Communicators - Head to Head - E70 vs TyTN vs P990i

I, too, am very Symbian biased but I have to say having had the chance to use the two Symbian models that the E70 comes out tops. (If only I was 'allowed' by Nokia to update the FW it would be even better!) I am very keen for the P900i to work for me as I like the device a lot but keep going back to S60 (having just about shaken of S80!) and will be very keen to see Ewan's forthcoming review and SE sorting out the RAM - I tried to play a game the other day on it, from a clean boot and it still wouldn't run. This is the most annoying thing about the SE ATM.

Good appriasal, though Steve.

Tim

Yes, over and over again, FOR EVERY SINGLE SYMBIAN OS 9 DEVICE, I keep seeing not enough RAM for the purpose and not enough volume from the music player. The latter, I'm suspecting, is to comply with some new mad EEC rule on ear safety(?). For the former, maybe there's some hard coded limit to the amount of RAM in Symbian OS now? I can't believe it, yet over and over again we're seeing the same problem.

8-(

Steve

Is there really no Task Manager on the TyTn? If you go to Running Programs on my Vario II you have the option of properly closing or activating any currently running program and this can be placed as a shortcut from the today screen. I had assumed this was part of the WM5 ROM.

The edge sharpness is pretty bad on the default setting but this is accessible through the camera tools and when turned to the minimum setting is MUCH better. Also, turning the contrast down to minimum helps too.

I too have all three devices and find myself in a bind. The Tytn is by far the best business phone here, but the multimedia function lets it down.

For me I'm torn betweent the E70 and P990i. Simple reason is I love the P990i's larger screen and camera. The slowness/stability and lack of 3rd party software is a let down. The E70 would be a hands down winner here for me if it had better sync capabilities. By this I mean that all the information in Contacts and Calendar on my outlook gets transfered to the phone. I write a lot of notes in the contacts and calendar and they don't sync over at all, which is a shame.

I've been waiting for a comparison like this. Thanks Steve for writing a comparison I really wanted to see.

Dr Who: yes, buried within Control panel - System - Running programs is the list of tasks, but most users will never find this. I don't know why HTC didn't include their own Task Manager they wrote for (for example) the MTeoR.

And yes, camera settings can be tweaked to a degree for all three devices, but 99% of users snap away with default settings, so these are the ones to compare directly. IMHO. I'm a heavy camera user and all I ever fiddle with is exposure, for example.

tkao: er.... attached notes on Calendar and Contact entries sync across perfectly and have done ever since S60 2nd Edition FP3..... Maybe something's not working properly in your setup?

Steve Litchfield

Get the spin doctors out of here...

i) either some part of the system HAS crashed
ii) some part of the system is about to crash so we'ed better shoot it before it rather embarrasingly reports a Kern-Exec failure

or the most likely reason...

iii) The RedrawStore has got in the way of any sane + rational application behaviour yet again + needs to be terminated as its making the p990 unusably slow....

Very good comparison, but I think you missed something in the connectivity section. Your listing would make it seem that all three devices offer the same range of connectivity options, but you fail to mention that the Tytn blows the other two away with quad-band GSM and tri-band UMTS/HSDPA. I know in places like Europe that doesn't matter, but for North Americans it makes a huge difference.

Otherwise great article, I'm linking to it on my site.

Alfredo
www.mobile-penguin.com

Good point, although the E70 comes in its own USA version. I wonder if the P990i will as well?

Steve

As an E70 owner (and ex-P910 owner) this is an interesting comparison to see. My own experiences with previous S60 devices vs the P910 was that S60 might be down on features compared to UIQ, but it is invariably simpler and more stable - 2 factors of primary importance with any mobile device and especially a phone.

The P990 will be the shot that sank the UIQ ship. Late, expensive and buggy. they got away with it for the P800 as there was no competition. This time, as you have shown, things are very different!

slitchfield wrote:
tkao: er.... attached notes on Calendar and Contact entries sync across perfectly and have done ever since S60 2nd Edition FP3..... Maybe something's not working properly in your setup?

Steve Litchfield

Good comparison! Thanks. And I had use almost the three (SE 910) and for me the winner is also E70!

tkao: Err... you just write text in the bottom (big) field in a Calendar entry and sync and it appears as a 'Description' on the entry in S60 Calendar. Honest! Similarly for Contacts, except the notes are actually called 'Notes'.

And you can 'Add description' at the phone end, too, and it will sync across into the same field.

It has worked ever since the N70 and N90 era.

Steve Litchfield

You're right...why haven't I notice that before??? Dumb me.

tkao: You might have been thinking about Task/ToDo notes - they don't display in S60.

Having used and owned a P990 and TyTN my additional thoughts are:

- Many people have had TyTNs with keyboard problems and screen problems. I have returned two and many people are on their fourth device!

- The P990 is much better at video and muic reproduction compared to the TyTN

- The extra RAM of the TyTN is a very strong advantage

- The TyTN becomes sluggish when using A2DP

Steve, I have just switched over from a P900 to a P990 and I think you are spot on. These were exactly the three phones that I considered. Mind you, my ideal phone would be a touch screen Nokia 9300 with the features of a P990 (3G, quality of camera, etc. I am after all an old Psion user.) However, it does not look that Nokia will ever (want to) get it right. It is quite interesting that in spite of (in my opinion) the E70 winning in a feature to feature comparison, I still prefer the P990. There are some softer features that made me choose the P990. 1) keyboard. I find the split keyboard obtrusive, attention 'seeking' and not natural (in other words, I just don't like it 😉). 2) Screen, although the resolution is higher than the P990's, I actually feel that the size is too small. I find the P990 screen more comfortable to read (especially web pages). This shows that it is not only resolution that counts, sometimes size matters. Overall, I would say the P800 concept is still the best compromise between phone and PDA (unless Nokia will finally get it) with an E80 / E90. BR, Lucas

Thanks Steve - it's my exact shortlist for a next phone! 😊

I wondered if you could give us a bit more info on their respective use-ability?

Having come from Psions to a P800 and 9500, like yourself, I am more familiar with symbian but thought about making a big step to MS for the TyTN because of the keyboard. How do the OSes compare for power(ish) users?

Also does screen size make a big difference (considering th E70 has v good resolution?) :con?

Thanks for putting it all on one page though!
Jago

Jago wrote:

Having come from Psions to a P800 and 9500, like yourself, I am more familiar with symbian but thought about making a big step to MS for the TyTN because of the keyboard. How do the OSes compare for power(ish) users?

Jago

If I can stick my oar in here I can tell you that IME the WM5 OS is very capable but I get fed up with it because of the access to the filing system and where Windows chooses to dump stuff - it's like the complicated maze of WXP, where if you want to find something, or remove an app or program(me), you'll find the component files and supporting structure are dotted all over, much like your Reg on the desktop, which I similarly struggle with constantly. With the way in which Symbian is implemented (at least before v9) and EPOC, things are much simpler and you can see where stuff is manipulate the folders and files very easily (though UIQ presents more of a challenge) and there's no hidden burried files.

If you're not bothered about this 'running the device from a File Manager' approach and are happy not to really understand or care how the system supports the apps and interface ('as long as it works'😉, IME you may well get on well with WM5. I recently tried a JAMin and it was an appauling device which went straight back for other reasons, but it reminded me once again, that I don't really get on with PPC.

Tim

I also find the keyboard easier to use on the P990i and the screen better becuase of the size.

However, I find myself keep going back to the E70 because the screen is more readable in direct sunlight. Series 60 is much easier IMO to navigate one handed. There's more software available, the wifi connects for me better than the P990i, and the sync software works a lot better. With the keypad, you can nagivate around really nice. I find that when I'm looking at a picture and I want to zoom in, I just press the #5 button. On the P990i, hold with one hand and use the other hand to click on the drop down menu and than hit zoom.

Still torn though which is best or better..................The P990i is just ooohhh so pretty.

Steve,

I have been waiting for a P990 variant to come to the States so I can replace my elderly P910 and take advantage of Cingular's new network.

Alas! It appears as if the wait isn't going to be worth it.

I picked up an E62 as Cingular give me 30 days to decide if I like it. I must say it is S----L-----O-----W. Really, terribly slow. Makes my P910 feel cheetah-like.

I am not sure that all this "cram it all into one device" thing has worked out. I mean, I love the rich graphics, but am looking for a monacle to be able to see it all.

I have an old leather case which held my Series 5mx Psion on one side and a mobile on the other. Both implements were pretty fast in terms of doing what they did. Perhaps I'll go back to that and use the IR to "wire" my psion.

Sorry guys, but the last Symbian communicator is a Nokia 9500/9300(i) ! Period 😊

If you trace the features of Agenda/Contacts/Calendar, Word (text editor), Sheet, etc, from the Psion EPOC golden days, you can see a step-by-step decrease in features : from Psion Series 5MX to Psion Revo+, then to Nokia Communicators 9xxx, then to Nokia E70. Comparing a Nokia E70 with the PIM/Office functions of a Psion EPOC is a waste of time. :icon13:

I have my Psion Revo+ turned on now to remember me what is a good mobile OS :icon14: . My Nokia 9500 is also good, but lacks many details removed from the EPOC.

Regards from Brazil

dgduris: What exactly is slow? I'm curious? Symbian OS devices are generally pretty quick once all apps are in memory, as on the old Psion. Are you sure you're not exiting each app after use?

Roberto: Yes, there's a gradual simplification process, alas. Part of it is trying to appeal to a wider range of users and part of it is (I suspect) because the programmers who knew how the old code worked aren't around to adapt it to newer devices.... 8-(

Regardless, my old Psion 5mx couldn't get online by itself, couldn't take phone calls, couldn't take print-quality photos, take videos, display colour photos, play back stereo music or movies, so on balance I'd still take the E70... But I'll grant you that in many ways a Psion 3mx (for example) would give a modern device a run for its money in some specific areas (core apps/speed, mainly) - now THERE'S a comparison article waiting to be written 8-)

Steve Litchfield

There are really two things that I notice regarding speed:

1. Key presses in the address book take 1 or 2 seconds to register (the in-built app is faster than the 3rd party app I have added) so it takes longer to look someone up than on the P910a with Alon Contact Guide

2. Entering an appointment is slower because you can't just tap the screen on the option or field you want to select, rather you must "joystick" up or down to it. (the P910 stylus/ keypad combo is much more efficient here for entering data...like a Series 5 was).

On the browser side:
Big, brilliant, beautiful screen, but the lack of a "Fit to Page" option means you have to wander the page insead of scrolling down to get to the content you want as on the Opera UIQ implementation.

I will say, though, that it is VERY stable. We'll see if that lasts as I try to add something to automate profile switching, then find an application launcher (clicking 3 pages in to launch an app is time consuming).

Steve (or any other E70 owner),

Does the E70 have a flash?

How does the E70 camera compare to the N73?

xerxes -

E70 has no flash and its camera compares poorly against the N73. Is the camera good enough for your purposes? Beats me - go look at some sample pics. There are tons out there.

xerxes wrote:Steve (or any other E70 owner),

Does the E70 have a flash?

How does the E70 camera compare to the N73?

No, no flash!
N73 have far better camera.

Just a clarification regarding Psion Series 5mx. This device runs its applications directly from the C disc (battery backed up RAM). It didn't have specific execution memory. Same goes for all Symbian OS v5 devices, except for the Ericsson R380 where the C disc is flash memory instead.

slitchfield wrote:Regardless, my old Psion 5mx couldn't get online by itself, couldn't take phone calls, couldn't take print-quality photos, take videos, display colour photos, play back stereo music or movies, so on balance I'd still take the E70...

Regardless, my old Psion 5mx couldn't get online by itself, couldn't take phone calls, couldn't take print-quality photos, take videos, display colour photos, play back stereo music or movies, so on balance I'd still take the E70... But I'll grant you that in many ways a Psion 3mx (for example) would give a modern device a run for its money in some specific areas (core apps/speed, mainly) - now THERE'S a comparison article waiting to be written 8-)

Hi Steve,

Excellent idea, i am waiting for this article. It is worth remembering, for example, that even a Psion Siena with its small screen could show in some cases more text than a Nokia 9500... yes, in some apps the Nokia 9500 has the smaller font many times bigger than the Psion Siena smaller font.

Regards, Roberto