Although the issue of fonts never bothered me, it's sure bothering Ewan. In the second part of his 'E90 out and about at the Fringe' feature, he's found that he prefers to set up application displays to work on the external QVGA screen and then worry about the internal one later.
Read on in the full article.
Ewan, these problems sound as if they result from your previous experience with the 9300. I suspect an E90 newbie would never notice them.
Exactly, and as this is a multiple part series, I'm sure you'll see that come out. BUt you can;t escape that this was marketted as a New Communicator.
The keyboard layout does seem a bit odd. If they swapped the d-pad round with the return and backspace keys, it would make a lot more sense.
On almost every keyboard ever made (including the Nokia bluetooth keyboard) the delete key is in the top right hand corner, return key under it and some sort of arrow keys in the bottom right. Seems strange to abandon that convention.
"I just dont think that S60 is up to the job of driving a wide screen with a full qwerty keyboard ... Let’s take writing a document using the Quickoffice software ... And again, the S60 UI is trying to help me. While the auto-shifting of characters after a full stop is useful with keypad input, it’s just annoying on the full keyboard"
Are you sure you mean S60? It sounds like the third party developers behind Quickoffice just haven't yet adapted their application properly to the E90 hardware, which isn't necessarily anything to do with the UI itself.
What's the point in purchasing the E90 if not for the inside part?
If you only use the outside I would suggest one of the many other phones on the marked that are smaller.
I'm more and more interested (and more and more cautious?) in experiencing this device for myself. I haven't had a Communicator before, from 'dummy phones' I moved to s60 and then straight to s60 3rd ed with the E70. I was hoping that s60's 176x208 standard screen is going to swift to 352*416 as the new standard (seemed to make sense with the same screen ratio but 4 times the detail) but not much after getting to phone (and my hopes high) QVGA became the standard receiving stronger software (mainly java games though, but still) support.
it will be interesting to see how many developers will opt for using only the external screen of the E90 and just put a 'Please close the phone' message on the internal screen or use the top left 240*320 pixels only if you try to use the same software on the wide screen.
Ewan,
My experience of the E90 seems to be the opposite of yours. I have owned Psion, Palm, Windows CE, Windows Mobile and Sharp Zaurus devices. But I can honestly say that the E90 is the best device that I have owned. You seem to be spitting the dummy out about minor points that took me about 3 seconds to live with and forgetting the amazing browsing experience and quickoffice document handling. Not to mention the great camera and GPS etc etc. I find the E90 quick, stable, well engineered and great battery life. The only real beef I have is email, but for that I use Profimail. It seems to me the S60 email client is well overdue an overhaul before these minor points, it doesn't handle IMAP properly.
--I was hoping that s60's 176x208 standard screen is going to swift to 352*416 as the new standard (seemed to make sense with the same screen ratio but 4 times the detail) but not much after getting to phone (and my hopes high) QVGA became the standard receiving stronger software (mainly java games though, but still) support.--
As I understand it, moving to QVGA was because of the general direction the whole electronics industry was taking. Nowadays, far more devices use QVGA displays than 352*416, so QVGA displays are much cheaper and higher quality. Nokia isn't the only manufacturer in the world, and everyone else is using QVGA, so they might have felt they had to tag along.
It might also be intended to help developers: if you've done an application for non-S60 QVGA devices, it's easier to port to an S60 device if that's QVGA too.
I think the S60.com blog once had a posting saying that S60 3rd can be used with any resolution, but they now officially encourage manufacturers to use VGA-based resolutions like QVGA, HVGA or VGA. The manufacturers can do what they like though, as shown by the non-VGA resolutions in the 5500 and E90.
I had the opportunity to play around with the E90 recently. I must say I 100% agree with Ewan.
Not that the 9300i keyboard is perfect at all. The comma and full stop buttons are in the wrong place, the Menu button should intuitively be near the root of the Menu (the 5mx had it to the left with an additional option to use a silkscreen button immediately at the root of the Menu), a calculator cannot possibly be anything near useful if the +-×and ÷ are anything else accessible by single key-press, the CAPS button is too near the 'A' button etc etc etc...
At least the 9300i is bearable. My about 40 minutes trying various things with the E90 made me conclude that this is an excellent looking device with heaps of attractive features.
But the attempt to stretch S60 into realms it was never designed for shows through in numerous plain annoying ways.
"But the attempt to stretch S60 into realms it was never designed for shows through in numerous plain annoying ways."
I hear people say this a lot about the E90, but then what they actually complain about is usually nothing to do with S60.
Things like the keyboard design are hardware issues, and things like the lack of fax support or auto-shift in Quickoffice are application issues. Neither of these is a User Interface issue, and S60 is just a user interface.
We shouldn't confuse a hardware design department with a UI design department. S60 provides a platform, but it doesn't decide how manufacturers choose to build on that platform. S60 don't decide which apps are bundled, and they don't decide how the hardware is laid out either.
I'm not defending the E90, I'm just saying if you're going to blame someone it's important to make sure it's the right people you're blaming. Otherwise, none of these problems will ever be solved.
krisse wrote:"But the attempt to stretch S60 into realms it was never designed for shows through in numerous plain annoying ways."I hear people say this a lot about the E90, but then what they actually complain about is usually nothing to do with S60.
Things like the keyboard design are hardware issues, and things like the lack of fax support or auto-shift in Quickoffice are application issues. Neither of these is a User Interface issue, and S60 is just a user interface.
But the User Interface does impose constraints on the hardware. Take the dedicated menu key for example. Because S60 is designed as having a single menu hanging of the options key, it doesn't make much sense to add a special menu key to the querty keyboard. If there was a special menu key, it would make sense to use the Options button for a command. Just as if the E90 would have two command buttons, instead of 4 command buttons as on the 9500/9300 and older Communicators.
This is also not the way a UI is designed. People take a certain kind of hardware in mind (lets say a T9 keyboard, some dedicated hardware buttons and a small screen) and come up with a UI that's much like S60 (or UIQ!). Such UI's are optimised for this particular kind of hardware.
With different hardware (a full querty keyboard and a big screen) you get a different UI, that's optimised for that particular kind of hardware. Examples are the old Psion UI and the Communicator/S80 UI, or all the desktop computer UI's.
Retrofitting a UI on hardware it wasn't designed for brings to light the optimisation problems. The move from S80 to S60 for the communicator is a very good example here, because both UI's are based on the Uikon UI framework. For example:
1) As S60 doesn't support shortcuts, the shortcuts field in the menu item data structure has been shortened to a single character. This saves lots of memory on normal S60 hardware, but doesn't make sense when you have a full querty keyboard.
2) S60 soft keys (Options/Back/Exit etc) are using the same Uikon mechanism as the S80 command buttons. So one can think of the Options button as a popup menu hanging of the topmost button of a Communicator. Using a command button for the menu saves a dedicated menu key, and using softkeys as Uikon command buttons saves programming, but when the hardware could easily support a menu key, having the same menu from a command button doesn't make good use of that key. So the menu key is dropped.
3) With S60 moving towards using 3 softkeys in S60 FP2, you get nearer to the situation on the 7710, which has three command buttons, and a dedicated menu key. Imagine a E90-like device with three hardware softkeys next to the internal screen. That's almost a 7710.
4) Zooming. Not much of a use on a small screen, but can be very convenient on a bigger screen. S60 never had zooming (UIQ, which is targetted at the same screen sizes as S60 has three defined zoomlevels), S80 always had dedicated zoom keys.
Sander van der Wal
www.mBrainSoftware.com
The 'auto shift' isn't native to quickoffice, it is in all s60 phones, in messaging for example.
If you type a . (full stop) s60 will automatically 'auto shift' to make the next letter uppercase.
As Evan says, fine on a keypad, can be a pain in the arse on a full keyboard.
That seems to be stretching the point a little bit Krisse.
Okay, the hardware is down to Nokia, I'll give you that. But to suggest there is no link between the UI and the software is rather over-simplifying things. For a start, the standards laid out in the design guide for the UI tell the software developers how things should work, how they should look etc. It's the UI that determines where the menu's are, how they work, the file structure etc. S60 has a massive impact on the design and interface of the software written for it.
And, in any case, if a software feature works well with all the other S60 devices, but not the E90, then doesn't that illustrate Ewan's point perfectly? To resolve that problem would require the software developers to either produce a E90 specific version of their software, or include code in the software to detect that it's running on an E90 and then behave differently. Which is precisely the opposite of what S60 sets out to do - i.e. one platform that allows software writers to produce one product that works the same on all S60 compliant hardware.
If you have to write an E90 version of your software then you take away the main benefit of having one UI and you'r back with the argument that they should have stuck with the old OS.
After two weeks of using the e90 (and I consider my-self a power user), I can agree with NickAnstee.
The device is great, although I admitt there are some drawbacks, but - given all the benefits thereof - one can easily live with them...
Borys
krisse wrote:Things like the keyboard design are hardware issues. Neither of these is a User Interface issue, and S60 is just a user interface.
We shouldn't confuse a hardware design department with a UI design department.
Furthermore, with regards to applications, a certain version of a certain UI will by default have a certain number of applications which are optimised and tested for this UI. Hence we cannot disentangle applications from the UI either, which in turn cannot be disentangled from the hardware. If one has to do a number of keypresses to adjust fonts (as per Ewan's review) everytime one changes from the outer screen to the inner screen, this is a clear example of annoying sideeffects of stretching S60 into realms it wasn't designed for.
Maybe these will be fixed one day, in either new firmware versions or hardware versions or both.
The navigator buttons are where they are because you've got a better grip on the device while navigating...the space key is indeed very bad...tactile feedback as a hole is bad...i find it better on a e61...i know i can use sounds for every keypress but i find that very frustrating
sorry for my english
I use the out side screen for quick access to information with one hand.
I open the clamshell to perform input tasks and read long documents/information items, where I have small desk.
When no desk I open the screen to 180 degrees and use the E90 as a BB!
So how many phones do you know that can be configured into THREE form factors?
And as an overall package the E90 is great!
I agree 100% with Jah.
I'm sure you could find something to crib about in every phone ever made.
How about focusing on what it can do, rather than what you think it can't?
I think Ewan was the wrong person for this kind of live test review scenario. Sure he likes to challenge the norm, but thats not necessary here. We'd like to see the E90 out and about in Edinburgh, doing all the cool things it is capable of, please.
Still sounds to me like a few well thought out tweaks to the interface could really make a hugh difference to the speed/flexability of the device.
The kind of things that could (if Nokia choose to and put the resources in) be done in a firmware update. Not saying the device is not good, but with some carefully selected tweaks, it could be leave everyone else at the start line.
e.g.
1. There clearly seams to be a conflict going on between what the outer screen wants and what the inner screen want.
The built in software clearly does know which mode it is in (outer/inner screen). So there really do need to be 2 sets of settings for a range of options like font/size themes, wallpapers, shortcuts.
Maybe non E90 aware apps would not be able to switch settings between screen changes. But they should still pick up the correct ones on starting. Built in/aware ones would change on the fly.
2. Some of the apps don't make the best use of the internal screen. Look like fair attempts on a short deadline, but not a properly polished thought out application. e.g.
Simple Tab between panels in messaging etc. on internal screen. Straight from old communicators. Does not sound very hard.
Better use of screen space in calendar.
Option of smaller fonts all round (again link with inner/outer screen)
3. Some of the applications don't seam to deal with large vols. of data too well and need some performance tweaks. I've worked with apps that use databases. When things look slow for no apparent reason, it almost always means it could be faster if someone made a real effort and spotted and dealt the bottle necks.
So again tweaks to searches, messaging etc.
4. Lots of shortcuts please.
5. Much more widely available copy & paste.
One thing putting me off is the thought of not being able to copy a phone number from a web page and paste it into my phone app to make a call. Still can't get over this. Come on guys!!!
6. Open new window/open link in new window option in Browser please. We have 80MB free, the E90 can handle it.
7. Not entirely clear on this one, but I gather there are problems with having to manually change access points all the time. Needs to be tweaked.
8. AGPS and whatever other tweaks for GPS. I'm sure this one is already on route...
That would be a good start 😊
Someone please forward to Nokia product enhancement.
Just imagine the press turn around. Suddenly all those complaining are left dead in the tracks and start raving well done Nokia.
Those that are already happy hit a new high and start priasing all over again.
Then we get the compare with iPhone wave come in all over again, but now we get the E90 is so much easier to use now, yes it adds a little complexity but you get so much more... 😊
Zuber
Sander said:
"But the User Interface does impose constraints on the hardware. "
Totally agree.
As an ex-UI designer, I completely understand what Sander means.
The S60 was originally conceived as a multitap with all its limitations....
What it can do and cannot do are all taken into account.
By limitations I mean there is only so much that one wants to do with multitap - after that it gets tedious.
With the Communicator one would expect userability between of the E60 and a 10" laptop. From a human machine interface point - this is a huge difference from the original design specs of the s60.
Ironically while Microsft can be accused of cramming too much for a handheld man-machine interface, Nokia is trying too hard to extract the s60's capabilites.
Both fail for not taking man-machine uses into consideration.
E90 because it stretches the original s60 blueprint is too far is too compromised and fails miserably as a "Communicator".
Autoshifting after a full stop.
Have to agree - I always write text messages "properly" using the keyboard on my E70 and the autoshift is infuriating.
If the UI knows to turn the display round (on the E70) it is only a minor step to make it turn off the various keypad "advantages" when the device is opened.
Havign said that, the E90 looks like the serious upgrade path from an E70 - I'll give it a couple of months then I'll be knocking on Vodafone's door.
It's a long time since I've used S60, but I seem to recall it being eminently possible to turn auto shift off...
I would love to be able to turn auto-shift off on the E61...if there is a way, please share it!
Hey not meaning to troll, start a flamewar or be like a fanboy, but when I read here about all the complaints about S60 software on the E90, I look at my P990i which, having it's own share of problems, supports full copy-and-paste (even seeming to remember copied phone numbers after reboot), supports opening a link in new tab in the webbrowser, supports clicking on a phone# practically anywhere to dial that number, it has auto-capitalization after fullstop which can be turned on-off from any text edit control (and the phone remembers your settings), the UI deals with changing screen-sizes etc -- practically all things that people here are complaining about, are hardly issues for me!
Now the P990i has it's own set of problems of course, such as limited RAM, camera with only 2mp and poor video-recording, a form-factor and keyboard that not all will like, and it was plagued with stability problems with any firmware older than R5. And it's successor, the P1i, still doesn't have a GPS, HSDPA, or proper video recording (it increases RAM and has a better stills-camera).
There's no ideal phone, but I feel that the UIQ3 platform is severly under-rated and needs more phones to come out for it, more apps for it, etc -- it seems to have a number of real advantages over S60 and WinMobile.
Cheers,
--Tim van der Leeuw
"but I feel that the UIQ3 platform is severly under-rated and needs more phones to come out for it"
I did look at it briefly. But for me, screen real estate is a really big factor (heavy web user). The E90 actually has less than VGA and even less that the Toshiba G900, but it still exceeds a sort of worth having or not threshold that I have in my head because of the 800 wide screen.
Also, can you fully use UIQ3 without a stylus. I loose styluses and am getting fedup always looking for them...
Finally, not enough apps...
WM mostly fails on ease of "quick" use particularly as a phone, but would still be a viable option because of the + points of some of the devices. UIQ3 does not enough + points for me to make up for "my" preferences.
Horses for courses as they say.
Zuber
I seem to recall pressing the hash scrolled through text entry modes; upper case, lower case, sentence case, T9 on and off. However, as I said above, I've been using Series 80 for the last few years, so my recollection may either be flawed or inapplicable to the latest editions of S60.