S60 'awkward and unintuitive'? I beg to disagree...

Steve I agree with you.

S60 is probably one of the best UI around.
Easy to understand, to customise and to work with.

I've been using it since 2002, and I don't think I'll ever change.

I have kind of a love/hate relationship with Series 60. I think that fact that it is so ubiquitous now that pretty much anyone can pick up a Series 60 device and know how to use it is great for the industry and for consumers. If people are looking to buy a new phone and come to ask me for advice (as they often do) I recommend a Nokia - either Series 40 or 60, dependant on the user. A large part of that is that I know they will be able to pick it up and use it without having to read through a 100 page manual.

But I hate it. In my opinion, the fact that people can pick it up an use it doesn't necessarily make it any good. I find it very awkward to use and it takes far too long to do anything out of the ordinary. The fact that it's obvious what you need to do to acheive something doesn't make it easy or quick. In fact, almost the opposite. The fact that I can see what I want to do but I have to fiddle about with some p*ssy little joystick and jump from icon to icon and through folders to get there just makes it frustrating.

Then again, I hate T9 and all that rubbish, so maybe my wife is right and I'm just a grumpy old man 😊

Aha. What you need is my article http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/How_to_launch_and_switch_to_applications_more_quickly.php

8-)

Steve

I don't think the S60 interface is the best thing since sliced bread (I know heracy eh?). I do think it comes in for way more than it's share of critcism. Certainly it is one of the best phone UIs around, and I think it is the best smartphone UI by a margin.

I think it is important to consider that it is a smartphone UI and these are a lot harder to do well than simple interfaces. The problem is getting the complexity / richness of functionality in / available without losing simplicity. I think its fair to say the increase in functionality on S60 has made this harder as new devices / features are added.

People seem to sometimes have a reaction against it because it's not familiar. However if you do take the trouble to get over an intial learning curve I think you find it quicker and easy to use than any similar product. The reason - the UI is designed for mobile.

I've always believed that the S60 UI has what I call the 'Bish-Bash-Bosh' factor in that you can pick it up and use it without having to think about interface elements.

There are interfaces out there which have some wonderful bells and whistles and, to an extent, have a greater efficiency. But to my mind, humanity aren't efficient creatures and what we need is something that works with us and S60 does that.

Interestingly, I feel the same about OS X - it works with me. Windows and Windows Mobile, on the other hand, demand that I learn its language and I refuse to think the 'Microsoft Way'... because I prefer to think ;-p)

Can't stand the Symbian UI myself. My mind works in a 'Windows' way - hence I actually find the much reviled Windows Mobile OS extremely intuitive and easy. Horses for courses I guess.

If we're talking about what makes the most sense to someone who has literally NO computer experience then there might be an element of truth in the reviewers comments.

If you truely want a device that has the ability to be used by those without the experience of a computer then the pen and paper paradigm of Palm OS may well be a more familiar environement. The idea that you have a list of things you can do and to do one you literally just point at it is going to be more inuative that the idea that you move a selection recticle relative to it current position in series of absolute steps by a fixed axis limited movement joystick. Also if you're looking from the point of view that if you're holding your smart phone then it means you want to use it the idea of a standby screen is about as pointless as splash screens that used to be so popular on the web a few years ago. I'm going to select a program to run if I'm holding the thing so why can't it show me them straight away. Alternativly if you're going to make a call then you will be about to press the number buttons, in which case it could detect that and move to phone mode without a problem.

Having said all this however I feel compeled to mention three things:
1, The Symbian OS (with the possible exception of the standby screen... which can be a bit silly really) is designed the way it is so that some objects can be deliberatly hidden from immediate view. This means that provided you can remeber how to get to all the options you have less overall movements with the joystick and operations can actually be faster.
2, Styluses are a real pain when it comes to either losing them (the statisfying click they make when you drop them in the holder always seems to wear off and they become loose and fallout) or breaking them.
3, I really hate PalmOS... I suspect this is due to having used the Psion series for so long and then being forced to re-learn to write with that stupid graphitti system.

Graphitti system? The Palm Treo 650 has a full qwerty keyboard. You don�t need graphitti. You know� I hardly ever take the stylus out on my Treo. Everything can be done with the keyboard, you don't need the stylus.

Now, about S60� simply because something can be used by a 6-year old doesn't mean it's good. In fact that's what makes S60 a child's toy, not a professional's toy.

Just thought I'd add my two pennorth!
I had a 7650 when they first came out and it was good.
I "upgraded" to an MPX 200 (Why? I hear you shout!)
I gave that to my wife and went back to the 7650.
I "upgraded" to an SPV 500 mainly to get the bluetooth headset profile.
I've now UPgraded to an N70 and all is well again!
As long as you realise it's mainly a data viewer and not an editor (although it can be done) then S60 is the dogs *********!!
It is a very smart phone; but it's not a laptop!
Derek

I feel that S60 is actually very easy and intuitive only for new users. Once you become used to it, or if you're already an experienced computer/smart phone user, the interface slows you down considerably.

Steve's tip about arranging the icons to speed things up is a great tip, but there's no way to use such shortcuts if you're presented with a text menu, you're still forced to scroll through the menu. At least with S60 V2 you can wrap around menus. When I first used S60, if you had a really long menu, it was really painful...

And I hate those little animations.

It's a bit like Windows XP's default theme that new users love, but with XP, you can disable everything and use the classic view.

I think S60 is almost the best UI for SmartPhones! :icon14:

I'm a real harduser and I'm very content with my phone. (I'm using an N70 now.)

I can read RSS, web, instant emails everywhere and the UI fully supports multitasking (last summer I was listening MP3 on my 6630 while my girlfriend was playing games on it)...
The UI is very simple and you can heavily personalize it... (the UI themes not only change the colors, but every piece of the grafical interface) You can change the icons places and folders, you can fully organise your hundreds of applications...

...and for God sake, it's not a simple mobile it's a smartphone! 😊

The article wrote:How could the reviewer confuse the handful of standby shortcuts for the device's 'main menu'?

That doesn't surprise me one bit. I once read a review of the 9300 where the reviewer complained about the lack of options within each application - apparently the reviewer hadn't noticed the Menu button on the keyboard... 🙄

As far as S60 as a UI is concerned, I agree with Bassey. I much prefer Series 80 and UIQ over S60. I've never been a huge fan of S60, and I do find it somewhat awkward, but it has definitely improved alot since my 7650 days. What annoys me though, is how Nokia has improved the screen resolution in the 3rd edition but _not_ adjusted the UI accordingly. One more row of applications in the launcher, but still only 3 messages can be seen at a time in the Messaging application etc. Pretty ridiculous.

Btw., I also hate the 'Windows way' of doing things. Which I never found intuitive and 'easy to get to grips with'. Took me a long time to really understand how to work a Windows machine. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Most of the people I know hate T9. They'd only enter text if a thumbboard were present. Here in the US Treos and Blackberries rule for good reason.

This guy obviously doesn't know how to use a phone....what a stupid article. I'll probably never use anything other than a s60 phone again.

I think FRiC has hit the nail on the head. A really good UI should be easy to learn at the begining but it should also be flexible enough to allow you to work quicker as you become more familiar with it. Series 60 is very much a one-paced UI and, as a result, I find it highly frustrating.

And I also dislike the windows way of doing things. My desktop is kept completely free of icons and I invest considerable time in arranging and maintaining the menu structure under the start menu. There are never more than eight items in a menu and most items have shortcuts to avoid using the mouse.

However, most of the time I use various keyboard shortcuts and custom buttons to invoke macro's that launch programs and perform commands in a pre-defined sequence. It may not be a part of the OS, but at least Windows does allow me to become more productive through investment of time. The same things can be acheived with Windows Mobile and UIQ and, although I didn't get that far, I believe Series 80.

I think we're loosing the point here.

We shouldn't forget that this phones are aimed to a target that envolves millions of regular people. not geeks like us.

Regular people don't think like "menu shortcuts" "menu items" etc. They hardluy even use it as a smartphone. They probably got it in some good deal, and they use it to make calls and sms. Some don't even get to use mms...
and they're mainstream, not us.

Are you kidding? Have you ever seen an eleven year old child use a mobile phone? It's as if they've developed a whole set of extra fingers the speed at which they use them. They don't wait for an icon to move or the screen to refresh. They have all the commands built into their muscle memory. In the time it takes an old fart like myself to figure out if I want to respond to a text now or leave it until late, my niece has hit reply, T9'd a full 160 character message, sent it and deleted the sent message to save space. They're like machine's themselves.

And eleven year old kids aren't the consumers of the future. They are today's consumers.

i think whta amkes the symbian interface so different from other interfaces is the extra physical menu button.most phones now have access to menu throgh on screen promt e.g. all series 40.this is what mkes the change over so different. my gf & friends who are used to series 40 type phones cant use my phone. either they tkae 5 mins to find the menu or load upp app that are shortcutted to my soft keys.its funny watching them, kinda like your nan triying to program your VCR/DVD!!

im a 17yr old & have been using symbian since the age of 15 & dont find it hard or clunky but some times it does slow me down.when replying to a msg(on my n70) it takes about 3 seconds to load up the write new msg screen(in which time i could have wrote bout a line of txt). i think symbians good but for peaople who arnt using it on a daily basis then its hard for them & for people who use it on a daily basis it can slow us down.

I'd say that Symbian phones are definitely good for people who use them on a daily basis, provided they really need a smartphone and know how to use them to their full potential. There are better camera phones out there, and there are phones better and much easier to use if simply making calls and sending SMS's are the things that matter the most. For those who want a little more power under the hood though, a Symbian phone is definitely a good choice.

"Dr, Who?
Comment: Can't stand the Symbian UI myself."

Erm... why are you reading a website called "All About Symbian" then? :tongue:

In any case, Symbian is the OS, Series 60 is the UI. If you don't like Series 60, you could try Symbian UIQ which is totally different and uses a stylus and touch screen.

oh so thats the diff bettween s60 & UIQ.didnt mean to sound like such a n00b then but wondered that for ages!!

It's hard to shoot people down about there opinions. While I completely appreciate this guys opinion on S60, I actually have some credentials to shoot it down. I am an instructor. Specifically, I teach people how to use there operating system. In short, I've used them all. Mac OS (0 to OSX) Windows (3.1-XP), Linux (maily RedHat and Ubuntu), Windows Mobile, Palm OS, Blackberry, S60, UIQ, and many proprietary OS's. Along with 19 years of computer experience, I can safely say that I picked up S60 faster than and mobile OS. Blackberry was really easy too, but I'll still side with S60. It is very intuitive; I can navigate anywhere within seconds. And it is super customizable with millions of capabilities for ANY user. I put this guy in the catagory of 'luddite.' He's someone who probably has little experience with computers but thinks he knows it all. Here is the difference though. One can know everything about a computer, but that doesn't mean you understand computers.