly, the Commodore 64 is an obsolete machine (the company went bankrupt in 1994) because no-one is sure who owns the rights to the 64.

In any case, if someone has a problem or concern with me posting games on my page, they should email me or PM me and I'll remove the problem.

Having said that, the C64 is long gone and isn't coming back! I can't go to any Computer store and just simply buy it. Thus, how can it violate any sort of breach of copyright or other legal stuff, if an average person that used to have a C64 can't have one now?

If I have intentionally infringed on anyone's copyright or trademarks - I apologize (email me immediately so that I can fix the problem...)

Wait, is this all really really legal???

Legalwise:

Doing/owning an emulator is not illegal. Usually, an emulator is written by using publicly documented information about the chips inside a home console or an arcade machine. How to make it all work and how to emulate a custom chip within the system to be emulated is usually done by trial and error, until it works.
What is illegal is to a) include ROMS with an emulator, and b) be in possesion of ROM images of games that you do not own. But even this is a little dubious...

Section 117 of the U.S.C. Title 17 (Copyright law), states:
(Note: different countries may have slighty different laws)

Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or
(2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful. Any exact copies prepared in accordance with the provisions of this section may be leased, sold, or otherwise transferred, along with the copy from which such copies were prepared, only as part of the lease, sale, or other transfer of all rights in the program. Adaptations so prepared may be transferred only with the authorization of the copyright owner."

Console games/arcade games are classified as computer programs.

So, according to the copyright law, you CAN own a copy of a software program you own(contrary to what Nintendo and the IDSA wants you to believe). But in the case of ROMS, you can't copy them so websites have to distribute them.

About copies of software that you do not own, the Copyright Information Act Proposed Update of 1995 states:

"Any software no longer being sold with a copyright older than 2 years becomes public domain, the reason being that such software becomes obsolete because of advancements on the medium and technology."

So, old games are now public domain. It is still unresearched if the update was passed. More research on this will be soon made...

Still, even if you/we might be on the legal side, we are in the emulation scene because of the classic games. To preserve these games. They just can't cease to exist. But to protect the industry, it is a self-applied rule among emulator programmers and webmasters to not emulate/distribute newer games.

If you have or represent a business which feel that this collection harm your business in any way, then please let me know and I shall remove the part disturbing you. The intention is not to cause harm, but to spread a part of the history we're proud of!!!

PLEASE NOTE I'VE MOVED THIS TO THE ADMIN SECTION UNTIL THIS ISSUES IS RESOLVED.

Very nicley put. But...

(*) It's a proposed act. At the moment, having these snaps up is viewed in exactly the same way as having a copy of Redshift's Civilisation.

(*) All About Symbian does not condone software piracy. This is software piracy.

(*) All About Symbian is under UK Law, and distribution of applciations where you do not hold the rights it is illegal. No arguments about old games dying, presrving history, the details are lost as to the owner, etc. These aren't legal arguments. They're not yours. You can't post them.

Discuss.

As an aside, I'm all for preserving old games, even from rubbish systems like the C64, but I don't think All About Symbian is the place to do so. Perhaps setting up a site forall the C64 roms is an idea (unless i's all ready been done).

[quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]
(*) All About Symbian does not condone software piracy. This is software piracy.[/quote]

:evil: If it is software piracy, pls tell me where can i buy (hahahahaha...) an original .64 games???(what the...?) anyway, all those games was taken from a famous .64 games: www.c64.com (come on, wake up dude!!!)

I'm with Ewan on this one. I don't have great expertise in this area, but what I would say is that this does legally full into the same category as software swapping etc. Yes the situations are different in one sense, but not legally and thats what I as having overall responsibility for the site have to think about.

I have to admit I probably would download old games like this without a second thought, but that's not the issue here. It appears to be a different issue from warez but legally it is not.

We cant say no to one and yet condone another even indirectly.. I think perhaps direct linking may be OK, but I'd be interested to hear others views.

I am open to having my mind changed, but I looing form the position of being able to defend the sites position on software piracy (I have to spend too much time on it as it is).

Opinions?

Rafe

[quote="Nosferatu"][quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]
(*) All About Symbian does not condone software piracy. This is software piracy.[/quote]

:evil: If it is software piracy, pls tell me where can i buy (hahahahaha...) an original .64 games???(what the...?) anyway, all those games was taken from a famous .64 games: www.c64.com (come on, wake up dude!!!)[/quote]

That's not the point nosferatu, I want to see the games preserved too, but I have to think about the overall view in AAS terms.

Software piracy is defined not by whether you can buy something, but by whether someone legally owns the rights.

Hmmmm... The Tiger has spoken... i'm going to create a new one with only short reviews and screen captures then... :cry:

p/s: don't worry, i will also not add any links on where to get it...

[quote="Nosferatu"][quote="Ewan-FreEPOC"]
(*) All About Symbian does not condone software piracy. This is software piracy.[/quote]

:evil: If it is software piracy, pls tell me where can i buy (hahahahaha...) an original .64 games???(what the...?) anyway, all those games was taken from a famous .64 games: www.c64.com (come on, wake up dude!!!)[/quote]

You can buy them at most PC retailers in the UK, these games *ARE* for sale still (albeit on a CD with a selection of emulators for windoze/linux/etc). As are Spectrum, Amiga, Atari ST games.

:-? It's also actually still on sale here in my country... but only at pirated CD outlets... and the last time i went there the CD's fully covered with spider webs...

These are official licensed CDs with the games on with permission, the speccy CD has over 3000 games on it, needless to say as all is above board and legal royalties must be payed. Hence the original companies are still getting the cash.

confession: "in Malaysia, 80% of goods are pirated... from CD, VCD, DVD to software CD... we are full of pirates here... but i see no ship..."