The Nokia E90 at the Edinburgh Fringe

Just read the article on "The Reg".

I think you are being a little harsh. He does make some fair points. He does not emphesis enough how fantastic the hardware really is. Or that "Hopefully" a significant proportion of the major failings/losses due to the S60 switch can be addressed through 3rd party apps.

But the reality is, that from a software point of view many dedicated Communicator enthusiasts do feel disappointed.

I have no idea if the comments regarding "devlopment would have been far easier than Nokia Marketing spin" claim is true, but I too am "potentially" disappointed with the E90 software (not got one yet). Just that life is a compromise and this may be my best compromise option.

Personally, I reckon Nokia will probably be planning to reintroduce all that functionality into the S60 core (or get Symbian to). But that takes time and the E90 is a bit of a stopgap product.

A very powerful stopgap product mind you and one that even with flaws still looks very tasty 😊

Just such a shame we could not have our cake and eat it.

Oh and I do think you should link to the article. Sometimes it takes a little pain for people to take notice. I reckon you go too easy on the manufacturers sometimes Steve.

With any luck, the right people at Nokia will see the critical comments in the article and make some substantial changes through firmware upgrades. Not miracles, just lots of good tweaks that make the product much easier/quicker to use. Some real user testing and tweaks based on feedback. On this model please, not the E90i 😊

e.g.

Lots of consistant shortcuts.

Improvements to calander, contacts, messaging etc.

Add "spoofing" to browser so it can pretend to be IE etc. And copy paste.

Tab switching between panes

And a whole lot more no doubt that would not require a fundamental rewrite of any of the software. Just a real effort to address some of the shortfalls.

In the meantime, I'm going to take just one more look at the WM upcoming products to see if they can come up with something that looks as appealing as the E90.

Zuber

Fact is, Andrew is right. Just about everything he wrote in the article is spot on and it should be required reading for management at Nokia.

He said it and it bears repeating that the stupid self-partitioning Nokia inflicted upon it's smartphone division with the creation of the E and N series divisions gave us 3 years of phones which excelled at nothing. Yes yes, the N80 and N95 were flashy and could do everything you want, but they're horribly overpriced and they have horrible battery life. Meanwhile, the E series division has done... what exactly? The E61/2 is probably the only 'success' there, and even that's marginal when you compare it to the runaway success of the Q and the Blackjack. The E90 is just the latest flub to come from a company which seems intent on throwing away as much of it's past success as possible.

Once upon a time Nokia made great business and consumer phones. Is there any chance they can do this again?

Bueller?

I must admit that, when I read the Reg article, it certainly struck a chord. Okay, the guy has clearly gone out of his way to find blog postings that support HIS point of view but that's pretty standard practice. I don't think anything he says is factually in-accurate and I agree with a fair portion of it.

The E Series devices were, I believed, designed to be reliable and functional. That, to me, meant that, whilst they may not have all the bells and whistles of the latest N-Series devices, what they had would work all the time and in the way an average user would find fairly intuitive. Most reviews and postings I've read suggest that, whilst the E90 isn't a million miles off, if misses in a few too many areas for, what most would regard as a mature product.

Okay, us geeks may understand that it's actually a first attempt to do this sort of thing with the Series 60 UI, but your average joe looking for an enterprise-class device and who has used the previous communicators doesn't give a damn. It's not as if Nokia are selling it at a discount because it's a 1st gen. device with a few niggles.

I suspect the E91 (or whatever) will be great, but just because someone believes Nokia have got a bit of a cheek charging many hundreds of pounds for a device with quite a few niggles doesn't mean they deserve to be dismissed out of hand.

And it does seem, from the tone of his first articel, that Ewan shares some of the same concerns, although he expresses them in a rather more balanced manner 😉

For 650 quid it needs to be damn near perfect, not a lab experiment.
Even Steve L has been lukewarm about it in reviews and comments (inlcuding expressing a preference for the E61i at one point), and it's just not a lukewarm price point.

Can I just put this in perspective? I know Orlowski did a very very brief disclaimer but it wasn't really clear enough: very very few people actually buy phones that cost more than 200 euros. The average phone sale price is something like 100 euros.

You shouldn't judge a company based on how much people like their hyper-expensive 900 euro models, it would be like judging a supermarket's future success based on how much wine experts like their champagne.

Yes, in our own little world on here these models that cost 500 to 900 euros might seem all-important, but they could disappear overnight and it would make very little difference to the phone world as a whole.

The only way that smartphones become influential is when they're available in cheap models within reach of ordinary people, not when they're expensive flakey models bought within weeks of their release by technology fans. Ordinary people just don't spend 900 euros on a phone, or even a computer. You could buy a brand new Vista-compatible PC for half of that.

I've never been a fan of buying something new or cutting edge because it usually costs too much and has bugs in it, it's always been that way and always will be. If you want lower prices and reliability, buy technologies that are mature, don't buy semi-experimental first-generation models that are doing lots of new things. Doing lots of new things at once is very overrated, that's why god invented test pilots.

"He said it and it bears repeating that the stupid self-partitioning Nokia inflicted upon it's smartphone division with the creation of the E and N series divisions gave us 3 years of phones which excelled at nothing. Yes yes, the N80 and N95 were flashy and could do everything you want, but they're horribly overpriced and they have horrible battery life."

If you think the N95 is overpriced, why don't you buy one of the numbered S60 models instead?

The 6120 has launched for under £200 sim-free including VAT, less than half the price of the N95, but has almost all of the computing functions of the N95 including 3.5G HSDPA and a 369mhz processor. It also has a more refined version of FP1, and (unlike the N95, which did crash a lot) the 6120 is very stable and didn't crash at all when I tested it over a couple of weeks.

The only reason the N95 costs a lot is the extra hardware: the 5mp camera, the built-in GPS, the 3D graphics/TV Out chip etc. If all you want is computing power, it's far better to get a lower end S60 because they are just as good as high end models when it comes to running S60 applications.

"Once upon a time Nokia made great business and consumer phones. Is there any chance they can do this again? "

As I said above, and sorry to keep banging on about this, but if you want a really good, stable and low-priced S60 then you really ought to look at the numbered models. They don't get advertised as much, but look at the specs and try them out in real life, and you will find they're just as good smartphones as Nseries/Eseries models.

If the 6290 or 6120 or 6110 had carried Nseries or Eseries model numbers, people would have been falling over themselves to get one, but for some reason many smartphone fans tend to be snobbish and won't even look at a numbered S60. It's a pretty stupid attitude, and it's their loss.

"Okay, the guy has clearly gone out of his way to find blog postings that support HIS point of view but that's pretty standard practice."

It's standard practice for lazy journalists who can't be bothered to write balanced articles. Quite how that section of the article passes as journalism is unbelievable, you could find "it's crap" quotes about anything if you scour the web hard enough.

"The E90 is just the latest flub to come from a company which seems intent on throwing away as much of it's past success as possible."

In America maybe, but Nokia is doing very well everywhere else. Perhaps nowhere else counts though?

Krisse: You are of course right but apparently the problem is not with the price but with the phone you get for it. I have no problem paying for something that is worth the extra bucks but if I pay for something I want to use it now and not in a year when it finally starts working as it should have BEFORE the half a dozen firmware updates...

krisse wrote:
As I said above, and sorry to keep banging on about this, but if you want a really good, stable and low-priced S60 then you really ought to look at the numbered models. They don't get advertised as much, but look at the specs and try them out in real life, and you will find they're just as good smartphones as Nseries/Eseries models.

Right, if I'm looking at the numbered models then what's the point of the N and E series devices?

I get that the N95 is chock full of hardware and stuff, but what's the market? Is the market for the N95 as large as the market for a properly done low end N series device, or even a numbered model?

I think we both know the answer is no.

And herein lies the point... why not just do *one* uber N series device and produce *better* low/mid range devices? Did we need an N80 and N90/95/9x? Why not just combine the two and be done with it? Will the N80 and 9x'es sell as many units as the lowly E50 with it's lovely unreadable small fonts? Again, we know the answer is no.

And the E90... sigh. I don't know what Nokia is smoking, but this is so far disconnected from the old Communicator userbase that they most be hitting the old crack pipe. Who wants GPS and 2(!) cameras in a business device? What traveling business-person is going to mount their phone on the dash of their rental to use the GPS when most rentals include GPS these days anyhow. What businessman (or woman) is going to want to leave their phone outside when they realize that phones are restricted in a lot of places of work.

And hell, that's just the hardware. Don't even talk about the software, which just isn't up to the level of the old S80 software.

It leaves me wondering if Nokia actually talked to anyone who used a communicator before producing the E90. And again, we probably can guess that the answer would be "not really".

Its not based on the series 80 therefore you can't compare it. If you don't like it then don't bother with it and go for a different phone or stick to your communicator you have if your that dedicated. The E90 is good in its own right and it's definately a possible addition to my list of phones.

E90 is one of many to come. The next one will almost certainly be even better. Would not e.g. be surprised if a small, "camera free" one came out, to follow the most successful communicator to date (the 9300).

E65 sold a million phones last quarter. Not bad. So E series has done something. But I agree the identity of E series in terms of the handsets is a little weak.

N95 sold 1.5m last quarter. Not bad. In fact, very impressive. And just wait when they put the by now pretty good 5MP cam into a truly mass market N Series phone, i.e. the N82...

Oh, the global market share went up to 38%. Not bad.

Sure, their performance in the US sucks. But perhaps there is hope in that regard as well.

Someone was looking for a Windows Mobile alternative to the E90. Well, it's called the I-mate Ultimate 7150, and you can get the vital stats here:
www dot mypocketpcmobile dot com/imateUltimate7150/tabid/226/Default.aspx
(sorry for the crappy address, but this site won't let me post links)

I'm hoping it turns out to be stable, unlike so many Windows devices.

"I'm hoping it turns out to be stable, unlike so many Windows devices"

Exactly, that is why I'm looking at an E90. Got fedup with my MDA Pro reliability and fiddlyness of trying to use it as a phone.

Problem is, it was another great bit of hardware. That is why I'm a little hesitant on the E90 great hardware shame about...

Seen the IMate stuff, but there seams to be alot of negatives around IMate at the moment. Also, why is it so difficult to do the following on a WM device :

put a decent camera in
add gps
have 16mill colour display
640 x 480 (or 800 x 480 G900)

All at the same time ???

Zuber

The big conclusion for me, is very hard to do a good for all device. 9300i is better for a PC like use, but weak on Media use. An N80 / N95 are overall good phones, but very weak like PC�s. Maybe, E90 need more time, with E91, 92... and all work like an 9300i, but until then, an PC Portable (or UMPC) is the way to do work!

Positive views are boring!

A few bits of information:

- The N95 is FREE in the UK on many networks with a contract
- The E90 is not UKP650 you can buy it for UKP540 from Komplett! Please do your research, just a google away! This price will reduce in a month, as it did for the N95, which is actually less than UKP450 SIM free.

I like my 9500. BUT the web browser was slow, when I used it I did not have an MS ActiveSync app from Nokia for it, the camera was very poor and the front keys and controls were very poor. Now for some strange reason I really like the E90 - I love the fact that I can quickly check the mobile BBC site for news, read a few emails and check appointments without opening the clamshell. I have done so many business tasks in the last 2 weeks that I normally use two devices for before (SE P990 and Clie Palm PDA). And shock horror people at work really like my E90 and my colleagues are waiting for O2 availability. My colleagues really liked the screen contrast (external screen) and wide inner screen. There are so many people saying the E90 is a poor device here and at My-symbian but reviews have been available for MONTHS! Hopefully no one will buy any E90s now and then the price will drop and I can buy a spare for UKP300 😊 😊

I was a long time user of the 9500, and bought my E90 about 3 weeks ago. So far I am very happy with it compared to the 9500. (I also bought an N95 for my wife so have plenty of experience with that lately)

A couple of small problems:
- rear of case is a little loose & squeaks.
- can't find contact through company name. I'd like that fixed!
- No docking station & no likelihood of getting one as mini-USB connector doesn't lend itself to easy docking.

Apart from that it's great & will be even better once I get a decent data contract.

GPS in a business phone - for sure! Not all of us hire cars so often, and in most of the world hire cars don't have GPS built in. I've been to Russia & Australia in the last 6 months & neither had GPS. I have found GPS very useful for years & it's even better now that I don't have to carry a bulky Garmin 276C with me everywhere I go.

Camera - a must for me for my work & the old 9500 camera was useless so I had to carry around a digital point-and-shoot.

Now I have gone from 3 devices on business trips to 1.

I think for most people from a communicator background the main issue is that they are just pissed off that Nokia did not make a much bigger effort to ensure that the software was updated to "really" use the E90 Hardware (big screen and keyboard).

Doing this would have put the device on par with the older units on many levels while at the same time still keep all the genuine plus points.

Not being able to :
search contacts by company
view html in email
copy and paste in web etc.
handle large numbers of sms and email at a reasonable speed
have to scroll through lots of menus

All seam like genuine complaints to me and none look like they would be impossible to resolve if Nokia wanted to...

Zuber

The main reason why I didn't link to Andrew O's piece was that he was writing with such bias and vitriol. For example, where he refers to Nokia 'pampering' a fanboy, he's talking about Stefan Constantinescu, who moved from Texas to Finland at his own (great) expense because he wanted to try the Finnish lifestyle and be close to Nokia, and who asked nicely for a tour and got one. If someone's got the guts to move countries then he deserved listening to/attention.

And yes, Andrew linked to just the critical posts and ignored those where people (including long-time Communicator user and My-Symbian owner Michal Jerz) said they were happy.

As Krisse said, it was sloppy, shock journalism. And I've already rebutted Andrew's general points about the E90's interface here: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/In_defense_of_the_Cargo_Cult_Communicator.php

Of note also is that fact that Quickoffice 4.5 on the E90 has most of the old Series 80 office keyboard shortcuts. I agree 4.5 should be made a free upgrade for E90 owners, but that's a separate licensing issue.

Steve Litchfield

Steve, while I haven't used an E90 myself, your rebuttal sounds like an attempt to defend the indefensible. For example, you seem to be saying:

- 'The S60 menus are fine for the E90, because S60 has less functionality than S80 used by the older Communicators'. Isn't reducing functionality an even worse crime for what's supposed to be a Communicator?!?

- 'The lack of menu shortcuts is OK, because no one could ever remember them all'. But no one would try to remember them all - just the ones that they found useful! And everyone finds different menu options useful, which is why older Communicators gave a shortcut to every menu item.

Personally, I wouldn't object to S60 if they had properly enhanced it for the E90. e.g. a standard way to present menu shortcuts, a wider & more consistent set of shortcuts, better PIM functionality (especially multiple to-do lists), faster switching between cover screen & internal screen, smaller font sizes or ideally a choice of "small" & "large" font sizes (perhaps a system wide preference), and so on.

@ Chris Handley, perhaps you should get an E90 for evaluation. The E90 is bloody fast and the switching is very quick between external and internal screen. The 3.5g download is really something you need to see/experience as well as the quality of the video recording.

No, Chris, you've misinterpreted what I was saying. S60 menus are less extensive than S80 menus because the options are more context-sensitive. Most S80 menus contain all options, with many greyed out etc. S60 presents just the ones that are appropriate.

I *do* agree that, overall, the Series 80 apps had more functions. I just don't believe the gap is as wide as the E90 doom and gloom merchants make out.

But yes, multiple to-do lists, synced to Outlook Tasks categories would be nice. 8-)

As a long time Communicator user; a huge fan of the line as well as the excellent Series 80 user interface, I have to say I agree with Andrew and Ewan on most of the points made. I would usually be one of the first to acquire an E90 because, like I mentioned, I am a huge fan of the series and the hardware is top drawer, but ever since I first heard the announcement and Nokia's choice to use S60, I've kept my distance. I know S60 very well, and I completely agree that it has no place whatsoever on a Communicator, unless they make some substantial changes to the GUI and built-in apps.

Frankly, I would LOVE to see a keyboard optimized version of Linux (as used in their internet tablets) on a future Communicator. That would certainly get my attention. :icon14:

On a bit of a tangent, but please could anyone help with these two questions:

1 - is it possible to synchronise the pop3 emails on my pc with the e90 so that I have a copy of my outlook emails on my e90?

2 - I have a sheet/doc/pdf... and I want it to be placed on the root desk screen. How do I do it?

As a week old e90 user there's only one huge gripe at the moment and that's the camera button. It really is dreadful. Rubbish! Apart from that it is all I ever wanted and more. GPS works a dream, actual photos and video are great, plays music well, excellent calendar and contacts etc. The first person to make software which allows you to use one of the phone's buttons to take photos will make a fortune!

Answers to the two questions above would be much appreciated.

Andrew O is a moron. Enough said. As for the idiot in the Register article who laments that the new Communicator is not an adequate planning tool, get your head out of your arse, would you please? I haven't seen this kind of true connectivity and communicability in any previous Communicator. You're still complaining about fax? Buy a portable fax machine. No, really. Do it. It would be exactly as practical as your useless whining.

I'm waiting for part 2 of Ewan's musings on the E90, not too impressed with what he's had to say so far.

I'm also wanting to get my POP3 emails from my laptop to my E90. You can't sync them through PC Suite and I've read that you have to download them from your server. It seems crazy that doing (what I would think) is the most basic of tasks - having access to downloaded emails isn't possible in such an expensive cell phone!!! Even when I set up it up to download them from the server it always asks for what WLAN I want to use. What if you don't have access to a wireless network?? I want to be able connect my phone to my laptop (which has LAN internet connection but not WLAN) and download them that way. Is this possible?? Is a WLAN the only way you can connect?? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

On the Second Question above Nokia's FAQ states:

"No. E-mails cannot be synchronised using PC Suite. To get e-mails into your device you can use e.g. the native e-mail in your device supporting POP3, IMAP4 and SMTP or use add-on e-mail solutions."

I don't know how to answer your first question. Maybe someone else can help?