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Penny pinching over RAM

27 replies · 5,565 views · Started 02 August 2006

slitchfield 02 Aug 2006, 06:57

In which I look back over the years and reckon that the current generation of S60 3rd Edition smartphones are relatively underpowered. A mobile lobotomy, anyone?

Read on in the full article.

Slartibartfast 02 Aug 2006, 07:59

I completely agree - it's even more perverse because, although RAM prices do fluctuate, it's well known that NOKIA has such buying power that it gets a very good deal on memory.

I dallied briefly with a windows phone - an Orange M500 - and it was crippled in the same way. There was so little memory left after it had booted, installed it's own extras, and oranges guff on top that you couldn't run a thing. It became normal practice to apply the "reset hack" where you hard reset the phone and then soft reset during the process to STOP the additional software being installed. The unit was less functional - but it did have enough memory to run a 3rd party PIM without collapsing.

I hope a third firmware update will result in even more free RAM (or a better behaved browser) on the N80.

Utenteanonimo64 02 Aug 2006, 08:37

I think this clearly shows that in Nokia's eyes Symbian is just an operating system outsourced for business and financial reasons not because they want to exploit the potential of the OS. I am a "power user" and during the time I used the 6630 I was extremely frustrated with the lack of RAM but we also know that most users of Symbian phones do not install a single additional application and actually quite often don't even know that applications can be installed, so why should Nokia spend money for a niche of power users when they can sell those phones anyway....

Trat 02 Aug 2006, 09:06

Good point Utenteanonimo64, but at least Nokia should have come up with an solution for the user to expand that memory...

JuhaN 02 Aug 2006, 09:18

Couldn't agree more with you Steve...

I abandoned stand-alone-PDA scene when I bought Nokia 3650. I liked it a lot but the RAM problem was quite annoying. So annoying that I swiched that to N-Gage just to get OperaMobile working!! That was luxury that time. Over 11MB free RAM after boot. I could launch Opera, Headline, AgileMessenger, ProfiMail and Papyrus and just let them all run background... Then my N-Gage broke down just two months before arrival of E61! I got a Nokia 6630 to replace it and thought that I could manage with about 8MB's. I was so wrong... Somehow the OS kept closing my apps even if I thought there was enoug RAM for all of my essential apps.

I now have my E61 and I'm quite satisfied. I get about 20MB free RAM after boot and I can live with that as long as I don't use the preinstalled Web-browser. My Mail for Exchange is connected 24/7, AgileMessenger most of the day and I still have some RAM for OperaMobile (I love SmallScreenRendering!!), Headline and AquaCalendar (waiting for Papyrus).

Nokia could easily put more RAM in these smartphone-communicator-multimedia-beasts but that way I'd be happy with my phone too long. Now I really need to buy the next Nokia Exx in 2007 at least to have some (but not too much) more RAM... 😉

=)juha

slitchfield 02 Aug 2006, 10:02

Utenteanonimo64 wrote:most users of Symbian phones do not install a single additional application and actually quite often don't even know that applications can be installed, so why should Nokia spend money for a niche of power users when they can sell those phones anyway....

True about 3rd party apps, but I'm talking in the article mainly about the built-in apps - you can easily hit RAM limits just by running up 3 or 4 of the built-in applications 8-(

Steve

Joar 02 Aug 2006, 13:01

Isnt memory rather energy consuming? I thought that was the main reason for limiting the memory on phones. Battery lifetime on new smartphones are quite appaling really, compared to what you get on a low end phone...

That said, S60 v3 isnt really a work of art is it? I have yet to hear developers for S60 applications actually saying anything else than the OS being absolutely crap, and a nightmare to develope on... Hopefully memory handling will be better in future versions of S60, though.

fig7 02 Aug 2006, 13:22

The OS is just fine. Symbian's new kernel is actually a big improvement on the old one and I reckon the platform security stuff is actually fairly well implemented too. For me the big problems are in other areas. The S60V3 emulator is almost useless and the developer tools that are meant to replace Microsoft VC6 have too many issues that make developing a real pain in the ass. In terms of applications, S60 is beginning to see the same problems as Windows in that applications are consuming more and more memory. At least with PC's you can just upgrade the RAM (2GB is usually enough!) Since you can't upgrade the RAM in phones they should put more in to start with, or release versions of the phones with more memory so that we can pay extra if we want more RAM.

Rafe 02 Aug 2006, 13:24

Its clearly for reasons of economics (i.e. what do 90% of users need) and a decision of cost vs utility. Doesn't mean we have to like it though!

Joar - I think if anything S60 3rd Edition is now a lot better. Its not a nightmare to develop on if you know what you're doing. Technically is much more avanced that its competitors. The problem is more on of experience, tools and to a lesser extent documentation.

nj7 02 Aug 2006, 14:01

Agree! Steve - "Small wonder then that the arrival of the N70, with around 30MB of free RAM, was greeted with loud acclaim and with enormous sales. On the N70, RAM never runs low and you can run almost anything you like, confident that it won't impinge upon othe running applications."
One more reason why I like the N70.
And the cost is not a reasonable answer, because are so many phones whit so many different prices, then are place to do a RAM segmentation!
Why an N93 don�t have more RAM? Is an high price model! Same to N80 and N91!
Now, N71 have only 10Mb of RAM, before boot the System!
And nobody can add more RAM after purchase of device.
With micro SD is not the original intention to do a memory, that can be used like RAM and like Card memory?

jrmt 02 Aug 2006, 14:19

If you mean RAM, yes. However, the kernel will attempt to map processes (used memory) into the least number of physical RAM banks via MMU tricks, so that unused RAM banks can be powered down. RAM is not that energy expensive compared to the LCD though, which with the backlight on, can really eat through battery life. That's why I run with the brightness turned down, as battery life is improved.

puterman 02 Aug 2006, 17:49

About S60 from a developer's perspective, it hasn't improved with 3rd edition. It's not much worse, but platform security makes it a bit more complicated. The main problems still remain: the documentation is way below reasonable quality, the API:s are unintuitive, the build system is a mess etc. Ever wondered why there's so little freeware for Symbian? Because writing code for it just isn't fun.

(And no, I'm not a beginner, I have several years of experience as a professional S60 developer.)

2more 02 Aug 2006, 22:42

Can't Nokia make the "i" versions of the phones with at least 20MB RAM extra?
I would happily pay for that.

xerxes 07 Aug 2006, 13:50

nj7 wrote:After or before?

After. If you read the thread I quoted you will see he measured the free ram when the phone was turned on.

slitchfield 08 Aug 2006, 08:17

Very interesting, as another N73 source says the N73 only has 10MB free after booting..... Perhaps the 30-odd MB was actually free flash memory, i.e. storage?

Steve

nj7 08 Aug 2006, 08:35

xerxes wrote:After. If you read the thread I quoted you will see he measured the free ram when the phone was turned on.

I only ask, because the specification sheet for N73, said "Up to 42 MB* internal dynamic memory". So after boot, remains 39MB! Is fantastic...:con?

slitchfield 09 Aug 2006, 06:10

It has now been confirmed that the N73 has 20MB free after booting, the same (more or less) as every other 3rd Edition device.

Steve

nj7 05 Oct 2006, 22:22

Time to update the table of the article... N73 is a disaster with RAM😡 . With 2-3 applications and is over. I think of return to N70! I lose the screen and camera, but at least all works without limitation after limitation.

nj7 06 Oct 2006, 10:21

Is enouth have something open, and then try to open a Browser or Real Player, with all screen... crash😡 It shouldn�t be like that. What�s the point for Nokia? 5 - 10 USD by phone on global cost? N73 behavior is very bad, when compared with N70.

nj7 07 Oct 2006, 09:52

After boot, between 7-8Mb.
On boot, SMS-Accel (by Nokia), MenuKeyServer (Nokia), EasStartup (also Nokia), nothing eles.
After that, Contacts, Messages and Calendar + Real Player or + Browser, and all fails.
On N70, nothing is like that, as You know.
I read about some complains on N80 and the way, with previous versions of software, it fill the memory, before a power off. Maybe N73 have the same problem.
All that give me a lot of suspicions about new releases and new phones, because seems a not resolved problem by Nokia.
By the way, N91, have the same problem... not so serious it seems.

slitchfield 08 Oct 2006, 11:35

Splutter! 7-8MB????

It should be about 20MB! Something's not right with your device. I'd try a full backup and hard reset and see what the figure is then.

No wonder you're having problems. My N73 has just under 20MB after booting.

Steve

nj7 08 Oct 2006, 11:44

Thanks. I�m serious thinking to return to loyal N70. For work, right now, is more reliable then that one. I know what I lose, but know also what I win.